Draft Rumor Mill

[Adreme]

1 hour ago, arnie_uk said:

I hate siding with sami but this post is just hot air. Ozzie was by far and away the best gm up until probably the past 5 or 6 years. Other teams have caught up and probably exceeded him.

No team has a historic track record like the ravens.

Many teams have a better current track record than the ravens.

That's simple facts. Out recent drafts have been poor which is why we have been floundering since 3 potential future hall of hamers left.

The young talent hasnt been up to scratch and when it was we didn't have cap space to keep em

It's amazing how once the Ravens started being a perennial playoff team the drafts started getting worse.  It's almost like drafting later reduces the chances of getting the best player in the,draft.

[52520Andrew]

Just now, Ravens4Real said:

Making the pro bowl is one of the most useless factors in determining if a player is good or not. Especially since fans hold the keys to a player getting in. 

I agree that it is pretty useless, I mean Andy Dalton has made 3 of them somehow. Still, it is a solid barometer to take with this big a sample size as there aren't too many all pro nods being given out

[Jonah DeVito]

1 hour ago, Sami84 said:

Zach orr lol..

 

yeah im talking about other talent outside of ST.

 

Zach Orr is the worst all pro ever.

Please explain to me why he is the worst all pro ever. 

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

2 hours ago, 52520Andrew said:

I don't think even the Browns could be that stupid lol

Watch the Browns take Jake Butt #1 overall

[JoeyFlex5]

2 hours ago, jboy19 said:

It's mainly his lack of instincts that I think would kill him at guard. His kick-slide gets enough depth and he plays with a wide enough base that I think theres something to work with at right tackle. 

Either way drafting Robinson makes me a Robinson fan and it appears I might need to prepare myself for that reality. 

his kickstep is the weakest part of his game, he totally misses on his kickstep at times and takes very shallow drops and gets toasted around the edge, its legit the biggest knock on cam

[KBoum]

17 minutes ago, Jonah DeVito said:

Please explain to me why he is the worst all pro ever. 

Because most of his tackles came from coverage bums or Mosley taking the block on rushing plays so Orr had the tackle in his face. When playing beside a VERY good Mike backer, most of the time the other LB will LOOK good. Remember :

- Ed Hartwell

- Jamie Sharper

- Bart Scott

 

[Sami84]

4 minutes ago, KBoum said:

Because most of his tackles came from coverage bums or Mosley taking the block on rushing plays so Orr had the tackle in his face. When playing beside a VERY good Mike backer, most of the time the other LB will LOOK good. Remember :

- Ed Hartwell

- Jamie Sharper

- Bart Scott

 

 

i actually rated bart scott highly with or without ray lewis. He was legit. Zach Orr was a fraud.

[allblackraven]

3 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Ravens draft picks have been selected to a combined 42 Pro Bowls since 2002. 1 more than the Patriots, and 3rd in the NFL

Dallas tops the list with 52.

 

Totally unrelated.... but, yea Oz sucks at drafting. 

To be fair majority of that is 3-4 players

[JoeyFlex5]

patiently waiting for this ozzie bash to turn into a flacco bash

[Ravenskid52752]

2 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

patiently waiting for this ozzie bash to turn into a flacco bash

Right smh 

[Deflated Football]

Not sure if this has been said or not, but I'm curious as to what Corey Davis meant when he stated his visit to the Ravens "was different" as opposed to his other visits. 

[Davesta]

4 minutes ago, Deflated Football said:

Not sure if this has been said or not, but I'm curious as to what Corey Davis meant when he stated his visit to the Ravens "was different" as opposed to his other visits. 

Not much. He hyped up titans by saying Marcus mariota was his favorite NFL QB in one interview. Then he retweeted a fan tweet about him being a future eagle. Can't believe anything this week

[Ravens4Real]

14 minutes ago, Davesta said:

Not much. He hyped up titans by saying Marcus mariota was his favorite NFL QB in one interview. Then he retweeted a fan tweet about him being a future eagle. Can't believe anything this week

Yep. All of these guys are just looking to get drafted. The higher the better. Prospects will say anything this week to improve their stocks.

With the way Foster, Peppers and Conley are handling the week, all of these guys are seeing money signs because they just keep bumping up the big board.

[Ravenskid52752]

 

 

Chad Forbes‏ @NFLDraftBites

 

I'll give you 2 names... Forrest Lamp, Reuben Foster. Expect address WR Rd2-3. Ravens bit shell shocked on Rd1 WR

[rmw10]

More on the Conley situation.  Obviously the grammar and prose are lacking, but thought it was an interesting read nonetheless.

http://www.nfldraftdiamonds.com/draft-diamonds-investigative-report-gareon-conley-maybe-the-victim/

[RaineV1]

13 minutes ago, Ravenskid52752 said:

 

 

Chad Forbes‏ @NFLDraftBites

 

I'll give you 2 names... Forrest Lamp, Reuben Foster. Expect address WR Rd2-3. Ravens bit shell shocked on Rd1 WR

Wonder what they mean with the shell shocked comment. That the Ravens think the WRs go early?

[Ravenskid52752]

10 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

Wonder what they mean with the shell shocked comment. That the Ravens think the WRs go early?

Yeah more than likely they go earlier than expected from what I heard Mike Williams and John Ross will be the first two off the broad with Corey Davis  to follow 

[RaineV1]

Well, if we can't get Williams or Barnett then I'll be happy with Lamp.

[Jonah DeVito]

1 hour ago, Sami84 said:

i actually rated bart scott highly with or without ray lewis. He was legit. Zach Orr was a fraud.

Yeah, maybe Orr was a little overrated, but he was still a good football player. Saying he was a fraud is straight up stupid.

Edited April 26 by Jonah DeVito

[Jonah DeVito]

2 hours ago, KBoum said:

Because most of his tackles came from coverage bums or Mosley taking the block on rushing plays so Orr had the tackle in his face. When playing beside a VERY good Mike backer, most of the time the other LB will LOOK good. Remember :

- Ed Hartwell

- Jamie Sharper

- Bart Scott

 

Well if you compare Bart Scott with Zach Orr then I guess you think Orr was a damn good LB. 

[RaineV1]

8 minutes ago, Jonah DeVito said:

Well if you compare Bart Scott with Zach Orr then I guess you think Orr was a damn good LB. 

Same goes for the Jamie Sharper comparison.

[jboy19]

2 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

his kickstep is the weakest part of his game, he totally misses on his kickstep at times and takes very shallow drops and gets toasted around the edge, its legit the biggest knock on cam

Id knock him more for getting lost in space and only being a pusher in the run game. Would want to have seen him finish more/play with an edge. 

Taking average/subaverage tackles with bad instincts and putting them at guard is pretty much how the Chargers demolished their OL. 

Edited April 26 by jboy19

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, jboy19 said:

Id knock him more for getting lost in space and only being a pusher in the run game. Would want to have seen him finish more/play with an edge. 

Taking average/subaverage tackles with bad instincts and putting them at guard is pretty much how the Chargers demolished their OL. 

you think getting lost in space is a bigger issue for a guard than a tackle? well i wont try to figure out your train of thought on that one... 

and getting push in the run game is a bad thing? again...

[lgcs27288]

2 hours ago, RaineV1 said:

Wonder what they mean with the shell shocked comment. That the Ravens think the WRs go early?

I think its more of a Ravens are shying away from drafting a wr in the first because of their experience of doing it in the past hasnt been that great.

[jboy19]

13 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

you think getting lost in space is a bigger issue for a guard than a tackle? well i wont try to figure out your train of thought on that one... 

and getting push in the run game is a bad thing? again...

For sure I think its more important for guards to not get lost in space, especially if Roman's going to be getting a decent amount of say in the run game this season. At Right Tackle, Robinson would be sealing off defenders more often than not and I think he should be successful in that role. Guys like Anthony Davis and Seantreal Henderson had decent stints at RT under Roman and those are both guys with some pretty similar limitations to Robinson.

When I say Robinson is a pusher, Im more referring to his bad habit of getting too high and trying to rely on his upper body strength too much- kinda like if you were to push someone into a pool. 

Either way, it's not easy for a player to make a transition to guard- we've all seen it attempted and failed more times than it has succeeded (such as DJ Fluker, Luke Joeckel, Ty Sambrailo among many others). Robinson also has issues with having never played any position but left tackle in his entire College/High School career- so regardless of if hes on the right side or at guard, that'll be an issue for him. 

 

[PurpleHorseman]

7 hours ago, 52520Andrew said:

I don't think even the Browns could be that stupid lol

Lmaooooooooooooooo

[PurpleHorseman]

11 minutes ago, jboy19 said:

For sure I think its more important for guards to not get lost in space, especially if Roman's going to be getting a decent amount of say in the run game this season. At Right Tackle, Robinson would be sealing off defenders more often than not and I think he should be successful in that role. Guys like Anthony Davis and Seantreal Henderson had decent stints at RT under Roman and those are both guys with some pretty similar limitations to Robinson.

When I say Robinson is a pusher, Im more referring to his bad habit of getting too high and trying to rely on his upper body strength too much- kinda like if you were to push someone into a pool. 

Either way, it's not easy for a player to make a transition to guard- we've all seen it attempted and failed more times than it has succeeded (such as DJ Fluker, Luke Joeckel, Ty Sambrailo among many others). Robinson also has issues with having never played any position but left tackle in his entire College/High School career- so regardless of if hes on the right side or at guard, that'll be an issue for him. 

 

Transition from tackle to guard succeeds quite often actually. When it fails it usually means the player can't play any offensive line position.  Joeckel failed at every position. Fluker was terrible as well. His balance is terrible. Joeckel has failed to get any stronger as the jags projected.

[jboy19]

24 minutes ago, PurpleHorseman said:

Transition from tackle to guard succeeds quite often actually. When it fails it usually means the player can't play any offensive line position.  Joeckel failed at every position. Fluker was terrible as well. His balance is terrible. Joeckel has failed to get any stronger as the jags projected.

My point is that it doesn't succeed nearly as often as people think it does and that the guard position, like any other position, requires certain traits. It's not a position for bad tackles.

Fluker was measurably better at Tackle than guard and Joeckel probably was too by virtue of setting the bar really low for himself. 

Edited April 26 by jboy19

[arnie_uk]

7 hours ago, Adreme said:

It's amazing how once the Ravens started being a perennial playoff team the drafts started getting worse.  It's almost like drafting later reduces the chances of getting the best player in the,draft.

Yea no. Andrew just done all the work on that. We had 3 top 20 picks prior to 08 and had heaps more success than recently.

 

[arnie_uk]

8 hours ago, 52520Andrew said:

From 2009 onwards...

2009:

Cedric Peerman somehow with the Bengals 6 years after we drafted him and he didn't even make the final roster

Total = 1

 

2010:

Morgan Cox was undrafted but we can count him to be nice

2010 Total = 2

New Total = 3

 

2011:

Tyrod Taylor made one in 2015 after he left here

2011 Total = 1

New Total = 4

 

2012:

K.O. made a pro bowl this past year after leaving us

Technically Tucker wasn't drafted by us as he was undrafted but we can count him as well

2012 Total = 3

New Total = 7

 

2013:

Juice made a pro bowl this past year

2012 Total = 1

New Total = 8

 

2014:

CJ has done very well for us here with 2014 and 2016 both being pro bowl level years for him

2014 Total = 2

New Total = 10

 

I won't go into the past 2 years as the players are all too young to know for sure but I will say that there is some potential with the 2016 class and I am not feeling too great about the 2015 class.

So we have 10 pro bowls over 6 years of drafting and I would say that there is still room for some growth with CJ and Jimmy Smith to hopefully develop along with maybe Brandon Williams getting recognized. 

I may do the classes from 2002 to 2008 if there is interest

 

7 hours ago, 52520Andrew said:

Yeah I am too curious to not do 2002-2008 here so lets do it

 

2002:

You may have heard of this guy named Ed Reed, he was pretty good. Went to 9 pro bowls

Since we counted the undrafted guys in recent drafts, we must do the same here. Bart Scott couldn't wait to make the pro bowl in 2006

Total = 10

 

2003:

Sizzle has been to 6

Ovie Mughelli made a pro bowl in 2010 with the Falcons

2003 Total = 7

New Total = 17

 

2004:

Didn't get anyone in the actual draft but Don Muhlbach was picked up as an UDFA before going to the Lions and making a pro bowl 8 years later

2004 Total = 1

New Total = 18

 

2005:

Derek Anderson had that one year in Cleveland he was good and made the pro bowl in 2007

2005 Total = 1

New Total = 19

 

2006:

Ngata of course made his 5 pro bowls

Sam Koch also was able to make a pro bowl in 2015

2006 Total = 6

New Total = 25

 

2007:

Ben Grubbs made 2 pro bowls, once for us and then once with the Saints in 2013

Yanda has been great making 6 pro bowls for us

Le'Ron McClain made 2 pro bowls

2007 Total = 10

New Total = 35

 

2008:

Ray Rice out of Rutgers our Running back

2008 Total = 3

New Total = 38

 

So yeah this is a lot more than 10 and also means that I counted the pro bowls differently than in the list since it doesn't add up to 42. Don't feel like figuring out where the differences are though so whatever.

This was more classes than in the first post(7 vs 6) but there were some really good classes there and our only top 20 picks were Suggs, Flacco, and Ngata compared to CJ for the more recent stretch. That did not stop our team from finding some serious gems though in Reed and Yanda along with some other good picks in Grubbs and Rice outside that range. Outside the guys listed though we had only 7 total pro bowls so a lot of that total is due to some really good players like Reed, Suggs, and Yanda(who accounted for 21 pro bowls between them and counting as I think Yanda has more in him). 

Also the 2004 and 2005 drafts were pretty bad

Thanks for doing that. 5 times more pro bowls. Only 4 of the post 08 guys made the pro bowl with us... 1 full back 1 kicker 1 long snapper and 1 mlb.

Compare that to pre 08, 9 players made the pro bowl with is... safety mlb pass rush dt punter 2 guards fb and rb.

Also worth noting only 3 of the 9 were high first rounders.

Grubbs mid to late first round

Yanda 3rd

Rice 2nd

A few undrafted.

Proves what I said. We haven't hit anywhere near as much on players who are that upper echelon guys.

If you even go back pre what andrew done of the top of my head you have cmac Lewis odgen to name a few.

Either: the game has developed and Ozzie hasn't caught up or other gms have just gotten better