A Few Possible Gems/upgrades Within Our Own Depth Chart?

[Ozzsome]

[quote name='Sizzle' post='178711' date='Apr 9 2009, 11:11 PM']Justin Harper was the 3rd or 4th reciever at Virginia what make you think he will be any good in the nfl?[/quote]
because he had more catches and yards than eddie royal and josh morgan in his senior year, and in his junior year he was nearly as good as both

[rastaman831226]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' post='178631' date='Apr 9 2009, 11:41 AM']i will be wacthing martin and Harper this preseason, but i would also like to add a name to your list. Good list by the way.

The guy i would like to see is Edgar Jones. I think with the signing of L.J Smith Jones will be able to move back to his nautral position. Jones is a great Special Teamer and showed the ablity to hold the edge on the run in limited snap on defense last year.

He is a guy much like Suggs that can put his hands in the dirt or rush from that OLB position. Jones is big/strong and has great athleticism as show by his ablity to play TE.

If given the chance i think he could have a huge impact on the defense this year. He like to use his power and strength to pass rush as opposed to his speed and moves. I think being able to stay at one position will help, but also the fact that he played TE will only help when it comes to dropping back into coverage.

I think Jarret Johnson will be up for FA soon and we could have a situation where someone might overpay for him(manly Rex) so i look for the Ravens to allow some of these young OLB to show and prove this training camp.[/quote]


Gotta agree with you on Edgar Jones. This guy is a big time find for Ozzie. Last year, he was listed as TE, but played NT, DT, DE, OLB and threw some big blocks and had some big tackles on ST's. Will never forget his laid out finger tip catch of a Troy Smith rifle shot during "clean up time" at the end of the Miami game. Few WR's could have pulled that one off much less a guy weighing in at near 270 pounds. It took a few years before the Ravens found a niche for A.D., I suspect the same will apply to Jones until Mattison realizes Jones may be the new X factor in the Ravens defensive schemes this coming season.

[hallmark]

[quote name='rastaman831226' post='179416' date='Apr 12 2009, 11:14 AM']Whatta load. When I look at Troy Smith, I see arm, legs, all the intangibles, warrior atitude, and most important, winning background. When I look at early McNabb, McNair, Cunningham, Starbauch, Montana, Vick, Young, and Culpepper, I see QB's who manufactured positive yards and carried whole offenses that lacked receivers who could not get separation. When I look at early Aikman, Fauvre, Meredith, Carr, Bradshaw, and Smith, I see pocket QB's in poor offenses who could only manufacture fumbles, sacks, INT's and lost downs by throwing away the football because they lacked receivers who could get separation. Montana wasn't Montana, Cunningham wasn't Cunningham, Starbauch wasn't Starbauch, Young wasn't Young, and McNair wasn't McNair until their perspective teams acquired either (A) go to receivers or ( installed offenses that took advantage of their particular talents. For Cunningham, Bradshaw and Culpepper, it was the development of the top flight receiving corps. For Starbauch, it was the installation of the moving pocket to take advantage of his ability to throw on the run. For Young and Montana, it was the installation of the west coast offense and it's elite receiving corps to take advantage of their quick read/short passing skills. Truth be told, none of us has any idea what Troy Smith will accomplish as a starting QB, he's not run an NFL offense for 4 quarters yet. But this we do know, Rex likes him, the team likes him and apparently Cam and Harbaugh like him as they've tried hard to put him on the field in one capacity or other. And who knows, with an inventive and forward thinking mind like Cam Cameron as the Ravens' O coach, what the world of football will have to face with a talented and driven Troy Smith as starting QB should Flacco go down to injury or suffer the dreaded sophmore jinx.[/quote]

So a quarterback needs players around him to excel?? Fascinating.

When I read all of these spastic defenses of Hall of Famer Troy Smith all over this board, I can't help but think that more is going on your heads than a truly objective evaluation of the methods NFL teams use to judge quarterbacks. What is your deal? Is there something that makes you believe that Flacco is less talented and driven? Is there something that makes you all believe that the other starting quarterbacks in the NFL depth chart don't have similar intangible traits to Troy Smith? What is your evidence for this?

I like Troy Smith. Heck of an insteresting QB to have on the squad that I love. In fact, I'd say the fact that his potential is such a hot topic is one of the reasons I like our situation at QB so much. But a guy not getting a chance to start is MORE of a reason to believe he doesn't have what it takes to break through, not less. I mean, you'd have to have brain damage not to understand that, right? I feel like some people around here always want to see The Other Guy start regardless of what happens on the field and regardless of what the EXPERTS WHO GET PAID TO EVALUATE TALENT decide.

I wonder, will you root against Flacco so you can say "I told you so"? Every time Troy gets in for a gimmick play and they get a first down, will you misinterpret that as an indication that he can go 30-40 w/ 325 yards & 3TDs all the time? No doubt these thoughts will cross your minds. They clearly have already.

Take a break from Madden once in a while. I promise you will see NFL Football much more clearly.


McClain and Barnes are my picks. If they don't break through and become more versatile back-pedaling, the short passing game will eat us alive even moreso next year.

[rastaman831226]

[quote name='hallmark' post='179442' date='Apr 12 2009, 03:46 PM']So a quarterback needs players around him to excel?? Fascinating.

When I read all of these spastic defenses of Hall of Famer Troy Smith all over this board, I can't help but think that more is going on your heads than a truly objective evaluation of the methods NFL teams use to judge quarterbacks. What is your deal? Is there something that makes you believe that Flacco is less talented and driven? Is there something that makes you all believe that the other starting quarterbacks in the NFL depth chart don't have similar intangible traits to Troy Smith? What is your evidence for this?

I like Troy Smith. Heck of an insteresting QB to have on the squad that I love. In fact, I'd say the fact that his potential is such a hot topic is one of the reasons I like our situation at QB so much. But a guy not getting a chance to start is MORE of a reason to believe he doesn't have what it takes to break through, not less. I mean, you'd have to have brain damage not to understand that, right? I feel like some people around here always want to see The Other Guy start regardless of what happens on the field and regardless of what the EXPERTS WHO GET PAID TO EVALUATE TALENT decide.

I wonder, will you root against Flacco so you can say "I told you so"? Every time Troy gets in for a gimmick play and they get a first down, will you misinterpret that as an indication that he can go 30-40 w/ 325 yards & 3TDs all the time? No doubt these thoughts will cross your minds. They clearly have already.

Take a break from Madden once in a while. I promise you will see NFL Football much more clearly.


McClain and Barnes are my picks. If they don't break through and become more versatile back-pedaling, the short passing game will eat us alive even moreso next year.




Please tell me what you're smokimg. My last post was not an indictment of either Troy Smith or Joe Flacco, it was merely a response to some disinformation spewed by the Franchise. Learn to read and even more important , learn to comprehend. Try starting at "Truth be told...." at my last posting. Less emotion and reaction and more thinking about what what said would serve you far better.[/quote]

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='rastaman831226' post='179416' date='Apr 12 2009, 12:14 PM']Whatta load. When I look at Troy Smith, I see arm, legs, all the intangibles, warrior atitude, and most important, winning background.[/quote]
You know who else I saw that in? Andre Ware. What happened to him again?...

My point is, a lot of what people have seen in Troy Smith is based on hyperbole and assumption. As you yourself stated, none of us have seen enough of Troy Smith as a starting QB in the NFL to say whether or not he is really starter-quality. But, the NFL is a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately league; Smith didn't seize the starting job in training camp, and he didn't seize the starting job in preseason before he got sick. Opportunities come and go, but the great ones are the ones that take any lucky break they can get and run with it. Smith simply hasn't done that yet.

Will he do that eventually? Maybe. But my argument stands that there has yet to be a scrambling QB since Steve Young to win a Super Bowl -- and Young didn't even do so until he became a pocket passer. It's not that there isn't room for an elusive QB in this league (look at Ben Roethlisberger's success), but scrambling QBs and elusive QBs are not one-in-the-same. When a QB has a tendency to run almost as much as he passes (if not more), that indicates a lack of patience and/or a flaw in the gameplan. And eventually, those runs catch up to a QB. If said QB does not learn to develop his passing skills, age or injuries will eventually catch up to him and he will neither be able to run nor pass at a level worthy enough of starting in the NFL.

[rastaman831226]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' post='179542' date='Apr 12 2009, 10:42 PM']You know who else I saw that in? Andre Ware. What happened to him again?...

My point is, a lot of what people have seen in Troy Smith is based on hyperbole and assumption. As you yourself stated, none of us have seen enough of Troy Smith as a starting QB in the NFL to say whether or not he is really starter-quality. But, the NFL is a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately league; Smith didn't seize the starting job in training camp, and he didn't seize the starting job in preseason before he got sick. Opportunities come and go, but the great ones are the ones that take any lucky break they can get and run with it. Smith simply hasn't done that yet.

Will he do that eventually? Maybe. But my argument stands that there has yet to be a scrambling QB since Steve Young to win a Super Bowl -- and Young didn't even do so until he became a pocket passer. It's not that there isn't room for an elusive QB in this league (look at Ben Roethlisberger's success), but scrambling QBs and elusive QBs are not one-in-the-same. When a QB has a tendency to run almost as much as he passes (if not more), that indicates a lack of patience and/or a flaw in the gameplan. And eventually, those runs catch up to a QB. If said QB does not learn to develop his passing skills, age or injuries will eventually catch up to him and he will neither be able to run nor pass at a level worthy enough of starting in the NFL.[/quote]
Again, unsound argument based on 3 really bad assumptions and a little more disinformation. A. Andre Ware = Troy. Smith is no more Ware than Kyle Boller is Drew Brees. B. Troy Smith is strictly a run first QB- absolutely an untruth based on his NFL play thus far. And besides, there is no such thing as a run first QB in the NFL, that's merely hyperbole by dated media types for the uninformed fan. C. Only pocket passers are winners in the NFL. Starbauch, Culpepper, Vick, Young, Montana and Cunningham blow that argument out of the water. As to your latest round of disinformation, it should be pointed out that neither Smith or Flacco seized the QB position. The true history is as follows, Kyle Boller started the first two exhibition games, Troy Smith was named starter for the all important final two games before the official season opening game. Joe Flacco was named starter by default due to an injury to Kyle Boller and the unexpected severe illness to Troy Smith. Once again, since we have not seen what Troy Smith can do under center and in a Cam Cameron offense, your entire argument is based on bad assumption, disinformation and a bad recall of recent Raven history.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='rastaman831226' post='179553' date='Apr 13 2009, 12:59 AM']Troy Smith is strictly a run first QB- absolutely an untruth based on his NFL play thus far. And besides, there is no such thing as a run first QB in the NFL, that's merely hyperbole by dated media types for the uninformed fan.[/quote]
When there's a QB who rushes for 1000 yards in a season by running 123 times over 16 games for an average of nearly [u]8[/u] runs per game, you try telling me there's no such thing as a run-first QB in the NFL.

[quote name='rastaman831226' post='179553' date='Apr 13 2009, 12:59 AM']Only pocket passers are winners in the NFL. Starbauch, Culpepper, Vick, Young, Montana and Cunningham blow that argument out of the water.[/quote]
How do Culpepper, Vick, or Cunningham blow the argument out of the water if they've never won a Super Bowl? Isn't success measured partly by Super Bowl wins? Joe Montana shouldn't even have been grouped into that category of scrambling QBs that you just listed, and Roger Staubach was a balanced-style QB rather than a scrambler, as his 22,000 passing yards and 150+ passing TDs stacked against his 2,000 rushing yards and 20 rushing TDs will allude to.

I'm not sure if you can even consider Culpepper and Vick "winners" if they're out of the league and have failed to take their teams consistently to the playoffs.

[quote name='rastaman831226' post='179553' date='Apr 13 2009, 12:59 AM']Once again, since we have not seen what Troy Smith can do under center and in a Cam Cameron offense, your entire argument is based on bad assumption, disinformation and a bad recall of recent Raven history.[/quote]
But logic dictates that, if Troy Smith really "deserved" to be the starting QB, he would've seized the job before preseason, and would've performed well in preseason when he was under center [i]before[/i] he got sick. You say all of these things about intangibles and warrior attitude and his arm and legs, but where was all that when the pressure was on and the spotlight was on him and he was asked to perform? And again, this was BEFORE he got sick.

_____________________________________________________________________

Bottom line, I still don't understand what it is about Troy Smith that has people convinced that he's the next savior of an NFL franchise and could've easily started over Joe Flacco. I know this isn't a Joe vs. Troy debate, but it's sounding more and more like some people (not you, personally) just want Troy Smith to start and do well (especially for the Ravens) just so they can say they were right about him all along. But my angle is, does it really matter???

The guy played well in college. OK, cool. The kid won a Heisman. OK, good for him. He was drafted by the Ravens. OK, even better. He was benched because he got sick and couldn't play. OK, fine. He got a raw deal. Alright, that's perfectly fine too. But that doesn't mean that he is owed anything.

My other gripe is the height issue. I know a lot of people will say that he was overlooked because of his stature, but let's be serious: the personnel departments throughout the league are comprised of professionals who have done their jobs for decades and mostly done their jobs WELL. They're not likely to overlook a player because of something stupid like his size, for a position where size is not nearly as crucial. If they were talking about a lineman, then OK, size would matter. But running back? Linebacker? Receiver? There are plenty of guys who are "undersized" that have been drafted (even with high draft picks) that you certainly can't say were all overlooked.

/rant

[BloodRaven]

Agree to disagree. Nobody is saying Troy is a sure thing, but to say he doesnt have franchize potential is wrong.

Basically what I wanted to say is we have depth with potential and upside, and we need to find out what our guys can do.

[rastaman831226]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' post='179558' date='Apr 13 2009, 12:33 AM']When there's a QB who rushes for 1000 yards in a season by running 123 times over 16 games for an average of nearly [u]8[/u] runs per game, you try telling me there's no such thing as a run-first QB in the NFL.


How do Culpepper, Vick, or Cunningham blow the argument out of the water if they've never won a Super Bowl? Isn't success measured partly by Super Bowl wins? Joe Montana shouldn't even have been grouped into that category of scrambling QBs that you just listed, and Roger Staubach was a balanced-style QB rather than a scrambler, as his 22,000 passing yards and 150+ passing TDs stacked against his 2,000 rushing yards and 20 rushing TDs will allude to.

I'm not sure if you can even consider Culpepper and Vick "winners" if they're out of the league and have failed to take their teams consistently to the playoffs.


But logic dictates that, if Troy Smith really "deserved" to be the starting QB, he would've seized the job before preseason, and would've performed well in preseason when he was under center [i]before[/i] he got sick. You say all of these things about intangibles and warrior attitude and his arm and legs, but where was all that when the pressure was on and the spotlight was on him and he was asked to perform? And again, this was BEFORE he got sick.

_____________________________________________________________________

Bottom line, I still don't understand what it is about Troy Smith that has people convinced that he's the next savior of an NFL franchise and could've easily started over Joe Flacco. I know this isn't a Joe vs. Troy debate, but it's sounding more and more like some people (not you, personally) just want Troy Smith to start and do well (especially for the Ravens) just so they can say they were right about him all along. But my angle is, does it really matter???

The guy played well in college. OK, cool. The kid won a Heisman. OK, good for him. He was drafted by the Ravens. OK, even better. He was benched because he got sick and couldn't play. OK, fine. He got a raw deal. Alright, that's perfectly fine too. But that doesn't mean that he is owed anything.

My other gripe is the height issue. I know a lot of people will say that he was overlooked because of his stature, but let's be serious: the personnel departments throughout the league are comprised of professionals who have done their jobs for decades and mostly done their jobs WELL. They're not likely to overlook a player because of something stupid like his size, for a position where size is not nearly as crucial. If they were talking about a lineman, then OK, size would matter. But running back? Linebacker? Receiver? There are plenty of guys who are "undersized" that have been drafted (even with high draft picks) that you certainly can't say were all overlooked.

/rant[/quote]
Even more swiss cheese in your argument. 1,000 yards? 123 carries? Just who are we talking about here? It certainly can't be Troy Smith, the subject at hand, he's hasn't started an NFL game. You must have erroneously assumed that Troy Smith somehow magically morphed into Micheal Vick. Isn't this the same error you made by trying to morph Troy Smith into Andre Ware? Again, Troy Smith is not Micheal Vick nor Vince Young nor Andre Ware any more than Kyle Boller is Brett Fauvre, Jay Cutler, or even Shaun Hill. Not a solid argument. Superbowl wins define a winning QB? Forgive me but I thought winning percentage did that. By your pretzel logic, Trent Dilfer will make the HOF. Another unsound argument. Again with the "sieze the opportunity" buzzwords? Let's again revisit real history as opposed to your wishful thinking. (A) Kyle Boller starts the first 2 exhibition games ( Ravens' coaches, apparently unimpressed with the lack of progress with Kyle Boller, name Troy Smith the starting QB for the next two most important exhibition games prior to opening the regular season. © Troy Smith gets staph infection that keeps him off the field and out of the lockeroom for the next 6 games. © Joe Flacco is named the starting Ravens QB by default. "Seizing the opportunity" is a figment of a bloated imagination.


None of us knows how Troy Smith would fare as a starting QB in a Cam Cameron offense. And anyone who says they can is simply guilty of prejudgement.

[Played]

QBs: As much as it would be nice to see what Troy Smith could do for the Ravens I honestly hope we never will. Cause seeing Troy on the field, except for preseason and the occasional snap, would mean that Flacco had either fallen to the dreaded sophmore slump or an injury. Although only starting his 2nd year Flacco has shown that he can win and hopefully he will continue to do so...
I wouldn't be to surprised to see a draft day trade of Troy Smith for a couple of draft picks, maybe a 3rd and a 5th (trying to keep it realistic). Let's face it, troy isn't a proven NFL QB no matter what any says that is a stone cold fact. And it would be a move worthy of the Wizard of Oz to trade a (maybe) hyped up unproven player for a couple of picks to further our depth. In my mind the signing of Bouman signalled this, we got Flacco that the team puts it trust in and Bouman is their to bring him along and would be ready to step in if smaller injury where to happen. It would be easy to bring a long a rookie QB in that environment and foster him in to backup role.

WRs: As of right now we've got 4 receivers 25 years or younger on our roster ( Marcus Maxwell, Ernie Wheelright, Marcus Smith and Justin Harper) of these four Ernie and Justin seems the most likely to have a chance at the third and fourth receiver spot. Although we can't forget about Demetrius, at the age of 26 he still has a lot of upside if he can stay healthy he will probably take the 3rd receiving spot. The 4th spot will be a TC battle between Ernie, Justin and Yamon.
If Yamon doesn't come out the winner of that battle I predict he will be cut before the end of preseason.

TEs: Scott Kuhn has shown that he can block and he's a big target. If Heap isn't able to get back to his old self Kuhn will get the opportunity to show his worth during TC and preseason.

RBs/FBs: I cant wait to see what little Ray will do in TC, he only showed flashes of what he's capable of last season and with a full off season conditioning program under his belt he should be ready to go. McClain might be forced to move back to the fullback spot for the start of the season until we can bring up a rookie to speed. But his size should allow him to do some blocking and pick up a couple of carries as well, so I'm not exactly worried about his production. For the rest of the backfield P.J. Daniels probably won't be back this year and that leaves us with Jalen Parmele and Matt Lawrence competing for a possible fourth spot. We either draft a RB or a FB late second day and go to the undrafted pool to pick up the position we didn't draft

OL: Gaither, Grubbs and Birk should be given in this years starting lineup (baring injuries). It will be interesting to follow up if Cousins or Hale can challenge Yanda and Anderson and take their spots from them. With a deep centerclass this year we will probably swing for a center in the 3rd or 4th round for Birk to bring along to be ready to take over in a year or two.

DL: Lamar Divens still remains to be signed. But he has shown a lot of upside and hopefully will continue to develop during OTA's and TC.

LBs: At the LB position we have several good prospects that showed promise last year. Barnes, McClain and Burgess all showed that they are ready for more responsibility but they have to take a couple of more steps forward to be considered as every down options. Gooden showed some progress but got injured far to early to tell where it's gone lead to. Jones was moved around last year but he could be a viable option on the outside.

CB's: Apart from our "new" additions to the CB crop we've to FA's that could be worth bringing back in Derrick Martin and Anwar Phillips. I could see both improving their game and contend for the nickel spot with Rolle and Walker.

S's: Both Zbikowski and Nakamura has great upside yet and if they continue to develop we should have great depth a the safety position. Although if Landry comes back and plays as he played before the injury I don't see either of our young prospects stepping into a starting role this year.

K's: The Wizard has said that we will bring in another kicker to contend with Hauschka. If that is Stover, a FA or through draft remains to be seen. Hauschka wasn't great last year and needs to improve in lots of areas before I would be comfortable with him as lone kicker on the roster but it seems we are ready to give him a chance to do that.

[RavensIQ]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' post='179558' date='Apr 13 2009, 01:33 AM']When there's a QB who rushes for 1000 yards in a season by running 123 times over 16 games for an average of nearly [u]8[/u] runs per game, you try telling me there's no such thing as a run-first QB in the NFL.

/rant[/quote]


Franchise you make a lot of sense, but would you consider Steve young a run 1st QB?

722 rushing attempts for 4,239 yards.

Arguably the best rushing QB in NFL history. (People, notice the word "arguably" b4 you speak your mind)

[markorad]

Zbi and Barnes will have huge years and I can see both in the starting line-up by midseason

[hallmark]

[quote name='rastaman831226' post='179632' date='Apr 13 2009, 11:12 AM']Even more swiss cheese in your argument. 1,000 yards? 123 carries? Just who are we talking about here? It certainly can't be Troy Smith, the subject at hand, he's hasn't started an NFL game.[/quote]
Troy Smith started in [url="http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=271223026"]Week 16[/url] & [url="http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=271230033"]Week 17[/url] in 2007. Were you lying to somehow strengthen your point or were you just mistaken?
[quote name='rastaman831226' post='179632' date='Apr 13 2009, 11:12 AM']You must have erroneously assumed that Troy Smith somehow magically morphed into Micheal Vick. Isn't this the same error you made by trying to morph Troy Smith into Andre Ware? Again, Troy Smith is not Micheal Vick nor Vince Young nor Andre Ware any more than Kyle Boller is Brett Fauvre, Jay Cutler, or even Shaun Hill. Not a solid argument.[/quote]
Not a solid argument? What argument? When did he talk about magical morphing? You are inventing positions and then arguing against them. Classical lying.
Surely you can see the point he was making by bringing up Andre Ware, right? The point, as I understood it, was that a quarterback winning the Heisman is not a guarantee of anything. Players win all sorts of awards in lesser leagues. All that means is that they were outstanding in the league they won the award in. It doesn't have to mean anything more than that and, in fact, it doesn't mean anything more than that. How many examples do you need of excellent college QBs who failed in the NFL, Heisman winner or not?
Troy Smith may be the second coming. We don't know. What we do know is that if he is the best QB ever, it will be because he does it in the NFL. It will have exactly nothing to do with his Heisman trophy.
[quote name='rastaman831226' post='179632' date='Apr 13 2009, 11:12 AM']Superbowl wins define a winning QB? Forgive me but I thought winning percentage did that. By your pretzel logic, Trent Dilfer will make the HOF. Another unsound argument.[/quote]
Is reading comprehension still taught in schools? When you read the sentence "Isn't success measured partly by Super Bowl wins?", what did you think that it meant? Did it go through your filter and turn into, "Superbowl wins define QBs. A QB must have superbowl wins to be considered HOF worthy." The guy asked a question, he didn't talk in absolutes and he didn't even come close to bringing up the HOF. You are inventing positions and arguing against them. You are a liar.
[quote name='rastaman831226' post='179632' date='Apr 13 2009, 11:12 AM']None of us knows how Troy Smith would fare as a starting QB in a Cam Cameron offense. And anyone who says they can is simply guilty of prejudgement.[/quote]
Again, I haven't seen anyone here claim that they KNOW how Troy Smith would fare as a starter for Cam or anyone else. Who are you chastising? Be specific.
Can you admit that you don't KNOW if he would be awful? Can you admit that there are legitimate reasons teams didn't choose to build their franchises around Smith, including the Ravens?

[rastaman831226]

[quote name='hallmark' post='179809' date='Apr 13 2009, 09:16 PM']Troy Smith started in [url="http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=271223026"]Week 16[/url] & [url="http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=271230033"]Week 17[/url] in 2007. Were you lying to somehow strengthen your point or were you just mistaken?

Not a solid argument? What argument? When did he talk about magical morphing? You are inventing positions and then arguing against them. Classical lying.
Surely you can see the point he was making by bringing up Andre Ware, right? The point, as I understood it, was that a quarterback winning the Heisman is not a guarantee of anything. Players win all sorts of awards in lesser leagues. All that means is that they were outstanding in the league they won the award in. It doesn't have to mean anything more than that and, in fact, it doesn't mean anything more than that. How many examples do you need of excellent college QBs who failed in the NFL, Heisman winner or not?
Troy Smith may be the second coming. We don't know. What we do know is that if he is the best QB ever, it will be because he does it in the NFL. It will have exactly nothing to do with his Heisman trophy.

Is reading comprehension still taught in schools? When you read the sentence "Isn't success measured partly by Super Bowl wins?", what did you think that it meant? Did it go through your filter and turn into, "Superbowl wins define QBs. A QB must have superbowl wins to be considered HOF worthy." The guy asked a question, he didn't talk in absolutes and he didn't even come close to bringing up the HOF. You are inventing positions and arguing against them. You are a liar.

Again, I haven't seen anyone here claim that they KNOW how Troy Smith would fare as a starter for Cam or anyone else. Who are you chastising? Be specific.
Can you admit that you don't KNOW if he would be awful? Can you admit that there are legitimate reasons teams didn't choose to build their franchises around Smith, including the Ravens?[/quote]
Yawn........

[Bullrush]

[quote name='BloodRaven' post='178623' date='Apr 9 2009, 11:22 AM']Heres a few young guys I think have huge potential and if given the chance could make a push to start, or at the very least show what they can do in preseason.


QB Troy Smith < Everyone seems to talk him up, even Rex Ryan. May be more than a backup.

WR Justin Harper < Tall and fast, beasted and looked like a real gem in preseason.

G/T Oniel Cousins < Could give us an upgrade in athleticism at RT and power at RG.

G David Hale < Well I dont know what he can do but at least hes stronger than Chester

NT/DT Lamar Divens < Chargers fans LOVED him. Crushes the pocket.

OLB Antwan Barnes < Has size, elite strength, speed and first step. Not sure if it translates yet.

CB Derrick Martin < Very underrated and most improved DB by far before injury.

SS Haruki Nakamura < Ballhawk, tackling was a bit sloppy.

SS Tom Zbikowski < Returner, big hitter, well balanced. Could push Landry?


Thoughts?[/quote]

QB Troy Smith - Great player, will start for somebody in a couple years i think. But just by listening to the press conferences you can actually hear how happy Ozzie is to have Joe behind center. DeCosta as well. They repeatedly said that it's such a great feeling going into the draft and not worrying about QB anymore, because that's basically what we did for the past 10+ years. And last week Newsome said the same thing again when asked about the Cutler situation, he doesn't care because he's got Joe Flacco.

WR Justin Harper - Haven't really seen him do anything yet, but he's got good size.

OL O'Niel Cousins - Has talent, but i think he's just a backup for the next few years. Swing tackle maybe and backup guard.

OG David Hale - Could become a solid backup. Reminds me of Brian Rimpf.

DT Lamar Divens - Haven't seen him play but i guess he can become a solid backup, the Chargers fans loved him.

OLB Antwan Barnes - Has shown flashes of brilliance, i hope he stays healthy this season. Last season was a waste. Could be a Robert Mathis type player if used right in my opinion. He has made a lot of top tackles look silly.

CB Derrick Martin - Very physical, made some good plays for us, great special teamer. But at best he's our 5th corner behind Foxworth, Washington, Carr, Rolle and Walker. Man i love our depth at CB.

FS Haruki Nakamura - Good in coverage but as long as we have Ed Reed i don't think he'll get an opportunity to start. He's a good blitzer though and a good special teamer. But like you said he needs to work on his tackling. He's physical but he misses a lot of tackles, maybe he's too excited or too aggressive.

SS Tom Zbikowski - Will start next to Reed this season. He's a big hitter who makes plays in coverage and score touchdowns, exactly what we need next to Reed. Plus our new DC Mattison coached him at Notre Dame.