Jonah DeVito

Who would you be most upset with at the 16th pick?

206 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

pretty sure its based on PFF's grades, not strictly production (in terms of sacks, tackles, etc..).

Although I'll look at pff on occasion, it isn't the be all end all as you know.  I'm not a fan of their grades for College players at all.

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2 hours ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Id be most upset if we drafted b@rossihunter2

or was it d?

I'm a big fan of d

but even if you all aren't with me you have to agree he's better value than taco charlton at 16

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52 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

I'm a big fan of d

but even if you all aren't with me you have to agree he's better value than taco charlton at 16

Idk i kinda like Taco's

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1 minute ago, SepticeyePoe said:

Oh, me too

But in all seriousness i do see the potential in him. Good character and he seems very coachable. He has a lot of tools. I guess im kinda talking myself into liking him because of the likely hood that we do draft him

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1 minute ago, ravensnation5220 said:

But in all seriousness i do see the potential in him. Good character and he seems very coachable. He has a lot of tools. I guess im kinda talking myself into liking him because of the likely hood that we do draft him

It's a struggle lol... I'm not going to start talking myself into him unless we draft him because I know it'll be a difficult process - at which point I will watch every bit of tape on him over and over again just hoping I see something new

until that time though I personally just can't see anything to like about him at 16

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1 minute ago, rossihunter2 said:

It's a struggle lol... I'm not going to start talking myself into him unless we draft him because I know it'll be a difficult process - at which point I will watch every bit of tape on him over and over again just hoping I see something new

until that time though I personally just can't see anything to like about him at 16

Hopefully the bengals or saints take him so we dont have to worry about that lol

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2 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Hopefully the bengals or saints take him so we dont have to worry about that lol

I'd cheer that pick even louder than any qb going ahead of us

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12 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Either, although some fish tacos are really dope. Depends where you get them from though lol. 

Totally agree

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On 4/19/2017 at 4:09 AM, JoeyFlex5 said:

I think giving Timmy a big deal would've been a mistake, even if he was the best damn DT in the league in 2017, Timmy strikes me as the type who will be the most frustrating person on the team for 3 years and then ball out in his contract year for more money, showing he always had the ability but only put it together when he wanted to get paid. and that's not a guy I want on my team. And if he DOESNT ball out in his contract year, then he's truly unable to stay consistent. It's a lose-lose to sign Jernigan. 

And keeping him here is a one year rental, something I'm definitely not fond of. If we aren't going to be winning it all this year with Timmy playing a major role, and he won't be back the following year, then get some compensation for him. This is the kind of move that makes bellichick a genius, but when we do it for a completely average player who produces more penalty yardage than he does sack/TFL yardage it's horrible? I don't get it. 

I liked Jernigan personally, but im not vastly overrating him like so many are. Based on the reactions I'd say Jernigan just may have been the most overrated Ravens defender 

Sorry for the late response. But no... Just no.

 

1. Zachary Orr was far and away the most overrated defensive player on the team last year. I know that everyone here loved him, but as @-Truth- and @BmoreBird22 pointed out, Orr got a ton of those tackles because Mosely ate the blockers and allowed Orr to run free. Orr was a decent ILB, but my god was maybe the most undeserving all pro I've ever seen. If there's on thing that pisses me off more than the Jernigan trade, it's the fans who say that CJ Mosely is "just another guy", and Orr had a better season. Nope. When Orr was thrusted into the #1 ILB spot because of CJ's injury, he struggled mightily. There's no surprise why. CJ made the defense work. He's our biggest asset going forward and there's no question about it. He's gonna be a Raven for life. 

 

2. There is no way in hell we would have gotten anything less than a fourth rounder from Jernigan comp pick wise. Even with his inconsistencies, a player with his talent would easily command $6.5 million on the open market. Which btw, given that our cap situation is significantly better next season, we could have easily afforded to keep him. That obviously wasn't in our plans(which is foolish and I'll explain why in the next point), but the return absolutely SUCKED. If we had traded him outright for that Eagles third rounder and not given up our own pick, you would hear 0 complaints from me and I'm a huge Jernigan fan. In my eyes, that'd be a solid trade.

 

3. Sorry. But we picked the wrong guy. Timmy Jernigan was an inconsistent pass rusher, but was a consistently excellent run defender who fit the defense well and was young. I'd rather have a guy who is very inconsistent as a pass rusher like Jernigan, but when he's hot he turns it on, then a guy who only plays 80% of the snaps. Given that the nfl has evolved into more of a passing league, Jernigan's ability to play three downs makes him, at least in my eyes, a more valuable commodity. I know he flat out dissapeared at times, but it's not like he was getting any help either. If we had more of a pass rush, I think we would have seen more pressures and sacks from the man. He's not an all pro, he's not even a pro bowler. But finding a defensive lineman who can rush the passer at a decent level is harder than most people think. And we just traded away our proven/best guy. For pennies on the dollar. 

 

4. Finally, the returns are idiotic. Timmy Jernigan playing next to two very good pass rusher is probably gonna have a season where he gets 6-8, possibly 10 sacks. The Eagles would probably be inclined to sign him again afterwards, for a sizeable contract but one that'd be well deserved, and they suddenly have one of the better defensive tackle tandems in the league, and they basically gave up nothing to get him. I don't give a damn if he is inconsistent, trading up 20 spots and giving away your best pass rusher, even if he is a locker room problem, is a HORRIBLE return. It literally makes no sense from a logical standpoint. The Eagles paid pennies for a dude who as a total package is an above average player, and they move down and still get to keep a pick in the round. I can personally guarentee you that Timmy, especially as a proven commodity thus far, is going to be better than at least 90% of the players drafted in the third round this year. 

 

I could go on and on about why this trade was totally and utterly idiotic, but honestly, it's post 4/20 in the state of Colorado. I'm going to bed lol

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2 hours ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

1. Zachary Orr was far and away the most overrated defensive player on the team last year.

 

2. There is no way in hell we would have gotten anything less than a fourth rounder from Jernigan comp pick wise. Even with his inconsistencies, a player with his talent would easily command $6.5 million on the open market. Which btw, given that our cap situation is significantly better next season, we could have easily afforded to keep him. That obviously wasn't in our plans(which is foolish and I'll explain why in the next point), but the return absolutely SUCKED. If we had traded him outright for that Eagles third rounder and not given up our own pick, you would hear 0 complaints from me and I'm a huge Jernigan fan. In my eyes, that'd be a solid trade.

 

3. Sorry. But we picked the wrong guy. Timmy Jernigan was an inconsistent pass rusher, but was a consistently excellent run defender who fit the defense well and was young. I'd rather have a guy who is very inconsistent as a pass rusher like Jernigan, but when he's hot he turns it on, then a guy who only plays 80% of the snaps. Given that the nfl has evolved into more of a passing league, Jernigan's ability to play three downs makes him, at least in my eyes, a more valuable commodity. I know he flat out dissapeared at times, but it's not like he was getting any help either. If we had more of a pass rush, I think we would have seen more pressures and sacks from the man. He's not an all pro, he's not even a pro bowler. But finding a defensive lineman who can rush the passer at a decent level is harder than most people think. And we just traded away our proven/best guy. For pennies on the dollar. 

 

4. Finally, the returns are idiotic. Timmy Jernigan playing next to two very good pass rusher is probably gonna have a season where he gets 6-8, possibly 10 sacks. The Eagles would probably be inclined to sign him again afterwards, for a sizeable contract but one that'd be well deserved, and they suddenly have one of the better defensive tackle tandems in the league, and they basically gave up nothing to get him.

I respectfully disagree on.. basically every point :D

1. I don´t think people here think Orr was an all-Pro worthy ILB but rather an overachiever, which of course made of him a fans´ favourite. 

2. After the suspension of Ngata (and later on his departure) he should´ve taken over the DT spot but didn´t do well enough despite his snaps count increased from 28, to 50, to 60%. Way too inconsistent to be worth 6M/y in a team like ours (where that´s the money you can pay for a very solid DB, look at Weddle with 3.5M or Jeff with 5.5M).
Sure, someone else with an insane cap space would pay him that and even more but with the cap increasing and the 3rd round comps netting something above 10M/y I´d rather say there´s "no way in hell we would have gotten anything MORE than a fourth rounder from Jernigan".   
You can make a case for us re-signing him next year but as I wrote in the specific Timmy thread we underestimate the amount of informations we fans aren´t given about our own players. He failed one drug test prior the combine, had some injuries (albeit not too manies) throughout these years. FO has a better take on the probabilities of him getting hurt or suspended soon. Only 2017 season will tell about this point.

3. When making such a statement make sure your point is backed up by the stats. Both Timmy and Brandon played exactly 60% of the defensive snaps. At this point the question is: do you play the inconsistent pass-rusher or the main reason the Ravens have been a top 5 run stopping D in the last years?
We all know how tough it was for our passing game. Letting Williams go would´ve meant putting question marks on what we used to excel, too. To me, the choice is a no brainer. BTW the best pass-rushers on each roster barely played more than 80% of the team snaps (you even have Wake, Sheards and others sitting on the 50-55% mark).  

 4. I had the same feeling about the return, at first. However, look at what players will possibly slide to the early 3rd this year. It´s basically like having a 2nd last year (depth wise). Sure, having one more pick is a better value but the Eagles are getting a player who´s hitting the last year of his rookie contract. It´s like they´re taking a gamble on a 1-year prove it deal. If he underachieves or something happens they just let him walk in 2018. They didn´t pay much because Jernigan, at this point of his career especially, is by no mean a guarantee. 
We´ll again have to wait for the end of 2018 to tell whether our future #74 is worth the deal.

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I see Timmy as a one year rental if he stays, that's all. I understand some wanna see his production this year, but if we aren't a super bowl caliber team then I'm not really interested when we can get a return for the guy. And I just don't think his production would've come close to putting us over the top. 

Any other year, I'd say whatever, but this draft, 25 spots in the third is huge. That could be the difference between landing a Tim williams and settling for an average player

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Just a note on trading Jernigan and getting a return now vs getting it two years from now in a later round-

This is being praised as one of the top DB classes ever by some scouts. Getting another very high third in a loaded DB class (Ravens and DB issues have been going on for a while), so that's a huge deal.

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I don't get the hate on Barnett here. Have you guys seen him bend around the edge ? His hands skills at this point are VERY good for a very YOUNG age player. Add some training from NFL coaches he'll be great. Yeah he's not the most athletic freak but I mean this guy is very cerebral on the field as well.... he's not getting faked like hell or he doenst seem lost on any play. He understands the game.

 

In my mind he's a top 10-15 pick so when I see some fans here not wanting him at 16 I'm like come on.

Best realistic case scenario at 16 :

-Barnett

-Corey Davis

-Forrest Lamp. I know once again some of ya'll don,t like O-Line but this guy reminds me a bit of Yanda in term of tecnique. He plays such a sound game. Not a flashy pick I know but he would anchor the Right side for years to come. What is the new trend in the NFL ? Pass rushers on the left side playing versus RT that can't block. Von Miller, Mack, Watt, J. Houston. Thats why the Lions gave that much money to Wagner. And I'll be real honest with you, I'm a defense guy with a defensive mindset. But can't get over the facts that the Ravens need a playmaker WR and they need to add either a Guard or RT depending on where Lewis plays next year.

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2 minutes ago, KBoum said:

I don't get the hate on Barnett here. Have you guys seen him bend around the edge ? His hands skills at this point are VERY good for a very YOUNG age player. Add some training from NFL coaches he'll be great. Yeah he's not the most athletic freak but I mean this guy is very cerebral on the field as well.... he's not getting faked like hell or he doenst seem lost on any play. He understands the game.

 

In my mind he's a top 10-15 pick so when I see some fans here not wanting him at 16 I'm like come on.

Best realistic case scenario at 16 :

-Barnett

-Corey Davis

-Forrest Lamp. I know once again some of ya'll don,t like O-Line but this guy reminds me a bit of Yanda in term of tecnique. He plays such a sound game. Not a flashy pick I know but he would anchor the Right side for years to come. What is the new trend in the NFL ? Pass rushers on the left side playing versus RT that can't block. Von Miller, Mack, Watt, J. Houston. Thats why the Lions gave that much money to Wagner. And I'll be real honest with you, I'm a defense guy with a defensive mindset. But can't get over the facts that the Ravens need a playmaker WR and they need to add either a Guard or RT depending on where Lewis plays next year.

Seems to me only one person here dislikes Barnett, and all but like 2 or 3 more people have a straight up love affair with the guy.

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7 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Seems to me only one person here dislikes Barnett, and all but like 2 or 3 more people have a straight up love affair with the guy.

Well I'm sorry I didn't read the entire thread I just read the comments on the first 2 pages and seemed to me he was a very not popular pick here. My mistake 

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5 hours ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

Sorry for the late response. But no... Just no.

 

1. Zachary Orr was far and away the most overrated defensive player on the team last year. I know that everyone here loved him, but as @-Truth- and @BmoreBird22 pointed out, Orr got a ton of those tackles because Mosely ate the blockers and allowed Orr to run free. Orr was a decent ILB, but my god was maybe the most undeserving all pro I've ever seen. If there's on thing that pisses me off more than the Jernigan trade, it's the fans who say that CJ Mosely is "just another guy", and Orr had a better season. Nope. When Orr was thrusted into the #1 ILB spot because of CJ's injury, he struggled mightily. There's no surprise why. CJ made the defense work. He's our biggest asset going forward and there's no question about it. He's gonna be a Raven for life. 

 

2. There is no way in hell we would have gotten anything less than a fourth rounder from Jernigan comp pick wise. Even with his inconsistencies, a player with his talent would easily command $6.5 million on the open market. Which btw, given that our cap situation is significantly better next season, we could have easily afforded to keep him. That obviously wasn't in our plans(which is foolish and I'll explain why in the next point), but the return absolutely SUCKED. If we had traded him outright for that Eagles third rounder and not given up our own pick, you would hear 0 complaints from me and I'm a huge Jernigan fan. In my eyes, that'd be a solid trade.

 

3. Sorry. But we picked the wrong guy. Timmy Jernigan was an inconsistent pass rusher, but was a consistently excellent run defender who fit the defense well and was young. I'd rather have a guy who is very inconsistent as a pass rusher like Jernigan, but when he's hot he turns it on, then a guy who only plays 80% of the snaps. Given that the nfl has evolved into more of a passing league, Jernigan's ability to play three downs makes him, at least in my eyes, a more valuable commodity. I know he flat out dissapeared at times, but it's not like he was getting any help either. If we had more of a pass rush, I think we would have seen more pressures and sacks from the man. He's not an all pro, he's not even a pro bowler. But finding a defensive lineman who can rush the passer at a decent level is harder than most people think. And we just traded away our proven/best guy. For pennies on the dollar. 

 

4. Finally, the returns are idiotic. Timmy Jernigan playing next to two very good pass rusher is probably gonna have a season where he gets 6-8, possibly 10 sacks. The Eagles would probably be inclined to sign him again afterwards, for a sizeable contract but one that'd be well deserved, and they suddenly have one of the better defensive tackle tandems in the league, and they basically gave up nothing to get him. I don't give a damn if he is inconsistent, trading up 20 spots and giving away your best pass rusher, even if he is a locker room problem, is a HORRIBLE return. It literally makes no sense from a logical standpoint. The Eagles paid pennies for a dude who as a total package is an above average player, and they move down and still get to keep a pick in the round. I can personally guarentee you that Timmy, especially as a proven commodity thus far, is going to be better than at least 90% of the players drafted in the third round this year. 

 

I could go on and on about why this trade was totally and utterly idiotic, but honestly, it's post 4/20 in the state of Colorado. I'm going to bed lol

Brandon Williams is a hard worker dedicated to football. Timmy Jernigan showed talent, but he was so inconsistent that he started losing a bunch of snaps to Brent Urban late in the year. Brandon was a consistent ball player that opens up other players to make plays, like CJ Mosley that you seemed to rave about, you are not giving Brandon Williams his due. Timmy Jernigan will likely get around 8-9 sacks in that defense just because he surrounded by talented players and his one job will be to attack the quarterback.

The team likely would have gotten a 4th out of him you are right. But that is probably best case scenario, also a comp pick is near the end of the 4th round which is basically round 5. Would you rather have a 5th round pick, or a chance at a higher rated player or ammunition to move up in the draft? To me I would rather take the 25 spot jump in the 3rd round over a 4th round comp pick any day.

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15 hours ago, RavensFanMania said:

Although I'll look at pff on occasion, it isn't the be all end all as you know.  I'm not a fan of their grades for College players at all.

Yea some of their grades on college players are eye popping. 

I dont think they account at all for level of competition, and they seem to suffer from recency bias quite a bit.... in terms of how they rank draft prospects. They'll have guys who put up one year of outstanding play over guys that have done it consistently over 3 years. 

But there definitely is some good stuff to be taken from their evaluations. Just shouldnt be used in a vacuum or as the be all end all... which i think some do.

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5 hours ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

Sorry for the late response. But no... Just no.

 

1. Zachary Orr was far and away the most overrated defensive player on the team last year. I know that everyone here loved him, but as @-Truth- and @BmoreBird22 pointed out, Orr got a ton of those tackles because Mosely ate the blockers and allowed Orr to run free. Orr was a decent ILB, but my god was maybe the most undeserving all pro I've ever seen. If there's on thing that pisses me off more than the Jernigan trade, it's the fans who say that CJ Mosely is "just another guy", and Orr had a better season. Nope. When Orr was thrusted into the #1 ILB spot because of CJ's injury, he struggled mightily. There's no surprise why. CJ made the defense work. He's our biggest asset going forward and there's no question about it. He's gonna be a Raven for life. 

 

2. There is no way in hell we would have gotten anything less than a fourth rounder from Jernigan comp pick wise. Even with his inconsistencies, a player with his talent would easily command $6.5 million on the open market. Which btw, given that our cap situation is significantly better next season, we could have easily afforded to keep him. That obviously wasn't in our plans(which is foolish and I'll explain why in the next point), but the return absolutely SUCKED. If we had traded him outright for that Eagles third rounder and not given up our own pick, you would hear 0 complaints from me and I'm a huge Jernigan fan. In my eyes, that'd be a solid trade.

 

3. Sorry. But we picked the wrong guy. Timmy Jernigan was an inconsistent pass rusher, but was a consistently excellent run defender who fit the defense well and was young. I'd rather have a guy who is very inconsistent as a pass rusher like Jernigan, but when he's hot he turns it on, then a guy who only plays 80% of the snaps. Given that the nfl has evolved into more of a passing league, Jernigan's ability to play three downs makes him, at least in my eyes, a more valuable commodity. I know he flat out dissapeared at times, but it's not like he was getting any help either. If we had more of a pass rush, I think we would have seen more pressures and sacks from the man. He's not an all pro, he's not even a pro bowler. But finding a defensive lineman who can rush the passer at a decent level is harder than most people think. And we just traded away our proven/best guy. For pennies on the dollar. 

 

4. Finally, the returns are idiotic. Timmy Jernigan playing next to two very good pass rusher is probably gonna have a season where he gets 6-8, possibly 10 sacks. The Eagles would probably be inclined to sign him again afterwards, for a sizeable contract but one that'd be well deserved, and they suddenly have one of the better defensive tackle tandems in the league, and they basically gave up nothing to get him. I don't give a damn if he is inconsistent, trading up 20 spots and giving away your best pass rusher, even if he is a locker room problem, is a HORRIBLE return. It literally makes no sense from a logical standpoint. The Eagles paid pennies for a dude who as a total package is an above average player, and they move down and still get to keep a pick in the round. I can personally guarentee you that Timmy, especially as a proven commodity thus far, is going to be better than at least 90% of the players drafted in the third round this year. 

 

I could go on and on about why this trade was totally and utterly idiotic, but honestly, it's post 4/20 in the state of Colorado. I'm going to bed lol

on point #1.... 

Yes, anyone who says Orr was better than Mosley is delusional. But to do the opposite, and completely ignore the season Orr had is ridiculous too. Orr and Mosley are different players - just bc Orr struggled in Mosley's role doesnt take away from how he played along side Mosley. Yea, Mosley opened Orr up to get the glory, but he still was a play maker, sure tackler, and was good in coverage. 

You can say Mosley made Orr, but Orr also made life on Mosley easier - knowing that he didnt have to try and do too much... he had a guy there he could count on to make the plays next to him. Both could stay within the defense and perform their role.

 

On point #2....

Whether you put any merit in the draft pick value trade charts or not; the value of swapping our 3rds and moving up 25 spots is greater than the Eagles 4th round pick outright.... and way more valuable than a comp 4th. When you consider the depth/quality of this draft it's even more so.

So to say youd have been happy if we had just gotten the Eagles 4th but this pick swap was terrible, is just ignorance to the value of picks. Youre basically saying you would have been happy had we gotten less in return, but since we got more its a bad trade.

 

Point #3 - 

Ever consider that part of the reason Jernigan has been able to be a good run defender is because he's had Williams next to him clogging everything up and occupying multiple blockers? Much easier job when youre always 1on1 or completely clean and able to make tackles. Its essentially your Orr argument. You knock Orr for benefiting from Mosley doing the dirty work and keeping him clean, but fail to recognize that was the case with Jernigan.

Jernigan was already losing snaps to a guy like Pierce... who's much much cheaper, a far better fit for the defense we play, has more years under team control, was a better run defender in a limited sample, and a more productive pass rusher on a per snap basis. Granted it was a somewhat limited sample, but the coaching staff knows these guys better than we do. If they feel like theyre going to get close to or a better return by playing Pierce, AND get draft compensation heading into one of the better drafts in recent memory -- then why wouldnt you?

It was clear by the end of last season that Jernigan's role was diminishing greatly, becoming basically a rotational/role player. So if youre not going to keep him beyond this year, and youre not a hands down SB contender where Jernigan could be the difference between winning a SB or not; you move him and get the best return.

 

Point 4.

Again. Youre saying the Eagles paid pennies bc they didnt have to give up a pick... just moved down in the 3rd. They probably offered their 4th and we pushed for the pick swap.... bc it has more value. Lets say on draft night we wanted to move up to the Eagles pick (74) and we offered our comp 3rd (99) and our 4th round pick; guarantee its not enough to get it done.

That 74th pick alone has more value than a comp 3rd and the Eagles 4th. And much more value than keeping our comp 3rd and getting a comp 4th next year.

We got a better deal than getting just their 4th. Especially when you look at the quality of player likely to be available early 3rd, and that wont be around late 3rd.

 

Jernigan was likely to be an issue this year had we kept him. He was already complaining about his role diminishing, and even had we kept him i guarantee the plan was to give Pierce more snaps.

And I'd put money on the fact that we plan to use BWill and Pierce together at NT and DT and Pierce has a season as good as any we've gotten from Jernigan. Both against the run and as a pass rusher.

Because even if he doesnt get home or put up as many sacks as Jernigan did.... he will demand double teams. You almost have to double BWill and Pierce which is going to leave our edge rusher 1on1 with a T and TE. And if they dont, and they try to go 1on1 with the interior guys; we're going to win those battles more often than not and put pressure right in the laps of QBs.

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6 hours ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

Sorry for the late response. But no... Just no.

 

1. Zachary Orr was far and away the most overrated defensive player on the team last year. I know that everyone here loved him, but as @-Truth- and @BmoreBird22 pointed out, Orr got a ton of those tackles because Mosely ate the blockers and allowed Orr to run free. Orr was a decent ILB, but my god was maybe the most undeserving all pro I've ever seen. If there's on thing that pisses me off more than the Jernigan trade, it's the fans who say that CJ Mosely is "just another guy", and Orr had a better season. Nope. When Orr was thrusted into the #1 ILB spot because of CJ's injury, he struggled mightily. There's no surprise why. CJ made the defense work. He's our biggest asset going forward and there's no question about it. He's gonna be a Raven for life. 

 

2. There is no way in hell we would have gotten anything less than a fourth rounder from Jernigan comp pick wise. Even with his inconsistencies, a player with his talent would easily command $6.5 million on the open market. Which btw, given that our cap situation is significantly better next season, we could have easily afforded to keep him. That obviously wasn't in our plans(which is foolish and I'll explain why in the next point), but the return absolutely SUCKED. If we had traded him outright for that Eagles third rounder and not given up our own pick, you would hear 0 complaints from me and I'm a huge Jernigan fan. In my eyes, that'd be a solid trade.

 

3. Sorry. But we picked the wrong guy. Timmy Jernigan was an inconsistent pass rusher, but was a consistently excellent run defender who fit the defense well and was young. I'd rather have a guy who is very inconsistent as a pass rusher like Jernigan, but when he's hot he turns it on, then a guy who only plays 80% of the snaps. Given that the nfl has evolved into more of a passing league, Jernigan's ability to play three downs makes him, at least in my eyes, a more valuable commodity. I know he flat out dissapeared at times, but it's not like he was getting any help either. If we had more of a pass rush, I think we would have seen more pressures and sacks from the man. He's not an all pro, he's not even a pro bowler. But finding a defensive lineman who can rush the passer at a decent level is harder than most people think. And we just traded away our proven/best guy. For pennies on the dollar. 

 

4. Finally, the returns are idiotic. Timmy Jernigan playing next to two very good pass rusher is probably gonna have a season where he gets 6-8, possibly 10 sacks. The Eagles would probably be inclined to sign him again afterwards, for a sizeable contract but one that'd be well deserved, and they suddenly have one of the better defensive tackle tandems in the league, and they basically gave up nothing to get him. I don't give a damn if he is inconsistent, trading up 20 spots and giving away your best pass rusher, even if he is a locker room problem, is a HORRIBLE return. It literally makes no sense from a logical standpoint. The Eagles paid pennies for a dude who as a total package is an above average player, and they move down and still get to keep a pick in the round. I can personally guarentee you that Timmy, especially as a proven commodity thus far, is going to be better than at least 90% of the players drafted in the third round this year. 

 

I could go on and on about why this trade was totally and utterly idiotic, but honestly, it's post 4/20 in the state of Colorado. I'm going to bed lol

You forgot about Jake Butt 

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1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Seems to me only one person here dislikes Barnett, and all but like 2 or 3 more people have a straight up love affair with the guy.

Grim isn't sold on Barnett as well. And is not sure he will convert to NFL so well. Everybody should pump the brakes on Lamp. He will be a functional player but this Yanda/Zack Martin comparisons are out of touch! His Bama tape was ok at best. He failed to get any movement and didn't hold blocks on Anderson/Allen. Bolles turns opponents off the ball far better even when weighing below 300lbs. And at a far better level/competition

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7 hours ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

Sorry for the late response. But no... Just no.

 

1. Zachary Orr was far and away the most overrated defensive player on the team last year. I know that everyone here loved him, but as @-Truth- and @BmoreBird22 pointed out, Orr got a ton of those tackles because Mosely ate the blockers and allowed Orr to run free. Orr was a decent ILB, but my god was maybe the most undeserving all pro I've ever seen. If there's on thing that pisses me off more than the Jernigan trade, it's the fans who say that CJ Mosely is "just another guy", and Orr had a better season. Nope. When Orr was thrusted into the #1 ILB spot because of CJ's injury, he struggled mightily. There's no surprise why. CJ made the defense work. He's our biggest asset going forward and there's no question about it. He's gonna be a Raven for life. 

 

2. There is no way in hell we would have gotten anything less than a fourth rounder from Jernigan comp pick wise. Even with his inconsistencies, a player with his talent would easily command $6.5 million on the open market. Which btw, given that our cap situation is significantly better next season, we could have easily afforded to keep him. That obviously wasn't in our plans(which is foolish and I'll explain why in the next point), but the return absolutely SUCKED. If we had traded him outright for that Eagles third rounder and not given up our own pick, you would hear 0 complaints from me and I'm a huge Jernigan fan. In my eyes, that'd be a solid trade.

 

3. Sorry. But we picked the wrong guy. Timmy Jernigan was an inconsistent pass rusher, but was a consistently excellent run defender who fit the defense well and was young. I'd rather have a guy who is very inconsistent as a pass rusher like Jernigan, but when he's hot he turns it on, then a guy who only plays 80% of the snaps. Given that the nfl has evolved into more of a passing league, Jernigan's ability to play three downs makes him, at least in my eyes, a more valuable commodity. I know he flat out dissapeared at times, but it's not like he was getting any help either. If we had more of a pass rush, I think we would have seen more pressures and sacks from the man. He's not an all pro, he's not even a pro bowler. But finding a defensive lineman who can rush the passer at a decent level is harder than most people think. And we just traded away our proven/best guy. For pennies on the dollar. 

 

4. Finally, the returns are idiotic. Timmy Jernigan playing next to two very good pass rusher is probably gonna have a season where he gets 6-8, possibly 10 sacks. The Eagles would probably be inclined to sign him again afterwards, for a sizeable contract but one that'd be well deserved, and they suddenly have one of the better defensive tackle tandems in the league, and they basically gave up nothing to get him. I don't give a damn if he is inconsistent, trading up 20 spots and giving away your best pass rusher, even if he is a locker room problem, is a HORRIBLE return. It literally makes no sense from a logical standpoint. The Eagles paid pennies for a dude who as a total package is an above average player, and they move down and still get to keep a pick in the round. I can personally guarentee you that Timmy, especially as a proven commodity thus far, is going to be better than at least 90% of the players drafted in the third round this year. 

 

I could go on and on about why this trade was totally and utterly idiotic, but honestly, it's post 4/20 in the state of Colorado. I'm going to bed lol

I'm on board with most points, especially one, two and four. 

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8 hours ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

Sorry for the late response. But no... Just no.

 

1. Zachary Orr was far and away the most overrated defensive player on the team last year. I know that everyone here loved him, but as @-Truth- and @BmoreBird22 pointed out, Orr got a ton of those tackles because Mosely ate the blockers and allowed Orr to run free. Orr was a decent ILB, but my god was maybe the most undeserving all pro I've ever seen. If there's on thing that pisses me off more than the Jernigan trade, it's the fans who say that CJ Mosely is "just another guy", and Orr had a better season. Nope. When Orr was thrusted into the #1 ILB spot because of CJ's injury, he struggled mightily. There's no surprise why. CJ made the defense work. He's our biggest asset going forward and there's no question about it. He's gonna be a Raven for life. 

 

2. There is no way in hell we would have gotten anything less than a fourth rounder from Jernigan comp pick wise. Even with his inconsistencies, a player with his talent would easily command $6.5 million on the open market. Which btw, given that our cap situation is significantly better next season, we could have easily afforded to keep him. That obviously wasn't in our plans(which is foolish and I'll explain why in the next point), but the return absolutely SUCKED. If we had traded him outright for that Eagles third rounder and not given up our own pick, you would hear 0 complaints from me and I'm a huge Jernigan fan. In my eyes, that'd be a solid trade.

 

3. Sorry. But we picked the wrong guy. Timmy Jernigan was an inconsistent pass rusher, but was a consistently excellent run defender who fit the defense well and was young. I'd rather have a guy who is very inconsistent as a pass rusher like Jernigan, but when he's hot he turns it on, then a guy who only plays 80% of the snaps. Given that the nfl has evolved into more of a passing league, Jernigan's ability to play three downs makes him, at least in my eyes, a more valuable commodity. I know he flat out dissapeared at times, but it's not like he was getting any help either. If we had more of a pass rush, I think we would have seen more pressures and sacks from the man. He's not an all pro, he's not even a pro bowler. But finding a defensive lineman who can rush the passer at a decent level is harder than most people think. And we just traded away our proven/best guy. For pennies on the dollar. 

 

4. Finally, the returns are idiotic. Timmy Jernigan playing next to two very good pass rusher is probably gonna have a season where he gets 6-8, possibly 10 sacks. The Eagles would probably be inclined to sign him again afterwards, for a sizeable contract but one that'd be well deserved, and they suddenly have one of the better defensive tackle tandems in the league, and they basically gave up nothing to get him. I don't give a damn if he is inconsistent, trading up 20 spots and giving away your best pass rusher, even if he is a locker room problem, is a HORRIBLE return. It literally makes no sense from a logical standpoint. The Eagles paid pennies for a dude who as a total package is an above average player, and they move down and still get to keep a pick in the round. I can personally guarentee you that Timmy, especially as a proven commodity thus far, is going to be better than at least 90% of the players drafted in the third round this year. 

 

I could go on and on about why this trade was totally and utterly idiotic, but honestly, it's post 4/20 in the state of Colorado. I'm going to bed lol

 

1 hour ago, -Truth- said:

I'm on board with most points, especially one, two and four. 

I'm on board as well but with all points pretty much. Point 3 being I don't care what percentage of plays Jernigan and Williams was in on. Fact remains Jernigan is more available and effective on more plays. Williams Impotent rushing the QB. For those that need to catch up on the this century I'll give you a crash course. It is a throwing league by far.  

Williams is a one dimensional block eater. He can't rush the QB. Out of all the players lost I can't believe he is the player management decides to pony up for!! All this nonsense he is a top3 runstuffing nose tackle. He is however how many teams employ or even want a one dimensional nose tackle. Teams have NT's that could be really good riding the bench. Because of their ineffectiveness rushing the QB. Even teams that run the 3-4 alignments prefer 3 stout lineman athletic enough across the board to rush the QB.

So Williams is top3 of about 7 one dimensional run stuffers. Williams is very replaceable. If a Jernigan was traded for peanuts imagine what ravens could pick up a run stuffer for. When Wilfork(who could rush when he was younger) got injured patriots picked up a NT for a late round pick. Even if Jernigan is inconsistent. He is more functional rushing the QB than Williams is. And his inconsistency could be a result of not liking the scheme and his role in it

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