Wide Reciever Depth

[rossihunter2]

2 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

Michael Campanaro-tore his ACL as I typed this

Man you nearly gave me a heart-attack with this one

[usmccharles]

5 hours ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

You are asking almost the impossible.  So you get drafted and don't succeed with your first team.  The possibility of anyone giving you a 2nd chance to be groomed like your first team is slim to none.   

I can list you all the WR we drafted since Joe was drafted and you can name me how many of those WRs actually broke 1000 yards.   Fair?

Justin Harper

Marcus Smith

David Reed

Tandon Doss

Torrey Smith

Tommy Streeter

Aaron Mallette

Michael Campanaro

Darren Waller

Breshad Perriman

Did you accidentally type a list of future hall of famers, or WR draft busts?   I cant even tell.....

[Tank 92]

6 hours ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

You are asking almost the impossible.  So you get drafted and don't succeed with your first team.  The possibility of anyone giving you a 2nd chance to be groomed like your first team is slim to none.   

I can list you all the WR we drafted since Joe was drafted and you can name me how many of those WRs actually broke 1000 yards.   Fair?

Justin Harper

Marcus Smith

David Reed

Tandon Doss

Torrey Smith

Tommy Streeter

Aaron Mallette

Michael Campanaro

Darren Waller

Breshad Perriman
 

LMAO!  So not only did these guys not succeed in Bmore because of Flacco, he also made them suck so bad that they couldn't succeed with another team. 'Cmon man! Even you can't rationalize some pooh like that.  You are just too much! 

[usmccharles]

18 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

LMAO!  So not only did these guys not succeed in Bmore because of Flacco, he also made them suck so bad that they couldn't succeed with another team. 'Cmon man! Even you can't rationalize some pooh like that.  You are just too much! 

at least he can words together that form sentences where we an comprehend them.....even though they have zero rationality

[Tank 92]

2 hours ago, usmccharles said:

at least he can words together that form sentences where we an comprehend them.....even though they have zero rationality

Duz that mke it betta?  

[Halshayeji]

13 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Menish Mehta (sp?) is apparently reporting that the Jets would be open to trading Eric Decker.

Not too bad an option of the price is right. B.Marshall is a better receiver but that was never an option due to the fact that he wants to stay in NY. Decker is 6'3 and is a great rout runner that gladly goes inside.

12 hours ago, HomeoftheBRAVENS said:

 

He fits the mold of the veteran chain mover with some gas left in the tank that the front office described.If they were to cut him I'd advocate for the team to sign him,but I wouldnt like to see us trade for him with that high of a base salary and I don't think any team would.

He'd definitely fit that mold. Take out last season that he missed due to injury and he's has 4000 yards and 40 TDs the 4 years prior.

I actually wouldn't mind if we give up a conditional 6th or 7th to ensure landing him. Sure the 7.5 mil salary is a bit steep but none of it is guaranteed so we can negotiate or cut ties with him if he doesn't play up to his price.

Low risk, high reward! 

Liked!

[Halshayeji]

12 hours ago, rossihunter2 said:

oh i agree - $7.25 mill is too much for a guy with so many question marks especially considering alshon jeffery only makes 500k more (in terms of cap) - we have enough injury worries already in the wr corps so id prefer to leave well alone unless he's coming in post-cut on a webby-priced deal but he wont because someone will offer him more money than here if he's released

I also agree that 7.25 is a bit steep but don't expect him to sign a SSS kind of deal. We got smart and a boy lucky with that.

i also would like to add that Jeffry is making a guaranteed 9.5 million this year and has an extra 4.5 million in incentives which could make his salary 14 mil in total. That's twice the current price of decker

[rossihunter2]

1 hour ago, Halshayeji said:

I also agree that 7.25 is a bit steep but don't expect him to sign a SSS kind of deal. We got smart and a boy lucky with that.

i also would like to add that Jeffry is making a guaranteed 9.5 million this year and has an extra 4.5 million in incentives which could make his salary 14 mil in total. That's twice the current price of decker

Yeah my bad - I completely missed everything apart from his base salary

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

3 hours ago, Tank 92 said:

Duz that mke it betta?  

*dat

[RavensFanMania]

17 hours ago, Adreme said:

Ross's scouting report is basically a copy paste of Perriman's so why draft Ross when you have Perriman who WILL be starting next year barring injury.  The only thing the Ravens would do if they got yet another speed receiver is cut Wallace to save money.  

If Williams or Davis are there (and Barnett isn't) then by all means draft them but Ross is just a worse copy paste of what we already have.

Perriman was healthy throughout college.  He has had one fluke injury, Ross is the definition of injury prone.  that being said, his talent is off the charts good.  Yes, he isn't a great route runner, but that can be taught.  He's a big play waiting to happen, but he isn't thetyoe of wr we are looking for.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

9 hours ago, Tank 92 said:

LMAO!  So not only did these guys not succeed in Bmore because of Flacco, he also made them suck so bad that they couldn't succeed with another team. 'Cmon man! Even you can't rationalize some pooh like that.  You are just too much! 

Really?. My history textbooks in school that Flacco started ww1, ww2, the aids epidemic, created cancer in a lab, and is responsible for world hunger in addition to being responsible for the downfall of the ravens franchise.

 

Honestly, we should take him to the ICC. Not cut him

[PurpleHorseman]

On 4/11/2017 at 8:29 AM, rmcjacket23 said:

Actually that's not true at all. The biggest knock on our WR core for years has been that we have depth... we just don't have anybody who separates themselves from the pack in terms of quality talent. If all of your receivers on your roster are near the same caliber of talent, then by definition, you have depth, because it means that if one of your "starters" goes down, the replacement level player is nearly as productive.

The REAL issue with our WR core is exactly what the FO has told us it is... we have no possession receiver who can work the middle of the field and be effective on third downs or in the red zone. That's the type of receiver we need. The reason why a Wallace/Perriman combo isn't exactly thrilling is because they both run similar route trees and have similar skill sets, and neither is a guy you trust to go over the middle and make a tough, contested catch in a critical spot in the game.

That's the type of guy we're going to look to add. If its a first rounder, great. If its a veteran, cool (I wouldn't prefer this). If its a mid-rounder, good. 

Your third WR is typically going to play somewhere around 50-60% of the snaps. Aiken played 52% last year, Perriman 43%. Even Steve Smith only played around 64%, so the drop from him to Aiken wasn't nearly as big as people think.

If we're in that position, that's what I'd expect to happen. Wallace will lead the receivers in targets and playing time, and Perriman and a third receiver (not yet on the roster most likely) will be playing about 2/3 or so, split among them. I don't see anything we do, including a first round WR, changing that. I don't think you're going to see Wallace and another player both playing like 90% of snaps. Think you'll see a steady rotation of guys.

 

Have to say it makes sense. Ravens rarely have a young WR that separates himself from the pack. 

[PurpleHorseman]

Chiefs will likely consider trading Maclin. Chiefs have a lot of young receivers with skill it found in mid rounds.including running back/receiver hybrids. Maclin is only 28 which would make him the youngest vet we ever picked up. He is as fast as Wallace but is a far better route runner on intermediate level. And can break routes off and get that fast separation and turn for yards in a blink. 

Edited April 12 by PurpleHorseman

[Halshayeji]

17 hours ago, PurpleHorseman said:

Chiefs will likely consider trading Maclin. Chiefs have a lot of young receivers with skill it found in mid rounds.including running back/receiver hybrids. Maclin is only 28 which would make him the youngest vet we ever picked up. He is as fast as Wallace but is a far better route runner on intermediate level. And can break routes off and get that fast separation and turn for yards in a blink. 

I really like Maclin as a player and think he's a better overall WR than Wallace considering that he catches passes from A.Smith. It would definitely be an intriguing move if Ozzie pulls it off but I don't think he's as fast as Wallace and I highly doubt our FO picking up his contract. He'd cost around 10 mil a year and that may be a bit over our budget

[Halshayeji]

Michael Floyd is still out there and I don't know why our FO haven't taken a look at him. After all, he is a former first rounder, 6'3 , only 27 years old, and can put up some stats when his head is in the right place.

I know it's a Floyd video but go to 3:32 and watch the block Fitzgerald throws....

Edited April 13 by Halshayeji

[rossihunter2]

2 hours ago, Halshayeji said:

Michael Floyd is still out there and I don't know why our FO haven't taken a look at him. After all, he is a former first rounder, 6'3 , only 27 years old, and can put up some stats when his head is in the right place.

I know it's a Floyd video but go to 3:32 and watch the block Fitzgerald throws....

Character issues - there's a reason New England didn't re-sign him

[jboy19]

Is the issue a lack of WR "depth" or is the issue the lack of WRs in general? Because I'd be fine with guys like Chris Moore and Campanaro being depth guys, but wouldn't want to have to depend on either of them to start at this point. 

[jboy19]

But we do still have 36-catch, 9 TD Chris Matthews as an ERFA, so there's that. 

[PurpleHorseman]

21 hours ago, Halshayeji said:

I really like Maclin as a player and think he's a better overall WR than Wallace considering that he catches passes from A.Smith. It would definitely be an intriguing move if Ozzie pulls it off but I don't think he's as fast as Wallace and I highly doubt our FO picking up his contract. He'd cost around 10 mil a year and that may be a bit over our budget

Maybe, but good thing about trading for a player his former team is usually on the hook for part of his salary. So Maclin should be within our range. He is only 28 and known for speed and route precision. However he has become very physical and agressive attacking the throw with defensive backs hanging on him and closing in on him. He has some Boldin and Garçon to go with his speed and precise routes. plays like a raven

Edited April 14 by PurpleHorseman

[January J]

On 4/13/2017 at 9:46 AM, jboy19 said:

But we do still have 36-catch, 9 TD Chris Matthews as an ERFA, so there's that. 

I was wondering if we still had him. I actually think he can be a really good receiver for us. I just got so tired of seeing Joe throw the ball in the endzone to the shortest receivers on the team. Throw some damn over the shoulder fades to Waller and Mathews who can actually go up and get it.

[frozen joe flacco fan]

On ‎4‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 4:58 PM, rmcjacket23 said:

This post has nothing to do with WR depth. It has to do with you thinking the WR core isn't very good.

If we need actual DEPTH at WR, that means that you're looking to add a role player or a bench player to your roster. That's what depth is. 

So if you think that depth is actually the issue, then no, it makes no sense to use a first round pick on a player who is depth. You use a first round pick on a player to play a lot, probably start, and be a contributor.

So make up your mind. Do we need depth, or do we need another starting-caliber player?

Bingo! The premise of the OP is wrong. Everyone knows we have ZERO depth at WR. The real question is who will be our #1 WR, our #2 WR and our #3 WR. Obviously, we need another starting caliber WR and the draft will probably not fill that need. That being said, it is important that we draft a stud WR and obtain a veteran legitimate deep threat thru free agency. With all due respect to Wallace, there is nobody on our current roster who fills that role unless Perriman matures into the role.

[PurpleHorseman]

So what are some thoughts if we could bring in Maclin for a round4 draft pick? He is 28 and a better more physical route runner than Wallace. He has some SS/Boldin toughness in traffic. He is elusive after the catch as well. He is fast and shifty for that early separation needed to move the chains. And has the big play speed and ball skills. Maclin gives Ravens better than average WR's at least. With a chance to have a great unit if One of Perriman/Moore take his game to starter caliber.

10 minutes ago, frozen joe flacco fan said:

Bingo! The premise of the OP is wrong. Everyone knows we have ZERO depth at WR. The real question is who will be our #1 WR, our #2 WR and our #3 WR. Obviously, we need another starting caliber WR and the draft will probably not fill that need. That being said, it is important that we draft a stud WR and obtain a veteran legitimate deep threat thru free agency. With all due respect to Wallace, there is nobody on our current roster who fills that role unless Perriman matures into the role.

 

[Maryland]

Perriman and Moore are the only WRs on this roster with contracts that extend beyond 2017, and neither of them have proven anything so far (except that they have terrible drop rates). Given this, we could stand to draft multiple WRs and/or acquire several WRs in free-agency, since there isn't a single WR on this roster proven to be a part of the future of this team.

[rmcjacket23]

9 hours ago, frozen joe flacco fan said:

Bingo! The premise of the OP is wrong. Everyone knows we have ZERO depth at WR. The real question is who will be our #1 WR, our #2 WR and our #3 WR. Obviously, we need another starting caliber WR and the draft will probably not fill that need. That being said, it is important that we draft a stud WR and obtain a veteran legitimate deep threat thru free agency. With all due respect to Wallace, there is nobody on our current roster who fills that role unless Perriman matures into the role.

Seriously doubt we do both. Fully expect us to address WR in the draft in the first three rounds.

Bringing in another veteran would likely only stunt the playing time of that player and/or Perriman, which achieves the opposite effect of what we are looking to do on offense.

Like it or not, the Ravens are highly invested in Perriman, and he's going to be given every opportunity to play a lot and play well. 

We're obviously not going to draft or sign another deep threat either, because most of our WRs on the roster already are deep threats... and that's the problem. We lack a chain mover.

Plus lets be honest... there's really no such thing as a "legitimate veteran deep threat" available in FA, and I don't see a player who's likely to get cut that would fit that mold either.

[rmcjacket23]

9 hours ago, PurpleHorseman said:

So what are some thoughts if we could bring in Maclin for a round4 draft pick? He is 28 and a better more physical route runner than Wallace. He has some SS/Boldin toughness in traffic. He is elusive after the catch as well. He is fast and shifty for that early separation needed to move the chains. And has the big play speed and ball skills. Maclin gives Ravens better than average WR's at least. With a chance to have a great unit if One of Perriman/Moore take his game to starter caliber.

 

Would have to find a way to come up with nearly $10M in cap space to pay him.

Only way he becomes a Raven is if he is cut and signs a contract at half price or less of that.

Also ignores the fact that I seriously doubt the Chiefs are interested in trading him this year. Don't have many viable options on offense to replace him.

[rmcjacket23]

On 4/14/2017 at 9:59 AM, January J said:

I was wondering if we still had him. I actually think he can be a really good receiver for us. I just got so tired of seeing Joe throw the ball in the endzone to the shortest receivers on the team. Throw some damn over the shoulder fades to Waller and Mathews who can actually go up and get it.

Problem is I haven't seen either of those guys really use their size to their advantage. I've seen Steve Smith play bigger and taller than Waller.

I think we as fans get caught up in size too much and think that everybody who is big knows how to use that attribute. 

[jazz1988]

3 hours ago, Maryland said:

Perriman and Moore are the only WRs on this roster with contracts that extend beyond 2017, and neither of them have proven anything so far (except that they have terrible drop rates). Given this, we could stand to draft multiple WRs and/or acquire several WRs in free-agency, since there isn't a single WR on this roster proven to be a part of the future of this team.

I know Perriman dropped some passes last year and I'm not saying he's a proven receiver yet but i don't think he did totally nothing last year either. The guy caught 50 percent of his passes, had 499 receiving yards, and 3 touchdowns while averaging 15 yards per catch.. It's not even unreasonable to think  that his rookie season would have been similar to Torrey Smith rookie season if he had more targets/snaps on offense. I thought Perriman showed some growth as a receiver and season went on last year but of course he still has more to prove.

[January J]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Problem is I haven't seen either of those guys really use their size to their advantage. I've seen Steve Smith play bigger and taller than Waller.

I think we as fans get caught up in size too much and think that everybody who is big knows how to use that attribute. 

Good point but we haven't really seen them even get that many opportunities to know if they do or not...plus the only way to get better is to get those opportunities ( esp in-game opps). I mean I guess that's done in practice..and maybe they've failed to do so well- hence the lack of opportunities.. But honestly I'm not so sure given the large amount of questionable play calling by the OCs and/or bad throwing decisions by Joe.

 

Crock is a guy i do think needs to learn to use his size a little better- He has more in-game experience than those other 2. He has the potential to be a beast if so.

Edited April 18 by January J

[playlikeawhat]

On 4/11/2017 at 8:32 PM, Ravenseconbeast said:

You are asking almost the impossible.  So you get drafted and don't succeed with your first team.  The possibility of anyone giving you a 2nd chance to be groomed like your first team is slim to none.   

I can list you all the WR we drafted since Joe was drafted and you can name me how many of those WRs actually broke 1000 yards.   Fair?

Justin Harper

Marcus Smith

David Reed

Tandon Doss

Torrey Smith

Tommy Streeter

Aaron Mallette

Michael Campanaro

Darren Waller

Breshad Perriman
 

"These receviers became elite with other QBs" - Said No Analyst Ever

Edited April 18 by playlikeawhat

[rmcjacket23]

3 hours ago, January J said:

Good point but we haven't really seen them even get that many opportunities to know if they do or not...plus the only way to get better is to get those opportunities ( esp in-game opps). I mean I guess that's done in practice..and maybe they've failed to do so well- hence the lack of opportunities.. But honestly I'm not so sure given the large amount of questionable play calling by the OCs and/or bad throwing decisions by Joe.

 

Crock is a guy i do think needs to learn to use his size a little better- He has more in-game experience than those other 2. He has the potential to be a beast if so.

For me, practice/training camp/preseason is where these types of players simply have to display those kinds of things. There isn't a team in the league (except maybe the Browns, who aren't even trying to win) who can put late round draft picks or "project" type players out there in real game situations and make sure that they learn how to play well on the job. The most likely outcome in that scenario is that those players never play well, and the coaches or FO personnel who decided to give them all that playing time get fired for it. As a coach or GM, I'd certainly never take that risk. I'm putting the guys out there who I think are the best players, not based on whether they might be a great player five years from now.

I certainly agree that playing in the preseason or training camp is nothing like playing in a real game. But the reality is that when fans or analysts or media personnel ask for young players to get more snaps or more playing time, they're doing that from a position of absolutely zero risk. If that player doesn't pan out, nothing happens to the people that called for more playing time, more targets, etc. That blame strictly goes to the player and the coaches/decision makers, and they're the one's held accountable.

Ultimately the Ravens should do what every other team in the league does... trust your talent evaluators. Trust your coaches to determine who the best players are, and give them the bulk of the playing time.