[News] Eisenberg: A New Reality Has Eaten Into Ravens' Edge In Draft

[BR News]

Maybe it's time to stop thinking about what the Ravens are or are not doing when looking at their recent draft hits and misses, and look at how and why other teams are catching up.

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[CQ1]

"Other teams catching up"?.....Well its all about perspective. You can view it from the Eisenberg angle, and I'll view it from the CQ1 angle- or the ROFO angle (kudos from a member that said I should go root on a Royal Farm related team......that's a classic; for now I'll root on their chicken :)
Quite frankly, since Flacco's emergence into the league, the entire team chemistry has since quickly eroded. Until we can figure out all of the pieces- and, or weapons that are needed to seemingly nurture- or as I tend to see it, pacify him, from the fans point of view. As long as Joe continues to constantly check down, stare down and or stay in the pocket to long- other teams will continue to catch up. I cant wait to hear what the purple-fluff, excuses are going to be this year. Off to Rofo :)

[davy_861]

We don't work around what we have. While a coach does have a system, it is their responsibility to adjust their system based upon the skill set of the players they control. We didn't amplify Jerrnigans talent and we gave a player a massive amount of money based on a base defense. Jerrnigan has John Randle like talent and he may very well be the most productive DT next year. Drafting is only part of the problem!

[rossihunter2]

49 minutes ago, CQ1 said:

"Other teams catching up"?.....Well its all about perspective. You can view it from the Eisenberg angle, and I'll view it from the CQ1 angle- or the ROFO angle (kudos from a member that said I should go root on a Royal Farm related team......that's a classic; for now I'll root on their chicken
Quite frankly, since Flacco's emergence into the league, the entire team chemistry has since quickly eroded. Until we can figure out all of the pieces- and, or weapons that are needed to seemingly nurture- or as I tend to see it, pacify him, from the fans point of view. As long as Joe continues to constantly check down, stare down and or stay in the pocket to long- other teams will continue to catch up. I cant wait to hear what the purple-fluff, excuses are going to be this year. Off to Rofo

What on earth does flacco have to do with the way teams have changed the way they draft?

[Tincan]

Maybe the old way needs to be updated

[ellicottraven]

Then the thinking needs to change Eric, because maintaining a competitive edge is how you guys make your money. If there is parity, then create an edge somewhere somehow. That's why you guys are all paid the big bucks no?

[n#7]

Then the thinking needs to change Eric, because maintaining a competitive edge is how you guys make your money. If there is parity, then create an edge somewhere somehow. That's why you guys are all paid the big bucks no?

Yes.

[whobilly]

"Other teams catching up"?.....Well its all about perspective. You can view it from the Eisenberg angle, and I'll view it from the CQ1 angle- or the ROFO angle (kudos from a member that said I should go root on a Royal Farm related team......that's a classic; for now I'll root on their chicken :)
Quite frankly, since Flacco's emergence into the league, the entire team chemistry has since quickly eroded. Until we can figure out all of the pieces- and, or weapons that are needed to seemingly nurture- or as I tend to see it, pacify him, from the fans point of view. As long as Joe continues to constantly check down, stare down and or stay in the pocket to long- other teams will continue to catch up. I cant wait to hear what the purple-fluff, excuses are going to be this year. Off to Rofo :)

Just curious. How did you feel about Joe when Lee Evans couldn't hang onto the ball in the endzone in the AFC Title Game against the Pats in 2011, when he lead them to great wins in the playoffs and the Ravens captured the ultimate prize, when the D could not hang onto a 14 point lead against the Pats in the playoffs, or when the D couldn't hang on vs the Steelers last year. Wow. That's what I call erosion. You must have loved Chris Redman, Elvis Grbak, and Kyle Boller.

[purpledown]

this draft, this year is going to make or break this current Ravens organization. Another year like last year and they should and will be out of a job.

[jravens1313]

  6 hours ago, CQ1 said:

"Other teams catching up"?.....Well its all about perspective. You can view it from the Eisenberg angle, and I'll view it from the CQ1 angle- or the ROFO angle (kudos from a member that said I should go root on a Royal Farm related team......that's a classic; for now I'll root on their chicken :)
Quite frankly, since Flacco's emergence into the league, the entire team chemistry has since quickly eroded. Until we can figure out all of the pieces- and, or weapons that are needed to seemingly nurture- or as I tend to see it, pacify him, from the fans point of view. As long as Joe continues to constantly check down, stare down and or stay in the pocket to long- other teams will continue to catch up. I cant wait to hear what the purple-fluff, excuses are going to be this year. Off to Rofo :)

Just curious. How did you feel about Joe when Lee Evans couldn't hang onto the ball in the endzone in the AFC Title Game against the Pats in 2011, when he lead them to great wins in the playoffs and the Ravens captured the ultimate prize, when the D could not hang onto a 14 point lead against the Pats in the playoffs, or when the D couldn't hang on vs the Steelers last year. Wow. That's what I call erosion. You must have loved Chris Redman, Elvis Grbak, and Kyle Boller.

Flacco played on some truly stacked teams. That's why he made the Playoffs 6 times and won a SB. We have overpaid for his talent and now we sit in a position where we can't always retain the guys we need to and we can't add the talent we need to on both sides of the ball in Free Agency. January Joe is a better QB, but don't forget who we lost since 2012. Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Ray Rice, Haloti Ngata, Boldin, Birk, KO, Pollard, Ellerbe, Corey Graham, Pernell McPhee, (Pitta's not the same), (Suggs is no longer in his prime). We need cap space to reload and stack the Roster. Flacco's greedy contracts take up too much Cap Space.

[Chuckx999]

Flacco's greedy contracts take up too much Cap Space!!! You got that right!!!

Also the draft has been to hit or miss. WHo's fault is that, Ozzie or scouts???

Team needs help everywhere, players. coaches, and front office!!!

[TheConquerorWorm]

  5 hours ago, whobilly said:

  9 hours ago, CQ1 said:

"Other teams catching up"?.....Well its all about perspective. You can view it from the Eisenberg angle, and I'll view it from the CQ1 angle- or the ROFO angle (kudos from a member that said I should go root on a Royal Farm related team......that's a classic; for now I'll root on their chicken :)
Quite frankly, since Flacco's emergence into the league, the entire team chemistry has since quickly eroded. Until we can figure out all of the pieces- and, or weapons that are needed to seemingly nurture- or as I tend to see it, pacify him, from the fans point of view. As long as Joe continues to constantly check down, stare down and or stay in the pocket to long- other teams will continue to catch up. I cant wait to hear what the purple-fluff, excuses are going to be this year. Off to Rofo :)

Just curious. How did you feel about Joe when Lee Evans couldn't hang onto the ball in the endzone in the AFC Title Game against the Pats in 2011, when he lead them to great wins in the playoffs and the Ravens captured the ultimate prize, when the D could not hang onto a 14 point lead against the Pats in the playoffs, or when the D couldn't hang on vs the Steelers last year. Wow. That's what I call erosion. You must have loved Chris Redman, Elvis Grbak, and Kyle Boller.

Flacco played on some truly stacked teams. That's why he made the Playoffs 6 times and won a SB. We have overpaid for his talent and now we sit in a position where we can't always retain the guys we need to and we can't add the talent we need to on both sides of the ball in Free Agency. January Joe is a better QB, but don't forget who we lost since 2012. Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Ray Rice, Haloti Ngata, Boldin, Birk, KO, Pollard, Ellerbe, Corey Graham, Pernell McPhee, (Pitta's not the same), (Suggs is no longer in his prime). We need cap space to reload and stack the Roster. Flacco's greedy contracts take up too much Cap Space.

Like $5-6 million is going to make any difference (that's the difference in Joe's contract and choke artist QBs like Cam, Matt Ryan, Dalton, Stafford, Sam Bradford, Brock, etc, etc). But I guess you think that being able to sign Ted Ginn Jr makes all the difference.....lol

[law215]

Sounds like excuses or an attempt to justify. If it's a level playing field how are the Raiders and Chiefs stocking team with talent while still making the playoffs? How are the Steelers able to add quality receivers every draft? Maybe what they been doing since 1996 needs to change?

I don't think the Ravens are necessarily bad at drafting, I think other teams are doing a better job of drafting and developing. I also believe the FO lacks confidence in their ability to draft and coaches ability to develop. Why else would they resign Webb in a draft that's deep in secondary? Why sign Watson last year with 4 TEs already on the roster?

[Halshayeji]

Well if teams seem like theyr using the same cheat sheet then that makes them predictable and should be advantage to us.

Wev don't great by drafting small school guys and betting on them taking the next step. Like B.Williams and Judon in later rounds. Wev also done a pritty nice job taking a conservative best player avaliable in the first round.

Second round is where our calculated risks havnt necesarrily panned out. Still hoping Correa and Max williams would have done us wonders if they turned out to be like Jernigan at least but heck, you can't have it all.

[Drinkmore Beer]

There is only one team whose fans are happy with them every year and that's the Patriots. That's because they have the best defensive mind (Belichick), the best offensive mind (McDaniel), and the best QB (Brady). They can lose key players to injury, trade key players to save money, and they still win. No one else can.

[ByTheBay]

6 hours ago, Halshayeji said:

Well if teams seem like theyr using the same cheat sheet then that makes them predictable and should be advantage to us.

Wev don't great by drafting small school guys and betting on them taking the next step. Like B.Williams and Judon in later rounds. Wev also done a pritty nice job taking a conservative best player avaliable in the first round.

Second round is where our calculated risks havnt necesarrily panned out. Still hoping Correa and Max williams would have done us wonders if they turned out to be like Jernigan at least but heck, you can't have it all.

Good news is they still have time to develop. Didn't Max put up the best numbers for a rookie TE in franchise history? I know it wasn't anything to write home about but the potential is there. He has to work hard and rise to the top. It's still possible. Hopefully Correa takes the next step this year and locks down the spot next to Mosley for many years to come. It's a lot of pressure but he will have the opportunity to succeed. Also excited to see what Bronson will bring to the table this year. Could be another surprise player. Last years draft class has the potential to be historical. 

[Halshayeji]

3 minutes ago, ByTheBay said:

Good news is they still have time to develop. Didn't Max put up the best numbers for a rookie TE in franchise history? I know it wasn't anything to write home about but the potential is there. He has to work hard and rise to the top. It's still possible. Hopefully Correa takes the next step this year and locks down the spot next to Mosley for many years to come. It's a lot of pressure but he will have the opportunity to succeed. Also excited to see what Bronson will bring to the table this year. Could be another surprise player. Last years draft class has the potential to be historical. 

Absolutely, Maax showed a lot of promise but injuries have hindered his development. I also loved seeing Gilmore in action and hope beyond hope that those two can stay healthy as take that next step. 

Im also extreemly excited to see what  Kafusi has to offer but I don't want to get too hyped then get my heart broken.

All three of those guys listed are not the FO fault but just bad luck. 

Correa on the other hand scares the heck out of me. I think he can be a top pass rusher in this league but don't get why we are trying to convert him to ILB.

out of those 4. I just want 2 to pan out and I'm good lol 

[KidNme]

  14 hours ago, whobilly said:

  19 hours ago, CQ1 said:

"Other teams catching up"?.....Well its all about perspective. You can view it from the Eisenberg angle, and I'll view it from the CQ1 angle- or the ROFO angle (kudos from a member that said I should go root on a Royal Farm related team......that's a classic; for now I'll root on their chicken :)
Quite frankly, since Flacco's emergence into the league, the entire team chemistry has since quickly eroded. Until we can figure out all of the pieces- and, or weapons that are needed to seemingly nurture- or as I tend to see it, pacify him, from the fans point of view. As long as Joe continues to constantly check down, stare down and or stay in the pocket to long- other teams will continue to catch up. I cant wait to hear what the purple-fluff, excuses are going to be this year. Off to Rofo :)

Just curious. How did you feel about Joe when Lee Evans couldn't hang onto the ball in the endzone in the AFC Title Game against the Pats in 2011, when he lead them to great wins in the playoffs and the Ravens captured the ultimate prize, when the D could not hang onto a 14 point lead against the Pats in the playoffs, or when the D couldn't hang on vs the Steelers last year. Wow. That's what I call erosion. You must have loved Chris Redman, Elvis Grbak, and Kyle Boller.

Flacco played on some truly stacked teams. That's why he made the Playoffs 6 times and won a SB. We have overpaid for his talent and now we sit in a position where we can't always retain the guys we need to and we can't add the talent we need to on both sides of the ball in Free Agency. January Joe is a better QB, but don't forget who we lost since 2012. Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Ray Rice, Haloti Ngata, Boldin, Birk, KO, Pollard, Ellerbe, Corey Graham, Pernell McPhee, (Pitta's not the same), (Suggs is no longer in his prime). We need cap space to reload and stack the Roster. Flacco's greedy contracts take up too much Cap Space.

Yes, Flacco played on some stacked teams but that's what the FO does and is trying to do again this year. Surround our franchise QB with enough talent to make the playoffs. It's not a one pony show out there.
As far as Flacco's "greedy contract", I don't remember him demanding anything that wasn't promised to him or deserved at the time. He was the starting QB in a SB so that puts him in a short list of QB's, regardless of how you think he got there.

[woolly61]

Sounds like excuses or an attempt to justify. If it's a level playing field how are the Raiders and Chiefs stocking team with talent while still making the playoffs? How are the Steelers able to add quality receivers every draft? Maybe what they been doing since 1996 needs to change?

I don't think the Ravens are necessarily bad at drafting, I think other teams are doing a better job of drafting and developing. I also believe the FO lacks confidence in their ability to draft and coaches ability to develop. Why else would they resign Webb in a draft that's deep in secondary? Why sign Watson last year with 4 TEs already on the roster?

This makes me laugh...you might want to use two other teams as examples than the Raiders and the Chiefs. Granted the Raiders went 12-4 last year...but you do realize they missed the playoffs the previous 13 years! Of those 13 years, the Raiders lost 10 or more games 10 times, with two 8-8 seasons and a 7-9. The Chiefs? Well, they have been in the playoffs 3 of the last 4 seasons, but the Chiefs have won one (1!) playoff game since 1993 (the 2015 wild card game vs. the legendary Brian Hoyer-led Texans). In the 19 years since 1998 the Chiefs missed the playoffs 13 times, and 9 of those were with losing records.

[woolly61]

Flacco's greedy contracts take up too much Cap Space!!! You got that right!!!

Also the draft has been to hit or miss. WHo's fault is that, Ozzie or scouts???

Team needs help everywhere, players. coaches, and front office!!!

With regard to Joe's "greedy contracts", remember that his Super Bowl-winning contract was back-loaded, and as such Flacco had the following "cap hits" during these seasons: 2013 -- $6.8M (5.32% of team cap, lower than Suggs $13M, Ngata $11.5M, and Yanda $7.45M); 2014 -- $14.8 mil (11.85% of cap; also on team - Ngata $14M, Yanda $8.45M, Suggs $7.8M, Webb $7.5M); 2015 -- $14,55M (10.30% of cap; also on team - Webb $9.25M, Monroe $7.7M, Dumervil $7.375M, Yanda $6.98M, Pitta $6.2M). Flacco's cap hit was supposed to be $28.55M in 2016, $31.15M in 2017, and $24.75M in 2018; with his restructured deal, the new cap hits are $22,55M in 2016 (also on team - Webb $9.5M, Suggs $7.45M, Dumervil $7.375M), $24.55M in 2017 (also on team - J. Smith $12.6M, Yanda 9.125M, Wallace $8M, and Suggs $6.95M), and $24.75M in 2018 (also $26.5M in 2019, $28.25M in 2020, and $24.25M in 2021).

Compare Flacco's cap hits to Matt Ryan, drafted #3 in the same 2008 draft: 2011 -- Ryan $13.25M cap hit (10.45% of team cap), Flacco $5.725M (4.81%); 2012 -- Ryan $13.5M hit (10.63%), Flacco $8M (6.03%); 2013 -- Ryan $9.6M hit (7.86%), Flacco $6.8M (5.32%); 2014 -- $17.5M hit (13.16%), Flacco $14.8M (11.85%); 2015 -- Ryan $19.5M hit (14.31%); 2016 -- Ryan $23.75M hit (15.3%), Flacco $22.55M (14.94%); 2017 -- Ryan $23.75M (13.96%), Flacco $24.55M (14.48%). [numbers courtesy of sportrac.com]

Flacco definitely needs to step up his game, but who has had more postseason success, he or Ryan? Before this year's trip to the Super Bowl (a legendary loss with a big 2nd half lead helped by someone taking a big sack...), the Falcons had missed the playoffs the previous three seasons and had gone 1-4 in the playoffs since 2008, this despite the presence of receivers Julio Jones, Tony Gonzalez, and Roddy White...

[law215]

  11 hours ago, law215 said:

Sounds like excuses or an attempt to justify. If it's a level playing field how are the Raiders and Chiefs stocking team with talent while still making the playoffs? How are the Steelers able to add quality receivers every draft? Maybe what they been doing since 1996 needs to change?

I don't think the Ravens are necessarily bad at drafting, I think other teams are doing a better job of drafting and developing. I also believe the FO lacks confidence in their ability to draft and coaches ability to develop. Why else would they resign Webb in a draft that's deep in secondary? Why sign Watson last year with 4 TEs already on the roster?

This makes me laugh...you might want to use two other teams as examples than the Raiders and the Chiefs. Granted the Raiders went 12-4 last year...but you do realize they missed the playoffs the previous 13 years! Of those 13 years, the Raiders lost 10 or more games 10 times, with two 8-8 seasons and a 7-9. The Chiefs? Well, they have been in the playoffs 3 of the last 4 seasons, but the Chiefs have won one (1!) playoff game since 1993 (the 2015 wild card game vs. the legendary Brian Hoyer-led Texans). In the 19 years since 1998 the Chiefs missed the playoffs 13 times, and 9 of those were with losing records.

You making my point. The Raider got their act together because they CHANGED drafting every fast player from the combine in the first round to getting a solid coach like Del Rio and evaluating talent. The Raiders are trending up.

They are doing a better job ' today' than the Ravens.

[balfan23]

4 minutes ago, law215 said:

You making my point. The Raider got their act together because they CHANGED drafting every fast player from the combine in the first round to getting a solid coach like Del Rio and evaluating talent. The Raiders are trending up.

They are doing a better job ' today' than the Ravens.

The Raiders also got their act together by drafting in the top 10 year after year and eventually some of these "can't miss" picks actually didn't miss. 

They are trending up ... partly because there was nowhere else to go. They did make the playoffs, but I'm sorry, that is not a team I am convinced is on their way to being a championship contender. The separation between them and us last year was by no means massive. It is not like the Raiders man-handled us. That is still the 1 most irritating game from last year. That absolutely should have been a win for the Ravens.

Look - I agree to some extent that we can't take the approach that when we hit it on the draft, then Ozzie is a wizard and when we don't, well, what can you do - it's a crap shoot. But sometimes, the teams that get touted as doing so much better than us seems to be a bit of a stretch. 

[woolly61]

  7 hours ago, woolly61 said:

  17 hours ago, law215 said:

Sounds like excuses or an attempt to justify. If it's a level playing field how are the Raiders and Chiefs stocking team with talent while still making the playoffs? How are the Steelers able to add quality receivers every draft? Maybe what they been doing since 1996 needs to change?

I don't think the Ravens are necessarily bad at drafting, I think other teams are doing a better job of drafting and developing. I also believe the FO lacks confidence in their ability to draft and coaches ability to develop. Why else would they resign Webb in a draft that's deep in secondary? Why sign Watson last year with 4 TEs already on the roster?

This makes me laugh...you might want to use two other teams as examples than the Raiders and the Chiefs. Granted the Raiders went 12-4 last year...but you do realize they missed the playoffs the previous 13 years! Of those 13 years, the Raiders lost 10 or more games 10 times, with two 8-8 seasons and a 7-9. The Chiefs? Well, they have been in the playoffs 3 of the last 4 seasons, but the Chiefs have won one (1!) playoff game since 1993 (the 2015 wild card game vs. the legendary Brian Hoyer-led Texans). In the 19 years since 1998 the Chiefs missed the playoffs 13 times, and 9 of those were with losing records.

You making my point. The Raider got their act together because they CHANGED drafting every fast player from the combine in the first round to getting a solid coach like Del Rio and evaluating talent. The Raiders are trending up.

They are doing a better job ' today' than the Ravens.

Exactly whom did the Raiders draft last year that was so excellent? 1st rd (14) Karl Joseph, S; 2nd (44) Jihad Ward, DE; 3rd (75) Shilique Calhoun, DE; 4th (100) Connor Cook, QB; 5th (143) DeAndre Washington, RB [not bad with 467 rushing yards]; 6th Cory James, OLB; 7th Vadal Alexander, G. The Raiders selected Amari Cooper #4 overall in '15; what else did they get in that draft? They selected Khalil Mack #5 overall in '14, got Derek Carr with pick #36, and G Gabe Jackson in the 3rd rd. In '13 they drafted little of consequence beside RB Latavius Murray in the 6th round. Cooper & Mack are playmakers but taken with the 4th and 5th picks of their drafts; the only time the Ravens have been close to a pick that high lately was last year and hopefully they locked down the LT position for years to come with Ronnie Stanley. The Raiders made a huge improvement last year by bringing in a bunch of free agents over the last couple of years, including G Kelechi Osemele (from your Baltimore Ravens; he was given an average annual salary of $11.5M, about $3.5 M/yr more than the next highest paid G, Mike Iupati), WR Michael Crabtree, C Rodney Hudson (given a 5 yr/$44.5M contract, more than Alex Mack and Maurkice Pouncey), LB Bruce Irvin, CB Sean Smith, and S Reggie Nelson. They paid huge money to solidify their offensive line because they had the cap space BECAUSE they weren't getting anything out of their drafts for years, had 13 straight losing seasons, and didn't have any veterans who merited a big salary.

So, yes, applaud them for a fine 2016 season, but how will those huge offensive line contracts look in a couple of years when Cooper, Mack, & Carr come calling on their 2nd contracts?

[fluffy201]

  13 hours ago, ByTheBay said:

Good news is they still have time to develop. Didn't Max put up the best numbers for a rookie TE in franchise history? I know it wasn't anything to write home about but the potential is there. He has to work hard and rise to the top. It's still possible. Hopefully Correa takes the next step this year and locks down the spot next to Mosley for many years to come. It's a lot of pressure but he will have the opportunity to succeed. Also excited to see what Bronson will bring to the table this year. Could be another surprise player. Last years draft class has the potential to be historical. 

Absolutely, Maax showed a lot of promise but injuries have hindered his development. I also loved seeing Gilmore in action and hope beyond hope that those two can stay healthy as take that next step. 

Im also extreemly excited to see what  Kafusi has to offer but I don't want to get too hyped then get my heart broken.

All three of those guys listed are not the FO fault but just bad luck. 

Correa on the other hand scares the heck out of me. I think he can be a top pass rusher in this league but don't get why we are trying to convert him to ILB.

out of those 4. I just want 2 to pan out and I'm good lol 

Correa has the size, and if he can run with te's and add some speed in the middle that would be great. They really do need to find what position he is best suited for and stick with it rather than try him at various positions. Hopefully he comes into his own this year. I'll try to stay optimistic. He has the big tackles in front to let him roam free, and we really locked up the secondary, I am actually really impressed. One of the biggest weaknesses and now one of the biggest strengths. Still worried about the O line. Really like to see them get a tackle in the first and possibly the best center in the second. If they can build a dominate offensive line, the Ravens should be pretty good team next year.

[Halshayeji]

6 hours ago, fluffy201 said:

Correa has the size, and if he can run with te's and add some speed in the middle that would be great. They really do need to find what position he is best suited for and stick with it rather than try him at various positions. Hopefully he comes into his own this year. I'll try to stay optimistic. He has the big tackles in front to let him roam free, and we really locked up the secondary, I am actually really impressed. One of the biggest weaknesses and now one of the biggest strengths. Still worried about the O line. Really like to see them get a tackle in the first and possibly the best center in the second. If they can build a dominate offensive line, the Ravens should be pretty good team next year.

What happened to your optimism?! If we draft like last year and address the Oline like we have addressed other positions this offseason then I'd say this team should be dangerous

[Raven1995]

  On 4/8/2017 at 6:16 PM, whobilly said:

  On 4/8/2017 at 2:01 PM, CQ1 said:

"Other teams catching up"?.....Well its all about perspective. You can view it from the Eisenberg angle, and I'll view it from the CQ1 angle- or the ROFO angle (kudos from a member that said I should go root on a Royal Farm related team......that's a classic; for now I'll root on their chicken :)
Quite frankly, since Flacco's emergence into the league, the entire team chemistry has since quickly eroded. Until we can figure out all of the pieces- and, or weapons that are needed to seemingly nurture- or as I tend to see it, pacify him, from the fans point of view. As long as Joe continues to constantly check down, stare down and or stay in the pocket to long- other teams will continue to catch up. I cant wait to hear what the purple-fluff, excuses are going to be this year. Off to Rofo :)

Just curious. How did you feel about Joe when Lee Evans couldn't hang onto the ball in the endzone in the AFC Title Game against the Pats in 2011, when he lead them to great wins in the playoffs and the Ravens captured the ultimate prize, when the D could not hang onto a 14 point lead against the Pats in the playoffs, or when the D couldn't hang on vs the Steelers last year. Wow. That's what I call erosion. You must have loved Chris Redman, Elvis Grbak, and Kyle Boller.

Flacco played on some truly stacked teams. That's why he made the Playoffs 6 times and won a SB. We have overpaid for his talent and now we sit in a position where we can't always retain the guys we need to and we can't add the talent we need to on both sides of the ball in Free Agency. January Joe is a better QB, but don't forget who we lost since 2012. Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Ray Rice, Haloti Ngata, Boldin, Birk, KO, Pollard, Ellerbe, Corey Graham, Pernell McPhee, (Pitta's not the same), (Suggs is no longer in his prime). We need cap space to reload and stack the Roster. Flacco's greedy contracts take up too much Cap Space.

The 2012 Defense was not stacked. They had the worst defense to win a Super in the last 7 years. If you're gonna blame someone for the contract you have to blame the front office not Flacco. If someone offered you 28.5 million a year are you going to say no?

[Raven1995]

  On 4/9/2017 at 0:37 PM, woolly61 said:

  On 4/9/2017 at 2:12 AM, law215 said:

Sounds like excuses or an attempt to justify. If it's a level playing field how are the Raiders and Chiefs stocking team with talent while still making the playoffs? How are the Steelers able to add quality receivers every draft? Maybe what they been doing since 1996 needs to change?

I don't think the Ravens are necessarily bad at drafting, I think other teams are doing a better job of drafting and developing. I also believe the FO lacks confidence in their ability to draft and coaches ability to develop. Why else would they resign Webb in a draft that's deep in secondary? Why sign Watson last year with 4 TEs already on the roster?

This makes me laugh...you might want to use two other teams as examples than the Raiders and the Chiefs. Granted the Raiders went 12-4 last year...but you do realize they missed the playoffs the previous 13 years! Of those 13 years, the Raiders lost 10 or more games 10 times, with two 8-8 seasons and a 7-9. The Chiefs? Well, they have been in the playoffs 3 of the last 4 seasons, but the Chiefs have won one (1!) playoff game since 1993 (the 2015 wild card game vs. the legendary Brian Hoyer-led Texans). In the 19 years since 1998 the Chiefs missed the playoffs 13 times, and 9 of those were with losing records.

You making my point. The Raider got their act together because they CHANGED drafting every fast player from the combine in the first round to getting a solid coach like Del Rio and evaluating talent. The Raiders are trending up.

They are doing a better job ' today' than the Ravens.

It is going to catch up to them to them soon. They are going to have to Pay Khalil Mack and Derek Carr after next year and then Amari Cooper. They Overpayed for Kelechi Osemele Last year so their Big Salary Cap will dwindle Quickly.

[Raven1995]

  13 hours ago, fluffy201 said:

Correa has the size, and if he can run with te's and add some speed in the middle that would be great. They really do need to find what position he is best suited for and stick with it rather than try him at various positions. Hopefully he comes into his own this year. I'll try to stay optimistic. He has the big tackles in front to let him roam free, and we really locked up the secondary, I am actually really impressed. One of the biggest weaknesses and now one of the biggest strengths. Still worried about the O line. Really like to see them get a tackle in the first and possibly the best center in the second. If they can build a dominate offensive line, the Ravens should be pretty good team next year.

What happened to your optimism?! If we draft like last year and address the Oline like we have addressed other positions this offseason then I'd say this team should be dangerous

I'm very optimistic. I just hope Ozzie goes for Quality over Quantity. I would like to see us Move up in the first round and get a play-maker on offense or defense.

[Raven1995]

  On 4/8/2017 at 9:13 PM, Chuckx999 said:

Flacco's greedy contracts take up too much Cap Space!!! You got that right!!!

Also the draft has been to hit or miss. WHo's fault is that, Ozzie or scouts???

Team needs help everywhere, players. coaches, and front office!!!

With regard to Joe's "greedy contracts", remember that his Super Bowl-winning contract was back-loaded, and as such Flacco had the following "cap hits" during these seasons: 2013 -- $6.8M (5.32% of team cap, lower than Suggs $13M, Ngata $11.5M, and Yanda $7.45M); 2014 -- $14.8 mil (11.85% of cap; also on team - Ngata $14M, Yanda $8.45M, Suggs $7.8M, Webb $7.5M); 2015 -- $14,55M (10.30% of cap; also on team - Webb $9.25M, Monroe $7.7M, Dumervil $7.375M, Yanda $6.98M, Pitta $6.2M). Flacco's cap hit was supposed to be $28.55M in 2016, $31.15M in 2017, and $24.75M in 2018; with his restructured deal, the new cap hits are $22,55M in 2016 (also on team - Webb $9.5M, Suggs $7.45M, Dumervil $7.375M), $24.55M in 2017 (also on team - J. Smith $12.6M, Yanda 9.125M, Wallace $8M, and Suggs $6.95M), and $24.75M in 2018 (also $26.5M in 2019, $28.25M in 2020, and $24.25M in 2021).

Compare Flacco's cap hits to Matt Ryan, drafted #3 in the same 2008 draft: 2011 -- Ryan $13.25M cap hit (10.45% of team cap), Flacco $5.725M (4.81%); 2012 -- Ryan $13.5M hit (10.63%), Flacco $8M (6.03%); 2013 -- Ryan $9.6M hit (7.86%), Flacco $6.8M (5.32%); 2014 -- $17.5M hit (13.16%), Flacco $14.8M (11.85%); 2015 -- Ryan $19.5M hit (14.31%); 2016 -- Ryan $23.75M hit (15.3%), Flacco $22.55M (14.94%); 2017 -- Ryan $23.75M (13.96%), Flacco $24.55M (14.48%). [numbers courtesy of sportrac.com]

Flacco definitely needs to step up his game, but who has had more postseason success, he or Ryan? Before this year's trip to the Super Bowl (a legendary loss with a big 2nd half lead helped by someone taking a big sack...), the Falcons had missed the playoffs the previous three seasons and had gone 1-4 in the playoffs since 2008, this despite the presence of receivers Julio Jones, Tony Gonzalez, and Roddy White...

Well said.

[fusuymada]

  On 4/8/2017 at 9:13 PM, Chuckx999 said:

Flacco's greedy contracts take up too much Cap Space!!! You got that right!!!

Also the draft has been to hit or miss. WHo's fault is that, Ozzie or scouts???

Team needs help everywhere, players. coaches, and front office!!!

With regard to Joe's "greedy contracts", remember that his Super Bowl-winning contract was back-loaded, and as such Flacco had the following "cap hits" during these seasons: 2013 -- $6.8M (5.32% of team cap, lower than Suggs $13M, Ngata $11.5M, and Yanda $7.45M); 2014 -- $14.8 mil (11.85% of cap; also on team - Ngata $14M, Yanda $8.45M, Suggs $7.8M, Webb $7.5M); 2015 -- $14,55M (10.30% of cap; also on team - Webb $9.25M, Monroe $7.7M, Dumervil $7.375M, Yanda $6.98M, Pitta $6.2M). Flacco's cap hit was supposed to be $28.55M in 2016, $31.15M in 2017, and $24.75M in 2018; with his restructured deal, the new cap hits are $22,55M in 2016 (also on team - Webb $9.5M, Suggs $7.45M, Dumervil $7.375M), $24.55M in 2017 (also on team - J. Smith $12.6M, Yanda 9.125M, Wallace $8M, and Suggs $6.95M), and $24.75M in 2018 (also $26.5M in 2019, $28.25M in 2020, and $24.25M in 2021).

Compare Flacco's cap hits to Matt Ryan, drafted #3 in the same 2008 draft: 2011 -- Ryan $13.25M cap hit (10.45% of team cap), Flacco $5.725M (4.81%); 2012 -- Ryan $13.5M hit (10.63%), Flacco $8M (6.03%); 2013 -- Ryan $9.6M hit (7.86%), Flacco $6.8M (5.32%); 2014 -- $17.5M hit (13.16%), Flacco $14.8M (11.85%); 2015 -- Ryan $19.5M hit (14.31%); 2016 -- Ryan $23.75M hit (15.3%), Flacco $22.55M (14.94%); 2017 -- Ryan $23.75M (13.96%), Flacco $24.55M (14.48%). [numbers courtesy of sportrac.com]

Flacco definitely needs to step up his game, but who has had more postseason success, he or Ryan? Before this year's trip to the Super Bowl (a legendary loss with a big 2nd half lead helped by someone taking a big sack...), the Falcons had missed the playoffs the previous three seasons and had gone 1-4 in the playoffs since 2008, this despite the presence of receivers Julio Jones, Tony Gonzalez, and Roddy White...

Problem is with fans is that they live in the past. What Flacco did 2 or 3 years ago means nothing to me and means nothing to people who analyze players in the NFL. It TRULY is a what have you done for me lately league. Rarely do players skill sets drop off in any given year and then they come back the next 3 or 4 years and are pro bowlers. Recent history with a player is a GREAT indication of how they will play in the future. The only slack I give Flacco is that he was coming off an ACL tear which you could clearly see caused him mobility issues and even when he was better, by lugging around that knee brace, he was quite inhibited. However, Flacco has never been an accurate passer, thus his ratings are always in the bottom half of the league. Add to it his injuries and we had a QB that wouldn't start on most teams in the league. My opinion on Flaccos Cap hit is that he sees what it is doing to the team, he knows he isn't producing at that level but Joe is a Joe guy and thats his money and he has every right to it. However, a team player like Brady, Manning, Brees etc... were in that position and they volunteered to take pay cuts to bring in the talent they needed to win. I don't think Joe even cares enough about winning to care about the talent around him. If I had just raked in 100 million and 50 mil after taxes, and I had invested the money properly, I wouldn't need to keep soaking my team and putting them at a competitive disadvantage. Granted, he signed a contract that was given to him but thats on the front office. What Dak Prescott has taught me, the same thing that Flacco taught me in his first three years, your QB if given time can be a stud. Dallas put Prescott and Elliott behind the best line in the league and it showed. The Ravens put Flacco behind one of the worst lines in the league and IT showed. An average QB with a great O-line will get you to the playoffs every time. So Ozzie should have invested in KO, kept Tyrod Taylor, Let Joe walk, and our team would have been considerably better. Not because of Tyrod, but because we would have had the money to get a good O-Line like when Joe first started and didn't eat up the salary cap allowing the team to put studs around Taylor.