Most Complete Team In The Nfl?

[darklight1216]

[quote name='BmoreRav' post='199227' date='Jun 12 2009, 08:22 PM']I'm sorry but even after your explanation I have to lol really hard at the Bengals being in the top 4 most complete team on paper!!
Your putting too much merit on a kicker in overall special teams in terms of missing "the third most accurate kicker in NFL history" also!
It wasn't as if he was clutch for us last season.

Career stats will only get you so far!!

I agree we don't have a complete team but the Bengals!!!???? [/quote]
You're right, the kicker is an overrated position on special teams anyway; All they do is score points. I shouldn't have said anything abour our kicker; it wasn't as if Stover was the Ravens all time leader in points or anything. He didn't happen to score the last three points in a playoff game or anything. He never had over a dozen game winning kicks. And those two guys we have now have already proven that they are on the same level as Matt Stover... oh wait a minute...

You don't like my choices; so what?

[BmoreRav]

[quote name='darklight1216' post='199233' date='Jun 13 2009, 01:51 AM']You're right, the kicker is an overrated position on special teams anyway; All they do is score points. I shouldn't have said anything abour our kicker; it wasn't as if Stover was the Ravens all time leader in points or anything. He didn't happen to score the last three points in a playoff game or anything. He never had over a dozen game winning kicks. And those two guys we have now have already proven that they are on the same level as Matt Stover... oh wait a minute...

You don't like my choices; so what?[/quote]

What you talking about?? Your spewing stats again, i never said kicker wasn't an important position!! Those stats didn't make a difference last season so lets move on, losing Stover this season will not diminish our special teams as you are making out.

You don't like my opinion of your post; so what?

[darklight1216]

[quote name='BmoreRav' post='199227' date='Jun 12 2009, 08:22 PM']I'm sorry but even after your explanation I have to lol really hard at the Bengals being in the top 4 most complete team on paper!!
[b]Your putting too much merit on a kicker[/b] in overall special teams in terms of missing "the third most accurate kicker in NFL history" also!
It wasn't as if he was clutch for us last season.

Career stats will only get you so far!!

I agree we don't have a complete team but the Bengals!!!???? [/quote]
[quote name='BmoreRav' post='199235' date='Jun 12 2009, 08:57 PM']What you talking about?? Your spewing stats again, [b]i never said kicker wasn't an important position!![/b] Those stats didn't make a difference last season so lets move on, losing Stover this season will not diminish our special teams as you are making out.

You don't like my opinion of your post; so what?[/quote]
(If you're going to disregard previous stats then I guess, logically, you would have to say that the Detriot Lions are as complete as the other 31 teams. I mean, if you're "moving on" and all.)

Let me put this another way:
Proven NFL kicker or unproven kicker... Hmm which looks better? It's a tough one, but I chose to say that our special teams do not appear complete on paper.

[BmoreRav]

[quote name='BmoreRav' post='199227' date='Jun 13 2009, 01:22 AM']I'm sorry but even after your explanation I have to lol really hard at the Bengals being in the top 4 most complete team on paper!!
[b]Your putting too much merit on a kicker in overall special teams [size=2]in terms of missing "the third most accurate kicker in NFL history[/size][/b]" also!
It wasn't as if he was clutch for us last season.

[b]Career stats will only get you so far!![/b]

I agree we don't have a complete team but the Bengals!!!???? [/quote]

If your gonna quote me, do it properly instead of twisting what I said to enhance your argument



[quote name='darklight1216' post='199240' date='Jun 13 2009, 02:25 AM'](If you're going to disregard previous stats then I guess, logically, you would have to say that the Detriot Lions are as complete as the other 31 teams. I mean, if you're "moving on" and all.)[/quote]

Nowhere did I say I'm going to disregard previous stats, but I obviously will if they ain't relevant (same as the FO it seems )
Maybe we should keep Stover on until his 60's if previous stats matter so much (they seem to in your books.)

[quote]Let me put this another way:

Proven NFL kicker or unproven kicker... Hmm which looks better? It's a tough one, but I chose to say that our special teams do not appear complete on paper.[/quote]


I never said our special teams was complete on paper, and neither was it when Stover was on the roster last season. But the way you commented on missing "the third most accurate kicker in NFL history" next year makes it sound like we will see a huge drop in overall special teams production.

[darklight1216]

[quote name='BmoreRav' post='199227' date='Jun 12 2009, 08:22 PM']I'm sorry but even after your explanation I have to lol really hard at the Bengals being in the top 4 most complete team on paper!!
Your putting too much merit on a kicker in overall special teams in terms of missing "the third most accurate kicker in NFL history" also!
It wasn't as if he was clutch for us last season.

[b]Career stats will only get you so far!![/b]

I agree we don't have a complete team but the Bengals!!!???? [/quote]
[quote name='BmoreRav' post='199235' date='Jun 12 2009, 08:57 PM']What you talking about?? [b]Your spewing stats again[/b], i never said kicker wasn't an important position!! Those stats didn't make a difference last season so lets move on, losing Stover this season will not diminish our special teams as you are making out.

You don't like my opinion of your post; so what?[/quote]
[quote name='BmoreRav' post='199252' date='Jun 12 2009, 09:47 PM']If your gonna quote me, do it properly instead of twisting what I said to enhance your argument





[b]Nowhere did I say I'm going to disregard previous stats,[/b] but I obviously will if they ain't relevant (same as the FO it seems )
Maybe we should keep Stover on until his 60's if previous stats matter so much (they seem to in your books.)




I never said our special teams was complete on paper, and neither was it when Stover was on the roster last season. But the way you commented on missing "the third most accurate kicker in NFL history" next year makes it sound like we will see a huge drop in overall special teams production.[/quote]
It seems like you were implying that you want to disregard previous stats, but maybe that's not what you meant.

Did I say we should have kept Stover forever? Or did I say that special teams will look incomplete on paper because we will have an unproven kicker as opposed to a seasoned one?

Maybe you're getting the idea that I actually think that we will be a sorry team next year, but I don't. You could look at my posts in just about any other thread if you're that intersted. I simply think that on paper we don't look great. We didn't look complete when we won the Superbowl (as I also have posted in this thread) but whatever. This is just for kicks (no pun intended) anyway.

[BmoreRav]

[quote name='darklight1216' post='199258' date='Jun 13 2009, 02:55 AM'][b]It seems like you were strongly implying that you want to disregard previous stats, but maybe that's not what you meant.[/b][/quote]

Career stats in a sense should be ignored depending on how long a career and how old a player you are talking! Previous seasons stats are valid IMO but I don't use stats to base my opinions on anyway

[quote][b]Did I say we should have kept Stover forever? Or did I say that special teams will look incomplete on paper because we will have an unproven kicker as opposed to a seasoned one?[/b][/quote]

You said neither so I don't see your point!!?

At the end of the day my problem with your post was having the Bengals in your top 4 most complete teams in the NFL which i'm still lol'ing at, other than that I couldn't give a monkeys!!


[b]Maybe you're getting the idea that I actually think that we will be a sorry team next year, but I don't. You could look at my posts in just about any other thread if you're that intersted. I simply think that on paper we don't look great. We didn't look complete when we won the Superbowl (as I also have posted in this thread) but whatever. This is just for kicks (no pun intended) anyway.[/b]

Edit: lol no I don't think you think we will be a sorry team, i'm just commenting on my disagreements of your post as you are with mine!! Nothing personal

[darklight1216]

[quote name='BmoreRav' post='199263' date='Jun 12 2009, 10:05 PM'][quote name='darklight1216' post='199258' date='Jun 12 2009, 09:55 PM']
Did I say we should have kept Stover forever? Or did I say that special teams will look incomplete on paper because we will have an unproven kicker as opposed to a seasoned one?[/quote]
[b]You said neither so I don't see your point!!?[/b][/quote]
[quote name='darklight1216' post='199240' date='Jun 12 2009, 09:25 PM'](If you're going to disregard previous stats then I guess, logically, you would have to say that the Detriot Lions are as complete as the other 31 teams. I mean, if you're "moving on" and all.)

Let me put this another way:
[b]Proven NFL kicker or unproven kicker... Hmm which looks better? It's a tough one, but I chose to say that our special teams do not appear complete on paper.[/b][/quote]
[quote name='BmoreRav' post='199252' date='Jun 12 2009, 09:47 PM'][b]If your gonna quote me, do it properly[/b] instead of twisting what I said to enhance your argument [/quote]

[McBurks]

The most complete team?Hard to say,no one team is elite in every position even the Patriots and Colts who have ? at the RB position.The most complete team right now are the Eagles,they have a good QB,RB seems iffy but if the can stay healthy they will win.Their line is beast adding Peters and Andrews,and there defense is solid.

[BmoreRav]

Wow things are getting petty, I didn't quote you so the last "quote" is irrelevant!!

Regardless I still disagree with your points. Putting "the third most accurate kicker in NFL history" as a major special teams loss is misleading, I love Stover as much as anyone but it's time to move on!

Putting the Bengals in your top four most complete teams is a joke, that's where my main argument lies but that seems to have been ignored.

Anyway, it's 4am here and i've got an incoming hangover

Time for bed.

[pick-ups]

[quote name='Simba' post='199269' date='Jun 12 2009, 07:46 PM']The most complete team?Hard to say,no one team is elite in every position even the Patriots and Colts who have ? at the RB position.The most complete team right now are the Eagles,they have a good QB,RB seems iffy but if the can stay healthy they will win.Their line is beast adding Peters and Andrews,and there defense is solid.[/quote]
I believe the Eagles are pretty set all the way around(offense/defense/special teams),but I am getting tired of all the off-season love they're getting and just like everyone else,I just want the season to start.

[darklight1216]

[quote name='BmoreRav' post='199277' date='Jun 12 2009, 11:01 PM']Wow things are getting petty, [b]I didn't quote you so the last "quote" is irrelevant!![/b]

Regardless I still disagree with your points. Putting "the third most accurate kicker in NFL history" as a major special teams loss is misleading, I love Stover as much as anyone but it's time to move on!

Putting the Bengals in your top four most complete teams is a joke, that's where my main argument lies but that seems to have been ignored.

Anyway, it's 4am here and i've got an incoming hangover

Time for bed.[/quote]
I know, but I wanted to have that entire post be composed of quotes. If you had had said "If you're going to quote me, get your facts straight," that would have been more appropriate for my subsequent post, but I had to work with what was there. Have a good morning.

[flynismo]

I think the Pats are clearly the closest thing to a complete team, especially after the draft they just had.

[scotchtape622]

Unfortunately, I'll have to say the Patriots. They have no major weakness.

[codizzle]

piece of cake in this order

patriots
steelers
eagles
ravens
chargers
titans
cowboys ON PAPER too many issues though

giants are a heck no lost their only two offensive superstars besides jacobs ... to many question marks on offense

[McBurks]

The Patriots have one MAJOR weakness,there running game.People may say adding Fred Taylor will help out,but it won't.He's like all other old running backs,slow and injury prone.Unless they make a move and get a better veteran like Edgerrin James,they're not complete.

[smashmouth]

[quote name='Alexir' post='199154' date='Jun 12 2009, 04:19 PM']Hm lets see. 4th ranked defense. They just signed Haynesworth. Their corners are really really good. Leron is a beast. Horton will probably get the SS start. The linebackers are a little old but they are using Orkapo as a LB now.

on to offense. Chris Cooley, Clinton Portis, Mike Sellers, Chris Samuel, Santana Moss, Randle El, Devin Thomas, Malcom Kelly

Only thing this team needs is a consistent QB.

if you think the Redskins arent a complete team but you think the ravens are, you are ******ing high![/quote]
You must not have watched the Ravens for very long. A consistant QB is HUGE. I had a dream, and in that dream Baltimore had a consistant QB from 2001 to 2007, and that QB got the Ravens to the playoffs [font="Book Antiqua"]consistantly[/font]. Another side note, signing big name free agents dont return huge results, chemistry can play a bigger role then one stud free agent.

[quote name='ZIBBY28' post='199162' date='Jun 12 2009, 04:52 PM']i dont think any team in the NFL is, or will ever be "complete," but the closest teams to it IMO are:

Patriots
Steelers
Eagles
Giants[/quote]
These are my favorite 4 as being the most complete, I would back the Eagles to 5 and throw in the Ravens at 4. With starters coming back all over the place and a new found return game ( wish yamon figures would return to doing this [url="http://www.nfl.com/players/yamonfigurs/profile?id=FIG715551"]http://www.nfl.com/players/yamonfigurs/profile?id=FIG715551[/url] at 25 seconds. )

[quote name='darklight1216' post='199233' date='Jun 12 2009, 08:51 PM']You're right, the kicker is an overrated position on special teams anyway; All they do is score points. I shouldn't have said anything abour our kicker; it wasn't as if Stover was the Ravens all time leader in points or anything. He didn't happen to score the last three points in a playoff game or anything. He never had over a dozen game winning kicks. And those two guys we have now have already proven that they are on the same level as Matt Stover... oh wait a minute...

You don't like my choices; so what?[/quote]

Stover is and was great, in the clutch he was at his best, theres no doubt. And if we dont resign him, thats where we will probally struggle, or at least fear if the games on the line with a FG try. You gotta also look at the baggage Matt Stover carry's now adays. We have to keep another kicker for longer FG's and for kickoffs. Thats a spot that the Ravens HIGHLY needed the past couple years. He also missed a couple of FG's that was once automatic for him. Our ST's grade shouldent go down as not complete just because we dont have Stover though.

[smashmouth]

[quote name='darklight1216' post='199133' date='Jun 12 2009, 01:54 PM']I strongly disagree. Our team is far from "complete. We obviously have a great defense, the coaching staff has turned out well so far, but it looks like our special teams will be lacking the third most accurate kicker in NFL history, and our offense was ranked 28th last year. I certainly believe that we will get better, but objectively speaking, we do not have a complete team.

I think the most complete teams (on paper at least) are the Philadelphia Eagles, Cincinnati Bengals, Washington Redskins, and the New England Patriots.[/quote]
The Bungholes really? As a complete team? really? They have Carson Palmer coming back, but they also lost there clutch reciever in "whosyourmomma". There offense will be scary once again, yes I said it, scary. But there defense is just funny. They ranked mid to bottem half of the NFL in all stats on defense, yea there offense was bad last year, but Palmer is a top 5 QB in the league. Not including that there always consistantly inconsistant.

Stats also can be misleading, we ranked 28th in passing yards, not offense. Our PPG was 11th, our YPG was 18th and our run game was 4th. Why try to tax stats on offense when we could beat teams to submission. we played smashmouth football which usally does not return great offensive stats.
A better return game and better kickoffs would put us at the top. If our o-line improves like they should from being a year older ( hopefullt Yanda healthy ) then our passing offense should go up and it should very well put us as the most complete team. The Pats and Giants are hard to argue with but Pats have better offense, less defense then us. Giants are good all the way around but they struggled mightly without plexiglass.

[McBurks]

[quote name='smashmouth' post='199334' date='Jun 13 2009, 04:19 AM']The Bungholes really? As a complete team? really? They have Carson Palmer coming back, but they also lost there clutch reciever in "whosyourmomma". There offense will be scary once again, yes I said it, scary. But there defense is just funny. They ranked mid to bottem half of the NFL in all stats on defense, yea there offense was bad last year, but Palmer is a top 5 QB in the league. Not including that there always consistantly inconsistant.

[b]Stats also can be misleading, we ranked 28th in passing yards, not offense. Our PPG was 11th, our YPG was 18th and our run game was 4th. Why try to tax stats on offense when we could beat teams to submission. we played smashmouth football which usally does not return great offensive stats.
A better return game and better kickoffs would put us at the top. If our o-line improves like they should from being a year older ( hopefullt Yanda healthy ) then our passing offense should go up and it should very well put us as the most complete team.[/b] The Pats and Giants are hard to argue with but Pats have better offense, less defense then us. Giants are good all the way around but they struggled mightly without plexiglass.[/quote]

Exactly.With the whole offense being one year under Cam's system they should know it a lot better and be phenomenal blocking this season.Knowing that Flacco will have more time to throw to Heap which will be his security blanket this year.

[Ozzsome]

I just think that we have a complete team because we have a good young QB, a good Oline, great RBs, we have some concerns about our WRs but mason is a great veteran, clayton has a lot of potential in my opinion and d williams is also good when he stays healthy and our defense is still one of the best, scott is gone but i think gooden is a solid replacement and we have gregg and landry back again

there is no team that has great players on every position thats why i think we are close to a complete team

[reediddy]

[quote name='Ray The Day' post='199339' date='Jun 13 2009, 03:16 AM']I just think that we have a complete team because we have a good young QB, a good Oline, great RBs, we have some concerns about our WRs but mason is a great veteran, clayton has a lot of potential in my opinion and d williams is also good when he stays healthy and our defense is still one of the best, scott is gone but i think gooden is a solid replacement and we have gregg and landry back again

there is no team that has great players on every position thats why i think we are close to a complete team[/quote]

exactly, our only question mark is the WR corps even though Mason is proven, that's why this season will be a good parameter as to measuring how close we are to complete, the only reason we weaken a lil bit every year is injuries

[Alexir]

[quote name='smashmouth' post='199331' date='Jun 13 2009, 04:01 AM']You must not have watched the Ravens for very long. A consistant QB is HUGE. I had a dream, and in that dream Baltimore had a consistant QB from 2001 to 2007, and that QB got the Ravens to the playoffs [font="Book Antiqua"]consistantly[/font]. Another side note, signing big name free agents dont return huge results, chemistry can play a bigger role then one stud free agent.[/quote]

First of all I dont know what hell you are talking about.
Second of all I have watched the ravens for a long time and I dont know why you are referring to them when I was obviously talking about the Redskins.
Third of all, I just dont know what point you are trying to make.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Simba' post='199330' date='Jun 13 2009, 02:54 AM']The Patriots have one MAJOR weakness,there running game.People may say adding Fred Taylor will help out,but it won't.He's like all other old running backs,slow and injury prone.Unless they make a move and get a better veteran like Edgerrin James,they're not complete.[/quote]

The patriots dont use a conventional style running game though, they use alot of draws from the shotgun and short throws to their backs on first down as their kind of run game. Ps Edgerrin James is not as good as Fred Taylor, James just had fresh legs in the playoffs you take any half decent HB and "rest" him for the entire season and youll get the same result, Taylor is the better back.

[Ravenoid]

What made us a Superbowl team? Great defense and return game, a rookie runningback that could realy pound the rock and a QB that could manage the game with help from the tight end. What do we have this year? Great defense and return game with Carr, a runningback that can pound the rock and a QB that can manage the game with help from his tight end.

[smashmouth]

[quote name='Alexir' post='199405' date='Jun 13 2009, 03:21 PM']First of all I dont know what hell you are talking about.
Second of all I have watched the ravens for a long time and I dont know why you are referring to them when I was obviously talking about the Redskins.
Third of all, I just dont know what point you are trying to make.[/quote]
So was I, Jason Cambell sucks, end of story, there situation is the same if not worse then Baltimore's the past 8 years. They dont have a consitistant QB. They are not top 4 and never will be till Snyder leaves.

[McBurks]

[quote name='smashmouth' post='199535' date='Jun 14 2009, 12:58 AM']So was I, [b]Jason Cambell sucks[/b], end of story, there situation is the same if not worse then Baltimore's the past 8 years.They dont have a consitistant QB.[/quote]

Yes,Campbell will probably get benched if he loses the first few games and then Brennan will get his shot and take the Skins' to the playoffs!Ok,with my dreams aside,lets continue...

[quote name='smashmouth' post='199535' date='Jun 14 2009, 12:58 AM']They are not top 4 and never will be till Snyder leaves.[/quote]

Can't throw money at your problems.Once Haynesworth gets tired of having to be on the field for 35 minutes because his offense can't score,the Redskins will start to crumble.I somehow see they end up finishing last in the NFC East and draft Tim Tebow next year.

[lowrider]

[quote name='darklight1216' post='199167' date='Jun 12 2009, 05:00 PM']Okay, the thing that you have to remember is that I said "on paper."
Washington has a great defense already (4th in the league) and, as you said, they added Haynesworth which should only improve them. With all the offensive pro-bowlers that they have, even an average qb [i]should[/i] look good on that team, which means they they [i]should[/i] have a complete team. Again I must stress the "on paper" part. I don't really think they are Superbowl competitors and maybe not even playoff competitors, but they [i]look[/i] somewhat complete in my opinion... though much less so than Philly and NE.[/quote]
Not sold on the redskins. They got players. But their offensive line is old and falling apart and they cant put pressure on the qb at all. Haynesworth cant do everything. But their main problem is their offensive line is falling apart. Another thing is Portis might be on the downslide. Hes gotten a ton of carries over his career and that eventually adds up. I'm not drafting him for fantasy football. I just got a feeling he is going to get hurt. And to the defense of Jason Campbell, he has had to learn a new offense every year in the league. And Peyton Manning complains about learning 2 playbooks over his career. I'm just saying. But i still think the redskins are going to be bad.

Most complete team in the nfl is hard to say. Especially now since the only thing we have to look at is on paper. On paper i would say philly patroits steelers. But Ravens and Giants I think are going to show they are the most complete teams during the regular season.

[bossman419]

The Redskins are most definitely going to be pretenders in the NFC East. Way too many good teams in that division and they have one huge problem on offense, Jason Campbell. Now that Albert Haynesworth got paid he is going to do nothing.

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

I would say the Eagles and Patriots are more complete, then the Steelers. Ravens are up there though. Probably need a better receiver and some help on special teams.

[funky141]

I need to jump in on this post. A lot has been said of New England being complete but I disagree, last years defense didn't crack the top ten and this years there are new faces on the defensive side of the ball so we need to hold judgement on that till the end of the 2009 season. They were ranked 7th in special teams so there is discussion they belong but not #1. Here is a link to a more accurate ranking [url="http://www.protrade.com/team/TeamRankingsNFL.html"]http://www.protrade.com/team/TeamRankingsNFL.html[/url]

I like the
Eagles,
Pittsburgh
Ravens
Colts
Giants
Chargers

Just my two cents

[lowrider]

[quote name='funky141' post='199843' date='Jun 15 2009, 11:50 AM']I need to jump in on this post. A lot has been said of New England being complete but I disagree, last years defense didn't crack the top ten and this years there are new faces on the defensive side of the ball so we need to hold judgement on that till the end of the 2009 season. They were ranked 7th in special teams so there is discussion they belong but not #1. Here is a link to a more accurate ranking [url="http://www.protrade.com/team/TeamRankingsNFL.html"]http://www.protrade.com/team/TeamRankingsNFL.html[/url]

I like the
Eagles,
Pittsburgh
Ravens
Colts
Giants
Chargers

Just my two cents[/quote]
Thats a good point on their defense. The Patroits defense is getting really old. Chargers pass defense is horrible. and the Colts running defense is weak. Not only that the colts running game is struggling with how hurt Addai has been lately. Maybe not complete but with manning there, colts are still a very good team.