T. Gooden Is Ready To Take Over

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='52Kia Kaha92' post='193028' date='May 15 2009, 09:43 PM']barnes times fast but doesnt play fast[/quote]

I think its more stopping and changing direction, straight line speed is good and burst is great but doesnt play to his 4.4 timed speed. I think he is playing 15lb heavier than when he ran at his combine.

[20ravens52]

I do not think you can really judge his speed quite yet...He has been pretty fast on special teams. His speed will get faster on defense when he begins to trust his instincts/reactions more on plays when he gets more playing time on Defense.

[neepo13]

[quote name='#1 D' post='193023' date='May 15 2009, 09:03 PM'][b]I would think it's because Barnes' primary position is OLB whereas the position being battled for is the Inside position.[/b] We already got suggs and jj there...he's just a luxury, occasional pass-rush linebacker if ya ask me.[/quote]

You could make that same arguement for Jameel McClain. I could be wrong but I dont recall seeing him mentioned as an inside backer prior to Bart Scott leaving. It was always Griesan and Gooden.

[neepo13]

[quote name='52Kia Kaha92' post='193028' date='May 15 2009, 09:43 PM']barnes times fast but doesnt play fast[/quote]

I dont know. In that one game vs the Pats in 07, he looked pretty good and imo, if it wasnt for holding being legal for the Pats OL, he probably would have gotten 2 or 3 sacks.

[52Kia Kaha92]

where does it say in what you qouted me that i didnt think he was good
I said he isnt as fast as he times not that he aint godd
And besides that game he has done nothing to help himself

[neepo13]

[quote name='52Kia Kaha92' post='193046' date='May 15 2009, 11:25 PM']where does it say in what you qouted me that i didnt think he was good
I said he isnt as fast as he times not that he aint godd
And besides that game he has done nothing to help himself[/quote]

Where did I say that you said he wasnt good? In that entire post I was talking about his speed, which is what you were talking about. That game is the only game we can point to as reference for him because thats the only game where he played with our entire starting line up, mostly, and had significant playing time. And in that game he looked fast enough. I dont think we should be judging him just based on preseason games where he is playing with a bunch of guys who wont make the team. The players we have in our starting lineup are capable of making players better.

[52Kia Kaha92]

fair enough

I just hope that Barnes explodes in camp because he has the most potential on the defence to be a star IMO
I just hope he becomes unblockable and he and Suggs get a nickname by the media as the Serial Sackers or somethings. I just hope he unleashes the potnential this year

[BloodRaven]

I hated that hit Barnes put on that Eagles punter, because it makes us look like hipocrites when we go trash Hines Ward. And its stupid things like that that cost you those clutch games.

Obviously Barnes has further to go than McClain, despite his better size/speed/strength numbers and potential he seems to be relegated to special teams and rare situational pass-rush snaps.

If McClain is competing with Gooden for the spot next to Ray that also tells you how far hes developing as a football player...not just pass rusher.

[52Kia Kaha92]

good pont blood raven, McClain is really expanding his role as a football player and im excited to see him this year in action

[neepo13]

[quote name='BloodRaven' post='193065' date='May 16 2009, 12:20 AM'][b]I hated that hit Barnes put on that Eagles punter, because it makes us look like hipocrites when we go trash Hines Ward. And its stupid things like that that cost you those clutch games.[/b]

Obviously Barnes has further to go than McClain, despite his better size/speed/strength numbers and potential he seems to be relegated to special teams and rare situational pass-rush snaps.

If McClain is competing with Gooden for the spot next to Ray that also tells you how far hes developing as a football player...not just pass rusher.[/quote]

I disagree. We are only hypocrits if we condone that type of behavoir from our players and try to justify it like Steeler fans do.

[MKdave]

[quote name='neepo13' post='193080' date='May 16 2009, 07:09 AM']I disagree. We are only hypocrits if we condone that type of behavoir from our players and try to justify it like Steeler fans do.[/quote]

I condone that behaviour. That punter was an ex-aussie rules guy, so he can tackle probably aswell as the rest of that coverage team. He was just taking a potential tackler down.

Then again I'm not really one of those people to get on Hines Ward for his blocks.

[#1 D]

[quote name='neepo13' post='193044' date='May 15 2009, 11:16 PM']You could make that same arguement for Jameel McClain. I could be wrong but I dont recall seeing him mentioned as an inside backer prior to Bart Scott leaving. It was always Griesan and Gooden.[/quote]

yea, fair enuf...but i just think that coming out of free agency Jameel loocked like more of a project in our eyes rather than Antwan Barnes. Antwan was drafted as an OLB and i guess he's gonna end up playing there...but Jameel came in as a versatile player who just needs time to adjust playing there. but i see your point

[slugz1]

[quote name='BloodRaven' post='193032' date='May 15 2009, 10:31 PM']I think its more stopping and changing direction, straight line speed is good and burst is great but doesnt play to his 4.4 timed speed. I think he is playing 15lb heavier than when he ran at his combine.[/quote]
only time you see his 4.4 speed is when he chasing down WRs he cant run 4.4 speed taking on a OL thats where them 30 reps come into play

[slugz1]

[quote name='BloodRaven' post='193065' date='May 16 2009, 12:20 AM']I hated that hit Barnes put on that Eagles punter, because it makes us look like hipocrites when we go trash Hines Ward. And its stupid things like that that cost you those clutch games.

Obviously Barnes has further to go than McClain, despite his better size/speed/strength numbers and potential he seems to be relegated to special teams and rare situational pass-rush snaps.

If McClain is competing with Gooden for the spot next to Ray that also tells you how far hes developing as a football player...not just pass rusher.[/quote]
no way will we put barnes in the middle hes to fast for that so thats why no MLB consideration for him Barnes and suggs on the edge is deadly

[lowrider]

I havent heard any updates on Barnes but I have heard a lot of talk about Gooden and McClain. Does that automatically assume that Gooden and McClain are better and going to get the position? No, but i guess it does mean that the Ravens like Gooden and McClain more. Its interesting because last year i read an article where he was an excellant pass rusher but was poor in coverage (but was working with heap to improve on his coverage abilities). I wonder if Barnes will be anything more than a special team guy

[#1 D]

[quote name='lowrider' post='193169' date='May 16 2009, 03:41 PM']I havent heard any updates on Barnes but I have heard a lot of talk about Gooden and McClain. Does that automatically assume that Gooden and McClain are better and going to get the position? No, but i guess it does mean that the Ravens like Gooden and McClain more. Its interesting because last year i read an article where he was an excellant pass rusher but was poor in coverage (but was working with heap to improve on his coverage abilities). I wonder if Barnes will be anything more than a special team guy[/quote]

If ya look at it this way, then if he doesn't turn out as expected, it's not like he was a bust anyways...we took him in the 5th round, so anything more than a special teamer, in my eyes, is gravy.

[kze]

[quote name='lowrider' post='193169' date='May 16 2009, 09:41 PM']I havent heard any updates on Barnes but I have heard a lot of talk about Gooden and McClain. Does that automatically assume that Gooden and McClain are better and going to get the position? No, but i guess it does mean that the Ravens like Gooden and McClain more. Its interesting because last year i read an article where he was an excellant pass rusher but was poor in coverage (but was working with heap to improve on his coverage abilities). I wonder if Barnes will be anything more than a special team guy[/quote]

I'd like to think it's because Gooden and McClain are battling it out for the ILB position. Barnes on the other hand is an OLB.

[wayne]

[quote name='kze' post='193183' date='May 16 2009, 03:29 PM']I'd like to think it's because Gooden and McClain are battling it out for the ILB position. Barnes on the other hand is an OLB.[/quote]

Exactly what I'm thinking. Why mentioned Barnes on a battle for a ILB spot? Now, I would like to hear a battle between JJ and Barnes for the OLB spot. Can anyone find any data on that?

[RoflDogs]

McClain and Gooden in the middle for the next decade?

[BleedPurple92]

[quote name='kze' post='193183' date='May 16 2009, 04:29 PM']I'd like to think it's because Gooden and McClain are battling it out for the ILB position. Barnes on the other hand is an OLB.[/quote]

The thing is, I think McClain is moving inside, to make room for Kruger, and really we dont have any depth behind Gooden and Ray on the inside. Man i cant wait to see Kruger, and Suggs on the outside, that'll be beastly!

Guys i dont know how JJ fits into this D.....He is one of my favorite players, but at least for now, till Kruger gets big enough to play DE, i see his playing time getting smaller and smaller, i dont know where Barnes fits into the equation honestly, not this year atleast. And are we going to Resign JJ? I doubt it.

I really want to see Barnes play, there is enough playing time, and enough snaps, to get a good amount of sacks, and be productive.

[wayne]

[quote name='BleedPurple92' post='193206' date='May 16 2009, 07:11 PM']The thing is, I think McClain is moving inside, to make room for Kruger, and really we dont have any depth behind Gooden and Ray on the inside. Man i cant wait to see Kruger, and Suggs on the outside, that'll be beastly!

Guys i dont know how JJ fits into this D.....He is one of my favorite players, but at least for now, till Kruger gets big enough to play DE, i see his playing time getting smaller and smaller, i dont know where Barnes fits into the equation honestly, not this year atleast. And are we going to Resign JJ? I doubt it.

I really want to see Barnes play, there is enough playing time, and enough snaps, to get a good amount of sacks, and be productive.[/quote]

I wouldn't just project that Kruger will be better than Barnes just yet! Barnes has alot more athleticism upside, the things that you can't teach. I would feel alot better if Barnes were to win out the OLB just b/c of how fast and strong he is. The faster/ more athletic those guys are on the outside, the more creative the D can be.

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='wayne' post='193217' date='May 16 2009, 08:55 PM']I wouldn't just project that Kruger will be better than Barnes just yet! Barnes has alot more athleticism upside, the things that you can't teach. I would feel alot better if Barnes were to win out the OLB just b/c of how fast and strong he is. The faster/ more athletic those guys are on the outside, the more creative the D can be.[/quote]

Its strange trying to figure out where they fit. Kruger and JJ are more football players than athletes, and Barnes is more athlete than football player, and the coaches seem to want JJ to remain an OLB.

I dont think anyone knows where Kruger will be lining up yet.

[wayne]

[quote name='BloodRaven' post='193222' date='May 16 2009, 08:16 PM']Its strange trying to figure out where they fit. [b]Kruger and JJ are more football players than athletes, and Barnes is more athlete than football player[/b], and the coaches seem to want JJ to remain an OLB.

I dont think anyone knows where Kruger will be lining up yet.[/quote]

Well said, well said. Hopefully, we will be receiving some news about the OLB competition soon!

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='wayne' post='193234' date='May 16 2009, 09:29 PM']Well said, well said. Hopefully, we will be receiving some news about the OLB competition soon![/quote]

With that said I still think there are options at OLB beyond JJ, hes a solid football player but we know his limits, he could even be the guy to replace Pryce on the line?

[BleedPurple92]

[quote name='BloodRaven' post='193222' date='May 16 2009, 09:16 PM']Its strange trying to figure out where they fit. Kruger and JJ are more football players than athletes, and Barnes is more athlete than football player, and the coaches seem to want JJ to remain an OLB.

I dont think anyone knows where Kruger will be lining up yet.[/quote]


I dont know if Kruger isn't athletic, he looks pretty athletic to me....

Barnes is more of an athlete, but Kruger is pretty athletic as well.....He isn't just some slow white boy, he has some pretty good physical tools, but I dont know about JJ though. He is a good player, but i just feel we could do a little better.

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='BleedPurple92' post='193448' date='May 17 2009, 03:41 PM']I dont know if Kruger isn't athletic, he looks pretty athletic to me....

Barnes is more of an athlete, but Kruger is pretty athletic as well.....He isn't just some slow white boy, he has some pretty good physical tools, but I dont know about JJ though. He is a good player, but i just feel we could do a little better.[/quote]

Kruger is faster than your average person, so he is athletic, but compared to other NFL players hes lacking in that department a little. Dont get me wrong I like the attitude of hustle guys like Kruger and JJ but the Ravens D is based on speed.

[BleedPurple92]

[quote name='BloodRaven' post='193477' date='May 17 2009, 05:24 PM']Kruger is faster than your average person, so he is athletic, but compared to other NFL players hes lacking in that department a little. Dont get me wrong I like the attitude of hustle guys like Kruger and JJ [b]but the Ravens D is based on speed.[/b][/quote]



Our Secondary is going through a transition from a physical to a more speedier Secondary. But no i dont think we are centered around speed. Although we seem to be making the transition, but our D hasn't always been centered around speed.

Man i think Mattison's D will be A LOT more Agreesive than Rex's, because why bring in all these speed guys? The faster you are the more aggressive you can be, because if you get beat trying to make a play, then you can limit the damage thanks to your speed. The same way, if we blitz, and go to cover 0, and get blocked, then no one will get behind us because we have two fast corners, so the most they can do is hit up a short or comeback route.........If you notice last year, A lot of Ed's picks came from Samari's side, because he had to cheat over there a lot, and i think we became a lot less agreesive to protect Samari, and our sack numbers went down. This year Ed should have way more than 1 sack, and Dawan should have 5+

And about what Kruger, he is going to play DE anyway, so he doesn't have to be fast, but he is Quick as hell. He gets off the ball in a heartbeat. He might be quicker than Barnes, but barnes is obviosly faster.

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='BleedPurple92' post='193489' date='May 17 2009, 06:16 PM']Our Secondary is going through a transition from a physical to a more speedier Secondary. But no i dont think we are centered around speed. Although we seem to be making the transition, but our D hasn't always been centered around speed.

Man i think Mattison's D will be A LOT more Agreesive than Rex's, because why bring in all these speed guys? The faster you are the more aggressive you can be, because if you get beat trying to make a play, then you can limit the damage thanks to your speed. The same way, if we blitz, and go to cover 0, and get blocked, then no one will get behind us because we have two fast corners, so the most they can do is hit up a short or comeback route.........If you notice last year, A lot of Ed's picks came from Samari's side, because he had to cheat over there a lot, and i think we became a lot less agreesive to protect Samari, and our sack numbers went down. This year Ed should have way more than 1 sack, and Dawan should have 5+

And about what Kruger, he is going to play DE anyway, so he doesn't have to be fast, but he is Quick as hell. He gets off the ball in a heartbeat. He might be quicker than Barnes, but barnes is obviosly faster.[/quote]

Kruger isnt a lock to play DE, sure he was drafted probably with an eye to play there but then again JJ was drafted to play DT, and to say WRs wont get behind our corners because theyre fast is just wrong.

[BleedPurple92]

[quote name='BloodRaven' post='193493' date='May 17 2009, 07:39 PM']Kruger isnt a lock to play DE, sure he was drafted probably with an eye to play there but then again JJ was drafted to play DT, and to say WRs wont get behind our corners because theyre fast is just wrong.[/quote]

One on one situations, no they wont get behind them.

[noy]

I will test this theory by playing as Gooden in Madden.


I only have 6 sacks so far. His rating is a 74!!!