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[News] Late For Work 4/18: Who Wants To Make A Deal? Breaking Down Ravens' Trade Scenarios

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Rams targeting Joe Hortiz to head college scouting department. Who is the Ravens’ best compensatory pick? Edwin Mulitalo. The chances of the Ravens drafting a running back in first three rounds.

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Ozzie cant afford to miss on an impact player early. Trading back for picks sounds nice but the return for doing so hasn't panned out often.

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Ozzie cant afford to miss on an impact player early. Trading back for picks sounds nice but the return for doing so hasn't panned out often.

Agree. Stay at #16.

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Ozzie cant afford to miss on an impact player early. Trading back for picks sounds nice but the return for doing so hasn't panned out often.

I highly doubt this is the prevailing mindset in the Castle. Any such artificial extra expectation hinders objective analysis of the actual draft situations. I highly doubt Ozzie will draft any different than he would if we won the Super Bowl...

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  48 minutes ago, stuckonaboat13 said:

Ozzie cant afford to miss on an impact player early. Trading back for picks sounds nice but the return for doing so hasn't panned out often.

Agree. Stay at #16.

Even if there is a trade offer on the table which is VERY favourable for us?

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The 2012 Superbowl Champion Ravens was in large part a team that was 13-3 in 2006 before Harbs and Flacco, close to winning the Division in 2008, won the division in 2011 and 2012. This is not that team.
This is a team that missed 3 out of the last 4 playoffs and have not won the division in 5 years.

What they need are playmakers : Based on chance of availability
1. OJ Howard –BPA if he’s there at 16. I doubt it though
2. Mike Williams – Miss match, will win ball similar to Boldin, Evans, Benjamin, can make Flacco better
3. Barnett – loss Dummervil, Suggs is older
4. McKinley – speed rusher
5. Corey Davis – route runner, size, RAC
6. Peppers – If the above guys are gone, he’s BPA IMO, will always be around football
7. Cook – home run RB, running and catching out of backfield

Trading back is gambling when you are already behind. Yes, the Ravens can play Steelers, Patriots, and a lot of teams close, but moral victories do not win games.

This is a deep draft so the teams already ahead of the Ravens will get better too. Stay put and select BPA. No need to wheel and deal with a team that has been 3rd in the division for years.

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2 minutes ago, law215 said:

The 2012 Superbowl Champion Ravens was in large part a team that was 13-3 in 2006 before Harbs and Flacco, close to winning the Division in 2008, won the division in 2011 and 2012. This is not that team.
This is a team that missed 3 out of the last 4 playoffs and have not won the division in 5 years.

What they need are playmakers : Based on chance of availability
1. OJ Howard –BPA if he’s there at 16. I doubt it though
2. Mike Williams – Miss match, will win ball similar to Boldin, Evans, Benjamin, can make Flacco better
3. Barnett – loss Dummervil, Suggs is older
4. McKinley – speed rusher
5. Corey Davis – route runner, size, RAC
6. Peppers – If the above guys are gone, he’s BPA IMO, will always be around football
7. Cook – home run RB, running and catching out of backfield

Trading back is gambling when you are already behind. Yes, the Ravens can play Steelers, Patriots, and a lot of teams close, but moral victories do not win games.

This is a deep draft so the teams already ahead of the Ravens will get better too. Stay put and select BPA. No need to wheel and deal with a team that has been 3rd in the division for years.

To be completely honest I know people say Howard is a generational talent at tight end but I have a hard time believing a tight end goes top 10. Maxx Williams was the best tight end in his draft class and everyone talked about him being a 1st round pick. I know looking back Howard is obviously more gifted and athletic, but I still think he will likely be there at #16. 

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The 2012 Superbowl Champion Ravens was in large part a team that was 13-3 in 2006 before Harbs and Flacco, close to winning the Division in 2008, won the division in 2011 and 2012. This is not that team.
This is a team that missed 3 out of the last 4 playoffs and have not won the division in 5 years.

What they need are playmakers : Based on chance of availability
1. OJ Howard –BPA if he’s there at 16. I doubt it though
2. Mike Williams – Miss match, will win ball similar to Boldin, Evans, Benjamin, can make Flacco better
3. Barnett – loss Dummervil, Suggs is older
4. McKinley – speed rusher
5. Corey Davis – route runner, size, RAC
6. Peppers – If the above guys are gone, he’s BPA IMO, will always be around football
7. Cook – home run RB, running and catching out of backfield

Trading back is gambling when you are already behind. Yes, the Ravens can play Steelers, Patriots, and a lot of teams close, but moral victories do not win games.

This is a deep draft so the teams already ahead of the Ravens will get better too. Stay put and select BPA. No need to wheel and deal with a team that has been 3rd in the division for years.

OK, and what if all 7 of those players are on the board, and lets say for sake of example, Detroit (I picked them simply for easy math) wants to give us a 3rd rounder to move back 5 slots, as the draft chart says is approximately even.... you say we don't do it? That doesn't make ANY sense, because you can still get choice of 2 of those 7 AND another player in the top 100.

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Ozzie cant afford to miss on an impact player early. Trading back for picks sounds nice but the return for doing so hasn't panned out often.

Do you like Matt Judon? Guess how we got him.

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This draft is so deep....that it only makes sense to trade back!

there are over a dozen DBs that we could land in the late first or 2nd round
1. TreDavious White- CB- LSU
2. Jabrill Peppers-DB- Mich
3. Sid Jones- CB- Wash
4. Fabian Moreau-CB-UCLA
5. Marlon Humphrey- CB-Bamma
6. Cordrea Tankersly- CB- Clem
7. Jalen Myrick-CB-Minn
8. Chidobe Awuzie (sp)- CB- Colo
9. Quincy Wilson-CB- Fla
10. Adoree Jackson-CB-USC
11. Teez Tabor-CB- Fla
12. Desmond King-DB- Iowa
13. Cam Sutton-CB-Tenn
14. Budda Baker-DB-Wash

there are at least 8 pass rushers available late round one and into round 2
1 Tim Williams- OLB- Bamma
2. Takkarist McKinley- OLB-UCLA
3. Charles Harris-DE-Mizzou
4. Taco Charlton-DE-Mich
5. Zach Cunningham-OLB-Vandy
6. Tyus Bowser- OLB-Houston
7. Carl Lawson-DE-Auburn
8. TJ Watt-OLB -Wisc

There are at least 5 OL available late round 1 and early round 2.
1. Cam Robinson-T-Bamma
2. Roderick Johnson-T- FSU
3. Garrett Boles-T-Utah
4. Taylor Morton-T-W.Mich
5. Forest Lamp-G- W. Kentucky

At least 3 RBs
1. Dalvin Cook-RB-FSU
2. Christian McCaffery- RB-Stanf
3. Alvin Kamara- RB- Tenn

At least a half a dozen WRs
1. Chris Godwin-WR-PSU
2. Cooper Kupp-WR-EMich
3. Curtis Samuel-WR-Ohio State
4. ArDarius Jones-WR-Bamma
5. JuJu Smith Schuster- WR-USC
6. Zay Jones-WR-ECU

and a handful of ILBS
1. RaeKwon McMillian-ILB-Ohio State
2. Reuben Foster-ILB-Bamma
3. Jared Davis- ILB- Fla.


SO that is 39 players over the last 10 picks of round 1 and the next 32 picks of round 2. In other words over 42 possible picks there are 39 players that could really be a steal for us. IF we could trade back and end up with an extra pick there (or more) it would only make sense.

If we traded back and got somebody else's 2nd and 4th or something like that
that would give us two picks in the 2nd (lost of those guys above will be available to us and to land two of them would be great)

2 picks in the 3rd and 2 picks in the 4th.
This draft is so deep that while I am not typically a fan of trading back... I feel like it does not make sense to not trade back this year!

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  12 minutes ago, law215 said:

The 2012 Superbowl Champion Ravens was in large part a team that was 13-3 in 2006 before Harbs and Flacco, close to winning the Division in 2008, won the division in 2011 and 2012. This is not that team.
This is a team that missed 3 out of the last 4 playoffs and have not won the division in 5 years.

What they need are playmakers : Based on chance of availability
1. OJ Howard –BPA if he’s there at 16. I doubt it though
2. Mike Williams – Miss match, will win ball similar to Boldin, Evans, Benjamin, can make Flacco better
3. Barnett – loss Dummervil, Suggs is older
4. McKinley – speed rusher
5. Corey Davis – route runner, size, RAC
6. Peppers – If the above guys are gone, he’s BPA IMO, will always be around football
7. Cook – home run RB, running and catching out of backfield

Trading back is gambling when you are already behind. Yes, the Ravens can play Steelers, Patriots, and a lot of teams close, but moral victories do not win games.

This is a deep draft so the teams already ahead of the Ravens will get better too. Stay put and select BPA. No need to wheel and deal with a team that has been 3rd in the division for years.

OK, and what if all 7 of those players are on the board, and lets say for sake of example, Detroit (I picked them simply for easy math) wants to give us a 3rd rounder to move back 5 slots, as the draft chart says is approximately even.... you say we don't do it? That doesn't make ANY sense, because you can still get choice of 2 of those 7 AND another player in the top 100.

First, It's highly unlikely that ALL 7 will still be on the board. But I'll play along.

It's still gamble that not needed. What if we move back 2 spots? And Mike Williams turns out to be a beast. He goes to Titans who then would be another AFC team competing for a playoff spot with Ravens.

Also, What if the Broncos trade with Skins. Now there are 2 AFC teams picking a player higher than you.

IMO, trading back works when you already have a good team and need additional picks for depth and future. A team that missed the playoffs and have not won the divison should play the percentages and take the BPA

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  22 minutes ago, nj_ravens said:
  31 minutes ago, law215 said:

The 2012 Superbowl Champion Ravens was in large part a team that was 13-3 in 2006 before Harbs and Flacco, close to winning the Division in 2008, won the division in 2011 and 2012. This is not that team.
This is a team that missed 3 out of the last 4 playoffs and have not won the division in 5 years.

What they need are playmakers : Based on chance of availability
1. OJ Howard –BPA if he’s there at 16. I doubt it though
2. Mike Williams – Miss match, will win ball similar to Boldin, Evans, Benjamin, can make Flacco better
3. Barnett – loss Dummervil, Suggs is older
4. McKinley – speed rusher
5. Corey Davis – route runner, size, RAC
6. Peppers – If the above guys are gone, he’s BPA IMO, will always be around football
7. Cook – home run RB, running and catching out of backfield

Trading back is gambling when you are already behind. Yes, the Ravens can play Steelers, Patriots, and a lot of teams close, but moral victories do not win games.

This is a deep draft so the teams already ahead of the Ravens will get better too. Stay put and select BPA. No need to wheel and deal with a team that has been 3rd in the division for years.

OK, and what if all 7 of those players are on the board, and lets say for sake of example, Detroit (I picked them simply for easy math) wants to give us a 3rd rounder to move back 5 slots, as the draft chart says is approximately even.... you say we don't do it? That doesn't make ANY sense, because you can still get choice of 2 of those 7 AND another player in the top 100.

First, It's highly unlikely that ALL 7 will still be on the board. But I'll play along.

It's still gamble that not needed. What if we move back 2 spots? And Mike Williams turns out to be a beast. He goes to Titans who then would be another AFC team competing for a playoff spot with Ravens.

Also, What if the Broncos trade with Skins. Now there are 2 AFC teams picking a player higher than you.

IMO, trading back works when you already have a good team and need additional picks for depth and future. A team that missed the playoffs and have not won the divison should play the percentages and take the BPA

That's wishful thinking. You don't know what those guys are going to do. Having two gives you a better change than one. We grab williams and becomes a bust. It can go both ways so it really doesn't matter. The best chance in his never will happen scenario lol is to trade a couple spots back and you still get one of the guys on your draft board and an additional pick because of the draft being really deep in what the team needs. They aren't throwing players on the board. It's a reason they are ranked the way they are on the ravens board. Williams could be 15....who knows.

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This draft is so deep....that it only makes sense to trade back!

there are over a dozen DBs that we could land in the late first or 2nd round
1. TreDavious White- CB- LSU
2. Jabrill Peppers-DB- Mich
3. Sid Jones- CB- Wash
4. Fabian Moreau-CB-UCLA
5. Marlon Humphrey- CB-Bamma
6. Cordrea Tankersly- CB- Clem
7. Jalen Myrick-CB-Minn
8. Chidobe Awuzie (sp)- CB- Colo
9. Quincy Wilson-CB- Fla
10. Adoree Jackson-CB-USC
11. Teez Tabor-CB- Fla
12. Desmond King-DB- Iowa
13. Cam Sutton-CB-Tenn
14. Budda Baker-DB-Wash

there are at least 8 pass rushers available late round one and into round 2
1 Tim Williams- OLB- Bamma
2. Takkarist McKinley- OLB-UCLA
3. Charles Harris-DE-Mizzou
4. Taco Charlton-DE-Mich
5. Zach Cunningham-OLB-Vandy
6. Tyus Bowser- OLB-Houston
7. Carl Lawson-DE-Auburn
8. TJ Watt-OLB -Wisc

There are at least 5 OL available late round 1 and early round 2.
1. Cam Robinson-T-Bamma
2. Roderick Johnson-T- FSU
3. Garrett Boles-T-Utah
4. Taylor Morton-T-W.Mich
5. Forest Lamp-G- W. Kentucky

At least 3 RBs
1. Dalvin Cook-RB-FSU
2. Christian McCaffery- RB-Stanf
3. Alvin Kamara- RB- Tenn

At least a half a dozen WRs
1. Chris Godwin-WR-PSU
2. Cooper Kupp-WR-EMich
3. Curtis Samuel-WR-Ohio State
4. ArDarius Jones-WR-Bamma
5. JuJu Smith Schuster- WR-USC
6. Zay Jones-WR-ECU

and a handful of ILBS
1. RaeKwon McMillian-ILB-Ohio State
2. Reuben Foster-ILB-Bamma
3. Jared Davis- ILB- Fla.


SO that is 39 players over the last 10 picks of round 1 and the next 32 picks of round 2. In other words over 42 possible picks there are 39 players that could really be a steal for us. IF we could trade back and end up with an extra pick there (or more) it would only make sense.

If we traded back and got somebody else's 2nd and 4th or something like that
that would give us two picks in the 2nd (lost of those guys above will be available to us and to land two of them would be great)

2 picks in the 3rd and 2 picks in the 4th.
This draft is so deep that while I am not typically a fan of trading back... I feel like it does not make sense to not trade back this year!

The logic of your statement may fail for this reason.

Why in such a deep draft would someone give up picks to us?
Wouldn't they use their picks to obtain many players too?

And if they did, who is this great player they are willing part with picks to secure ?

He could be the next AJ Green, Patrick Peterson , T -Sizzle and what would you have?

The next Matt Judon, Correa, Alex Lewis, Dixon?

The difference in a lot of the Ravens games are we had average to good players and other have good to great players.

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  26 minutes ago, nj_ravens said:
  36 minutes ago, law215 said:

The 2012 Superbowl Champion Ravens was in large part a team that was 13-3 in 2006 before Harbs and Flacco, close to winning the Division in 2008, won the division in 2011 and 2012. This is not that team.
This is a team that missed 3 out of the last 4 playoffs and have not won the division in 5 years.

What they need are playmakers : Based on chance of availability
1. OJ Howard –BPA if he’s there at 16. I doubt it though
2. Mike Williams – Miss match, will win ball similar to Boldin, Evans, Benjamin, can make Flacco better
3. Barnett – loss Dummervil, Suggs is older
4. McKinley – speed rusher
5. Corey Davis – route runner, size, RAC
6. Peppers – If the above guys are gone, he’s BPA IMO, will always be around football
7. Cook – home run RB, running and catching out of backfield

Trading back is gambling when you are already behind. Yes, the Ravens can play Steelers, Patriots, and a lot of teams close, but moral victories do not win games.

This is a deep draft so the teams already ahead of the Ravens will get better too. Stay put and select BPA. No need to wheel and deal with a team that has been 3rd in the division for years.

OK, and what if all 7 of those players are on the board, and lets say for sake of example, Detroit (I picked them simply for easy math) wants to give us a 3rd rounder to move back 5 slots, as the draft chart says is approximately even.... you say we don't do it? That doesn't make ANY sense, because you can still get choice of 2 of those 7 AND another player in the top 100.

First, It's highly unlikely that ALL 7 will still be on the board. But I'll play along.

It's still gamble that not needed. What if we move back 2 spots? And Mike Williams turns out to be a beast. He goes to Titans who then would be another AFC team competing for a playoff spot with Ravens.

Also, What if the Broncos trade with Skins. Now there are 2 AFC teams picking a player higher than you.

IMO, trading back works when you already have a good team and need additional picks for depth and future. A team that missed the playoffs and have not won the divison should play the percentages and take the BPA

Look at mock drafts all over the web. Go to #16 to see who they give the Ravens. Then go look at #26-32. Every time there is someone there I bet you would be happy to take. So we could still get someone very good & pick up another 2nd or 3rd. Think what we could do with two 2nd's & two 3rd's!

We have two many holes to fill & a great opportunity to do so.

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  24 minutes ago, law215 said:
  37 minutes ago, nj_ravens said:
  46 minutes ago, law215 said:

The 2012 Superbowl Champion Ravens was in large part a team that was 13-3 in 2006 before Harbs and Flacco, close to winning the Division in 2008, won the division in 2011 and 2012. This is not that team.
This is a team that missed 3 out of the last 4 playoffs and have not won the division in 5 years.

What they need are playmakers : Based on chance of availability
1. OJ Howard –BPA if he’s there at 16. I doubt it though
2. Mike Williams – Miss match, will win ball similar to Boldin, Evans, Benjamin, can make Flacco better
3. Barnett – loss Dummervil, Suggs is older
4. McKinley – speed rusher
5. Corey Davis – route runner, size, RAC
6. Peppers – If the above guys are gone, he’s BPA IMO, will always be around football
7. Cook – home run RB, running and catching out of backfield

Trading back is gambling when you are already behind. Yes, the Ravens can play Steelers, Patriots, and a lot of teams close, but moral victories do not win games.

This is a deep draft so the teams already ahead of the Ravens will get better too. Stay put and select BPA. No need to wheel and deal with a team that has been 3rd in the division for years.

OK, and what if all 7 of those players are on the board, and lets say for sake of example, Detroit (I picked them simply for easy math) wants to give us a 3rd rounder to move back 5 slots, as the draft chart says is approximately even.... you say we don't do it? That doesn't make ANY sense, because you can still get choice of 2 of those 7 AND another player in the top 100.

First, It's highly unlikely that ALL 7 will still be on the board. But I'll play along.

It's still gamble that not needed. What if we move back 2 spots? And Mike Williams turns out to be a beast. He goes to Titans who then would be another AFC team competing for a playoff spot with Ravens.

Also, What if the Broncos trade with Skins. Now there are 2 AFC teams picking a player higher than you.

IMO, trading back works when you already have a good team and need additional picks for depth and future. A team that missed the playoffs and have not won the divison should play the percentages and take the BPA

Look at mock drafts all over the web. Go to #16 to see who they give the Ravens. Then go look at #26-32. Every time there is someone there I bet you would be happy to take. So we could still get someone very good & pick up another 2nd or 3rd. Think what we could do with two 2nd's & two 3rd's!

We have two many holes to fill & a great opportunity to do so.

"two many" oops! s/b "too many" or "six many"

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40 minutes ago, trevorsteadman said:

To be completely honest I know people say Howard is a generational talent at tight end but I have a hard time believing a tight end goes top 10. Maxx Williams was the best tight end in his draft class and everyone talked about him being a 1st round pick. I know looking back Howard is obviously more gifted and athletic, but I still think he will likely be there at #16.

Agree, no TE at #16. IMO if Williams is there at 16 we take him. If not trading out and falling 5 spots and picking up a couple of picks is not a bad move at all providing they can still get BPA that is on their board.

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  2 hours ago, stuckonaboat13 said:

Ozzie cant afford to miss on an impact player early. Trading back for picks sounds nice but the return for doing so hasn't panned out often.

Do you like Matt Judon? Guess how we got him.

I'll wait to see if Judon becomes an "Impact Player" or a "JAG" (Just Another Guy)

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  27 minutes ago, law215 said:
  40 minutes ago, nj_ravens said:
  49 minutes ago, law215 said:

The 2012 Superbowl Champion Ravens was in large part a team that was 13-3 in 2006 before Harbs and Flacco, close to winning the Division in 2008, won the division in 2011 and 2012. This is not that team.
This is a team that missed 3 out of the last 4 playoffs and have not won the division in 5 years.

What they need are playmakers : Based on chance of availability
1. OJ Howard –BPA if he’s there at 16. I doubt it though
2. Mike Williams – Miss match, will win ball similar to Boldin, Evans, Benjamin, can make Flacco better
3. Barnett – loss Dummervil, Suggs is older
4. McKinley – speed rusher
5. Corey Davis – route runner, size, RAC
6. Peppers – If the above guys are gone, he’s BPA IMO, will always be around football
7. Cook – home run RB, running and catching out of backfield

Trading back is gambling when you are already behind. Yes, the Ravens can play Steelers, Patriots, and a lot of teams close, but moral victories do not win games.

This is a deep draft so the teams already ahead of the Ravens will get better too. Stay put and select BPA. No need to wheel and deal with a team that has been 3rd in the division for years.

OK, and what if all 7 of those players are on the board, and lets say for sake of example, Detroit (I picked them simply for easy math) wants to give us a 3rd rounder to move back 5 slots, as the draft chart says is approximately even.... you say we don't do it? That doesn't make ANY sense, because you can still get choice of 2 of those 7 AND another player in the top 100.

First, It's highly unlikely that ALL 7 will still be on the board. But I'll play along.

It's still gamble that not needed. What if we move back 2 spots? And Mike Williams turns out to be a beast. He goes to Titans who then would be another AFC team competing for a playoff spot with Ravens.

Also, What if the Broncos trade with Skins. Now there are 2 AFC teams picking a player higher than you.

IMO, trading back works when you already have a good team and need additional picks for depth and future. A team that missed the playoffs and have not won the divison should play the percentages and take the BPA

Look at mock drafts all over the web. Go to #16 to see who they give the Ravens. Then go look at #26-32. Every time there is someone there I bet you would be happy to take. So we could still get someone very good & pick up another 2nd or 3rd. Think what we could do with two 2nd's & two 3rd's!

We have two many holes to fill & a great opportunity to do so.

We need a great player. And MOST of the time, the ones at the lower part of the draft are not as certain of a pick as the higher rated players.

For example Perriman, on paper looked like a beast. BUT he was available at 26. Why? health concerns, hands, etc.. Elam was a top 5 safety available at #32.

The further you move down the more risk you take. My point is with so many needs, why take on risk?

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i don't see us trading back and imo we are going after an offensive playmaker (WR) still would like to see us pick up mack RB from florida in the 2nd or third and if pat eflien is there in the second take him i wouldn't even mind moving up for him and get banner in the 3-4 round to play LG our offense would be almost as good as our D

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  1 hour ago, whobilly said:
  2 hours ago, stuckonaboat13 said:

Ozzie cant afford to miss on an impact player early. Trading back for picks sounds nice but the return for doing so hasn't panned out often.

Agree. Stay at #16.

Even if there is a trade offer on the table which is VERY favourable for us?

What do you have in mind Bio? It would REALLY have to be in our favor. With the Draft being so deep would a team be willing to make an unfavorable trade.? Put on your "OZ Hat" and lets me know what you're thinking. Would be interested to see some scenarios. Thank you.

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45 minutes ago, law215 said:

IMO, trading back works when you already have a good team and need additional picks for depth and future. A team that missed the playoffs and have not won the divison should play the percentages and take the BPA

I completely disagree.  A team with numerous holes is a team that should try to get....numerous picks. 

26 minutes ago, law215 said:

Why in such a deep draft would someone give up picks to us?
Wouldn't they use their picks to obtain many players too?
And if they did, who is this great player they are willing part with picks to secure ?

A team that values a different player than us because they have different needs.  Perfect example Is the Raiders, a team that is a legit contender and some consider the only team that can challenge the Pats.  They need help in the secondary so if a DB is available that they think will put them over the edge, they will want to move up and make that push.  Each team is in a different situation.  Its like you are comparing draft needs from the Browns to the Pats, every team has different needs therefore values players differently. 

 

14 minutes ago, BiggMack91 said:

i don't see us trading back and imo we are going after an offensive playmaker (WR) still would like to see us pick up mack RB from florida in the 2nd or third and if pat eflien is there in the second take him i wouldn't even mind moving up for him and get banner in the 3-4 round to play LG our offense would be almost as good as our D

This forum will explode if we trade back with Mwilliams or Corey Davis on the board, i might be one of those guys.  But adding a RB and a LG (rookies) would in no way make our offense on par with our defense. 

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  1 hour ago, law215 said:

IMO, trading back works when you already have a good team and need additional picks for depth and future. A team that missed the playoffs and have not won the divison should play the percentages and take the BPA

I completely disagree.  A team with numerous holes is a team that should try to get....numerous picks. 

  45 minutes ago, law215 said:

Why in such a deep draft would someone give up picks to us?
Wouldn't they use their picks to obtain many players too?
And if they did, who is this great player they are willing part with picks to secure ?

A team that values a different player than us because they have different needs.  Perfect example Is the Raiders, a team that is a legit contender and some consider the only team that can challenge the Pats.  They need help in the secondary so if a DB is available that they think will put them over the edge, they will want to move up and make that push.  Each team is in a different situation.  Its like you are comparing draft needs from the Browns to the Pats, every team has different needs therefore values players differently. 

 

  27 minutes ago, BiggMack91 said:

i don't see us trading back and imo we are going after an offensive playmaker (WR) still would like to see us pick up mack RB from florida in the 2nd or third and if pat eflien is there in the second take him i wouldn't even mind moving up for him and get banner in the 3-4 round to play LG our offense would be almost as good as our D

This forum will explode if we trade back with Mwilliams or Corey Davis on the board, i might be one of those guys.  But adding a RB and a LG (rookies) would in no way make our offense on par with our defense. 

You make valid points. It a matter of do you believe the Ravens have 'holes' or lack 'difference makers'

I believe Ravens had 11 picks last year. There are multiple guys currently on the team at just about every position.But they are 'just guys'. Ravens need difference makers not picks to fill holes.

Bengals beat us cause they have difference makers AJ Green, Benard, Boyd, Eifort

Steelers win cause they have difference makers Brown, Bell

We may split games with them, but they will win more games cause they have players that make the difference. I don't see that on the Ravens.

In fact, they lost Smith Sr and Dummervil. If they can't win more than 8 games with them, you need top talent to replace them

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51 minutes ago, law215 said:

You make valid points. It a matter of do you believe the Ravens have 'holes' or lack 'difference makers'
I believe Ravens had 11 picks last year. There are multiple guys currently on the team at just about every position.But they are 'just guys'. Ravens need difference makers not picks to fill holes.
Bengals beat us cause they have difference makers AJ Green, Benard, Boyd, Eifort
Steelers win cause they have difference makers Brown, Bell
We may split games with them, but they will win more games cause they have players that make the difference. I don't see that on the Ravens.
In fact, they lost Smith Sr and Dummervil. If they can't win more than 8 games with them, you need top talent to replace them

I believe we lack difference makers and have holes. 

You cant have a difference maker at every position.  The Steelers have difference makes, but where do you think they got Brown from?  He was a late round flier.  I find ironic that you use Bell, Brown, boyd, Benard as examples, who none were drafted in the first round, which basically goes against your point Yes you reduce the risk of taking a bust the earlier you pick, but you also want as numerous picks as possible because as time has shown, picking early in the first doesn't guarantee anything. 

Don't get me wrong, im not disagreeing with you.  If Mwilliams, Davis, Barnett are available, definitely grab one of them, I would hate to have to pick between the three but would most likely go Mwilliams considering how deep this draft is defensively.  But if all three are gone I am more than ok with trading back 6 spots with the Dolphins (example) because they value a DB still on the board and we pick up say, a third.  With the amount of talent in this draft, I want more picks, unlike last year, it was a weak draft

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3 hours ago, whobilly said:
4 hours ago, bioLarzen said:
  4 hours ago, whobilly said:
  4 hours ago, stuckonaboat13 said:

Ozzie cant afford to miss on an impact player early. Trading back for picks sounds nice but the return for doing so hasn't panned out often.

Agree. Stay at #16.

Even if there is a trade offer on the table which is VERY favourable for us?

What do you have in mind Bio? It would REALLY have to be in our favor. With the Draft being so deep would a team be willing to make an unfavorable trade.? Put on your "OZ Hat" and lets me know what you're thinking. Would be interested to see some scenarios. Thank you.

You trade back a few spots if you know who you want and believe that he will be there later. But staying put doesn't mean you are going to get a better player. It doesn't really mean anything.  Lets say we were to trade back a few spots and the player that we drafted didnt pan out, and the team that traded with us drafted a stud.  You can say we should have stayed put so we could have drafted the stud.  But you cant make the assumption that the FO would have taken that guy if they didn't trade back.  There arent any teams that go into the draft with the mindset that whatever happens no matter what they aren't going to trade back in the first.  There are to many unknowns.  You can come up with as many scenarios as you would like, but one of the biggest factors that will decide if we try to trade back is the FO board and who is left on it.  The compensation is secondary.

Edited by billiejean
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  4 hours ago, steelcityraven said:

This draft is so deep....that it only makes sense to trade back!

there are over a dozen DBs that we could land in the late first or 2nd round
1. TreDavious White- CB- LSU
2. Jabrill Peppers-DB- Mich
3. Sid Jones- CB- Wash
4. Fabian Moreau-CB-UCLA
5. Marlon Humphrey- CB-Bamma
6. Cordrea Tankersly- CB- Clem
7. Jalen Myrick-CB-Minn
8. Chidobe Awuzie (sp)- CB- Colo
9. Quincy Wilson-CB- Fla
10. Adoree Jackson-CB-USC
11. Teez Tabor-CB- Fla
12. Desmond King-DB- Iowa
13. Cam Sutton-CB-Tenn
14. Budda Baker-DB-Wash

there are at least 8 pass rushers available late round one and into round 2
1 Tim Williams- OLB- Bamma
2. Takkarist McKinley- OLB-UCLA
3. Charles Harris-DE-Mizzou
4. Taco Charlton-DE-Mich
5. Zach Cunningham-OLB-Vandy
6. Tyus Bowser- OLB-Houston
7. Carl Lawson-DE-Auburn
8. TJ Watt-OLB -Wisc

There are at least 5 OL available late round 1 and early round 2.
1. Cam Robinson-T-Bamma
2. Roderick Johnson-T- FSU
3. Garrett Boles-T-Utah
4. Taylor Morton-T-W.Mich
5. Forest Lamp-G- W. Kentucky

At least 3 RBs
1. Dalvin Cook-RB-FSU
2. Christian McCaffery- RB-Stanf
3. Alvin Kamara- RB- Tenn

At least a half a dozen WRs
1. Chris Godwin-WR-PSU
2. Cooper Kupp-WR-EMich
3. Curtis Samuel-WR-Ohio State
4. ArDarius Jones-WR-Bamma
5. JuJu Smith Schuster- WR-USC
6. Zay Jones-WR-ECU

and a handful of ILBS
1. RaeKwon McMillian-ILB-Ohio State
2. Reuben Foster-ILB-Bamma
3. Jared Davis- ILB- Fla.


SO that is 39 players over the last 10 picks of round 1 and the next 32 picks of round 2. In other words over 42 possible picks there are 39 players that could really be a steal for us. IF we could trade back and end up with an extra pick there (or more) it would only make sense.

If we traded back and got somebody else's 2nd and 4th or something like that
that would give us two picks in the 2nd (lost of those guys above will be available to us and to land two of them would be great)

2 picks in the 3rd and 2 picks in the 4th.
This draft is so deep that while I am not typically a fan of trading back... I feel like it does not make sense to not trade back this year!

The logic of your statement may fail for this reason.

Why in such a deep draft would someone give up picks to us?
Wouldn't they use their picks to obtain many players too?

And if they did, who is this great player they are willing part with picks to secure ?

He could be the next AJ Green, Patrick Peterson , T -Sizzle and what would you have?

The next Matt Judon, Correa, Alex Lewis, Dixon?

The difference in a lot of the Ravens games are we had average to good players and other have good to great players.

Why would teams trade up in a specific draft (even a deep draft) bc they have a very specific need. We have needs! There are teams out there who are looking only for a QB or a WR or maybe trying to get into position to get a Leonard Fournette, etc.

There are several players in this years draft that teams my feel they are worth trading up for. Myles Garret, any of the QBs if you are a team that needs a QB, Fournette, or Dalvin Cook, Mike Williams, Corey Davis or John Ross. OJ Howard. Lattimore, Jumal Adams, Solomon Thomas, Malik Hooker, or Reuben Foster. I could see teams with specific needs trading up for any of these guys.

Heck if we didn't have so many needs I wouldn't be surprised if we tried to trade up to get one of them. So - with that much high end talent in this draft... if a team has identified a specific player who they believe can be the next superstar in this league (and there are several that could be) why not try to trade up (or in our case trade back / allowing them to trade up)?

I think there are definitely quality picks in this draft who really can be the next AJ Green, Pat Peterson, TSizzle, etc.

Don't under estimate what Judon / KC and Alex Lewis can be just yet... they when you find starters in the draft... you did your job.. every so often you hit a home run and get a super star but trading back does not mean that we are passing on a super star...

In fact in this years draft... the more picks you have the more starters you will find and the better chance you have of one of them being a super star.

Finally the difference in a lot of games was that we were the most penalized team who couldn't get off the field on 3rd down and couldn't move the chains on third down. Hard to have better then a mediocre team like that. In the day and age of the salary cap.. the key is NOT to have some super high end players. Ask the Bengals and Giants and other teams who can get to the play offs but cant win!

The goal is to have as many quality players at every position. TO have no holes.... That is the team that wins in todays NFL. The Patriots don't have a bunch of superstars like the sqeelers but they win. The year we won our last SB... we didn't have all the high end super stars but we were solid everywhere.

Get as many solid picks in this years draft as possible. That keeps us under the cap and sets us up for 4-5 years.

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  3 hours ago, MadStorkSociety said:
  3 hours ago, law215 said:
  4 hours ago, nj_ravens said:
  4 hours ago, law215 said:

The 2012 Superbowl Champion Ravens was in large part a team that was 13-3 in 2006 before Harbs and Flacco, close to winning the Division in 2008, won the division in 2011 and 2012. This is not that team.
This is a team that missed 3 out of the last 4 playoffs and have not won the division in 5 years.

What they need are playmakers : Based on chance of availability
1. OJ Howard –BPA if he’s there at 16. I doubt it though
2. Mike Williams – Miss match, will win ball similar to Boldin, Evans, Benjamin, can make Flacco better
3. Barnett – loss Dummervil, Suggs is older
4. McKinley – speed rusher
5. Corey Davis – route runner, size, RAC
6. Peppers – If the above guys are gone, he’s BPA IMO, will always be around football
7. Cook – home run RB, running and catching out of backfield

Trading back is gambling when you are already behind. Yes, the Ravens can play Steelers, Patriots, and a lot of teams close, but moral victories do not win games.

This is a deep draft so the teams already ahead of the Ravens will get better too. Stay put and select BPA. No need to wheel and deal with a team that has been 3rd in the division for years.

OK, and what if all 7 of those players are on the board, and lets say for sake of example, Detroit (I picked them simply for easy math) wants to give us a 3rd rounder to move back 5 slots, as the draft chart says is approximately even.... you say we don't do it? That doesn't make ANY sense, because you can still get choice of 2 of those 7 AND another player in the top 100.

First, It's highly unlikely that ALL 7 will still be on the board. But I'll play along.

It's still gamble that not needed. What if we move back 2 spots? And Mike Williams turns out to be a beast. He goes to Titans who then would be another AFC team competing for a playoff spot with Ravens.

Also, What if the Broncos trade with Skins. Now there are 2 AFC teams picking a player higher than you.

IMO, trading back works when you already have a good team and need additional picks for depth and future. A team that missed the playoffs and have not won the divison should play the percentages and take the BPA

Look at mock drafts all over the web. Go to #16 to see who they give the Ravens. Then go look at #26-32. Every time there is someone there I bet you would be happy to take. So we could still get someone very good & pick up another 2nd or 3rd. Think what we could do with two 2nd's & two 3rd's!

We have two many holes to fill & a great opportunity to do so.

We need a great player. And MOST of the time, the ones at the lower part of the draft are not as certain of a pick as the higher rated players.

For example Perriman, on paper looked like a beast. BUT he was available at 26. Why? health concerns, hands, etc.. Elam was a top 5 safety available at #32.

The further you move down the more risk you take. My point is with so many needs, why take on risk?

Ray Lewis was picked 26th over all in 1996 - Antonio Brown for the sqeelers was the 26th pick in 2010. Tom Brady was a 6th round pick -199th overall - Marques Colston was a 7th round pick -There was a guy names Shannon Sharpe who played for us who was a 7th round pick. Adalius Thomas who we took in later rounds. Drew Brees was a 2nd rounder - I can go on for days about late draft picks who were multiple time pro-bowlers...

Beside it I could put a list of your 1st round busts like JGoff, Johnny Manziel, etc.... and that list could go on for days.

What I am saying is that the draft is a crap shoot. You do your homework and hope you made the best choice - you look for talent / and look to eliminate as many risks as possible.

In a draft this deep with talent. There is not much that separates a mid 1st rounder and a mid 2nd rounder. You get as many talented guys as you can.

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7 hours ago, bioLarzen said:

I highly doubt this is the prevailing mindset in the Castle. Any such artificial extra expectation hinders objective analysis of the actual draft situations. I highly doubt Ozzie will draft any different than he would if we won the Super Bowl...

I absolutely agree that Ozzie is going best player avaliable. Even if it means taking 2 WRs in the first 2 rounds.

I disagree with the idea that Ozzie wants quantity this year because it's becoming obvious that hes looking for quality this time round. He could have easily taken a 4th and a 6th for Jernigan and a 7th for Zuttah but he decided moving up was the better option.

keep in mind that we've drafted 29 players in the past 3 years and most of whom are still on the team. Add some good Undrafted FAs that we've picked up and we don't really have enough roster spots to keep them all. 

Of course if a team calls and offers a deal you can't turn down then Ozzie will take it. But don't be surprised if he packages 2 more picks to move up again in the second or third.

 

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7 hours ago, trevorsteadman said:

To be completely honest I know people say Howard is a generational talent at tight end but I have a hard time believing a tight end goes top 10. Maxx Williams was the best tight end in his draft class and everyone talked about him being a 1st round pick. I know looking back Howard is obviously more gifted and athletic, but I still think he will likely be there at #16. 

I really hope he's gone before we draft. If hes there at 16 then a guy we might have taken is probably gone.

thats probably why il make a case for Howard lol

Maax was the best TE in one of the weakest TE classes. He's a tough matchup for many linebackers and could be a good blocker some day. Howard can outrun most NFL safeties and is a matchup nightmare for anyone trying to cover him. He's just too big and too fast it's not even fair. his ceeling is 1000 yards year in year out as a TE. I love Maax but Howard as a prospect is in another stratosphere.

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6 hours ago, law215 said:

We need a great player. And MOST of the time, the ones at the lower part of the draft are not as certain of a pick as the higher rated players.

For example Perriman, on paper looked like a beast. BUT he was available at 26. Why? health concerns, hands, etc.. Elam was a top 5 safety available at #32.

The further you move down the more risk you take. My point is with so many needs, why take on risk?

You make a lot of valid points and ideally the 16th overall is not like a third rounder where 2 players means a better chance of one panning out. Drafting 16 overall is when you should take the BPA and hope he turns into a multiple pro bowler. A superstar in the making.

you also have to admit that this is a unique draft. Il use pass rush as an example. There's Garrett that's a full package prospect. Then there's a gap, then a whole bunch of great players but there's just a little dent on each guys package.

so theoretically, if both elite WRs are gone and Barnett is the best guy on your board at 16. Moving back to the mid 20s (plus a late second) could still land you Tim williams who is arguably just as good a prospect and also land ryan Anderson late in the second.

if we're moving back to get a 4th and 6th then all bets are off. Il find you and cry with you after the draft lol

 

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