Your Advice to the Latest Ravens OC

[frozen joe flacco fan]

 

17 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

This is the part of the game where you are challenged to provide specific plays (or even play) that "maximizes Pitta's talent" no a third and long play...

The easy part is saying "just draw up a play that maximizes talent". Saying it is the easy part. The part's that actually hard, and what separates coaches from fans, is figuring out exactly what that play is. Dennis Pitta isn't as talented as Gronk, and I'd have a hard time personally identifying what kind of play on a crucial third and long can be devised to play to Pitta' strengths. 

Best I could come up with is throwing him a jump ball over the middle in the seam, likely between two defenders. All that requires is an incredibly accurate throw, and the toughness to come down with the catch and likely get sandwiched while doing it. All while hanging your already somewhat fragile TE out to dry over the middle of the field.

Speed isn't his asset. Size isn't his asset. The ability to separate isn't his asset.

It seems like you're starting to realize the point that everybody is making... its a talent issue, not a playcalling issue. 

Talent issue or not, there's are reasons Joe threw to Dennis a lot in clutch situations. The two most obvious reasons are: 10 He was, next to Steve Smith, Sr. our most reliable "Go To" hands guy AND 2) he got separation by finding a dead spot in the zone coverages we faced a lot. I'd say they are both assets. More importantly, he has another asset that exceeds the other two, which is, he has the heart of a lion. They don't pay him to block or run deep patterns. They pay him to catch passes and he did that better than anyone else n the team. BUT, you got 1 out of 3 right. Speed is not his asset. His size, i.e., height, and his ability to get separation are assets. The very reason Joe had to dump off so many passes to his RBs and his FB was due to the inability of Aiken, Moore, Waller (a converted TE), Perriman and Wallace to get separation. You could count the number of open reads Joe missed during the season on one hand.

[rmcjacket23]

3 minutes ago, frozen joe flacco fan said:

 

Talent issue or not, there's are reasons Joe threw to Dennis a lot in clutch situations. The two most obvious reasons are: 10 He was, next to Steve Smith, Sr. our most reliable "Go To" hands guy AND 2) he got separation by finding a dead spot in the zone coverages we faced a lot. I'd say they are both assets. More importantly, he has another asset that exceeds the other two, which is, he has the heart of a lion. They don't pay him to block or run deep patterns. They pay him to catch passes and he did that better than anyone else n the team. BUT, you got 1 out of 3 right. Speed is not his asset. His size, i.e., height, and his ability to get separation are assets. The very reason Joe had to dump off so many passes to his RBs and his FB was due to the inability of Aiken, Moore, Waller (a converted TE), Perriman and Wallace to get separation. You could count the number of open reads Joe missed during the season on one hand.

1. If we're focused just on 2016, Pitta was just as much of a "hands guy" as Wallace, since their drop rates were the same and both were ahead of Steve Smith's. And I would also point out that he and Wallace were targeted almost the exact same amount, so there really wasn't much favoritism between the two.

2. The main reason why Joe targeted him on those throws is because Pitta was the open man. One main reason he's the open man is because he's sitting down in the zone BEFORE the line of gain. Defenses will gladly allow a guy to get open 5 yards from the LOS when he needs 8 for a first down... they'll give up that reception all day long. So while Dennis caught that pass, its still 4th down, which means we didn't accomplish that much. You could argue that its beneficial to complete that pass so maybe we're in a better FG position or punt position, but that's not exactly what they pay Dennis to do.

Its not a coincidence that the complaints about throwing short of the line of gain revolve around "check downs" to the TEs and the RBs. You didn't see a lot of instances where we were completing passes to Steve or Wallace short of the line of gain, because they were running routes beyond that line and simply weren't getting open and/or Joe didn't aggressively push it down field to them enough, among other reasons.

3. I would also point out that, in terms of the percentage of receptions that lead to first downs, Pitta's was far and away the lowest number out of our top three guys (Steve and Wallace). Like a TON lower. So it tells us that he's catching passes, which is great and cute and all, but he's not moving the chains and his YPC numbers are abysmal, which means we're not getting much out of him catching those passes.

[The Raven]

1 hour ago, frozen joe flacco fan said:

 

Talent issue or not, there's are reasons Joe threw to Dennis a lot in clutch situations. The two most obvious reasons are: 10 He was, next to Steve Smith, Sr. our most reliable "Go To" hands guy AND 2) he got separation by finding a dead spot in the zone coverages we faced a lot. I'd say they are both assets. More importantly, he has another asset that exceeds the other two, which is, he has the heart of a lion. They don't pay him to block or run deep patterns. They pay him to catch passes and he did that better than anyone else n the team. BUT, you got 1 out of 3 right. Speed is not his asset. His size, i.e., height, and his ability to get separation are assets. The very reason Joe had to dump off so many passes to his RBs and his FB was due to the inability of Aiken, Moore, Waller (a converted TE), Perriman and Wallace to get separation. You could count the number of open reads Joe missed during the season on one hand.

Pitta only got separation on five yard curl routes and two yard flat routes that had no potential to convert third down. He found the literal dead zone where nobody was because it didn't ever matter if he went there.

He'd run short of sticks and fall down before even thinking about breaking a tackle for YAC.

But hey, at least he's open and catches every wide open pass.

And good god if I read one more mindless cliche like "heart of a lion" I will vomit. Do you guys watch Disney movies and Hallmark movies nonstop with all these cliches? Or do you just listen to aimless, hackneyed Ray Lewis speeches on repeat, for days at a time?

I swear I don't think any of the coaches I played for said "heart" more than once a year -- at the end of the year banquet, talking about the guy that never played a down but got the crap kicked out of him in practice.

Edited April 25 by The Raven

[redrum52]

3 hours ago, frozen joe flacco fan said:

 

Talent issue or not, there's are reasons Joe threw to Dennis a lot in clutch situations. The two most obvious reasons are: 10 He was, next to Steve Smith, Sr. our most reliable "Go To" hands guy AND 2) he got separation by finding a dead spot in the zone coverages we faced a lot. I'd say they are both assets. More importantly, he has another asset that exceeds the other two, which is, he has the heart of a lion. They don't pay him to block or run deep patterns. They pay him to catch passes and he did that better than anyone else n the team. BUT, you got 1 out of 3 right. Speed is not his asset. His size, i.e., height, and his ability to get separation are assets. The very reason Joe had to dump off so many passes to his RBs and his FB was due to the inability of Aiken, Moore, Waller (a converted TE), Perriman and Wallace to get separation. You could count the number of open reads Joe missed during the season on one hand.

You sure about this?

 

@The Raven  how could you be tired of the cliches?  We're returning to smash mouth football.  We could potentially, finally draft a #1 wr to pair with our elite qb.  Deep draft too, so we may be able to get a CB and OLB to help our defense return to organized chaos.  No more gutless play calling from passive Pees and his 3 man rushes.  Also, even though we lost Zack Orr, we still have the heart and soul of our defense in Mosley.... Miss anything?

Edited April 25 by redrum52

[The Raven]

1 hour ago, redrum52 said:

You sure about this?

 

@The Raven  how could you be tired of the cliches?  We're returning to smash mouth football.  We could potentially, finally draft a #1 wr to pair with our elite qb.  Deep draft too, so we may be able to get a CB and OLB to help our defense return to organized chaos.  No more gutless play calling from passive Pees and his 3 man rushes.  Also, even though we lost Zack Orr, we still have the heart and soul of our defense in Mosley.... Miss anything?

You forgot bring back Ray to be a locker room leader and keep guys in line and inspire people to work even harder

[JoeyFlex5]

17 hours ago, The Raven said:

You forgot bring back Ray to be a locker room leader and keep guys in line and inspire people to work even harder

Plus stickers! 

 

[redrum52]

2 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Plus stickers! 

 

Can't believe I forgot about that...  

[Davesta]

Teach flacco how to read defenses presnap and allow him to make checks / audibles 

[frozen joe flacco fan]

On ‎4‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 2:44 PM, The Raven said:

Pitta only got separation on five yard curl routes and two yard flat routes that had no potential to convert third down. He found the literal dead zone where nobody was because it didn't ever matter if he went there.

He'd run short of sticks and fall down before even thinking about breaking a tackle for YAC.

But hey, at least he's open and catches every wide open pass.

And good god if I read one more mindless cliche like "heart of a lion" I will vomit. Do you guys watch Disney movies and Hallmark movies nonstop with all these cliches? Or do you just listen to aimless, hackneyed Ray Lewis speeches on repeat, for days at a time?

I swear I don't think any of the coaches I played for said "heart" more than once a year -- at the end of the year banquet, talking about the guy that never played a down but got the crap kicked out of him in practice.

Actually, the "heart of a lion" mindless cliché came right from Coach Harbaugh, but far be it for me to question the greatness of your coaches. At the risk of disagreeing with their innate wisdom and yours, I would call the guy that never played a down but got the crap kicked out of him in practice someone who should have tried out for the debate club. BTW, where did you dream up that one? Were you watching Rudy again for some inspiration? Let's see...... Of all our TEs, including Watson, Waller, Williams, Boyle and Happy Gilmore, Dennis performed better than all of them combined. Quit your complaining and find someone else other than Joe and Dennis to blame for the ineptness of our offense last year. I'm not sure why Dennis did not win the comeback player of the year award but he certainly deserved it.

[The Raven]

11 minutes ago, frozen joe flacco fan said:

Actually, the "heart of a lion" mindless cliché came right from Coach Harbaugh, but far be it for me to question the greatness of your coaches. At the risk of disagreeing with their innate wisdom and yours, I would call the guy that never played a down but got the crap kicked out of him in practice someone who should have tried out for the debate club. BTW, where did you dream up that one? Were you watching Rudy again for some inspiration? Let's see...... Of all our TEs, including Watson, Waller, Williams, Boyle and Happy Gilmore, Dennis performed better than all of them combined. Quit your complaining and find someone else other than Joe and Dennis to blame for the ineptness of our offense last year. I'm not sure why Dennis did not win the comeback player of the year award but he certainly deserved it.

Yeah, Harbaugh says that crap in part because fans eat it up. "Heart" always makes for a good quote. 

What did I dream up? Was I watching Rudy? Don't even know what you're talking about. All I know is I didn't need some coach to say the word "heart" for me to want to clobber someone.

If you think Dennis deserved comeback player of the year for leading the league in wide open catches followed by falling down immediately, then you should probably see a doctor.

[frozen joe flacco fan]

On ‎4‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 4:39 PM, redrum52 said:

You sure about this?

 

@The Raven  how could you be tired of the cliches?  We're returning to smash mouth football.  We could potentially, finally draft a #1 wr to pair with our elite qb.  Deep draft too, so we may be able to get a CB and OLB to help our defense return to organized chaos.  No more gutless play calling from passive Pees and his 3 man rushes.  Also, even though we lost Zack Orr, we still have the heart and soul of our defense in Mosley.... Miss anything?

No. My opinion was based upon watching Joe in all 16 games last year. I saw more dropped passes by some of our "elite" group of receivers than misreads by Joe. To be fair, some of his interceptions, and there were too many, were the result of balls that shoulda been caught or rushed throws he made due to some P-poor blocking by our "elite" group of blockers.

Be careful how you use the word heart around your buddy The Raven. He's overly sensitive to clichés.

I do agree with him on one thing though. Our myriad of problems last year had more to do with the talent thing and less to do with the play-calling. In an admittedly different era of the NFL, the Green Bay Packers won consistently with some pretty basic plays, which they executed to near perfection. The Washington Redskins also beat a Don Shula coached Miami team in a Super Bowl with a basic play that the Dolphins couldn't stop. To make a long story short, we need more playmakers on both sides of the ball. I'm glad we're returning to smash mouth football to use your words but it will all be for naught if Oz does not land at least a starting offensive lineman and an immediate impact wide receiver.  

[frozen joe flacco fan]

10 minutes ago, The Raven said:

Yeah, Harbaugh says that crap in part because fans eat it up. "Heart" always makes for a good quote. 

What did I dream up? Was I watching Rudy? Don't even know what you're talking about. All I know is I didn't need some coach to say the word "heart" for me to want to clobber someone.

If you think Dennis deserved comeback player of the year for leading the league in wide open catches followed by falling down immediately, then you should probably see a doctor.

Sounds like you're the one who needs the doctor, dude!

[The Raven]

6 hours ago, frozen joe flacco fan said:

No. My opinion was based upon watching Joe in all 16 games last year. I saw more dropped passes by some of our "elite" group of receivers than misreads by Joe. To be fair, some of his interceptions, and there were too many, were the result of balls that shoulda been caught or rushed throws he made due to some P-poor blocking by our "elite" group of blockers.

Be careful how you use the word heart around your buddy The Raven. He's overly sensitive to clichés.

I do agree with him on one thing though. Our myriad of problems last year had more to do with the talent thing and less to do with the play-calling. In an admittedly different era of the NFL, the Green Bay Packers won consistently with some pretty basic plays, which they executed to near perfection. The Washington Redskins also beat a Don Shula coached Miami team in a Super Bowl with a basic play that the Dolphins couldn't stop. To make a long story short, we need more playmakers on both sides of the ball. I'm glad we're returning to smash mouth football to use your words but it will all be for naught if Oz does not land at least a starting offensive lineman and an immediate impact wide receiver.  

I wouldn't say I'm oversensitive to cliches. I just find them annoyingly vapid. A prevalence of cliches usually indicates an absence of actual thought. "I can't bring anything meaningful to the conversation so let me just fall back on this stupid cliche I heard John Madden say once during a game."

[SepticeyePoe]

5 hours ago, The Raven said:

I wouldn't say I'm oversensitive to cliches. I just find them annoyingly vapid. A prevalence of cliches usually indicates an absence of actual thought. "I can't bring anything meaningful to the conversation so let me just fall back on this stupid cliche I heard John Madden say once during a game."

"Hating on a cliche cliche" *ding*

Edited April 27 by SepticeyePoe

[ByTheBay]

On 4/25/2017 at 1:35 PM, rmcjacket23 said:

 

2. The main reason why Joe targeted him on those throws is because Pitta was the open man. One main reason he's the open man is because he's sitting down in the zone BEFORE the line of gain. Defenses will gladly allow a guy to get open 5 yards from the LOS when he needs 8 for a first down... they'll give up that reception all day long. So while Dennis caught that pass, its still 4th down, which means we didn't accomplish that much. You could argue that its beneficial to complete that pass so maybe we're in a better FG position or punt position, but that's not exactly what they pay Dennis to do.

Nailed it. This is why we may be a better team without Pitta. He had a huge amount of catches but they were mostly worthless gains with no YAC and minimal first downs achieved. Stats don't win games. 

[rmcjacket23]

19 minutes ago, ByTheBay said:

Nailed it. This is why we may be a better team without Pitta. He had a huge amount of catches but they were mostly worthless gains with no YAC and minimal first downs achieved. Stats don't win games. 

Well I'm not certain that we are a better team without Pitta, given the players we have on our roster currently. 

But this certainly is a case of fans overvaluing receptions in a BIG way.

[ludy51]

3 hours ago, SepticeyePoe said:

"Hating on a cliche cliche... *ding*"

"30 seconds of logos" *ding*

[flynismo]

On 4/23/2017 at 1:51 PM, RayRayRaven said:

gawd u know a thang or to cuz you seen a thang or two

truar words was nevah wrote down joe is not a read and react kinda guy he is this centuarys version of Darrel lamonica

joe is not a thinkin qb he is a chuck it long qb he need a runnin game to be that but u sur know wher joe is still doan thing our office do though they thing hes gonna thing his way threw a game

what?

[The Raven]

9 minutes ago, flynismo said:

what?

I can't decipher it either. glad i'm not the only one

 

[SepticeyePoe]

10 minutes ago, flynismo said:

what?

 

1 minute ago, The Raven said:

I can't decipher it either. glad i'm not the only one

 

Sounds like a state farm ad.

[K-Dog]

God I love the "hide" feature.

[redrum52]

34 minutes ago, K-Dog said:

God I love the "hide" feature.

Why am I just hearing about this?  

[frozen joe flacco fan]

16 hours ago, The Raven said:

I wouldn't say I'm oversensitive to cliches. I just find them annoyingly vapid. A prevalence of cliches usually indicates an absence of actual thought. "I can't bring anything meaningful to the conversation so let me just fall back on this stupid cliche I heard John Madden say once during a game."

LOL. That's interesting! I think your reply to my post is vapidly vague. If you're able to read between the lines, U would see that I agreed with your analysis in part. As far as the absence of actual thought is concerned, I thought (get it?) my observations about the Packers and the Redskins of old were pretty spot on.  I'll try to avoid the use of any clichés here because U obviously have an aversion to them and quoting one would just be like deja vue all over again. It would be like waving a red flag in front of a bull.

I find your treatise on over-valuing receptions vapid. I'm sure that many of Pitta's receptions were the result of Joe going through his progressions and finding nobody as in nada body open. He was the safety valve. It is gratifying that U can at least acknowledge that we may not be a better team w/o Dennis. After all, he did lead the team in receptions. Of all things a receiver is supposed to do, consistently catching the football is one of the most important things he does. One of the main problems we had last year was that the throws to Dennis were far too predictable because there were no decoys on the field other than SSS. I would agree that the total number of receptions a receiver has is not as important as the number of catches he makes for first downs and TD catches in or out of the red zone. In this area, Dennis did not excel but, then again, who did? I have seen too many would be TDs thrown by Joe Flacco only to be dropped by the likes of Waller, Gilmore, Lee Evans and Breshad Perriman to last a lifetime. BTW, its not a cliché that Raymond Berry only dropped three passes in his entire Balmer career, is it? That's 'cause its a documented fact! 

I have said tongue in cheek before that Justin Tucker is one of the best receivers we now have on the roster based on his performance in practice warming up for the Pro Bowl. However, its not too far fetched albeit Pittiful (pun intended). So, after Day 1 in the draft our offense has not been improved. What do you think we should do to improve it? Get rid of Pitta and replace him with a player to be named in the next draft? OR, maybe we should adopt a different strategy altogether for our game plans this year. How 'bout if we hold the opposition to Zero points with a revamped defense and rely on the NFL's best kicker and arguably our best receiver so far to win every game by the identical score of 3 to 0 since we clearly have no red zone threats yet. If nothing else, at least the games would be more rapid and vapid but I guess "vapid is as vapid does", huh?   

[K-Dog]

6 hours ago, redrum52 said:

Why am I just hearing about this?  

Living under a rock?

Sorry. Just a week to go but still worth using. 

[redrum52]

4 hours ago, K-Dog said:

Living under a rock?

Sorry. Just a week to go but still worth using. 

Interesting.  Still wouldn't use it though.  I like to see stupid comments.  Mine definitely fit in that category as well.

[bravensfan52]

Run The Dang Ball

[redrum52]

16 hours ago, flynismo said:

what?

Where you been?

[flynismo]

6 hours ago, redrum52 said:

Where you been?

been trying to figure out what the heck that dude said. I'm still lost

Been insanely busy the last few months, then when I finally have time to come back on the boards...well, you know...

Whatchu thinking of the draft so far??

Edited Saturday at 01:12 AM by flynismo

[flynismo]

22 hours ago, The Raven said:

I can't decipher it either. glad i'm not the only one

 

i thought that dude's cat walked on his keyboard or something

[redrum52]

1 hour ago, flynismo said:

been trying to figure out what the heck that dude said. I'm still lost

Been insanely busy the last few months, then when I finally have time to come back on the boards...well, you know...

Whatchu thinking of the draft so far??

Loving it so far.  Hoping we make some moves for OL, but if this defense healthy can't close out games it will be a damn shame.  Offense will go as the line does.  What you think?

Edited Saturday at 03:01 AM by redrum52