Who/what Should We Draft

[raven43]

just choose one player (not one from both WR and CB) I would like to see what postion you guys think needs to be addressed and which player you think we should do it with. I think all the players listed have legitmate chances of being avaliable. If you think someone I listed won't be avaliable, don't choose him, choose someone who you think will be avaliable. And if you choose other, tell us who you think it should be. thanks

[RoflDogs]

lol, "what" sounds like you are describing an object

[AlaskanRavensFan]

I think we should draft DHB, simply because he has the speed that is needed to demand to a double team.

Nicks ran a 4.63 40 at the combine. I don't think that he is going to give the type of vertical threat that Ozzie and Cam are looking for.

Robiskie and Britt would be good in the second round, but not at 26.

I think we addressed the CB position well enough in FA that we can wait until later in the draft to perhaps draft a player at that position.

[Devastat1on]

With the poll, you cant choose just one choice.. It wouldnt let me.. Put all of the players under the same poll.. And i chose other[Vontae Davis].. I want Vontae in the first and i want us to trade up in the second and take Britt.. Perfect draft for me..

[AlaskanRavensFan]

Mike Mayock on Path to the Draft indicated that Vontae Davis wouldn't be there by 26. But you could be right, and I think it would be a good pick. So you would take Britt over Robiskie in the second if they were both available?

[Devastat1on]

[quote name='AlaskanRavensFan' post='172867' date='Mar 25 2009, 09:09 PM']Mike Mayock on Path to the Draft indicated that Vontae Davis wouldn't be there by 26. But you could be right, and I think it would be a good pick. So you would take Britt over Robiskie in the second if they were both available?[/quote]

Absolutely 100%

Ill take Britt's 87 Rec 1,371 yards and 7 TDs over Robiskie's 42 Rec, 535 yards 8 TDs..

Robiskie in his career hasnt had more than 60 receptions in a season in college and Britt has had 2 seasons of 60+ Rec and the third season he wasnt a starter.. I want the guy on my team whos going to get the most receptions and move the team downfield..

Britts numbers in the second round? Count me in..

[AlaskanRavensFan]

Ya I hear you. Britt ran faster at the combine and he has a little more size than Robiskie (218 to 209). So do you think Britt has better hands, is a better route runner? Cause Robiskie looked pretty good on both of those counts at the Senior Bowl and combine.

Ya, Britt's QB wasn't even on point until a few games into the season anyways. Plus Rutgers guys are usually pretty tough competitive guys. (like Ray Rice) Rice may be able to give Ozzie a player's perspective on him. Although Troy played with Robiskie too. (I think Robiskie was only a Freshman though and didn't see much action.

[Devastat1on]

[quote name='AlaskanRavensFan' post='172872' date='Mar 25 2009, 09:26 PM']Ya I hear you. Britt ran faster at the combine and he has a little more size than Robiskie (218 to 209). So do you think Britt has better hands, is a better route runner? Cause Robiskie looked pretty good on both of those counts at the Senior Bowl and combine.

Ya, Britt's QB wasn't even on point until a few games into the season anyways. Plus Rutgers guys are usually pretty tough competitive guys. (like Ray Rice) Rice may be able to give Ozzie a player's perspective on him. Although Troy played with Robiskie too. (I think Robiskie was only a Freshman though and didn't see much action.[/quote]

I think Robiskie would be the one to make more spectacular catches, but overall, i like Britt's hands.. 87 Receptions speaks for itself ya know? I was reading up on Robiskie yesterday and they say he has to work on selling his fakes and cuts more, but i think hed be fine where he is now.. Robiskie may have done better at the senior bowl, but i look at the whole season.. Last eyar, Britt had NOT ONE game with fewer than 3 receptions.. Robiskie had 6.. Less than 4 Rec, Britt= 1(3 Rec game against Louisville) Robiskie= 10..

Im big on receptions, the more receptions you make, the more chances you get to make a big play.. Even if they're short gains, 2 of them if not 1 equals a first down.. But when you average 16.96 yards per catch, thats more than a first down each reception.. Britt may not be a touchdown machine, but we've got other guys that can do it..

Im not going to jump on the Robiskie bandwagon because of his senior bowl.. Thats pretty much whats happened with Hakeem Nicks.. He had over 200 yards and 3 TD in a bowl game and has the media all over him now.. Ill take Britt over both of them..

[AlaskanRavensFan]

Ya on field production has to be the best indicator. Ya I think the NFL network probably just rode the Robiskie thing because it made for good TV, with his dad being a former player and Falcons coach.

Britt is more consistent it sounds like and is a target. Ya i'm not to big on the combine or the senior bowl either. Anyone can look good for one game or in shorts. In the end the tape will tell the truth.

Britt it is then.

Now what about Vontae Davis, why him over Jenkins, and Butler?

[Ravensfan23]

wow this is the most suppose i have seen for Britt on this board. I have felt like i'm the only one that has wanted Britt to be a Raven for a while.

I have mentioned plenty times before that i think Britt is the prefect fit for the Ravens.

He has good speed for a man his size, he has great body control when going up for passes or going over the middle.

He runs good routes and uses his pyshical nature to fend off defenders. He blocks well in the running game.

He is 6'3 and has a 37" vertical so it will be tough for defenders to make a play on the ball down field(which will result in many PI calls).

I've heard some people question his work ethic, but dropping about 8 pounds from the combine to his pro day shows the kid works hard imo. He improved on his 40 time, but either way he is plenty fast.

The kid got caught smoking weed and failed a drug test. So now many people think he has character issues. However no one really reports how he turned his life around and became a much better teammate. At the point of his one game suspension, Rutgers was in the middle of a bad slide. After that Morgan state game, Britt stepped up and became the leader that Rutgers needed. In that next game he stepped up and caught 12 balls for 151 yards.

He followed that game by producing 100+ yards in 7 out of his last 9 games. By all accounts he worked harder on and off the field to be that leader Rutgers needed. You hear reports about Britt being a diva of a WR, but whenever u read interviews from him, he is always putting his team first.

It seems like kenny Britt had a pretty solid pro day and probably forced himself into the bottom of the 1st round. I get the feeling that it's people that's waiting for Britt to do something to disprove his worth. However the kid just continues to go about his business. There are not many people talking about Britt so i definately think he will be there for the Ravens, some might not like it but he is worth the 26 pick and more imo.

[T-Sizzle55]

[quote name='AlaskanRavensFan' post='172853' date='Mar 25 2009, 08:47 PM']Robiskie and Britt would be good in the second round, but not at 26.

I think we addressed the CB position well enough in FA that we can wait until later in the draft to perhaps draft a player at that position.[/quote]

If we dont draft Britt with our first pick he'll be gone by our 2nd round pick. I trust our scouts and Ozzie more than I trust Mike Mayock and Mel Kiper JR. I bet our rankings list is must different than theirs. We might have Britt behind Crabtree or Maclin. should we trade down just becuas ehe's a projected round 2? I think it would be better financially because 2nd rounders make less than 2st rounders, but you then risk losing him to another team. The Colts, Giants, Titans, Pitt, then in early 2nd round the Rams, Chiefs, Seattle, Bengals could all take WRs and he'll be long gone if we can't get the 2nd or 3rd pick.

I agree with you on the CB position, however Fabian will be a FA next year, so we should try to get an extension done.

[Devastat1on]

[quote name='AlaskanRavensFan' post='172853' date='Mar 25 2009, 08:47 PM']I think we addressed the CB position well enough in FA that we can wait until later in the draft to perhaps draft a player at that position.[/quote]

I disgree.. While Carr may be a great returner, he is by no means the coverage man we need.. Carr has only started 6 games at corner so im not sure if i have trust in him yet.. I would much rather us have Vontae playing than Carr..

[quote name='AlaskanRavensFan' post='172878' date='Mar 25 2009, 09:47 PM']Ya on field production has to be the best indicator. Ya I think the NFL network probably just rode the Robiskie thing because it made for good TV, with his dad being a former player and Falcons coach.

Britt is more consistent it sounds like and is a target. Ya i'm not to big on the combine or the senior bowl either. Anyone can look good for one game or in shorts. In the end the tape will tell the truth.

Britt it is then.

Now what about Vontae Davis, why him over Jenkins, and Butler?[/quote]

Vontae is my favorite corner in the draft.. Hes great in coverage and has above average hands and hes got speed too.. Hes 5'11" with a 4.49 forty, and a 36 inch verticle, but he plays so much better than those numbers show.. They arent bad numbers at all, but i love the way he plays his position.. Hes always aware of whats going on around him and he has a nack for getting the ball..

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='T-Sizzle55' post='172901' date='Mar 26 2009, 12:49 AM']If we dont draft Britt with our first pick he'll be gone by our 2nd round pick. I trust our scouts and Ozzie more than I trust Mike Mayock and Mel Kiper JR. I bet our rankings list is must different than theirs. We might have Britt behind Crabtree or Maclin. should we trade down just becuas ehe's a projected round 2? I think it would be better financially because 2nd rounders make less than 2st rounders, but you then risk losing him to another team. The Colts, Giants, Titans, Pitt, then in early 2nd round the Rams, Chiefs, Seattle, Bengals could all take WRs and he'll be long gone if we can't get the 2nd or 3rd pick.

I agree with you on the CB position, however Fabian will be a FA next year, so we should try to get an extension done.[/quote]

I agree 100% and i think if we want Britt then it will have to be at #26. Back when everyone was pushing Britt down to like the 7th best WR i thougt teams would sleep on him enough to allow us to get him in round 2. However after his solid combine and solid Pro day, i don't think we can risk moving back to wait on Britt.

I'm starting to think we might have to trade up with ATL in front of MIA to get him if we wanted him.

As for Corner i love Alphonso Smith and i don't care about his size. He is the best cover corner in this draft in my opinion. I think his size might just cause him to slip far enough into the 2nd round for us to trade up if we want him.

My perfect draft would be Kenny Britt(1st) Alphonso Smith(2nd) Kyle Moore(3rd) Brandon Tate(5th) Graham Gano(6th). Throw Tony Fiammetta the FB of Syracuse in there some where and i would be more then happy. Now i don't know how realistic it is to come away with all of these guys but i would be more then happy with this draft.

[RavensIQ]

Darius Butler and Alphonzo Smith are the safest 1st round picks of the players you've mentioned. I went with Butler bcuz I think he is the best pure cornerback in this years draft and cornerback is still more of a concern for me than WR. Alphonzo Smith would also be a sweet pick up bcuz he could be the perfect Nickel Back for us who can come in and start right away, but I think he goes way early in the 2nd b4 we even have a shot at him. Needless to say I don't think Alphonzo Smith is worth our 1st round pick.

[raven43]

If we were somehow able to get Butler [b]and[/b] Robiskie I would jump for joy. Corner is our number one need, even with the addition of Foxworth, so I say corner

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='raven43' post='173682' date='Mar 27 2009, 09:41 PM']If we were somehow able to get Butler [b]and[/b] Robiskie I would jump for joy. Corner is our number one need, even with the addition of Foxworth, so I say corner[/quote]

Your biggest need doesn't have to mean ur 1st round pick. A starter can be found anywhere in the draft(although most times they come from the 1st or 2nd rounds).

Picking for need would be a huge mistake for the Ravens. I mean either way they will come out of the first round with a position of "need" if they select a CB or WR. However, i feel there are a lot of CBs in the top 3 rounds that could come in and compete for the nickleback spot on D. However i don't think there are many WRs in this draft that u could feel would be a great fit or #1 type guy for the Ravens.

Now this is all just my opinion, but if we don't come away with a guy like A. Smith, D. Butler, or D. Moore. You would still have some quality CBs avaliable like, S. Smith, J. Byrd, K. Barnes, D. Johnson and K. Lewis. Now these guys didn't really have the same type of college career as the top tier guys but they could and probably would have alot of success in the Ravens defense.

While on the other hand. If the Ravens passed on a guy at WR that they thought could be a #1 WR, like Britt, Nicks, or even Robiskie, then the next level of WR doesn't come close imo. Guys like Juaquin Iglesias, Derrick Williams, Louis Murphy, and Mohamed Massaquoi while good in there own right, doesn't really fit that #1 type WR that i think the Ravens are lookin for.

So while many feel that CB is still our biggest need, this draft is filled with guys that can cover, but i don't think it's filled with guys that can be that #1 WR i feel the Ravens want/need. So if u have the opportunity to pull the trigger on the WR u like in round 1, you do it, because when u compare need and value, to just need, the guy that gives u the value will outwiegh all. IMO

[raven43]

I get what you saying, but what I mean is that it would be a great value. We would get a first round corner as well as very good reciever. Both great players and needs. If we were to take a reciever first round (like Heyward Bey) maybe he's good, maybe he's bad, but there is a greater risk, [b]plus[/b] we get a lower quality corner in the second. C'mon, you know Butler and Robiskie looks better than Heyward-Bey and Francis.

This is all barring Rey Maualuga isn't avalaible, cuz I still say if he's there we should snatch him ( sorry Mr. gooden )

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='raven43' post='173737' date='Mar 28 2009, 01:58 AM']I get what you saying, but what I mean is that it would be a great value. We would get a first round corner as well as very good reciever. Both great players and needs. If we were to take a reciever first round (like Heyward Bey) maybe he's good, maybe he's bad, but there is a greater risk, [b]plus[/b] we get a lower quality corner in the second. C'mon, you know Butler and Robiskie looks better than Heyward-Bey and Francis.

This is all barring Rey Maualuga isn't avalaible, cuz I still say if he's there we should snatch him ( sorry Mr. gooden )[/quote]

while i agree that Butler/Robiskie would look a lot better then Heyward-Bey/Francis(even tho i don't like any combo with DHB), the sexy draft is not always the best draft. Think back to last year with KC, they had one of the best drafts on paper, but on the field it was just average.

All i'm saying is don't just think about names. Yes the names of Butler Robiskie sound great, but the production of Britt/A. Smith(ok thats the prefect draft for me) or Nicks/Barnes, or Britt/Byrd.

I agree with what u are saying, i just think the combination of us not being as press for CBs now after FA and the quality depth in this draft at CB, would allow us to pass on a guy like Bulter or DJ Moore.

However because we are still lookin for that #1 WR and IF the Ravens feel that guy is avaliable he would be hard to pass up @26(unless we trade back a few spot). I believe that u can pass up on a guy like Bulter and still be confidence that bringing in a guy like Byrd would still at quality depth to a secondary with Washington/Foxworth/Landry/Reed. Where as if u pass on guys like Britt or Nicks, i don't think u will feel as confident adding that next level of WR to a crop of Clayton/Williams/Smith/Figurs/Harper.

I just think that there is great depth at CB for what the Ravens will be lookin for. I don't think we are trying to come away from this draft with a CB that can start game one. Just a guy that can be a solid nickleback and this draft is full of those guys imo.

On the flip side i think the Ravens definately want to come from this draft with a WR that can step into the lineup and produce, maybe not right away but soon. I think the Ravens wanna come away with a WR that they feel is a STUD. I think there are some quality WR late in the draft but much like Flacco/Ryan last year, there is a huge difference between STUD and QUALITY depth.

When it comes to the Ravens this year. I think there are tons of quality CBs avaliable, but there are not as many potential STUD WRs

[RavensIQ]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' post='173845' date='Mar 28 2009, 01:00 PM']while i agree that Butler/Robiskie would look a lot better then Heyward-Bey/Francis(even tho i don't like any combo with DHB), the sexy draft is not always the best draft. Think back to last year with KC, they had one of the best drafts on paper, but on the field it was just average.

All i'm saying is don't just think about names. Yes the names of Butler Robiskie sound great, but the production of Britt/A. Smith(ok thats the prefect draft for me) or Nicks/Barnes, or Britt/Byrd.

I agree with what u are saying, i just think the combination of us not being as press for CBs now after FA and the quality depth in this draft at CB, would allow us to pass on a guy like Bulter or DJ Moore.

However because we are still lookin for that #1 WR and IF the Ravens feel that guy is avaliable he would be hard to pass up @26(unless we trade back a few spot). I believe that u can pass up on a guy like Bulter and still be confidence that bringing in a guy like Byrd would still at quality depth to a secondary with Washington/Foxworth/Landry/Reed. Where as if u pass on guys like Britt or Nicks, i don't think u will feel as confident adding that next level of WR to a crop of Clayton/Williams/Smith/Figurs/Harper.

I just think that there is great depth at CB for what the Ravens will be lookin for. I don't think we are trying to come away from this draft with a CB that can start game one. Just a guy that can be a solid nickleback and this draft is full of those guys imo.

On the flip side i think the Ravens definately want to come from this draft with a WR that can step into the lineup and produce, maybe not right away but soon. I think the Ravens wanna come away with a WR that they feel is a STUD. I think there are some quality WR late in the draft but much like Flacco/Ryan last year, there is a huge difference between STUD and QUALITY depth.

When it comes to the Ravens this year. I think there are tons of quality CBs avaliable, but there are not as many potential STUD WRs[/quote]

You're forgetting that Ozzie will draft the BEST player available. [b]NO[/b] Wide Receiver @ 26 will be the best player available except for Jeremy Maclin and Michael Crabtree.

I said draft Darius Butler bcuz I think he will be one of the BEST players available when we select, if not THE Best. I think if it comes down to selecting a top cornerback who is highly-rated or a WR like Britt, DHB, Nicks, the CB will get drafted bcuz it is a bigger need.

We only have 5 CBs on our roster (as of now) that I feel comfortable with.

1.) Foxworth
2.) Washington
3.) Walker
4.) Carr
5.) Martin
(We re-signed Ogelsby but that's really nothing to get excited about)

Out of those 5, only 2 are "starter" material. That has to be a big concern for our FO bcuz if one of those 2 go down we're now in a serious predicament. What happens if both go down? For example..How much better would our #2 ranked pass defense have been last season if both C'Mac and Rolle were healthy for the entire year? Would we have made it to the Superbowl? Would we have shutdown Santonio Holmes and Hines Ward?

I know Baltimore has lacked a true #1 WR since...ALWAYS, but you can't prioritize WR over CB at this point bcuz we already have a lot of WRs on our roster with a lot of potential. How many times do you see the Ravens with 3 CBs on the field? Now how many times do you see the Ravens with 3 or more WRs on the field... ?

Obviously the Ravens utilize the CB position a lot more than they do the WR position, so why not invest in one of our most important positions with quality? (which you'll find in a 1st round CB)

If it just so happens that a CB is the best player available @ 26 (Butler, Davis, maybe both Smiths) then I don't think it's us picking "need" over anything else. It's just us selecting the best talent.

Ozzie has been on record numerous times saying DTs, QBs, and CBs are the premier positions in the 1st round that you HAVE to look at first, over everything else.

Again, I know DHB, Nicks, and Britt might be some of the best WRs available in this years class, but it doesn't mean they are 1st round prospects.

Since 2006 only 7 WRs have been drafted in the 1st round. 7 out of 96 players...To put that into perspective, here are the number of players drafted in the 1st round at each position over the last 3 years:


DB-20
DL-18
OL-17
LB-12
RB-11
QB-7
[b]WR-7[/b]
TE-4

Don't let the obsession of wanting a big WR for Flacco (that will take several years to develop b4 he will finally be effective) outweigh the need of making our entire "team" better right now.

DHB or Nicks or Britt are not going to come onto the pro level in their first season and light it up. Their not gonna torch NFL CBs/Defenses like they did in college. It's going to take awhile. We draft DHB/Nicks/Britt now, he might be ready to start in 2 years...you guys should think about that b4 u go getting your panties wet. At least with CB/DL they will have a decent shot at seeing significant playing time next year.


We're not gearing up for a Super Bowl run (re-signing Lewis (33), signing Birk (32), possibly Torry Holt (32), Pryce (33), Mason (35), looking at Orlando Pace (33), Kelly Gregg (32), Ed Reed (30) looking at Bobby Ingram (36) ect, ect..), just to have our 1st round rookie sit the bench for most of the season; which will happen if we draft a WR.

[raven43]

RavensIQ, makes the best points...

to say that you aren't comfortable with our recievers, or at least less comfortable than you are with our corners, is strange because we made it to the AFC championship game with those recievers. the only one that missed games due to injury was Demetrius Williams, and he is returning next year, so the corps. will be the same as last year. So yeah, they could use and improvement, but it's not really a pressing need, and there most defenitely will not be a sure fire first round WR left anyway.

In contrast the secondary lost Chris Mcalister, Samari Rolle, Jim Leonhard, and Cory Ivy. All those guys contriubuted in some form or fashion last year. unlike the receiving corps, FA made our secondary depleted. To try and patch things up we're going to bring in a #2 corner to go along with the one we already have and a return specialist? that doesn't sound all too hot to me. And if we were to draft a butler, it would all work out, becaue hes the BPA and a need.

[flynismo]

[quote name='AlaskanRavensFan' post='172853' date='Mar 25 2009, 08:47 PM']I think we should draft DHB, simply because he has the speed that is needed to demand to a double team.

Nicks ran a 4.63 40 at the combine. I don't think that he is going to give the type of vertical threat that Ozzie and Cam are looking for.

Robiskie and Britt would be good in the second round, but not at 26.

I think we addressed the CB position well enough in FA that we can wait until later in the draft to perhaps draft a player at that position.[/quote]


Teams don't double cover speed, they double up against talent. Otherwise I'd just say forget drafting any wr and start Figurs and Clayton.
I'm not necessarily saying DHB doesn't have potential, but I just haven't seen enough reason yet to be confident that he's starting material in the NFL. Nicks and Britt on the other hand, they appear to be legit, and dangerous enough to be one of the focal points of the opposing defenses.

[Ed_Reed20]

Robiskie seems like the safest option because he is so solid but Nicks and Britt have the talent to be game-breakers in the NFL. I think they should go with whichever one is available.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='RavensIQ' post='173861' date='Mar 28 2009, 02:42 PM']You're forgetting that Ozzie will draft the BEST player available. [b]NO[/b] Wide Receiver @ 26 will be the best player available except for Jeremy Maclin and Michael Crabtree.

I said draft Darius Butler bcuz I think he will be one of the BEST players available when we select, if not THE Best. I think if it comes down to selecting a top cornerback who is highly-rated or a WR like Britt, DHB, Nicks, the CB will get drafted bcuz it is a bigger need.

We only have 5 CBs on our roster (as of now) that I feel comfortable with.

1.) Foxworth
2.) Washington
3.) Walker
4.) Carr
5.) Martin
(We re-signed Ogelsby but that's really nothing to get excited about)

Out of those 5, only 2 are "starter" material. That has to be a big concern for our FO bcuz if one of those 2 go down we're now in a serious predicament. What happens if both go down? For example..How much better would our #2 ranked pass defense have been last season if both C'Mac and Rolle were healthy for the entire year? Would we have made it to the Superbowl? Would we have shutdown Santonio Holmes and Hines Ward?

I know Baltimore has lacked a true #1 WR since...ALWAYS, but you can't prioritize WR over CB at this point bcuz we already have a lot of WRs on our roster with a lot of potential. How many times do you see the Ravens with 3 CBs on the field? Now how many times do you see the Ravens with 3 or more WRs on the field... ?

Obviously the Ravens utilize the CB position a lot more than they do the WR position, so why not invest in one of our most important positions with quality? (which you'll find in a 1st round CB)

If it just so happens that a CB is the best player available @ 26 (Butler, Davis, maybe both Smiths) then I don't think it's us picking "need" over anything else. It's just us selecting the best talent.

Ozzie has been on record numerous times saying DTs, QBs, and CBs are the premier positions in the 1st round that you HAVE to look at first, over everything else.

Again, I know DHB, Nicks, and Britt might be some of the best WRs available in this years class, but it doesn't mean they are 1st round prospects.

Since 2006 only 7 WRs have been drafted in the 1st round. 7 out of 96 players...To put that into perspective, here are the number of players drafted in the 1st round at each position over the last 3 years:


DB-20
DL-18
OL-17
LB-12
RB-11
QB-7
[b]WR-7[/b]
TE-4

Don't let the obsession of wanting a big WR for Flacco (that will take several years to develop b4 he will finally be effective) outweigh the need of making our entire "team" better right now.

DHB or Nicks or Britt are not going to come onto the pro level in their first season and light it up. Their not gonna torch NFL CBs/Defenses like they did in college. It's going to take awhile. We draft DHB/Nicks/Britt now, he might be ready to start in 2 years...you guys should think about that b4 u go getting your panties wet. At least with CB/DL they will have a decent shot at seeing significant playing time next year.


We're not gearing up for a Super Bowl run (re-signing Lewis (33), signing Birk (32), possibly Torry Holt (32), Pryce (33), Mason (35), looking at Orlando Pace (33), Kelly Gregg (32), Ed Reed (30) looking at Bobby Ingram (36) ect, ect..), just to have our 1st round rookie sit the bench for most of the season; which will happen if we draft a WR.[/quote]


U make good points, but the problem is, you say there is not WR that will be the best avaliable at 26 and that is a personal opinion, and ur personal opinion is not the same as Ozzie's. You are assuming that guys the likes of Bulter, Smiths(2) and Moore are viewed as 1st round players to us.That best player avaliable thing is cool, but at some point u have to pick for need. You just gotta make sure u don't overvalue that position of need and take a lesser player. That best player avaliable is predicated on a teams need or value. So any player taken will be either of need or value for the team.

For example: If Josh Freeman is viewed by everyone to be the best player avaliable, the Ravens won't select just because of it. Because they feel Flacco is the franchise QB Freeman won't even be on the Ravens draft board. So we wouldn't [b]need[/b] a QB but him being the [b]best player avaliable[/b] doen't mean he will be wearing a Ravens uniform.

Another example. A couple of years ago when we selected Ben Grubbs. Many people had Justin Blalock, Tony Ugoh, Arron Sears, and Ryan Kahlil rated just as high if not higher then Grubbs. However the Ravens felt most comfortable with Grubbs being their 1st round selection. That was the Ravens opinion of Grubbs being the best selection not what someone else's draft board said.

Now in that same draft we could have took a chance on a QB in Kevin Kolb, the same way we took a chance on drafting Flacco so high. But at the time Ozzie and the FO felt we [b]needed [/b]to get younger and more athletic on the oline. So we took the best player on our board for a position of need.

Take Flacco last year. He was strickly a need pick. We wanted a Franchise QB and felt that he was the only one avaliable after Ryan. If u listened to the media Flacco wasn't the best player avaliable, but because we were determine to come out of this draft with our QB of the future, and because we didn't want him to get away Ozzie had to move around to get him. We probably could have drafted Sam Baker or Jeff Otah( who were probably viewed as the best on the board at the time) or even a CB in Aqib Talib( at the time Fabin Washington wasn't even on the team) and came away with a guy like Chad Henne. However Flacco was the right player at the right slot for Ozzie and the best player on our board.

The point i'm making is that best player avaliable still has a lot to do with need. Could we draft a CB in round one of course, but we also can find great value in the second round without trading. It is also much easier to trade for an established CB on draft day then a Stud WR.

You can say that drafting a starting calbier CB is more important, but who's to say that the CB drafted will be able to come in and beat out Walker for the nickle or push Washington or Foxworth for one of the top spots.

Now the same can be said about any position the Ravens select in round 1. You say that if we draft a WR he will just sit in year 1, well i don't think that is completely true. U can work a WR into a game plan and get him some valuable experience without him being somewhat of a liability. While every time u put a young CB on the field he is a targret. So if u draft that first round CB and expect him to be one of the better guys in ur secondary he better be special.

Example, if u had a rookie CB, would u really feel confident in him coveraging one of the better WR in the league in the AFC Championship game? Him making a mistake in a game would be much more costly, then if u asked a rookie WR to go out and catch a jump ball in the endzone. Or to go out and be the thrid option on a play. So it's a flip side to each coin.

Then u give the example about a guy getting hurt at CB. Well it's the NFL and injuries happen. But with that being said having great depth is a blessing that the Ravens haven't had in recent years. But like I said before there is no certainty that the Ravens are as high on guys like Bulter or Moore to say they are 1st rounders. So by that logic we would be reaching for depth. Correct? If we draft someone because it's possible that our starter could get hurt then we could also take the best avaliable QB in the first round cuz Joe could get hurt.

I'm not trying to bust ur balls because i agree with alot of what u are saying, but none of us really know what Ozzie and Erica are valuing with that 26 pick. Hell they could shock us all and select a DE or TE. Who knows.

But from my stand point, i don't see it as overvaluing the need for Flacco to have a BIG WR, I just see it as an addition peiece for the Ravens to take the next step. The 2009 draft doesn't have to directly impact the 2009 season. That is not what the draft is for(atleast not for the better teams). IF your first round guy can come in and impact your team greatly then fine, but ultimately u want a guy that will be imprinted in your team for many years. I just think that there is a WR that fits the Ravens prefectly in this draft and if they are high on him they will take him.

We all can sit here and try to think like Ozzie, and that is part of the fun around draft time. However the bottomline is that we don't really know what Ozzie is gonna do. I don't think Ozzie knows who will be the selection at 26 right now, because the draft has many surprises, but we all know that Ozzie has a plan, and a backup plan and a backup to the backup plan.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='raven43' post='173906' date='Mar 28 2009, 05:17 PM']RavensIQ, makes the best points...

to say that you aren't comfortable with our recievers, or at least less comfortable than you are with our corners, is strange because we made it to the AFC championship game with those recievers. the only one that missed games due to injury was Demetrius Williams, and he is returning next year, so the corps. will be the same as last year. So yeah, they could use and improvement, but it's not really a pressing need, and there most defenitely will not be a sure fire first round WR left anyway.

In contrast the secondary lost Chris Mcalister, Samari Rolle, Jim Leonhard, and Cory Ivy. All those guys contriubuted in some form or fashion last year. unlike the receiving corps, FA made our secondary depleted. To try and patch things up we're going to bring in a #2 corner to go along with the one we already have and a return specialist? that doesn't sound all too hot to me. [b]And if we were to draft a butler, it would all work out, becaue hes the BPA and a need[/b].[/quote]

How can u sit here and say that Bulter is the BPA on March 28 and the draft is less then a month away. The draft broad hasn't even starting to shape itself out. That is crazy to me. I can see if u said that in your opinion Bulter is the best player the Ravens could draft at 26, but u are saying that everything will work about because Bulter is the BPA and a need. Who's to say that Ozzie doesn't view Alphonso Smith as the best cover corner in this draft(which i would agree with). Who's to say that Ozzie doesn't value Sean Smith more then Bulter, who's to say that someone that was project to go in the top 20 doesn't drop to 26, would Bulter still be the BPA? That is just a tough comment to make imo and no one has been selected yet.

As far as saying we don't need a WR because we have the same WRs that lead us to the AFC Championship is foolish to me seeing how we were ranked 28 out of 32 teams when it came to passing. Also we did next to nothing offensively in the playoff and without defensive turnovers things could have been different. During the regular season our top guy had as many REC as some teams #1 guy but the yardage that screamed out #2 WR. I mean lets not sit here and think we all of the sudden have this great offense. I mean we did good offensively but we left alot to be desired. I really like our WR crop but i think we have a lot of complimentry guys, and we need that 1 guy to allow them to shine.

The only reason Flacco's season was viewed as being as good, was because of the wins and his poise/decision making. It's not like we lite the lead up on Offense or had numbers comparable to teams in the top 10. I mean without a dominating run game so of those games would have been really different last season. I mean our defense put our offense in some really great positions last season only to watch Stover throt out for a FG. Hell Flacco's number were compariable to Boller's in 2004 and no one was excited about that. Now don't get me wrong here, i love Joe and think he has what it takes to be special, but if we don't supply him with what is needed for him to blossom, then he'll just be another name in the long line of failed QBs in Baltimore.

Cam is a great OC, but why do u think he looked conservative agaisnt better defenses. Not because he didn't trust Joe, but because we didn't have the type of guys offensely to attack the more aggressive defenses. So if u think that we don't need any additions to the offense or the WR crop, that is your opinion and i respect it, but i can't wait to see some of the new peieces we add to the offense. And i think it will start in this years draft. We had a hellva run last year and that is great. However i think that too many times here in Baltimore as Ravens fans we get too complacent with the fact that we have a great defense so the offense just has to do effort. Well that is not the case. In order for this team and franchise to get where they wanna be and where we want them to be, then we will have to start producing a offense that can perfrom at a high level against any defense in the NFL. Thats just my opinion.

[RavensIQ]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' post='173714' date='Mar 27 2009, 11:29 PM']So while many feel that CB is still our biggest need, this draft is filled with guys that can cover, but [b]i don't think it's filled with guys that can be that #1 WR [u]i feel the Ravens NEED.[/u] So if u have the opportunity to pull the trigger on the WR u like in round 1, you do it, because when u compare need and value, to just need, the guy that gives u the value will outwiegh all. [/b]IMO[/quote]

Ok...but then you went on to later say...and I quote:

[quote name='Ravensfan23' post='173714' date='Mar 27 2009, 11:29 PM'][b]Your biggest need doesn't have to mean ur 1st round pick. A starter can be found anywhere in the draft(although most times they come from the 1st or 2nd rounds).

[u]Picking for need would be a huge mistake for the Ravens. [/u][/b][/quote]

Ok, I'm confused

So...can't we fill our need at WR in the later rounds and not risk drafting a "bust" as history shows us when drafting a 1st round WR...according to you??

but anyway then you went onto say...and I quote:


[quote name='Ravensfan23' post='173954' date='Mar 28 2009, 07:11 PM']You are assuming that guys the likes of Bulter, Smiths(2) and Moore are viewed as 1st round players to us.[b]That best player avaliable thing is cool, [u]but at some point u have to pick for need.[/u][/b][/quote]



But umm, you just said...


[quote name='Ravensfan23' post='173954' date='Mar 28 2009, 07:11 PM'][b]You just gotta make sure u don't overvalue that position of need and take a lesser player. [/b][/quote]

Kinda Like how you're overvaluing the WR position?



[quote name='Ravensfan23' post='173954' date='Mar 28 2009, 07:11 PM'][b]The point i'm making is that best player avaliable still has a lot to do with need. Could we draft a CB in round one of course, but we also can find great value in the second round without trading.[/b][/quote]

You're making a lot of points and quite frankly I'm starting to lose you. By your theory we could still wait on WR and address it in round 2, right?




[quote name='Ravensfan23' post='173954' date='Mar 28 2009, 07:11 PM'][b]Now the same can be said about any position the Ravens select in round 1.[/b][/quote]


I'm Glad you agree

[quote name='Ravensfan23' post='173954' date='Mar 28 2009, 07:11 PM'][b]You say that if we draft a WR he will just sit in year 1[/b]....[b]well i don't think that is completely true.[/b][/quote]

Well plz do explain...

Look back over the last 4 years and find me 1 first round Wide Receiver that came into the league his 1st year and put up #1 WR numbers...


That's a trick by the way...


You also suggested somewhere in one of your post; not word for word but along the lines, that a WR outside of Maclin and Crabtree could rank higher than 26 in terms of best players available by the time the Ravens select.

Well I can easily name you 30 players better than DHB and Britt (bcuz Harvin is so small we'll leave him out of it)....


(Excluding QBs)

RB: 1. Chris Wells, 2. Knowshon Moreno
TE: 3. Brandon Pettirgrew
OL: 4. Jason Smith, 5. Eugene Monroe, 6. Andre Smith, Michael Oher, 7. Ebon Britton, 9. Alex Mack, 10. Max Unger 11. Duke Robinson
WR: 12. Michael Crabtree, 13. Jeremy Maclin
DL: 14. Bj Raji, 15. Peria Jerry, 16. Michael Johnson, 17. Everette Brown, 18. Robert Ayers, 19. Tyson Jackson,
LB: 20. Brian Orakpo, 21. Aaron Curry, 22. Aaron Maybin, 23. Brian Cushing, 24. Clay Mathews, 25. Clint Sintim, 26. Larry English, 27. Ray Maualuga, 28. James Laurinaitis
CB: 29. Malcom Jenkins, 30. Vontae Davis, 31. Alphonzo Smith, 32. Darius Butler, 33. Sean Smith
S: 34. Louis Delmas

Then after these players you can talk about Percy Harvin, then when you're done talking about Harvin, you can finally bring DHB and Britt into the convo...

P.s. - I appreciate your many elaborate examples but plz...I got the point after reading the 1st paragraph. No need to break it down for me like that, I'm pretty aware of how things work.

[Ravensfan23]

When i say the Ravens would be foolish to draft for need i mean overvaluing a position of need. As i said before the whole draft is based on need, no matter if it is a need of depth or a need of a impact player.

In the past 11 years the Ravens never took a LT higher then the 2nd round, now i'm sure that there has been LTs that have been considered BPA during that time, but we had JO and a LT wasn't needed.

As for the WR situation, could we find a potential STUD WR in the later rounds? Yes but my opinion is that there won't be any avaliable without giving up something in a trade. Imo there are only a few guys that fit the bill of what i beleive the Ravens are looking for and if the Ravens really want that player it will have to be in round 1.

The debate over if we need a WR more then a CB is fun to have but at the end of the day it doesn't matter. The Ravens will select the player they value the most not the position. We won't draft LB in the 1st round just because we lost Bart Scott.

If guys like Alphonso Smith, Brandon Petitigrew, Kenny Britt, Alex Mack, and Tyson Jackson are all still on the board at 26, the Ravens will draft the player they have highest on their board. If all of the names i just listed are still there at 26, many people would say that Petitgrew would be a no brainer. However if for some reason the Ravens don't like his work ethic or don't view him as that "Raven" type player then he will not be the selection.

The 30 or so guys that u named as being better then the supposed second teir WRs is just your personal opinion, it holds no indication of who the Ravens value more, or what other teams value. At this time last year you could have come up with plenty of names for guys that werre better the Flacco, hell u could have named a few QBs that were rated higher then Flacco, but the Ravens valued Flacco more then anyone else so he was the selection. So by just ranking yes there are players better then Britt/Nicks/Robiskie, but who do the Ravens value more?

I feel that the Ravens can find a CB in the 2nd round(maybe even Butler) or later to fill the void or compete for the nickleback spot. However i don't feel that this draft is deep with guys that could potentially fill that #1 WR void. Now that is just my opinion, but if the Ravens feel the same way and they value a WR high enough to feel comfortable taking him at 26 then he will be the pick.

Nothing that you or I say invloving the Ravens in the draft is fact, because we are not in that Draft Room. So everything is just a personal opinion. I can sit here and yell every day about how i think Kenny Britt will be special in the NFL, but if the Ravens don't value him as highly as i do then he will not be a Raven period.

[RavensIQ]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' post='174176' date='Mar 29 2009, 08:01 PM']I feel that the Ravens can find a CB in the 2nd round(maybe even Butler) or later to fill the void or compete for the nickleback spot. However i don't feel that this draft is deep with guys that could potentially fill that #1 WR void. Now that is just my opinion, but if the Ravens feel the same way and they value a WR high enough to feel comfortable taking him at 26 then he will be the pick.[/quote]

I feel the same way about the #1 WR thing. Outside of the top 6-7 wr prospects, there really is a drop off in terms of potential #1 WRs. Believe me, I was all for drafting a #1 WR b4 we cut C'Mac and Samari. The fact still remains tho that we let go 2 pro bowl caliber CBs and replaced them with Chris Carr and Dominique Foxworth. So whether it's quality at the WR position or quality at the CB position which ever brings the most value like you said will outweigh all. IMO the quality at the cornerback position in the first round reigns supreme over the WR quality.

And I understand your philosophy on Ozzie's draft board and how no one really knows who he's eying, but that point is irrelevant bcuz we are talking about who we as fans would like to see get drafted that will logically make the most sense at #26.

This discussion is just away of killing time until the draft rolls around. Hell, last year at this time, many people here on this message board had us taking Joe Flacco #1 overall (me included) and that was b4 people in the national spotlight even knew about the guy. So give the fans some credit when we talk about this stuff bcuz a lot of us here know our stuff, including you.

But back on point, reaching for WR in the first is exactly that...reaching. And that's not how you want to approach things. You agreed with me about us taking the best player available when you mentioned Alphonso Smith, Brandon Petitigrew, Alex Mack, and Tyson Jackson. So obviously we share the same feeling, but I think where we differ is how we rank those players.

You have certain WRs ranked higher than others...which is fair, but again, I believe you're dead wrong. I think you here what I'm saying about cornerback position and automatically assume I'm saying draft CB bcuz it's out biggest need. In actuality I'm saying draft CB bcuz players at that position will be some of the best players available @ 26 if not THE BEST, and it also will fill a major need. I'm not suggesting we take need alone. We will take the best player available, but if there is a player within the same area that can fill a need, then that's our guy. And i just don't see any WR's there in that position that will cut it (except for Jeremy Maclin).

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='RavensIQ' post='174197' date='Mar 29 2009, 09:10 PM']I feel the same way about the #1 WR thing. Outside of the top 6-7 wr prospects, there really is a drop off in terms of potential #1 WRs. Believe me, I was all for drafting a #1 WR b4 we cut C'Mac and Samari. The fact still remains tho that we let go 2 pro bowl caliber CBs and replaced them with Chris Carr and Dominique Foxworth. So whether it's quality at the WR position or quality at the CB position which ever brings the most value like you said will outweigh all. IMO the quality at the cornerback position in the first round reigns supreme over the WR quality.

And I understand your philosophy on Ozzie's draft board and how no one really knows who he's eying, but that point is irrelevant bcuz we are talking about who we as fans would like to see get drafted that will logically make the most sense at #26.

This discussion is just away of killing time until the draft rolls around. Hell, last year at this time, many people here on this message board had us taking Joe Flacco #1 overall (me included) and that was b4 people in the national spotlight even knew about the guy. So give the fans some credit when we talk about this stuff bcuz a lot of us here know our stuff, including you.

But back on point, reaching for WR in the first is exactly that...reaching. And that's not how you want to approach things. You agreed with me about us taking the best player available when you mentioned Alphonso Smith, Brandon Petitigrew, Alex Mack, and Tyson Jackson. So obviously we share the same feeling, but I think where we differ is how we rank those players.

You have certain WRs ranked higher than others...which is fair, but again, I believe you're dead wrong. I think you here what I'm saying about cornerback position and automatically assume I'm saying draft CB bcuz it's out biggest need. In actuality I'm saying draft CB bcuz players at that position will be some of the best players available @ 26 if not THE BEST, and it also will fill a major need. I'm not suggesting we take need alone. We will take the best player available, but if there is a player within the same area that can fill a need, then that's our guy. And i just don't see any WR's there in that position that will cut it (except for Jeremy Maclin).[/quote]

Ok i misunderstood u a bit. I agree with everything u are say(expect when u say i'm dead wrong lol) and i too think that guys like Bulter and Alphonso Smith has tremendous value. I wouldn't be mad with either of those guys at 26, i just have a feeling that both of them will drop to the 2nd round.

Once those 2 guys drop into the 2nd round, now guys like DJ Moore, Sean Smith, Coye Francies and Jarvis Byrd start to get into the mix. At that point it could be a run on CB(not to mention a few safeties) and i feel a quality CB will fall withing range of our 2nd round pick.

I don't see Bulter falling too far, so if we did follow my draft plan we would have to trade up for him in round 2, but i feel Alphonso Smith will drop to within 4-6 spots above the Ravens just because of his size. Make no mistake i wanna see us come away with a quality young CB in this draft maybe even 2.

From my stand point, I've watched Kenny Britt and Alphonso Smith for the pass 3 years and i think both of those guys are exactly what we need. So coming away with those 2 guys would be the prefect draft for me. But i also realize that there are other guys that fit the Ravens well.

[ZIBBY28]

[quote name='RavensIQ' post='173861' date='Mar 28 2009, 02:42 PM']You're forgetting that Ozzie will draft the BEST player available. [b]NO[/b] Wide Receiver @ 26 will be the best player available except for Jeremy Maclin and Michael Crabtree.

I said draft Darius Butler bcuz I think he will be one of the BEST players available when we select, if not THE Best. I think if it comes down to selecting a top cornerback who is highly-rated or a WR like Britt, DHB, Nicks, the CB will get drafted bcuz it is a bigger need.

We only have 5 CBs on our roster (as of now) that I feel comfortable with.

1.) Foxworth
2.) Washington
3.) Walker
4.) Carr
5.) Martin
(We re-signed Ogelsby but that's really nothing to get excited about)

Out of those 5, only 2 are "starter" material. That has to be a big concern for our FO bcuz if one of those 2 go down we're now in a serious predicament. What happens if both go down? For example..How much better would our #2 ranked pass defense have been last season if both C'Mac and Rolle were healthy for the entire year? Would we have made it to the Superbowl? Would we have shutdown Santonio Holmes and Hines Ward?

I know Baltimore has lacked a true #1 WR since...ALWAYS, but you can't prioritize WR over CB at this point bcuz we already have a lot of WRs on our roster with a lot of potential. How many times do you see the Ravens with 3 CBs on the field? Now how many times do you see the Ravens with 3 or more WRs on the field... ?

Obviously the Ravens utilize the CB position a lot more than they do the WR position, so why not invest in one of our most important positions with quality? (which you'll find in a 1st round CB)

If it just so happens that a CB is the best player available @ 26 (Butler, Davis, maybe both Smiths) then I don't think it's us picking "need" over anything else. It's just us selecting the best talent.

Ozzie has been on record numerous times saying DTs, QBs, and CBs are the premier positions in the 1st round that you HAVE to look at first, over everything else.

Again, I know DHB, Nicks, and Britt might be some of the best WRs available in this years class, but it doesn't mean they are 1st round prospects.

Since 2006 only 7 WRs have been drafted in the 1st round. 7 out of 96 players...To put that into perspective, here are the number of players drafted in the 1st round at each position over the last 3 years:


DB-20
DL-18
OL-17
LB-12
RB-11
QB-7
[b]WR-7[/b]
TE-4

Don't let the obsession of wanting a big WR for Flacco (that will take several years to develop b4 he will finally be effective) outweigh the need of making our entire "team" better right now.

DHB or Nicks or Britt are not going to come onto the pro level in their first season and light it up. Their not gonna torch NFL CBs/Defenses like they did in college. It's going to take awhile. We draft DHB/Nicks/Britt now, he might be ready to start in 2 years...you guys should think about that b4 u go getting your panties wet. At least with CB/DL they will have a decent shot at seeing significant playing time next year.


We're not gearing up for a Super Bowl run (re-signing Lewis (33), signing Birk (32), possibly Torry Holt (32), Pryce (33), Mason (35), looking at Orlando Pace (33), Kelly Gregg (32), Ed Reed (30) looking at Bobby Ingram (36) ect, ect..), just to have our 1st round rookie sit the bench for most of the season; which will happen if we draft a WR.[/quote]

wow IQ... i actually completely agree with you lol.. my mock is listed in my sig.. it might be slightly unrealistic, but i would absolutely love for it to happen.. what do you think?