Edgar

Trade up in round two

30 posts in this topic

Theoretically, the second of our third round selections would more than get us to the top of the second round. Or perhaps a fourth or even a fifth might do the trick if the move was not so fantastic.

In any case, who are the players you would move to get ? How far would you move and what you trade to procure ?

Some players who could be available;

Tim Williams

Budda Baker

TJ Watt

Rueben Foster

Malik McDowell

Dalvin Cook

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I think if we trade up its for a falling corner like Quincy Wilson - tbh I think I'd be more inclined to trade up at the top of the 3rd to get a guy who feel out of round 2 completely

of the guys you listed I think Tim Williams,  tj watt and Malik mcdowell are the interesting ones - even with the drugs test foster won't fall out of the 1st and Budda  baker (as good as he is) doesn't seem like a guy that should be traded up for

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dream scenario is keep trading down and hauling picks like this, lol:

 

35: R2P3 EDGE TIM WILLIAMS ALABAMA
47: R2P15 OT TAYLOR MOTON WESTERN MICHIGAN
74: R3P10 DESMOND KINg IOWA
78: R3P14 C ETHAN POCIC LSU
89: R3P25 WR ARDARIUS STEWART ALABAMA
92: R3P28 CB SIDNEY JONES WASHINGTON
95: R3P31 WR ISAIAH FORD VIRGINIA TECH
120: R4P13 LB DUKE RILEY LSU
122: R4P15 TE JAKE BUTT MICHIGAN
124: R4P17 DL NAZAIR JONES NORTH CAROLINA
127: R4P20 OT ERIK MAGNUSON MICHIGAN
143: R4P36 QB JEROD EVANS VIRGINIA TECH
159: R5P15 G ZACH BANNER USC
199: R6P15 C JON TOTH KENTUCKY
202: R6P18 CB BRIAN ALLEN UTAH
232: R7P14 EDGE AL-QUADIN MUHAMMAD MIAMI
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5 hours ago, Maryland said:

Adoree Jackson, Zay Jones, Watt

Those tend to be my favorite round 2 targets when I do those computer mocks lol

I'm really not crazy about any of the projected 2nd receivers. But do you think Zay Jones goes before our pick?

I wouldn't expect we would need to move quite as far or give up quite as much.

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Sydney Jones will not slide that far. He was a sure 1st rounder before his injury. If Jaylon Smith who couldn't play for the entire 2016 season and maybe ever could get drafted high 2nd, I'm sure Sydney Jones is a high 2nd as well. CBs go off the board so quickly these days

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Reubon Foster is still going round one. Probably not top 10 like he was planning on, but nobody is going to drop him from the third round from eating like an obese pig and drinking like a dehydrated camel before his drug test.

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8 hours ago, rossihunter2 said:

I think if we trade up its for a falling corner like Quincy Wilson - tbh I think I'd be more inclined to trade up at the top of the 3rd to get a guy who feel out of round 2 completely

of the guys you listed I thsink Tim Williams,  tj watt and Malik mcdowell are the interesting ones - even with the drugs test foster won't fall out of the 1st and Budda  baker (as good as he is) doesn't seem like a guy that should be traded up for

I don't know about Foster at this point. Hard to imagine someone not taking him late in the first at least but if he falls that far it's a possibility.

His medical and face to face sit downs probably determine that more than his diluted sample but this doesn't help him either.

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2 minutes ago, Edgar said:

I don't know about Foster at this point. Hard to imagine someone not taking him late in the first at least but if he falls that far it's a possibility.

His medical and face to face sit downs probably determine that more than his diluted sample but this doesn't help him either.

He won't pass our #16. I bet he still goes top 20 if not way earlier.

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I really don't see teams giving foster a pass with his multiple incidents. I won't speculate on how or why thee things happened, but they happened. He may be a great talent but he's still no kueckly or Willis for multiple reasons, and we're talking about a linebacker, not edge rusher or corner or WR or LT, he plays one of the least valued positions in football currently, whether you think that's illogical or not it's just the fact, teams are more focused on the pass rush and secondary and LBs tend to be one of the lowest considerations after those things. I think he really could fall to the second, Im thinking a playoff team takes him

Edited by JoeyFlex5
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6 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I really don't see teams giving foster a pass with his multiple incidents. I won't speculate on how or why thee things happened, but they happened. He may be a great talent but he's still no kueckly or Willis for multiple reasons, and we're talking about a linebacker, not edge rusher or corner or WR or LT, he plays one of the least valued positions in football currently, whether you think that's illogical or not it's just the fact, teams are more focused on the pass rush and secondary and LBs tend to be one of the lowest considerations after those things. I think he really could fall to the second, Im thinking a playoff team takes him

I have a different view, I think he is a top 5 playmaker in this draft. I think he is still taken early. The combine incident was really stupid and was a bad day all around for him. Luckily the Ravens have Bama ties.

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2 minutes ago, trevorsteadman said:

I have a different view, I think he is a top 5 playmaker in this draft. I think he is still taken early. The combine incident was really stupid and was a bad day all around for him. Luckily the Ravens have Bama ties.

Teams have concerns about his long term health as well. There are reports he might need a second shoulder surgery.

Starting to make Tim Williams appear a safe pick.

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I would trade a third round pick to get Watt in a second (assuming I would have to move to the browns spot to do it)....McDowell in a little more than a second

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21 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I really don't see teams giving foster a pass with his multiple incidents. I won't speculate on how or why thee things happened, but they happened. He may be a great talent but he's still no kueckly or Willis for multiple reasons, and we're talking about a linebacker, not edge rusher or corner or WR or LT, he plays one of the least valued positions in football currently, whether you think that's illogical or not it's just the fact, teams are more focused on the pass rush and secondary and LBs tend to be one of the lowest considerations after those things. I think he really could fall to the second, Im thinking a playoff team takes him

Two weeks ago you lol at me for suggesting Foster or Barnett would be available to the Ravens at #16. Still think so? How times have changed. ^_^

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I dont know that id trade up in the 2nd. I definitely wouldnt if it costs us one of our 3rds. Maybe a 4th.... maybe.

This draft is just too loaded with positions of need in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

I see trading back in the 2nd as a much more likely scenario to try and pick up another 3rd.

 

And naming specific targets to trade up for depends entirely on who we go with in the 1st. For example, if Barnetts gone and we grab Williams/Davis.... and the pass rushers start flying off the board end of 1st/early 2nd... and it gets to the point where a Tim Williams, Carl Lawson, TJ Watt or Jordan Willis is the only top tier edge rusher left on the board -- then id probably look at trading up because im placing a very heavy importance on coming away from the draft with someone who has the potential to be a top notch edge rusher.

But, if theres several guys available still im not doing it.

If somehow a guy like Cam Robinson is still sitting there at pick 40; i might think about it.

 

Other than that... i fully expect there to be 1 or 2 of the WR's id be happy with still available 2nd/3rd round (Juju, Godwin, Kupp, Zay Jones); a few CBs (Sidney Jones, Q Wilson, Moreau, Witherspoon, Tabor); and some OL (Feeney, Dawkins, Elflein, Dorian Johnson).

While trading up could mean we get a slightly better prospect at one of those positions, it hurts our chances of walking away with a very good prospect at all those positions.

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38 minutes ago, Edgar said:

Teams have concerns about his long term health as well. There are reports he might need a second shoulder surgery.

Starting to make Tim Williams appear a safe pick.

I still take him. He is a playmaker. Tim Williams is not a safe pick I am afraid he will be a 3rd down pass rusher, where as Reubon Foster is a 3 down inside linebacker.

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26 minutes ago, Bruce_Almty said:

Two weeks ago you lol at me for suggesting Foster or Barnett would be available to the Ravens at #16. Still think so? How times have changed. ^_^

A small incident wasn't enough for me, but with that, the drug test, and reports of his character I think is enough to push him down

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22 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

A small incident wasn't enough for me, but with that, the drug test, and reports of his character I think is enough to push him down

I'd be okay with Foster, but Im not sure teams will care that much. Shane Ray got cited for Marijuana possession the week of the draft and still went in the first. 

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15 minutes ago, jboy19 said:

I'd be okay with Foster, but Im not sure teams will care that much. Shane Ray got cited for Marijuana possession the week of the draft and still went in the first. 

Exactly and Foster is on a whole different level than Ray.

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15 minutes ago, jboy19 said:

I'd be okay with Foster, but Im not sure teams will care that much. Shane Ray got cited for Marijuana possession the week of the draft and still went in the first. 

It's not just this incident though, it's multiple concerns.

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1 minute ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

It's not just this incident though, it's multiple concerns.

Both issues you have occured on the same day. I would just chalk it up as a bad day if he has a good excuse. He acted pretty poorly at the combine with the hospital worker but hearing reports that the hospital workers were out of line with him that gives me a pass. He didn't fail a test and I honestly could see a player doing what he said he did to try to add weight before the combine. 

Like I said luckily the Ravens have a lot of Alabama ties so they know for sure draft day. I think he is drafted round one easily.

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15 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

It's not just this incident though, it's multiple concerns.

It'll come down to his character aside from the diluted sample and hospital incident I think. I personally believe that the most significant "character issues" are the ones we never hear about. Arrests and stuff like that always play a role, but I think that maturity gets judged off prospect visits, deep background checks and combine interviews.

I'd imagine if Mosley and Foster were as close as it seems, that probably helps him a lot in the eyes of the FO. 

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1 hour ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

I dont know that id trade up in the 2nd. I definitely wouldnt if it costs us one of our 3rds. Maybe a 4th.... maybe.

This draft is just too loaded with positions of need in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

I see trading back in the 2nd as a much more likely scenario to try and pick up another 3rd.

 

And naming specific targets to trade up for depends entirely on who we go with in the 1st. For example, if Barnetts gone and we grab Williams/Davis.... and the pass rushers start flying off the board end of 1st/early 2nd... and it gets to the point where a Tim Williams, Carl Lawson, TJ Watt or Jordan Willis is the only top tier edge rusher left on the board -- then id probably look at trading up because im placing a very heavy importance on coming away from the draft with someone who has the potential to be a top notch edge rusher.

But, if theres several guys available still im not doing it.

If somehow a guy like Cam Robinson is still sitting there at pick 40; i might think about it.

 

Other than that... i fully expect there to be 1 or 2 of the WR's id be happy with still available 2nd/3rd round (Juju, Godwin, Kupp, Zay Jones); a few CBs (Sidney Jones, Q Wilson, Moreau, Witherspoon, Tabor); and some OL (Feeney, Dawkins, Elflein, Dorian Johnson).

While trading up could mean we get a slightly better prospect at one of those positions, it hurts our chances of walking away with a very good prospect at all those positions.

An exceptional talent trumps (to me), a third round selection that fills a positional need. Particularly if the player in the third round is a developmental special teams player year one.

 

I agree it's more likely we trade down in round two.

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46 minutes ago, Edgar said:

An exceptional talent trumps (to me), a third round selection that fills a positional need. Particularly if the player in the third round is a developmental special teams player year one.

 

I agree it's more likely we trade down in round two.

But thats my point... its looking like the fall off in talent from round 2 to early 3 isnt very significant for the most part.

And id rather come away with 3 very highly rated players than 2.

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21 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

But thats my point... its looking like the fall off in talent from round 2 to early 3 isnt very significant for the most part.

And id rather come away with 3 very highly rated players than 2.

You won't get Foster, Watt, McDowell (fill in your favorite early 2 late 1 prospect) in the third round.

Unless you uncover a gem that no one anticipated, your not going to get as impactful a player in the third round.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Edgar said:

You won't get Foster, Watt, McDowell (fill in your favorite early 2 late 1 prospect) in the third round.

Unless you uncover a gem that no one anticipated, your not going to get as impactful a player in the third round.

 

 

1st, theres no guarantee that any of them are impact players.

It's doubtful that any of them get close enough where all we would have to give up is one pick to move into striking distance, so you're liking giving up both 3rds or 3rd and a 4th.

And for example's sake.... id much rather wait at 2 for someone like Tim Williams/Carl Lawson, and have a shot at Elflein/Witherspon or Sidney Jones.... than to throw all my marbles in on just 1 TJ Watt or Malik McDowell.

Foster wont get close. I like Ryan Anderson (when considering injuries, consistency) almost as much if not more than TJ Watt and hes almost guaranteed to be there at 2 if not our 3rd rd picks. And McDowell probably wont make it anywhere close; but i think we like Brantley and Wormley almost as much and they have a good shot to be there if we stay put. Hes certainly not a guarantee as a prospect by any means.

 

But all this is meaningless talk. You name a couple guys but without the context of who we took in the 1st and who is still on the board its a pointless conversation. Am I moving up for Watt if i took Barnett in the 1st? No. Am I moving up for Watt if Tim Williams, Carl Lawson and Jordan Willis are still on the board and im all but guaranteed to get 1 of them? No.

Am I moving up for McDowell if Feeney, Dawkins, Bolles, Ram, Cam, Elflein, Juju, Zay Jones, Kpassagnon, Sidney Jones, Quincy Wilson, Tre White, Adoree Jackson, Kevin King, Tim Williams, Carl Lawson, etc... are still on the board? No... bc id prefer several of them to McDowell, and if i have a chance to land 2 or maybe even 3 of those players as opposed to just 1 McDowell, im hanging tight - maybe even trading back to try and get 4.

 

Again its all about the board. If we're nearing pick 38-42 and the guy who's 20th on my board is still there and the next highest ranked prospect is the 35-40th... i might consider it. Unless the difference in my grade between my 20th ranked player and my 50th is very small.

There are so many variables to this type of question that there isnt an answer right now.

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That's sort of why I brought it up though. If someone you have ranked as a first round player is there and he is by the teams estimation, "a playmaker", then it ought to be a consideration.

And, certainly the player selected in round one carries weight in deciding. This is self evident. And, you're right, all of this is "meaningless" fodder to an extent but all of this indulges in the hypothetical. so does imagining the list of players you mentioned might be around to select or not.

It may not be as prohibitive to move as you think. Moving all the way to one according to trade value chart ( as nothing more than a guideline) would simply cost a third rounder and according to the numbers, most likely yield a fourth or at least a fifth in return...to go to pick one.

So, if you had a coveted player at 38 as you suggest, and you could get an early four in return........

You pick the player....mine are incomplete and mere suggestion. 

 

Edited by Edgar
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I think this year I would not prefer to trade up in the second round. When you consider the depth of talent in this year's draft along with how many holes we have yet to fill giving away a pick does not seem in our best interest. I also feel the more rookie contracts on our roster the better for salary cap management.

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It all depends on who we go in the first.

If we take Mwill or Davis in the first and Tim Williams-Carl Lawson-Watt I would think about it, but most likely would stay put. \

There is just so much potential in this draft that I would hate to lose picks, but...just depends who is available and who we take in the first.  My preference would be Mwill/davis then Tim Williams or Lawson, but doubt either will be there for our second unless we trade up.  I know we are speaking in hypotheticals for the sake of discussion, there is just too many variables for me to be sure what id rather do.  Also, if Cook is there in the second, that would be hard to turn down, but I believe in no way in hell Cook makes it past 20

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I'm starting to really like Malik McDowell. If he falls to the second Ravens should trade up for him. Dude is really unrefined but probably the second biggest physically gifted freak after Garrett. Some question his motor but I think he was just pissed that he had to do everything. 

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