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[News] Eisenberg: People Seem Completely Unaware Of How Much Change Ravens Have Undergone

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There's a great mix of experienced talent who are already familiar with the system and new blood that should inject a spark into the team on both sides of the ball. Hope the coaching can get the best out of them all.

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Sorry John but I do not see it as of YET. We still have major pieces missing especially on the offense. Harbaugh's constant rah rah gets old truefullyBUT what do you expect him to say??? My problem is that I am starting to believe that HE believes what he is saying and not clearly seeing the teams shortfall. Perhaps he should listen more to the fans ....

"Perhaps he (Harbaugh) should listen more to the fans..."

I only hope Harbs reads these comments on this site, or the Ravens will never have another winning season. Such a pity, Harbaugh had these brilliant fans in his locker room and on the sideline when the Ravens were making the playoffs on a regular basis and bringing the Lombardi Trophy to Baltimore, relying on these brilliant fans to make all the right moves for him and motivate his players. Why, Harbs, oh why have you turned away from the fans as your guide?!

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This article is misleading. It's insinuating that since the team has stripped away most of the starting players we had during our 2015 season, that somehow it will equate to us having a shot at a championship this season, and that pundits are wrong for overlooking us this season.. Seriously Mink?

We are overlooked right now for GOOD REASON. Nobody deserves to get credit unless credit is due. This team has been consistently going downhill since our 2012 SB season. You can rearrange, shuffle, cut & resign players all day, that does nothing but mess up a locker room. Years ago, when we cut, traded or released a player it was either because he was not valuable, or THERE WAS A CLEAR BACK UP GUY that was READY TO PERFORM. Hence, Jarret Johnson, Bart Scott, Osemele, etc. Under harbaugh, this team cuts starting players with NO CLUE of who can fill the shoes.

First of all, love the capital letters. That lets me know I had better pay attention to these brilliant facts...

Just wondering if the salary cap may play, oh I don't know, a small role in a lot of moves the Ravens make, or ANY NFL TEAM makes (how did I do with those capitals? I was hoping it would make my point seem more informed...). Yes, I'm sure the coaching staff and front office DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA (did that help things?!) what they are doing when they release or acquire a player, no plan whatsoever. Just whistlin' in the dark, I'd say. The Lombardi Trophy, the playoff appearances...pure luck and coincidence...oh, or due only to the Hall of Fame leadership skills of Ray Lewis and Ed Reed.

And, yes, this locker room is MESSED UP! (Hey, caps AND an exclamation point; wow, can't argue with that!!!) I mean, the stories of dissension and backbiting that emanate from the players on a daily basis, especially about "Dunkin' JoeNuts," as another seasoned NFL expert in this comment section referred to him, well, they're just ripping this team apart. Steve Smith, Sr. sure had awful things to say about the QB while he was here, didn't he?! But then again, who could respect a cat headed to the Hall of Fame (unless he used capital letters a lot...)?

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They are still "WAY" behind the Steelers. The offense hasn't changed. Play calling will be the same people, so that's at least 4 losses. WR's are poor, TE's are poor, the OL is "WHO EVER SHOWS UP PLAYS" ???? QB plays like his knee is still bad and his throws are way off!!
The "D" might be better but there isn't a Ray Lewis or Ed Reed to make them play like the are a top 5 "D" in the 4th quarter.
We still have years to wait .

"WAY behind the Steelers" -- yes, the Steelers certainly crushed the Ravens in their second game last year. The incredible stretch over the goal line by Antonio Brown in the final seconds was mere window dressing to push the spread past 30, wasn't it? How in the world were the Ravens able to upset such a vaunted and dominating opponent like the Steelers 3 of the 4 times they've played the last two seasons, especially with pitiful talent and coaching?! Just lucky, I guess.

"We still have years to wait" -- really? Oh nuts...thanks, though. I'd rather listen to your expertise than rely on the proven records of Newsome and Harbaugh. I must have been fooled by their so-called "success" and something called, I think this is right, "respect around the league."

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If Harbaugh and his staff can figure out how to coach, we can take down anywhere, anywhere, anytime. Big IF though as far as coaching goes. Last year was the most embarrassing coaching I've ever seen in any sport

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John your point is well stated, but an "8 and 8" record is a collar around the Ravens' neck going into this fall 2017 season. How will the Ravens break their pattern of 8-8 level of football? The answer starts at the top with wholesale changes. If you coach the same, you get the same results on the field, no matter who is on the field.

Seriously. The coaching was straight embarrassing last year. I figured it had to get better as the season went along too.......cuz it surely couldn't get any worse............It never got better. I was sincerely 100% baffled at times by coaching last year. It was like the mob had one over on Harbaugh

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John your point is well stated, but an "8 and 8" record is a collar around the Ravens' neck going into this fall 2017 season. How will the Ravens break their pattern of 8-8 level of football? The answer starts at the top with wholesale changes. If you coach the same, you get the same results on the field, no matter who is on the field.

Yeah this isn't even remotely true.

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This article is misleading. It's insinuating that since the team has stripped away most of the starting players we had during our 2015 season, that somehow it will equate to us having a shot at a championship this season, and that pundits are wrong for overlooking us this season.. Seriously Mink?

We are overlooked right now for GOOD REASON. Nobody deserves to get credit unless credit is due. This team has been consistently going downhill since our 2012 SB season. You can rearrange, shuffle, cut & resign players all day, that does nothing but mess up a locker room. Years ago, when we cut, traded or released a player it was either because he was not valuable, or THERE WAS A CLEAR BACK UP GUY that was READY TO PERFORM. Hence, Jarret Johnson, Bart Scott, Osemele, etc. Under harbaugh, this team cuts starting players with NO CLUE of who can fill the shoes.

You clearly don't recall the history of the Ravens that well...

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  16 hours ago, Chuckx999 said:

They are still "WAY" behind the Steelers. The offense hasn't changed. Play calling will be the same people, so that's at least 4 losses. WR's are poor, TE's are poor, the OL is "WHO EVER SHOWS UP PLAYS" ???? QB plays like his knee is still bad and his throws are way off!!
The "D" might be better but there isn't a Ray Lewis or Ed Reed to make them play like the are a top 5 "D" in the 4th quarter.
We still have years to wait .

"WAY behind the Steelers" -- yes, the Steelers certainly crushed the Ravens in their second game last year. The incredible stretch over the goal line by Antonio Brown in the final seconds was mere window dressing to push the spread past 30, wasn't it? How in the world were the Ravens able to upset such a vaunted and dominating opponent like the Steelers 3 of the 4 times they've played the last two seasons, especially with pitiful talent and coaching?! Just lucky, I guess.

"We still have years to wait" -- really? Oh nuts...thanks, though. I'd rather listen to your expertise than rely on the proven records of Newsome and Harbaugh. I must have been fooled by their so-called "success" and something called, I think this is right, "respect around the league."

I am going to agree somewhat with Chuckx999. YEs, the Ravens have beaten the Steelers a lot lately.

But, what about the other 14 games?
Steelers and Bengals are capable of winning more games.
This is why Ravens have been in the 3rd spot in the AFC North for the last few years. Beating them then missing the playoffs means nothing.

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18 hours ago, 20306cab said:

Just part of the reason he's pathetic.

I really wish sometimes our fans actually knew what having a pathetic QB was.  Then I remember Grbac and Boller....  how quickly some forget.

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  21 hours ago, 20306cab said:

Just part of the reason he's pathetic.

I really wish sometimes our fans actually knew what having a pathetic QB was.  Then I remember Grbac and Boller....  how quickly some forget.

You can focus on that, while I focus on the hopes of betterment.

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Harbaugh put the 2017 season squarely on his shoulders when he decided to retain Marty. Bisciotti will not tolerate missing the playoffs 3 years in a row, and 4 out of the last 5 years. Whether it is the right move or not, that is what is going to happen if we miss the playoffs and Joe/the offense doesn't take a major step forward this year.

The Ravens biggest problem has been the draft. We've missed on way too many first/second round picks lately: Perriman, Correa, Maxx, Elam, Arthur Brown, Kindle, Cody to name a recent few. We are not able to reap the benefit of having an impact player playing on a cheap, rookie contract (ex: Dak and Zeke). This forces us to look to FA to fill the rest of our holes. But due to Joe's large cap # and some other older dead money, we've been pretty limited. Hence the dumpster diving on CBs, only signing 30+ WRs, etc. Our later round picks have been good, but take 4 years to develop, and then we can't afford to retain them. Other picks have been good to mediocre: Jimmy Smith only plays 50% of the time, we traded Jernigan a 24 yr old 2nd round pick because he quits half way through a season, Upshaw (we used our first pick in the draft on an edge setter??? Cmon.)

The offensive coaching has probably been one of the worst I've ever seen, and really makes no sense to me. How can Joe Flacco throwing 50 times a game and averaging 4 yards a throw? That is literally insane, he is not Drew Brees. Run the freaking ball 30 times a game and then rely on deep play action for your big chunk, splash plays. He's obviously not accurate enough to be doing other wise (this is why I don't want to draft John Ross FYI). We have a QB with a cannon, two super fast deep threats, a potential pro bowl LT, and the best guard in the game. Figure out how to run the [profanity deleted]ing ball and have a play action offense.

Defense has been solid but can't close out games because we haven't had a pass rush in like 5 years. I don't care who your corners are; if you're giving Ben and Brady 15 seconds to sit and chill in the pocket, you are going to lose.

Last year's draft was probably our best since 2008 and we got 3-4 potential starters out of it in Stanley, Lewis, Young, and Dixon. Now we need to add an explosive playmaker, who makes an immediate impact, to help us close the gap vs. the steelers and pats.

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  11 hours ago, woolly61 said:
  23 hours ago, Chuckx999 said:

They are still "WAY" behind the Steelers. The offense hasn't changed. Play calling will be the same people, so that's at least 4 losses. WR's are poor, TE's are poor, the OL is "WHO EVER SHOWS UP PLAYS" ???? QB plays like his knee is still bad and his throws are way off!!
The "D" might be better but there isn't a Ray Lewis or Ed Reed to make them play like the are a top 5 "D" in the 4th quarter.
We still have years to wait .

"WAY behind the Steelers" -- yes, the Steelers certainly crushed the Ravens in their second game last year. The incredible stretch over the goal line by Antonio Brown in the final seconds was mere window dressing to push the spread past 30, wasn't it? How in the world were the Ravens able to upset such a vaunted and dominating opponent like the Steelers 3 of the 4 times they've played the last two seasons, especially with pitiful talent and coaching?! Just lucky, I guess.

"We still have years to wait" -- really? Oh nuts...thanks, though. I'd rather listen to your expertise than rely on the proven records of Newsome and Harbaugh. I must have been fooled by their so-called "success" and something called, I think this is right, "respect around the league."

I am going to agree somewhat with Chuckx999. YEs, the Ravens have beaten the Steelers a lot lately.

But, what about the other 14 games?
Steelers and Bengals are capable of winning more games.
This is why Ravens have been in the 3rd spot in the AFC North for the last few years. Beating them then missing the playoffs means nothing.

Oh to be the Bengals and lose their only 7 playoff games under Marvin Lewis since 2005, 4 of which were at home, never scoring more than 17 points in any of the games, being outscored 176-90 (average of 25-13) in the seven games, supposedly with a world of talent...

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  4 hours ago, The Mom Gene said:
  23 hours ago, 20306cab said:

Just part of the reason he's pathetic.

I really wish sometimes our fans actually knew what having a pathetic QB was.  Then I remember Grbac and Boller....  how quickly some forget.

You can focus on that, while I focus on the hopes of betterment.

And one of these days, fans will actually establish hope that is actually realistic and supported with rare things like knowledge, intelligence, and understanding of what they're watching.

That's what I hope for. I'll keep the hope for more victories for a later date when fans actually deserve it.

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  3 hours ago, The Mom Gene said:
  22 hours ago, 20306cab said:

Just part of the reason he's pathetic.

I really wish sometimes our fans actually knew what having a pathetic QB was.  Then I remember Grbac and Boller....  how quickly some forget.

You can focus on that, while I focus on the hopes of betterment.

I totally agree with "The Mom Gene", and would throw in Trent Dilfer as well, despite the Super Bowl win.

Flacco does need to improve during the regular season, there is no question. The play-calling in general needs to tremendously improve and not abandon a running game, mixed in with Flacco passes, that led to early scores and leads last year; it was mind-boggling at times. However, Flacco is nowhere near pathetic. Here's an advanced stat from ESPN.com that shows Flacco consistently in the upper half of NFL QBs (I've never said Flacco was an upper-tier QB, but he's certainly not pathetic):

Total clutch-weighted expected points added -- Flacco ranked 12th in 2016, 8th in 2014, 16th in 2013, 16th in 2012, 10th in 2011, 8th in 2010, and 12th in 2009. He did rank 23rd in 2015 (injury) and 26th in 2008 (rookie).

Total clutch-weighted expected points added on plays with pass attempts -- Flacco ranked 13th in 2016, 19th in 2015, 11th in 2014, 24th in 2013, 14th in 2012, 10th in 2011, 11th in 2010, 13th in 2009, and 26th in 2008.

Last year, "pathetic" Joe finished above the following in the Total EPA category: Carr, Taylor, Palmer, Roethlisberger, Mariota, Smith, Manning, Dalton, Newton, and Tannehill, as well as assorted dregs. In the Plays w/ Pass Attempts category "pathetic" Joe finished above the following: Manning, Wilson, Palmer, Smith, Mariota, Dalton, Taylor, Newton, and assorted dregs.

The point is some Raven fans want to discredit Flacco's postseason success from years gone by and fall into the "what have you done for me lately?" way of thinking. Again, he's not upper-tier, but he is a good QB.

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Harbaugh put the 2017 season squarely on his shoulders when he decided to retain Marty. Bisciotti will not tolerate missing the playoffs 3 years in a row, and 4 out of the last 5 years. Whether it is the right move or not, that is what is going to happen if we miss the playoffs and Joe/the offense doesn't take a major step forward this year.

The Ravens biggest problem has been the draft. We've missed on way too many first/second round picks lately: Perriman, Correa, Maxx, Elam, Arthur Brown, Kindle, Cody to name a recent few. We are not able to reap the benefit of having an impact player playing on a cheap, rookie contract (ex: Dak and Zeke). This forces us to look to FA to fill the rest of our holes. But due to Joe's large cap # and some other older dead money, we've been pretty limited. Hence the dumpster diving on CBs, only signing 30+ WRs, etc. Our later round picks have been good, but take 4 years to develop, and then we can't afford to retain them. Other picks have been good to mediocre: Jimmy Smith only plays 50% of the time, we traded Jernigan a 24 yr old 2nd round pick because he quits half way through a season, Upshaw (we used our first pick in the draft on an edge setter??? Cmon.)

The offensive coaching has probably been one of the worst I've ever seen, and really makes no sense to me. How can Joe Flacco throwing 50 times a game and averaging 4 yards a throw? That is literally insane, he is not Drew Brees. Run the freaking ball 30 times a game and then rely on deep play action for your big chunk, splash plays. He's obviously not accurate enough to be doing other wise (this is why I don't want to draft John Ross FYI). We have a QB with a cannon, two super fast deep threats, a potential pro bowl LT, and the best guard in the game. Figure out how to run the [profanity deleted]ing ball and have a play action offense.

Defense has been solid but can't close out games because we haven't had a pass rush in like 5 years. I don't care who your corners are; if you're giving Ben and Brady 15 seconds to sit and chill in the pocket, you are going to lose.

Last year's draft was probably our best since 2008 and we got 3-4 potential starters out of it in Stanley, Lewis, Young, and Dixon. Now we need to add an explosive playmaker, who makes an immediate impact, to help us close the gap vs. the steelers and pats.

1. If you're running the ball 30 times a game just for the sake of doing it, you're making your offense worse, not better.

Newsflash: the running game wasn't effective when it did run the ball. The solution to that problem doesn't involve running it more. Teams can be incredibly effective running the ball 20-25 times a game. We weren't, and so we didn't run it more. I'm not knocking the coaching staff for that, because I wouldn't continue to trot out a running game that was ineffective.

2. Because the running game isn't effective, and teams know they can stop our running game with a base formation, play action is irrelevant. It achieves nothing. The entire concept is to get defenders to come towards the line of scrimmage to open up the field. When they don't do that because they don't have to, then you're not opening up anything. All you're doing is drawing up a play that takes longer to develop, behind an inconsistent offensive line (perhaps the biggest issue).

Running it 40 or 50 times won't change that.

If you want to fix the offense, you get better up front on the offensive line and especially in run blocking, where we struggled big time. That will open up plenty of things.

The secondary fix is getting WRs who can actually run routes and get open in man coverage.

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All the optimism in the world is no substitute for a great OL. If the season started today we would be in big trouble.

Also an irrelevant comment, since it doesn't start today and the bulk of teams offseason acquisitions haven't even been addressed yet.

Most teams in the league, including some of last years really good one's, would fit into this same category. Certainly applies to everybody in our division.

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3 hours ago, theduug said:

The Ravens biggest problem has been the draft. We've missed on way too many first/second round picks lately: Perriman, Correa, Maxx, Elam, Arthur Brown, Kindle, Cody to name a recent few. We are not able to reap the benefit of having an impact player playing on a cheap, rookie contract (ex: Dak and Zeke). This forces us to look to FA to fill the rest of our holes. But due to Joe's large cap # and some other older dead money, we've been pretty limited. Hence the dumpster diving on CBs, only signing 30+ WRs, etc. Our later round picks have been good, but take 4 years to develop, and then we can't afford to retain them. Other picks have been good to mediocre: Jimmy Smith only plays 50% of the time, we traded Jernigan a 24 yr old 2nd round pick because he quits half way through a season, Upshaw (we used our first pick in the draft on an edge setter??? Cmon.)
 

Perriman is coming into his third year, without even having a TC with Joe, while I will say this is the year he needs to show why we drafted him, I don't think you can legitimately say we missed on him yet.  Maxx and Correa, its still too early to judge, and im a huge critic of Correa but even I know we have to give him some time to develop.  Kindle was a freak accident, just bad luck on the FO and for Kindle.   I do agree we need to draft our early picks, but lets not act like we are the only team that has drafting issues with their first pick.  Also, we normally nail our mid-round picks

Joe's cap hit is not as big as an issue as people make it out to be.  Also, what dumpster diving CBs are you talking about?  And  yea, signing 30+ year old WRs has really worked out poorly for us....what were we thinking. 

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  3 hours ago, theduug said:

The Ravens biggest problem has been the draft. We've missed on way too many first/second round picks lately: Perriman, Correa, Maxx, Elam, Arthur Brown, Kindle, Cody to name a recent few. We are not able to reap the benefit of having an impact player playing on a cheap, rookie contract (ex: Dak and Zeke). This forces us to look to FA to fill the rest of our holes. But due to Joe's large cap # and some other older dead money, we've been pretty limited. Hence the dumpster diving on CBs, only signing 30+ WRs, etc. Our later round picks have been good, but take 4 years to develop, and then we can't afford to retain them. Other picks have been good to mediocre: Jimmy Smith only plays 50% of the time, we traded Jernigan a 24 yr old 2nd round pick because he quits half way through a season, Upshaw (we used our first pick in the draft on an edge setter??? Cmon.)
 

Perriman is coming into his third year, without even having a TC with Joe, while I will say this is the year he needs to show why we drafted him, I don't think you can legitimately say we missed on him yet.  Maxx and Correa, its still too early to judge, and im a huge critic of Correa but even I know we have to give him some time to develop.  Kindle was a freak accident, just bad luck on the FO and for Kindle.   I do agree we need to draft our early picks, but lets not act like we are the only team that has drafting issues with their first pick.  Also, we normally nail our mid-round picks

Joe's cap hit is not as big as an issue as people make it out to be.  Also, what dumpster diving CBs are you talking about?  And  yea, signing 30+ year old WRs has really worked out poorly for us....what were we thinking. 

i think we are a great drafting team, and i am an Ozzie supporter. we just haven't been as successful as we used to. no way you can deny that. we have been great lately at our middle/late picks.

yea its too early to close the book on them, i agree. but if your second round pick literally isnt good enough to see the field, even as a backup, that's not good. what did he have this year, 3 tackles? the scarier part is we viewed him as a pass rusher. how did we mis-evaluate him so dramatically?

totally agree on the freak accidents. have had our share of terrible luck...pitta breaking his hips, Zach Orr having to retire, kindle falling down the stairs. sucks.

the drafting of old receivers has worked great. wasn't knocking it, just pointing out that we have never had the luxury of a young one developing with joe. have we ever had a #1 receiver in their prime? literally ever?

Secondary dumpster diving....shareece wright, kyle arrington, kendrick lewis to name a few. carr sounds good on paper because of his consistency but i dont think he is going to be a game changer.

In Joe's first contract, i would say you are right. This year, Joe's cap hit is literally the largest in the entire NFL...soo.....

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  3 hours ago, theduug said:

Harbaugh put the 2017 season squarely on his shoulders when he decided to retain Marty. Bisciotti will not tolerate missing the playoffs 3 years in a row, and 4 out of the last 5 years. Whether it is the right move or not, that is what is going to happen if we miss the playoffs and Joe/the offense doesn't take a major step forward this year.

The Ravens biggest problem has been the draft. We've missed on way too many first/second round picks lately: Perriman, Correa, Maxx, Elam, Arthur Brown, Kindle, Cody to name a recent few. We are not able to reap the benefit of having an impact player playing on a cheap, rookie contract (ex: Dak and Zeke). This forces us to look to FA to fill the rest of our holes. But due to Joe's large cap # and some other older dead money, we've been pretty limited. Hence the dumpster diving on CBs, only signing 30+ WRs, etc. Our later round picks have been good, but take 4 years to develop, and then we can't afford to retain them. Other picks have been good to mediocre: Jimmy Smith only plays 50% of the time, we traded Jernigan a 24 yr old 2nd round pick because he quits half way through a season, Upshaw (we used our first pick in the draft on an edge setter??? Cmon.)

The offensive coaching has probably been one of the worst I've ever seen, and really makes no sense to me. How can Joe Flacco throwing 50 times a game and averaging 4 yards a throw? That is literally insane, he is not Drew Brees. Run the freaking ball 30 times a game and then rely on deep play action for your big chunk, splash plays. He's obviously not accurate enough to be doing other wise (this is why I don't want to draft John Ross FYI). We have a QB with a cannon, two super fast deep threats, a potential pro bowl LT, and the best guard in the game. Figure out how to run the [profanity deleted]ing ball and have a play action offense.

Defense has been solid but can't close out games because we haven't had a pass rush in like 5 years. I don't care who your corners are; if you're giving Ben and Brady 15 seconds to sit and chill in the pocket, you are going to lose.

Last year's draft was probably our best since 2008 and we got 3-4 potential starters out of it in Stanley, Lewis, Young, and Dixon. Now we need to add an explosive playmaker, who makes an immediate impact, to help us close the gap vs. the steelers and pats.

1. If you're running the ball 30 times a game just for the sake of doing it, you're making your offense worse, not better.

Newsflash: the running game wasn't effective when it did run the ball. The solution to that problem doesn't involve running it more. Teams can be incredibly effective running the ball 20-25 times a game. We weren't, and so we didn't run it more. I'm not knocking the coaching staff for that, because I wouldn't continue to trot out a running game that was ineffective.

2. Because the running game isn't effective, and teams know they can stop our running game with a base formation, play action is irrelevant. It achieves nothing. The entire concept is to get defenders to come towards the line of scrimmage to open up the field. When they don't do that because they don't have to, then you're not opening up anything. All you're doing is drawing up a play that takes longer to develop, behind an inconsistent offensive line (perhaps the biggest issue).

Running it 40 or 50 times won't change that.

If you want to fix the offense, you get better up front on the offensive line and especially in run blocking, where we struggled big time. That will open up plenty of things.

The secondary fix is getting WRs who can actually run routes and get open in man coverage.

yep agree that goes without saying. of course we need offensive line to be better.

but i would rather ineffectively run the ball then roll out whatever offense that was last year again. would rather run crappily 40 times then have joe drop back 40 times. gives him more of a chance to get injured too.

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22 minutes ago, theduug said:

i think we are a great drafting team, and i am an Ozzie supporter. we just haven't been as successful as we used to. no way you can deny that. we have been great lately at our middle/late picks.

yea its too early to close the book on them, i agree. but if your second round pick literally isnt good enough to see the field, even as a backup, that's not good. what did he have this year, 3 tackles? the scarier part is we viewed him as a pass rusher. how did we mis-evaluate him so dramatically?

totally agree on the freak accidents. have had our share of terrible luck...pitta breaking his hips, Zach Orr having to retire, kindle falling down the stairs. sucks.

the drafting of old receivers has worked great. wasn't knocking it, just pointing out that we have never had the luxury of a young one developing with joe. have we ever had a #1 receiver in their prime? literally ever?

Secondary dumpster diving....shareece wright, kyle arrington, kendrick lewis to name a few. carr sounds good on paper because of his consistency but i dont think he is going to be a game changer.

In Joe's first contract, i would say you are right. This year, Joe's cap hit is literally the largest in the entire NFL...soo.....

Its pretty hard to be as successful as this team was at drafting considering we drafted JO and Ray Lewis in the same round, two of the best of all time at their positions, then Reed who is also one of the best of all time at his positions, Suggs, Ngata, Rice, etc.  Its a hard track record to keep comparing to.  That being said, I agree, its obvious we have missed on game changing players. 

Trust me, you most likely wont find someone who hates on the KC pick more than I do, but im still willing to give him time to develop.  Hopefully this year he gets more snaps, especially considering Orr has retired.  there were plenty of players I would of taken than KC, but hey....lets wait and see. 

Agree, Torrey is the best WR we have ever drafted, we got good production out of him, but he never really progressed, hence why we let him walk and get his money.  Hence, this is why Mike Williams is the number one guy I want this year. 

Carr wasn't really brought in to be a game changer, just a good starter that will do his job.  Imagine if we didn't sign those players though, who would we have had?  its a catch 22. 

Im not able to do the math and look things up right now, but I would be interested to see the percentage of our salary cap that Joe's contract takes up between the two with the inflation of the cap going up.

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All the optimism in the world is no substitute for a great OL. If the season started today we would be in big trouble.

Yes, let's start the season today...before the draft...

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3 hours ago, theduug said:

yep agree that goes without saying. of course we need offensive line to be better.

but i would rather ineffectively run the ball then roll out whatever offense that was last year again. would rather run crappily 40 times then have joe drop back 40 times. gives him more of a chance to get injured too.

LOL, I certainly wouldn't rather run it 40 times if we're not good at it. Pretty much no scenario I see where that yields more points on the scoreboard. And at that point, you're not concerned about keeping Joe healthy, because we're not scoring which means we're not winning.

And lets be clear... Joe's going to throw it 35+ a game in whatever offense we run, and that includes a more effective one at running the ball. Even in Kubiak's offense, he was throwing it 35 times a game. 40 might be a stretch, but there's no scenario where we go back to an offense where he's throwing it 25-30 times a game.

Heck if Joe averages 5-6 yards per attempt, which is pathetic for a QB, he'd still be moving the ball better than a crappy running game will.

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  3 hours ago, theduug said:

yep agree that goes without saying. of course we need offensive line to be better.

but i would rather ineffectively run the ball then roll out whatever offense that was last year again. would rather run crappily 40 times then have joe drop back 40 times. gives him more of a chance to get injured too.

LOL, I certainly wouldn't rather run it 40 times if we're not good at it. Pretty much no scenario I see where that yields more points on the scoreboard. And at that point, you're not concerned about keeping Joe healthy, because we're not scoring which means we're not winning.

And lets be clear... Joe's going to throw it 35+ a game in whatever offense we run, and that includes a more effective one at running the ball. Even in Kubiak's offense, he was throwing it 35 times a game. 40 might be a stretch, but there's no scenario where we go back to an offense where he's throwing it 25-30 times a game.

Heck if Joe averages 5-6 yards per attempt, which is pathetic for a QB, he'd still be moving the ball better than a crappy running game will.

agree to disagree. never saw anything that suggested our passing game was any more effective than our run game.

lets just agree that both need to be way better lol. bottom line is we need a better run game / oline or were looking at the same offense or worse as last year.

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  3 hours ago, theduug said:

i think we are a great drafting team, and i am an Ozzie supporter. we just haven't been as successful as we used to. no way you can deny that. we have been great lately at our middle/late picks.

yea its too early to close the book on them, i agree. but if your second round pick literally isnt good enough to see the field, even as a backup, that's not good. what did he have this year, 3 tackles? the scarier part is we viewed him as a pass rusher. how did we mis-evaluate him so dramatically?

totally agree on the freak accidents. have had our share of terrible luck...pitta breaking his hips, Zach Orr having to retire, kindle falling down the stairs. sucks.

the drafting of old receivers has worked great. wasn't knocking it, just pointing out that we have never had the luxury of a young one developing with joe. have we ever had a #1 receiver in their prime? literally ever?

Secondary dumpster diving....shareece wright, kyle arrington, kendrick lewis to name a few. carr sounds good on paper because of his consistency but i dont think he is going to be a game changer.

In Joe's first contract, i would say you are right. This year, Joe's cap hit is literally the largest in the entire NFL...soo.....

Its pretty hard to be as successful as this team was at drafting considering we drafted JO and Ray Lewis in the same round, two of the best of all time at their positions, then Reed who is also one of the best of all time at his positions, Suggs, Ngata, Rice, etc.  Its a hard track record to keep comparing to.  That being said, I agree, its obvious we have missed on game changing players. 

Trust me, you most likely wont find someone who hates on the KC pick more than I do, but im still willing to give him time to develop.  Hopefully this year he gets more snaps, especially considering Orr has retired.  there were plenty of players I would of taken than KC, but hey....lets wait and see. 

Agree, Torrey is the best WR we have ever drafted, we got good production out of him, but he never really progressed, hence why we let him walk and get his money.  Hence, this is why Mike Williams is the number one guy I want this year. 

Carr wasn't really brought in to be a game changer, just a good starter that will do his job.  Imagine if we didn't sign those players though, who would we have had?  its a catch 22. 

Im not able to do the math and look things up right now, but I would be interested to see the percentage of our salary cap that Joe's contract takes up between the two with the inflation of the cap going up.

yep. everyone wants to crush ozzie for not drafting another ed/ray. i don't think they realize how insane / lucky / awesome that was. literally two of the best ever at their positions on the same team. clearly not a sustainable track record.

yea, can't give up on KC just yet. he will certainly get his shot this year for some more playing time. lets just hope he steps up. or if kaufusi can contribute that would be nice too. have to manufacture pass rush somehow.

definitely like the carr signing and we'd certainly be worse without it. the best thing about it is that it frees up tavon to play more in the slot. and webb as a backup has to be one of the best backup safeties in the league there right?

i want mike williams or the best pass rusher available. whoever is better at 16...gotta trust the front office obviously. just hope for entertainment sake i dont watch 4 hours of the draft to see us trade back into day 2 lol.

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  22 hours ago, letitgosometimes said:

John your point is well stated, but an "8 and 8" record is a collar around the Ravens' neck going into this fall 2017 season. How will the Ravens break their pattern of 8-8 level of football? The answer starts at the top with wholesale changes. If you coach the same, you get the same results on the field, no matter who is on the field.

Yeah this isn't even remotely true.

Average = Average; until the owner makes changes at the top, it will be the same ole same ole.

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25 minutes ago, letitgosometimes said:

Average = Average; until the owner makes changes at the top, it will be the same ole same ole.

And again, I can spit out example after example on an annual basis of why your statement is completely false.

You can keep digging a bigger and bigger hole with these ridiculous, baseless premises if you want to, but it only makes you look less and less like you know what you're talking about.

If that's what you're going for, then you're succeeding.

Comes off as just a failed trolling attempt though, which I suspect is what you're really going for.

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  10 hours ago, letitgosometimes said:

Average = Average; until the owner makes changes at the top, it will be the same ole same ole.

And again, I can spit out example after example on an annual basis of why your statement is completely false.

You can keep digging a bigger and bigger hole with these ridiculous, baseless premises if you want to, but it only makes you look less and less like you know what you're talking about.

If that's what you're going for, then you're succeeding.

Comes off as just a failed trolling attempt though, which I suspect is what you're really going for.

another awesome response from rmcjacket23.............LOL...wow. just wow.

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We've made awesome moves this offseason and we're headed in the right direction. But it'd be nice if our 2nd and 3rd round picks contribute this year. At all. It'd also be nice if Harbaugh doesn't sabotage the season again

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