2017 NFL Draft Day 1 "Game Thread"

[Sami84]

Just now, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Oh i agree - i dont think they said lets grab humphrey now bc theres going to be a run and we can profit from that.

But Decosta did say on the Lounge podcast last week -- which proved to be telling -- that if one of their top CBs was on the board, that they felt could become a lockdown player, they were going to have a very hard time passing him up... bc they felt this draft was very good at the top at CB, and while deep after the 1st tier there were very good players, but not lock down type players.

If they feel they got a lock down player, then im all for it. This secondary is now scary and deep. 3 Top 15 safeties, a Top 3-5 CB (when healthy), the top young slot CB in the league, a solid veteran #2 who functioned as a league average #1 last year, and now a rookie with HUGE upside. We've got 7 DBs that can really play now. Good luck throwing on us.... and that helps the pass rush immensely.

 

And if we now can leverage a run on CBs, think about it. The difference between Humphrey and say Kazee, Howard Wilson, or Shaq Griffin - who might be the tier of CBs that are available come the 3rd round -- is imo much greater than the difference between Harris, Takk, TJ Watt and Tim Williams, Carl Lawson, Willis and Bowser who at least one of should be available at 47.

And then add the fact that a Dion Dawkins, Feeney, or Elflein could be available then in the 3rd round who arent far at all behind the 1st round guys -- we could end up filling our 3 biggest needs with two 1st round talents, and a 2nd round talent.

TE too... super deep group. Howard is obviously the class of the group, but Gerald Everett, Adam Shaheen, Bucky Hodges, George Kittle, Jake Butt -- theres some serious athletes and dynamic playmakers there if we want one. Not the polish or complete package as Howard, but definitely the athleticism to be match up nightmares.

 

So, even if you think we didnt get the greatest prospect available at 16.... i think hes among the cleanest and safest, with maybe not quite as high upside but still serious potential; and by going that direction it puts us in position to make the draft as a whole have a much bigger impact on improving this team.

 

actually i think it's the opposite. I think he's one of the riskiest with it more being about upside. Much like perriman.

[jazz1988]

14 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

dre has been awful, he had 1 decent but not great by any stretch of the imagination season last year. Bengal fans have never taken to him and hated the contract he was given.

yeah, btw Cyrus jones in the 3rd round wasnt a reach..thats where i projected him.

Humphrey is a 2nd round talent. I don't care how great his measurabes are.. if you're a first round corner, i want ball skills.and the ability to mirror recievers big or small.

 

 

Actually Jones was drafted in the second round by The Patriots. 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

1 minute ago, Sami84 said:

When ozzie says BY FAR, it reminds me of what he said about matt elam.

We don't seem to value ball hawking in baltimore. Aside from the ed reed pick, we seem to focus mostly on run stopping secondary players.

Yea. Jimmy, Tavon's, Webb's, and Weddles best attributes are clearly stopping the run.

[Sami84]

Just now, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Yea. Jimmy, Tavon's, Webb's, and Weddles best attributes are clearly stopping the run.

richard sherman has more interceptions than jimmy and webb combined times 4.

[Sami84]

1 minute ago, jazz1988 said:

Actually Jones was drafted in the second round by The Patriots. 

last pick of the 2nd? well he's alright. Nothing special. More about return skills i suppose.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

1 minute ago, Sami84 said:

actually i think it's the opposite. I think he's one of the riskiest with it more being about upside. Much like perriman.

your opinions are meaningless to me.

youre the greatest hindsight evaluator of talent ive ever seen.

Great that you think hes a 2nd round talent. Multiple sources have said most teams saw him as the #1 or #2 CB. So its not just Ozzie and Baltimore... the majority of the league is stupid.

[rossihunter2]

Just now, Sami84 said:

richard sherman has more interceptions than jimmy and webb combined times 4.

richard sherman is a rare player with the scheme to allow him to go after the football and he had great ball skills - i dont know why his being unbelievably good would mean jimmy or webby are bad players?

[rossihunter2]

Just now, Sami84 said:

last pick of the 2nd? well he's alright. Nothing special. More about return skills i suppose.

cyrus jones is the closer to a bust than dre kirkpatrick ever has been - you're hyping up his return skills but they are literally the reason we even ran the patriots close when we played them last year

[Sami84]

Just now, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

your opinions are meaningless to me.

youre the greatest hindsight evaluator of talent ive ever seen.

Great that you think hes a 2nd round talent. Multiple sources have said most teams saw him as the #1 or #2 CB. So its not just Ozzie and Baltimore... the majority of the league is stupid.

 

im not a hindsight guy. If we picked lattimore ( had he been available) or T.white, Conley or waited for sidney jones i'd have liked the pick a lot more. I'm not a hindsight guy. In this case I didn't even think we'd be interested as i thought we had done enough in the secondary AND he isnt the talent of the players i just mentioned.

 

I trust my abilty to judge talent and you know what? I've had more right than ozzie has in recent years so i won't let people on here bully me just because someone has a title. Titles mean nothing, results do.

[jazz1988]

7 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

last pick of the 2nd? well he's alright. Nothing special. More about return skills i suppose.

I don't think a team drafts a  cornerback/player in the second round  if it's all about return skills. I'm sure The Patriots drafted him believing he could be a  pretty good corner. If not and your right about what you said  then I guess that was a reach for them .

Edited April 28 by jazz1988

[Drew P]

http://www.wgmd.com/draft-day-1-transcripts-first-round-review/

[rossihunter2]

Just now, Sami84 said:

I trust my abilty to judge talent and you know what? I've had more right than ozzie has in recent years so i won't let people on here bully me just because someone has a title. Titles mean nothing, results do.

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[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

1 minute ago, Sami84 said:

richard sherman has more interceptions than jimmy and webb combined times 4.

thats awesome. and?

Playing the pass isnt just about getting INT's.... which btw Jimmy may not get many of but by eliminating half of the field by himself he forces QB's to squeeze throws into much small windows that are crowded by more defenders since they know Jimmy is fine on his own.

And most of Shermans INT's came when he was being tested often. His INT numbers have dropped steadily since teams started avoiding him. Jimmy doesnt get thrown at all.

 

But when he does, he allows the lowest catch % of any CB in the league, and the fewest yards per reception when they do catch it. The only are of the field that QB's have even near league average passer rating throwing at Jimmy is behind or within 2 yards of the of scrimmage.

He doesnt allow catches, and when he does he tackles right away for limited yardage. IE passing games dotn work in his direction. Id say thats pretty effective at playing the pass.

And means more than an extra 2 or 3 INT's.... especially when hes helping Weddle, Webb, Tavon, Mosley and Orr get them (add Jefferson and Humphrey to that list now).

[Sami84]

2 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

richard sherman is a rare player with the scheme to allow him to go after the football and he had great ball skills - i dont know why his being unbelievably good would mean jimmy or webby are bad players?

 

Jimmy is a solid player..I just don't see that superstar corner potential you would want. If they wanted a corner so bad they should have traded their 3rd and 1st for lattimore. 

 

If we had come out of this draft with lattimore i'd have given us an A PLUS. why? He's an absolute baller.

[Sami84]

Just now, rossihunter2 said:

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How is it hindsight WHEN they hadnt played? Also perriman and elam for the millionth time was NOT HINDSIGHT.

i hate denial of someone being right just because the outcome wasnt great.

[Sami84]

1 minute ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

thats awesome. and?

Playing the pass isnt just about getting INT's.... which btw Jimmy may not get many of but by eliminating half of the field by himself he forces QB's to squeeze throws into much small windows that are crowded by more defenders since they know Jimmy is fine on his own.

And most of Shermans INT's came when he was being tested often. His INT numbers have dropped steadily since teams started avoiding him. Jimmy doesnt get thrown at all.

 

But when he does, he allows the lowest catch % of any CB in the league, and the fewest yards per reception when they do catch it. The only are of the field that QB's have even near league average passer rating throwing at Jimmy is behind or within 2 yards of the of scrimmage.

He doesnt allow catches, and when he does he tackles right away for limited yardage. IE passing games dotn work in his direction. Id say thats pretty effective at playing the pass.

And means more than an extra 2 or 3 INT's.... especially when hes helping Weddle, Webb, Tavon, Mosley and Orr get them (add Jefferson and Humphrey to that list now).

 

jimmy is a solid player but i think we may have seen the best of him. He's almost 30! Time flies eh? I just wish we had an all pro type of talent at corner for once..the only guy we've ever had that could be considered elite was C-Mac. Webb had his 1 season but thats not enough for me.

[Drew P]

7 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

No, they tried to move up for either Reddick or Barnett who they had rated above Humphrey.

Clearly whoever it was we tried to trade up with knew we were coming up for their guy and wouldnt trade with us. So we stayed pat and took the next highest rated guy who was Humphrey.

How did you not understand that?

Well I guess you were in the war room, correct?

How in hell do you know whom they wanted to select?

It defies logic to potentially move up one spot to draft a guy and then say Humphrey "by far" was the BPA AND Harbs said he fills a need as depth

[Sami84]

6 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

cyrus jones is the closer to a bust than dre kirkpatrick ever has been - you're hyping up his return skills but they are literally the reason we even ran the patriots close when we played them last year

 

yeah i never liked cyrus jones much. Im glad we didnt pick him.

[rossihunter2]

1 minute ago, Drew P said:

Well I guess you were in the war room, correct?

How in hell do you know whom they wanted to select?

It defies logic to potentially move up one spot to draft a guy and then say Humphrey "by far" was the BPA AND Harbs said he fills a need as depth

i dont get how what you said disproves anything - maybe they had 2 guys who they loved a lot more than the rest of the board and they wanted to trade up for one of them but the one they wanted got taken when they couldnt trade up for them and they took humphrey who was the other player...

[BmoreBird22]

5 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

How is it hindsight WHEN they hadnt played? Also perriman and elam for the millionth time was NOT HINDSIGHT.

i hate denial of someone being right just because the outcome wasnt great.

Elam was. You have no posts about Elam at the time of the draft.

[Adreme]

2 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

How is it hindsight WHEN they hadnt played? Also perriman and elam for the millionth time was NOT HINDSIGHT.

i hate denial of someone being right just because the outcome wasnt great.

First off you are judging Perriman WAY too early.  Let the guy have an actual off-season before we start judging of his weaknesses from college can be coached away.  It's kinda hard to do that though when freak injuries (which were NOT part of equation when drafting him because he wasn't an injury risk) detail first few seasons.

Second didn't someone already note in your publicly viewable post history that you didn't even mention Perriman until AFTER we drafted him.  Since you were right on Elam and wrong on Williams i will give you 50 percent accuracy which is not bad I guess.

[BmoreBird22]

1 minute ago, Adreme said:

First off you are judging Perriman WAY too early.  Let the guy have an actual off-season before we start judging of his weaknesses from college can be coached away.  It's kinda hard to do that though when freak injuries (which were NOT part of equation when drafting him because he wasn't an injury risk) detail first few seasons.

Second didn't someone already note in your publicly viewable post history that you didn't even mention Perriman until AFTER we drafted him.  Since you were right on Elam and wrong on Williams i will give you 50 percent accuracy which is not bad I guess.

He didn't post about Elam until into the 2014 season, I'm pretty sure.

[Sami84]

1 minute ago, Adreme said:

First off you are judging Perriman WAY too early.  Let the guy have an actual off-season before we start judging of his weaknesses from college can be coached away.  It's kinda hard to do that though when freak injuries (which were NOT part of equation when drafting him because he wasn't an injury risk) detail first few seasons.

Second didn't someone already note in your publicly viewable post history that you didn't even mention Perriman until AFTER we drafted him.  Since you were right on Elam and wrong on Williams i will give you 50 percent accuracy which is not bad I guess.

 

that person is lying as i have 5000 thousand posts and there is no chance he;d have found it. I cant find any posts from 2 years ago. I did, I said it many times. I've made mistakes but the person you're speaking of would not be able to find a post among 5000 .

[rossihunter2]

31 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

dre has been awful, he had 1 decent but not great by any stretch of the imagination season last year. Bengal fans have never taken to him and hated the contract he was given.

yeah, btw Cyrus jones in the 3rd round wasnt a reach..thats where i projected him.

Humphrey is a 2nd round talent. I don't care how great his measurabes are.. if you're a first round corner, i want ball skills.and the ability to mirror recievers big or small.

 

 

13 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

last pick of the 2nd? well he's alright. Nothing special. More about return skills i suppose.

3 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

yeah i never liked cyrus jones much. Im glad we didnt pick him.

if you never liked cyrus jones much why would you project him in the 3rd and make a point of telling me it wasnt a reach to take him there

in the space of half an hour you changed your mind on a prospect after being given new information - that is literally the definition of hindsight analysis

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

1 minute ago, BmoreBird22 said:

He didn't post about Elam until into the 2014 season, I'm pretty sure.

Just wanted to say I'm sorry for last night.

 

i have a headache now. Smh

[Adreme]

5 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

jimmy is a solid player but i think we may have seen the best of him. He's almost 30! Time flies eh? I just wish we had an all pro type of talent at corner for once..the only guy we've ever had that could be considered elite was C-Mac. Webb had his 1 season but thats not enough for me.

The Ravens use Jimmy in such a way that he can not be going for interceptions.  He is too often left on his own with no help and the opponents still won't try him.  ONLY an all-pro CB could pull that off.

If you want more INTs get a 2nd corner who doesn't require the entire defense to baby him and then they will bappen.

[Sami84]

1 minute ago, BmoreBird22 said:

He didn't post about Elam until into the 2014 season, I'm pretty sure.

Nope, I posted 2 weeks after the draft as I was on holiday. I said Elam is a liability in coverage and i cringed when i saw ozzie say '' we had a guy called ed reed, and we are looking for the guy to replace him, we think you're that guy''.

 

I also attacked his ''eat greedy'' brand he started when he first joined and was negged to death for it AND i said he has some nerve saying he's world class in coverage before he even played a game after what i saw on tape

[Sami84]

1 minute ago, rossihunter2 said:

if you never liked cyrus jones much why would you project him in the 3rd and make a point of telling me it wasnt a reach to take him there

in the space of half an hour you changed your mind on a prospect after being given new information - that is literally the definition of hindsight analysis

 

Because i didnt see much going on from 3rd round onwards. I did like tavon though  and i got the 3 guys i rated high right. Stanely, Dixon and tavon

[arnie_uk]

1 hour ago, The Mom Gene said:

He has some character issues......

Howard absolutely does not have character issues. That's total Crap

[The Mom Gene]

3 minutes ago, arnie_uk said:

Howard absolutely does not have character issues. That's total Crap

Hey, I'm just quoting what some of the analysts were stating last night.....  They gave valid reasons why 3 of those guys were overlooked.  Just sayin.  So if you believe it's total crap...  then see the guys on ESPN or NFLN