Bold's Mock (4/12)

[Ravens4Real]

4 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

@Ravens4Real Mike williams is 6'3 3/4 hes a great player. High points it better than anyone in the country and Im someone who prefers corey davis but i wont question his size and ability.

Okay, that's my fault. ESPN's player profile on him is wrong. That is a pretty good size for a WR.

[ravensnation5220]

4 minutes ago, Ravens4Real said:

Okay, that's my fault. ESPN's player profile on him is wrong. That is a pretty good size for a WR.

You might be looking at the other mike williams who played for the seahawks

Didnt mean to come off hostile if i did

Edited April 13 by ravensnation5220

[ravensnation5220]

17 minutes ago, Italian Raven said:

Yeah I also see a good awarness for the position and how well he tracks the ball. Initial separation might be an issue on the short routes but as long as you keep him running fades and comebacks he's going to demand attention. 

As route runners for intermediate routes I prefere Kupp and Ford, hands down.

A guy that always creates great seperation at the stem of his route(before his break) is john ross. He sets up his routes beautifully. It comes so natural to him. Smooth as tennessee whiskey

[usmccharles]

39 minutes ago, Ravens4Real said:

Everyone comments on Mike Williams size but he is only 6'1. Is that truly elite size in the NFL? I would say not at all.

 

Where did you hear that?   I havent found one site that suggests that

[Ravens4Real]

21 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Where did you hear that?   I havent found one site that suggests that

http://m.espn.com/ncf/playercard?playerId=546644&src=desktop

[usmccharles]

3 minutes ago, Ravens4Real said:

http://m.espn.com/ncf/playercard?playerId=546644&src=desktop

Damn....good ole espn

[PurpleHorseman]

9 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Damn....good ole espn

He looks taller than that. Isn't he measured at pro day??

[Sami84]

Mike Williams is not 6 foot 1. That has to be an error. He's 6'3 easy

[Cville-Raven]

2 hours ago, Ravens4Real said:

http://m.espn.com/ncf/playercard?playerId=546644&src=desktop

ESPN must have false information. He is unquestionably 6' 4".  

[RaineV1]

3 hours ago, Ravens4Real said:

http://m.espn.com/ncf/playercard?playerId=546644&src=desktop

Yeah, that's wrong. The combine measured him at 6'4".

[Bruce_Almty]

On 4/12/2017 at 5:33 PM, rossihunter2 said:

i really want sashi brown and paul di podesta to work out for the browns because i like the way they have gone about their business trying to restore the browns both in public opinion, not turning the browns into a circus and obviously the analytics side - i have a lot of good will towards those guys but if they take mitchell trubisky at number 1 they had better hope he becomes a franchise qb because otherwise they won't last the year most likely

I hope the Browns don't draft a QB at all this year; go with Brock Osweiler and Cody Kessler, see what they offer. There's always next year for a franchise QB pick.

[January J]

2 hours ago, Bruce_Almty said:

I hope the Browns don't draft a QB at all this year; go with Brock Osweiler and Cody Kessler, see what they offer. There's always next year for a franchise QB pick.

I hope they do- the more qbs taken the better the chance of a top tier guy making it to us such as Barnett.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

15 hours ago, Ravens4Real said:

Everyone comments on Mike Williams size but he is only 6'1. Is that truly elite size in the NFL? I would say not at all.

People will comment on boxing out guys and being able to go up for the contested catch. I like that trait so don't have any true negatives. 

Outside of his very good postseason against Ohio State and Alabama, did he really have an outstanding game? He plays in the ACC. They aren't a very elite conference, football wise. He played well against a Pitt and Syracuse team that are horrible on the secondary. He also did well against SC but I have no clue if they have anyone of note skill wise. I just don't really trust any WR in a hurry up, fast pace offense (I say this not knowing what Davis' offense was like in college) Stats are blown out of proportion on offenses like this because defenses play off and loose. The game is going to be vastly different for him in the NFL compared to college. 

Now to my honest opinion, if we are taking a WR first round, I want it to be Davis or no one. I don't see Williams having a good/great NFL career. Big bodied CB's will be able to control his boxing out technique because he is not tall to begin with. They will also be much faster than him. So separation should be a problem. Jimmy Smith in particular would man handle a guy like Williams. 

First off, Mike Williams is 6'3"+ almost 6'4" so dont know where youre getting 6'1" from.

Second.... yea its a transition for an offense like that to the NFL in terms of learning a playbook; but its usually knowing/perfecting the full route tree for receivers thats the issue. Mike Williams can be given a dumbed down, simplified version of routes and just go win. 

Mike Evans, Sammy Watkins, DeAndre Hopkins (both Clemson guys), Tyler Lockett, Brandin Cooks (almost purely screens and vertical routes), Keenan Allen, Dez Bryant, Alshon Jeffery, AJ Green, Calvin Johnson, Demeryius Thomas, Michael Crabtree, etc...

All guys taken pretty early in drafts that were either size/speed box out/jump ball type guys, played in very simple offenses for WR's that didnt require complex route running or trees, or some combination of the two that have been very very good to dominant in the NFL. 

Two of the most recent hailing from that same Clemson offense. Watkins was certainly faster but smaller, lesser catch radius, and didnt work the middle of the field... and Hopkins while a better route runner for sure was also much smaller and slower.

 

Not saying this guarantees him success... but plenty of guys with the same skill sets have become great receivers recently, and others with some of the same skills/traits and from similar or the same exact spread/gimmicky offenses have transitioned fine to the NFL as well. In fact, almost half or more of the best WR's to come out recently fall into this category. List of the 10 best WR's in the NFL and i bet more than 5 have similar traits, similar concerns heading into the draft, and/or came from similar offenses in college.

Definitely not a reason to write him off when you see how he was able to raise his game against the best competition.

[RaineV1]

1 hour ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

First off, Mike Williams is 6'3"+ almost 6'4" so dont know where youre getting 6'1" from.

Second.... yea its a transition for an offense like that to the NFL in terms of learning a playbook; but its usually knowing/perfecting the full route tree for receivers thats the issue. Mike Williams can be given a dumbed down, simplified version of routes and just go win. 

Mike Evans, Sammy Watkins, DeAndre Hopkins (both Clemson guys), Tyler Lockett, Brandin Cooks (almost purely screens and vertical routes), Keenan Allen, Dez Bryant, Alshon Jeffery, AJ Green, Calvin Johnson, Demeryius Thomas, Michael Crabtree, etc...

All guys taken pretty early in drafts that were either size/speed box out/jump ball type guys, played in very simple offenses for WR's that didnt require complex route running or trees, or some combination of the two that have been very very good to dominant in the NFL.

I think the mentality that WRs in the first are risky is kind of old fashioned. I would say over the last ten years (maybe even the last twenty) WRs in the first two rounds haven't had a bust rate any higher than average for the draft. Actually, some years they seem to have a bust rate much lower than other positions. Maybe teams are better at scouting them now or colleges are asking them to run more route types, but it's improved a lot over the years. Also, people's perceptions can be clouded by the Ravens' own issues with drafting WRs early.

Right now it seems like athletic edge rushers have the highest bust rate in the early rounds. People get so enamored with the measurables that they forget if the guy is actually capable of dealing with NFL level tackles. Or they over look red flags like a bad work ethic.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

8 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

I think the mentality that WRs in the first are risky is kind of old fashioned. I would say over the last ten years (maybe even the last twenty) WRs in the first two rounds haven't had a bust rate any higher than average for the draft. Actually, some years they seem to have a bust rate much lower than other positions. Maybe teams are better at scouting them now or colleges are asking them to run more route types, but it's improved a lot over the years. Also, people's perceptions can be clouded by the Ravens' own issues with drafting WRs early.

Right now it seems like athletic edge rushers have the highest bust rate in the early rounds. People get so enamored with the measurables that they forget if the guy is actually capable of dealing with NFL level tackles. Or they over look red flags like a bad work ethic.

Id agree with that.

I think part of it has been the proliferation of more shotgun, spread offenses in the NFL that have somewhat simplified things for WR's so the jump from college to the pro's isnt as dramatic as it once may have been. Or at least most offenses incorporate some aspects of spread offenses so early on you can put your young WR's in positions to succeed while they develop a full tool kit.

Another part, i think, is that you have more of the best athletes playing the position. Whereas maybe 20 years ago most of the time the best athletes were playing RB on offense.... i think WR has become more of a glamour position and weapon as its become more of a passing game... and with more elite athletes, they have the ability to be successful early on by just being more athletic than the guy across form them. There were probably less of those guys coming out years ago.