The Rise Of Joe Flacco

[Bullrush]

Just came across this article by KC Joyner, "The Football Scientist". You can read the entire article right here: [url="http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/09/lab-results-the-rise-of-joe-flacco"]http://fifthdown.blo...e-of-joe-flacco[/url]

[quote]The first-year quarterback who drew the most attention last season was the rookie of the year award winner Matt Ryan. He was rightfully granted that honor because of how well he played from Day 1, but the most improved rookie by season's end in 2008 had to be Baltimore's Joe Flacco. I say this because of Flacco's improvement in the second half of the year in two of the most important quarterback metrics: bad decision percentage and vertical productivity.
...
To put this another way, Matt Ryan might have won Round 1 in the battle of the great young quarterbacks, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Flacco take a few rounds in the coming years.[/quote]

While i agree that Flacco was the far superior QB of the two from week 7-17, we all know that as far as having weapons around him Flacco barely had something to work with, especially when he came into his own in the middle of the season. Mason played with one arm. Williams was gone by that point. Our 3rd receiver (Smith) had 0 catches the entire season. Heap was blocking mostly. Rice was banged up for the most part. How is a QB supposed to put up 400 yard passing games under these circumstances? It's impossible. How is it fair to compare him to a QB who plays weak defenses in the NFC and has two big stud receivers in the starting lineup? I don't get it.

We'll see this upcoming season. Hopefully we can add a weapon like Marshall, then get Williams, Mason and Rice back healthy. Marcus Smith at #4 along with LJ Smith as a vertical threat. That's when you can compare him to Ryan. Right now it doesn't work. It's like having two track stars race each other while one guy is wearing Nike's and the other one's wearing some flip flops or those big russian boots.

And yet he still outproduced and outperformed Ryan in the 2nd half of the season.

[jfc13]

I agree with what you are saying, but, really, the reasons you cite that make the comparisons between Flacco and Ryan not fair are differences that make every comparison between players on different teams not fair: the other players on their own team that affects their play and the quality of the teams they play against.

It would be nice if everyone making comparisons would break all that down, but most readers just want the bottom line, so we don't see that happen often [if at all].

The article you quoted was quite complimentary towards Flacco, so that's a plus in my book!

[#1 D]

man, i can't wait to see how flacco will be able to progress with less protection needed on the O-line with Oher and Birk as upgrades, as well as more possible targets to throw to. I mean he's used to the shotgun formation with more receivers on the field. If everything goes along well, flacco should do great this upcoming season.

[lowrider]

[quote name='Bullrush' date='09 July 2009 - 07:46 AM' timestamp='1247140004' post='205697']
Just came across this article by KC Joyner, "The Football Scientist". You can read the entire article right here: [url="http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/09/lab-results-the-rise-of-joe-flacco"]http://fifthdown.blo...e-of-joe-flacco[/url]



While i agree that Flacco was the far superior QB of the two from week 7-17, we all know that as far as having weapons around him Flacco barely had something to work with, especially when he came into his own in the middle of the season. Mason played with one arm. Williams was gone by that point. Our 3rd receiver (Smith) had 0 catches the entire season. Heap was blocking mostly. Rice was banged up for the most part. How is a QB supposed to put up 400 yard passing games under these circumstances? It's impossible. How is it fair to compare him to a QB who plays weak defenses in the NFC and has two big stud receivers in the starting lineup? I don't get it.

We'll see this upcoming season. Hopefully we can add a weapon like Marshall, then get Williams, Mason and Rice back healthy. Marcus Smith at #4 along with LJ Smith as a vertical threat. That's when you can compare him to Ryan. Right now it doesn't work. It's like having two track stars race each other while one guy is wearing Nike's and the other one's wearing some flip flops or those big russian boots.

And yet he still outproduced and outperformed Ryan in the 2nd half of the season.
[/quote]
The only thing i disagree with is I think Ryan had more yards than Flacco the second half of the year, so i don't know if you can say he outperformed Ryan exactly (even though Flacco's touchdown-interception ratio was better than Ryans, so maybe you can say Flacco outperformed Ryan). But other than that great article and good points. I looked up the second half stats of Flacco and Ryan earlier and I was really surprised. It's cool that people are starting to notice Flacco more and consider him a threat. I'm hoping williams and Clayton perform and stay healthy this year but all I can really do is hope. We will see

[ravensfan160]

Many of us have been saying these same things for awhile now. Its nice to see someone finally breaking it down like this so people can see the truth. Time will tell though. By this time next year I think Joe will have proved himself to everyone as the better QB and the initial hype of Ryan(although warranted) will begin to wear off as they see Joe do more with less.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Bullrush' date='09 July 2009 - 07:46 AM' timestamp='1247140004' post='205697']
Just came across this article by KC Joyner, "The Football Scientist". You can read the entire article right here: [url="http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/09/lab-results-the-rise-of-joe-flacco"]http://fifthdown.blo...e-of-joe-flacco[/url]



While i agree that Flacco was the far superior QB of the two from week 7-17, we all know that as far as having weapons around him Flacco barely had something to work with, especially when he came into his own in the middle of the season. Mason played with one arm. Williams was gone by that point. Our 3rd receiver (Smith) had 0 catches the entire season. Heap was blocking mostly. Rice was banged up for the most part. How is a QB supposed to put up 400 yard passing games under these circumstances? It's impossible. How is it fair to compare him to a QB who plays weak defenses in the NFC and has two big stud receivers in the starting lineup? I don't get it.

We'll see this upcoming season. Hopefully we can add a weapon like Marshall, then get Williams, Mason and Rice back healthy. Marcus Smith at #4 along with LJ Smith as a vertical threat. That's when you can compare him to Ryan. Right now it doesn't work. It's like having two track stars race each other while one guy is wearing Nike's and the other one's wearing some flip flops or those big russian boots.

And yet he still outproduced and outperformed Ryan in the 2nd half of the season.
[/quote]

As unfair as that comparison might be, thats just the way it is. Just like Manning and Brady. Tom Brady had to earn his spotlight, Peyton got his because of his father. Now don't get me wrong Peyton puts up some great regular season number. But imo oppinion Brady is clearly the better QB. When u can win more Super Bowls with less talent at WR, i think that seperates you. I remember hearing someone as Ray Lewis the question of who was the better QB Brady/Manning, and Ray simple said "who has the more championships"

Now i'm not saying that either Flacco or Ryan will amount to Brady and Manning, it's just an example of how that QB comparison can sometimes be jaded.

Flacco and Ryan will be always linked to each other. The real comparison between the two will start next year when they get to go head to head. I think one of the things that could seperate Flacco from Ryan is the level of competition in the AFC. Flacco will get to compete against QBs like Big Ben, Plamer, Brady, Manning, and Rivers. So he will have more of a chance to prove his worth against elite QBs. The Ravens winning playoff games will depend on Flacco outshining these elite QBs. So in doing so, imo Flacco will have more of a chance to prove he is elite.

Now with that same point it will make it easy for Ryan to make pro bowl in what is a weaker NFC. It will be interesting to see how Flacco does in year two with Cam, and how Ryan does with even more weapons then last year.

[Sizzle]

The fact that you have to make excuses suck as flacco didnt have weapons shows Ryan is better. Why can't you just wait till next year to prove that Joe is better. But wait Falcons got Gonzalez so that automatically give flacco and advantage even if he sucks. Secondly, whats wrong with our receivers? Clayton isnt that bad, look at Jenkins?

[darklight1216]

[quote name='Sizzle' date='09 July 2009 - 12:31 PM' timestamp='1247157112' post='205727']
The fact that you have to make excuses suck as flacco didnt have weapons shows Ryan is better. Why can't you just wait till next year to prove that Joe is better. But wait Falcons got Gonzalez so that automatically give flacco and advantage even if he sucks. Secondly, whats wrong with our receivers? Clayton isnt that bad, look at Jenkins?
[/quote]
All right fine, forget the weapons... who won two playoff games?

[MagicianCamille]

All the media talk and "awards" are just fluff. What matters is who's winning the most games, and taking their team the furthest.

The answer to both questions is Joe Flacco.

Awards are meaningless if you're a football fan, all that should matter is victories and championships.

[JEEPercreepermd]

[quote name='MagicianCamille' date='09 July 2009 - 02:38 PM' timestamp='1247164719' post='205750']
All the media talk and "awards" are just fluff. What matters is who's winning the most games, and taking their team the furthest.

The answer to both questions is Joe Flacco.

Awards are meaningless if you're a football fan, all that should matter is victories and championships.
[/quote]
THANK YOU!! It couldn't have been said any better than that! Flacco took the Ravens to the AFC championship game. I'd much rather see Flacco in the AFC championship game then the Pro Bowl

[Alexir]

I'm not saying whether Flacco is going to be amazing this year or not. I don't talk about sophmore players like that they are like "Rookie light" in a way that they are still young and they arent veterans, he needs to step up and take control of that offense before he gets my Pro bowl vote or vote for who is better between Ryan and Flacco.

[RoflDogs]

Currently in my mind, there is a major difference between the two...

Matt Ryan had AT LEAST 1 4th quarter comeback (against the bears if I remember correctly)

but Flacco does not......yet....

If Flacco can become John Elway-esque or even Ben Roethlisberger-esque in come backing than I don't care if he does not have tom brady like numbers personally.

[darklight1216]

[quote name='RoflDogs' date='09 July 2009 - 05:08 PM' timestamp='1247173697' post='205768']
Currently in my mind, there is a major difference between the two...

Matt Ryan had AT LEAST 1 4th quarter comeback (against the bears if I remember correctly)

but Flacco does not......yet....

If Flacco can become John Elway-esque or even Ben Roethlisberger-esque in come backing than [b]I don't care if he does not have tom brady like numbers personally.[/b]
[/quote]
Lol, you'd rather have him win fewer championships? Personally I'd rather have a quarterback that dominates from beginning to end, not a guy who still needs to learn how to play in all four quarters. *Cough* Worthlessberger *cough*

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='jfc13' date='09 July 2009 - 08:01 AM' timestamp='1247140906' post='205698']
It would be nice if everyone making comparisons would break all that down, but most readers just want the bottom line, so we don't see that happen often [if at all].
[/quote]I'M ON IT!

(As soon as I finish manually editing the rosters for UD's football team in NCAA Football 2010, anyway...lol)

[darklight1216]

[quote name='jfc13' date='09 July 2009 - 08:01 AM' timestamp='1247140906' post='205698']
It would be nice if everyone making comparisons would break all that down, but most readers just want the bottom line, so we don't see that happen often [if at all].

[/quote]
What specifically do you want broken down?

[Bullrush]

[quote name='RoflDogs' date='09 July 2009 - 10:08 PM' timestamp='1247173697' post='205768']
Currently in my mind, there is a major difference between the two...

Matt Ryan had AT LEAST 1 4th quarter comeback (against the bears if I remember correctly)

but Flacco does not......yet....

If Flacco can become John Elway-esque or even Ben Roethlisberger-esque in come backing than I don't care if he does not have tom brady like numbers personally.
[/quote]
What about the Browns game when we were down 20-27 going in to the 4th quarter? Flacco threw a TD pass to tie the game, changed the momentum of the game. Stover and Suggs sealed the win.

Besides, that Bears game wasn't really a 4th quarter comeback. The Falcons were already in the lead when Ryan set up a touchdown early in the 4th quarter. The Falcons then converted a 48yd FG at the end to beat the Bears. The Bears were actually the ones to try a comeback (Orton almost pulled it off).

You could point to the Titans playoff game if that's what you consider a 4th quarter comeback. We're tied in the 4th quarter and with less than a minute on the clock Stover converts the FG (13-10).

[jfc13]

[quote name='darklight1216' date='09 July 2009 - 05:40 PM' timestamp='1247175614' post='205773']
What specifically do you want broken down?
[/quote]
I don't know, but apparently theFranchise is going to do it! LOL.

And do it well, if his past posts are any indication.


I was making a general statement that when "analysts" compare two players, they generally use cut-and-dried stats that don't consider other influences, such as a QB without decent receivers would have lower numbers influenced by that or the heavier reliance on a running game. Or when saying Flacco must be better because he won 2 playoff games - we need to factor in the other players and coaching staff. Dilfer won a Super Bowl, does that mean he was the best QB that year?

I just was saying that an actual analytical approach should factor in outside influences and be explained in the results. However, there are so many factors, every article would be bogged down with them, so it's probably not practical.

However, I am certainly interested in what theFranchise comes up with!

[H8R]

It's all about the defense inwhich each QB faced, clearly Joe faced TOP TIER defenses while Ryan faced middle of the road defenses. I still think that Joe made more plays when it counted, is more mobile, stronger armed and has more physical tools. I feel Matt Ryans progression will be less significant due to his ceiling being lower then Flacco's.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Bullrush' date='09 July 2009 - 06:03 PM' timestamp='1247177028' post='205778']
What about the Browns game when we were down 20-27 going in to the 4th quarter? Flacco threw a TD pass to tie the game, changed the momentum of the game. Stover and Suggs sealed the win.

Besides, that Bears game wasn't really a 4th quarter comeback. The Falcons were already in the lead when Ryan set up a touchdown early in the 4th quarter. The Falcons then converted a 48yd FG at the end to beat the Bears. The Bears were actually the ones to try a comeback (Orton almost pulled it off).

You could point to the Titans playoff game if that's what you consider a 4th quarter comeback. We're tied in the 4th quarter and with less than a minute on the clock Stover converts the FG (13-10).
[/quote]

I think regaining the pluse of the team and delivering on a 3rd down and 12 pass, agianst the Steelers, on MNF in his first start on the road. Driving his offense down the field after the Steelers had gained momentum and sticking the ball in the endzone to tie the game up. That right there proved a lot to me. Even Mike Tomlin made a comment about knowing Flacco was gonna be a problem after that moment.

IMO the kid definately has what it takes to lead his team down the field in the 4th quater to win a game.

[tweety]

Ryan passed expectations but Flacco exceeded more.

Bottom line, from a "bias" point of view I see Flacco as the future of football.

[darklight1216]

[quote name='jfc13' date='09 July 2009 - 06:09 PM' timestamp='1247177360' post='205779']
I don't know, but apparently theFranchise is going to do it! LOL.

And do it well, if his past posts are any indication.


I was making a general statement that when "analysts" compare two players, they generally use cut-and-dried stats that don't consider other influences, such as a QB without decent receivers would have lower numbers influenced by that or the heavier reliance on a running game. Or when saying Flacco must be better because he won 2 playoff games - we need to factor in the other players and coaching staff. [b]Dilfer won a Super Bowl, does that mean he was the best QB that year?[/b]

I just was saying that an actual analytical approach should factor in outside influences and be explained in the results. However, there are so many factors, every article would be bogged down with them, so it's probably not practical.

However, I am certainly interested in what theFranchise comes up with!
[/quote]
No one is trying to say that Joe was the best qb in the league; we are only sizing up two guys who had comparable skill levels and experience.
For what it's worth, if you show me another quarterback who had Dilfer's stats (or close to it) but who did not win the Superbowl, I think it is a no brainer that Dilfer was better.

Stats really aren't my thing- that's what Franchise and Prophet are for.

I will recycle some posts from previous discussions though.

Disclaimer: I quoted myself several times (too tired to think of new stuff) and you should know that I had my purple tinted glasses on while I originally made these posts.

[quote name='Twoo' date='23 June 2009 - 11:37 AM' timestamp='1245771424' post='202908']
[b]First 8 games[/b]

Flacco: 1464 yards, 5 td, 5 int, 6.7 yards per throw average
Rating: 76%

Ryan: 1661 yards, 9 td, 7 int, 8.2 yards per throw average
Rating: 95.25%

[b]Last 8 games[/b]

Flacco: 1507 yards, 9 td, 5 int, 7.3 yards per throw average
Rating: 85%

Ryan: 1779 yards, 7 td, 7 int, 8.6 yards per throw average
Rating: 89%

-----------------------------

Ryan had the better rookie regular season, Flacco had the better rookie post season. I believe Ryan deserved the ROTY award over Flacco. Granted Flacco took us to the AFC, but we didn't exactly win 2 post season games on his arm.

But... things to remember:

Ryan was named the starter before the pre-season games, Flacco was named the starter just before the first regular season game. Ryan had training camp, pre-season, etc with the first squad. Flacco was playing with the 2nd/3rd squad and didn't have many passes to the starters.

------------------------------

Last but not least... team stats.

[b]Ravens[/b]

Offense: 11th in points, 18th in ypg, 28th in passing ypg, 4th in rushing ypg

Defense: [b]3rd[/b] in points, [b]2nd[/b] in ypg, [b]2nd[/b] in passing ypg, [b]3rd[/b] in rushg ypg

[b]Falcons[/b]

Offense: [b]10th[/b] in points, [b]6th[/b] in ypg, [b]14th[/b] in passing ypg, [b]2nd[/b] in rushing ypg

Defense: 11th in points, 24th in ypg, 21st in passing ypg, 25th in rushg ypg
[/quote]
[quote name='Twoo' date='23 June 2009 - 11:53 AM' timestamp='1245772403' post='202913']
2008 Falcons season: 23rd hardest .461
2008 Ravens season: 4th hardest .551

2009 Falcons season: 4th hardest .588
2009 Ravens season: 28th hardest .438

A complete reverse of last year as far as stats go.
[/quote]

[quote name='darklight1216' date='23 June 2009 - 08:35 PM' timestamp='1245803755' post='203083']
Wiat a minute, wasn't this thread originally about Ryan being "head and shoulders" above Flacco? We all know that Ryan finished out with some better stats.

That was a great post; very well thought out. However I think you are missing one very important factor: the opponents.

These were the top ten pass defenses last year:
1 Pittsburgh Steelers
2 Baltimore Ravens
3 Philadelphia Eagles
4 Tampa Bay Buccaneers
5 Dallas Cowboys
6 Indianapolis Colts
7 Washington Redskins
8 New York Giants
9 Tennessee Titans
10 Oakland Raiders

The Ravens played 8 of them(exclude Baltimore), one of them twice (3 times if you count the postseason) and the Falcons played 3 of them (Eagles, Raiders, and Buccs 2x).

22 Arizona Cardinals
23 New Orleans Saints
24 Jacksonville Jaguars
25 Miami Dolphins
26 Denver Broncos
27 Detroit Lions
28 Kansas City Chiefs
29 New York Jets
30 Chicago Bears
31 San Diego Chargers
32 Seattle Seahawks

These were the bottom 10 pass defenses and Atlanta played 6 (7 if you count the playoffs), and one of them twice while Baltimore played 2.

So with an advantageous schedule, a receiver that probably had the use of both arms last year, an offensive line which allowed just 17 sacks (as opposed to Flacco's 32), and as you pointed out, a very favorable start (Flacco's 1 passing td, 1 rushing td vs 7 interceptions in the first five games) Matt Ryan had just one more touchdown and one less interception than Flacco.

Edit: I forgot to mention the fact that Joe Flacco had to deal with a bye-week in week 2 and, more importantly, he is a Raven and therefore better.
[/quote]
[quote name='darklight1216' date='22 June 2009 - 11:14 PM' timestamp='1245726891' post='202801']

No, one team went 13-6 and that is the crucial difference. (Well, that and the strength of schedule, but that's already been addressed.)

Matt Ryan's playoff record: 0-1
Joe Flacco's playoff record: 2-1

Quarterbacks with winning playoff records win Championships.
The greatest playoff records of all time:
Bart Starr 9-1 in the playoffs
Tom Brady 14-3 in the playoffs
Kurt Warner 8-3 in the playoffs
[Interestingly, Matt Ryan is often called "the next Peyton Manning" and [i]his[/i] playoff record is about 7-8.]


Post season td-int
Matt Ryan 2-2 (game 1)
Joe Flacco 0-0 (game 1)
1-0 (game 2)
Now it get's ugly, but let's not forget that some people didn't get this far: 0-3 (game 3)

Teams that toss more touchdowns than their opponents are 207-62 (.770).
Teams that toss fewer interceptions than their opponents are 258-56 (.822).

Now the obvious question is: can Joe Flacco keep a winng playoff record? That remains to be seen, but he is certainly ahead of Matt Ryan.
[/quote]
What Franchise will come up with is anyone's guess, but this is what he had to say a while ago.
[quote name='theFRANCHISE' date='17 May 2009 - 02:17 PM' timestamp='1242584253' post='193423']
Hindsight is always 20/20.

With that said, if we're just looking back at last offseason before anyone even knew what Matt Ryan or Joe Flacco was capable of, of course the Ravens would've taken Matt Ryan and would've done everything possible to have gotten him. I don't think it was just a rumor that the Ravens were looking to trade up to the #2 overall pick that the Rams held to get Ryan, but declined because the price was too steep.

However, no one (not even myself) knew that Joe Flacco would've been as good as he was for this team last season -- at least not so soon. Just as John Harbaugh was the backup plan, so was Flacco. So it's appropriate that they both found success together as rookies, and surpassed the men that were originally targeted to lead this team to a playoff run (Jason Garrett and Matt Ryan, respectively).

But regardless of whether Matt Ryan would've been available, I obviously still would've pushed for Joe Flacco, with my Delaware bias. Bias aside, however, I was convinced then (and am still convinced now) that Flacco is the right guy for [i]this team.[/i] It's impossible to develop into an elite player overnight by yourself; even guys like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady needed the right mixture of talent and coaching to find success. I believe that, with the core that this team has now, Flacco [i]can[/i] be that elite QB of the future, [i]very[/i] soon.
[/quote]
You mentioned the receivers and here is some info from wikipedia.

[quote name='darklight1216' date='18 May 2009 - 07:24 AM' timestamp='1242645894' post='193607']

"Roddy White became the first Falcon WR since 1999 to reach 1,000 single season receiving yards on December 23, 2007. He also finished tied for 8th among all NFL wide receivers in receiving yards in 2007 with 1,202 yards. He had 6 receiving touchdowns.

Roddy White's 2008 performance was even better than the previous year, finishing 4th in the NFL in receiving yards (3rd in the NFC). He finished the year with 1,382 receiving yards (career high and team record), 88 receptions (career high), and 7 touchdowns (career high). He broke Alfred Jenkins team record of 1,358 receiving yards, which stood since 1981.
On December 16, 2008, White was named to the 2009 Pro Bowl."

"In 2008, [Derrick] Mason was selected as a third alternate wide receiver for the Pro Bowl. In [2008-] 2009, he had 80 receptions for 1037 receiving yards and 5 touchdowns."

Don't forget that Mason is 35 now and Roddy White is either 27-28 (look it up, if you wish) and a couple of inches taller than Mason. Now I don't know how much of a difference 6'0 vs 5'10 makes, but it seems like it always better to have the taller target.
I think that Matt Ryan had the advantage on offense from any angle you look at.
[/quote]

[tweety]

You can try so many ways to match up two player. All that counts is we are happy with our pick. I'm happy we didn't move up to get Matt Ryan, which would cost draft picks and money. Secondly, Ryan hasn't given me concrete reason to believe he will be better that Flacco.

[flynismo]

[quote name='darklight1216' date='09 July 2009 - 02:01 PM' timestamp='1247162470' post='205748']
All right fine, forget the weapons... who won two playoff games?
[/quote]

Our defense and special teams?

That aside, Flacco is the man.

[tweety]

[quote name='flynismo' date='10 July 2009 - 12:07 AM' timestamp='1247198845' post='205817']
Our defense and [b]????????????special teams??????????????[/b]

That aside, Flacco is the man.
[/quote]
??

[codizzle]

[quote name='tweety' date='09 July 2009 - 11:16 PM' timestamp='1247199374' post='205818']
??
[/quote]
u cant possibly say it wasnt our defense and special teams that carried us to the playoffs

[neepo13]

[quote name='codizzle' date='10 July 2009 - 12:26 AM' timestamp='1247200012' post='205819']
u cant possibly say it wasnt our defense and special teams [b]that carried us to the playoffs[/b][/quote]

I dont like that sentiment. Flacco might not be flashy but he wasnt carried. His contribution may not show up on his stats but he did plenty. He did what was asked of him. It amazes me that after so many years of not having a QB that can get the little things right (i.e. throwing the ball away instead of taking a sack or forcing to someone thats not open, tucking the ball away before taking off running, remembering the plays,staying poised, so and so on) that we of all fans can now take it for granted and say that we would have still won without. Dont forget all the great defenses and special teams units that we've had over the last 5 or 6 years that either failed to get to the post season all togethere or failed to get past the first game because our QB couldnt get the little things right. If Flacco hadnt stepped up and did what was asked of him, our defense and ST would have gone nowhere just like before. Our playoff run was a total team effort. Flacco wouldnt have succeed without them just like they wouldnt have succeed without him.

[flynismo]

[quote name='tweety' date='10 July 2009 - 12:16 AM' timestamp='1247199374' post='205818']
??
[/quote]

Ed Reed single handedly whooped Miami, and we beat TEN due to an insane amount of turnovers forced by our D and then a last second FG by Stover in a 13-10 victory.

Flacco is my new man crush, but even I cant lie for him on this one, lol, as much as I would love to!

Dont worry though, I think that soon enough Bazooka Joe will be putting our D on his shoulders and carrying us to and through the postseason.

[flynismo]

[quote name='neepo13' date='10 July 2009 - 01:08 AM' timestamp='1247202523' post='205823']
I dont like that sentiment. Flacco might not be flashy but he wasnt carried. His contribution may not show up on his stats but he did plenty. He did what was asked of him. It amazes me that after so many years of not having a QB that can get the little things right (i.e. throwing the ball away instead of taking a sack or forcing to someone thats not open, tucking the ball away before taking off running, remembering the plays,staying poised, so and so on) that we of all fans can now take it for granted and say that we would have still won without. Dont forget all the great defenses and special teams units that we've had over the last 5 or 6 years that either failed to get to the post season all togethere or failed to get past the first game because our QB couldnt get the little things right. If Flacco hadnt stepped up and did what was asked of him, our defense and ST would have gone nowhere just like before. Our playoff run was a total team effort. Flacco wouldnt have succeed without them just like they wouldnt have succeed without him.
[/quote]

Flacco showed his inexperience at times, but dammit, all in all that was an amazing debut! Just imagine if he had a little more to work with in the passing game (maybe if Heap could have ran more routes, D Will staying healthy, or whatever....). I agree, we could not possibly have asked more of the kid.

Over/under on his first Pro Bowl selection: 2010 season

[shaikh015]

Either way Flacco is going to have to hold is own next year...I heard an arguement that Ray Lewis carried Dilfer on his back in 2000..However, Ray and some of the other guys including Ed Reed are getting older and so their no longer able to carry a unforced error Qb on their backs...So Flacco is going to have to step it up next year and prove to the NFL and to the world that the Ravens do have an offense....
I still believe that Dilfer was the man in 2000 but the D was flawless and probably still is...

[flynismo]

[quote name='shaikh015' date='10 July 2009 - 03:04 AM' timestamp='1247209442' post='205838']
Either way Flacco is going to have to hold is own next year...I heard an arguement that Ray Lewis carried Dilfer on his back in 2000..However, Ray and some of the other guys including Ed Reed are getting older and so their no longer able to carry a unforced error Qb on their backs...So Flacco is going to have to step it up next year and prove to the NFL and to the world that the Ravens do have an offense....
I still believe that Dilfer was the man in 2000 but the D was flawless and probably still is...
[/quote]

I wouldn't say that our defense isn't still capable of carrying this team to a Lombardi, but you are right, Flacco will need to make the next step for it to be a realistic expectation. Tom Brady's coming back and NE just had a great draft, Peyton Manning still has air in his lungs so Indy is still a threat, and I hear Pittsburgh is coming off a pretty solid season...we can definitely build off of what we accomplished last year, but a lot of that will depend on Flacco's progression. I have faith in him though, I think he will come through for us in a big way.