The Horsemans draft haul.

[PurpleHorseman]

7 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

i would sacrifice an elite RT for a serviceable RT to have a pair of elite guards, no question. RT is simply the least important position probably on the entire offense its the most avoidable and visible area of attack from a qb/rb perspective and a good pass rusher vs a weak RT can actually be exploited quite easily with designed dumpoffs, edge rushers simply dont tend to have the discipline to cover the safety valve when given an easy rush and its the most effortless pass a qb could make, that rush often leaves a nice fat void to exploit given the alignment is right(basically have the slot to the left and run the strongside TE across the field). 

how do you think brady so often exploits edge rushers and why do you think they so often emphasize pass catching rbs? its extremely effective, we did it very well when we had ray rice and michael oher was stinkin up the joint. but this tactic will fail often if the center and guard is getting shoved into the qbs lap, as will every tactic. 

i would, without question, take cam robinson or forrest lamp at 16 and kick alex lewis out to RT and leave collins the hell alone, not worth the payday he'll want after a year and not worth the investment to trade for. plus i think both cam and lamp project to just be better guards than collins, they both could struggle as tackles where collins would be serviceable, but theres no point investing so much into collins to be a serviceable RT when you can find those kinds of guys pretty easily. honestly i think you are just way too sold on collins. not to say hes a bad player, but i dont see anything close to this "best OL in the league" you see, not even top 10 at his given position. coming out of college i thought he was a solid prospect as a swing guy and nothing more and his play in the NFL has only reinforced that opinion. 

is he even gonna start over leary in 2017?

Leary signed with Broncos. Collins is probably playing RT.  Leary while a really good guard is limited to playing guard. I like the idea of elite guards. But I would actually prefer elite Guards and an elite RT that could excel at Left tackle if needed there. lol the goal is to blow the opponents off the line on every snap and control the line so Joe comfortablly looks over his receivers sets and throws. His receivers have time to work any route strategy. And the runner has holes to work through. We control the line, the clock and the game. 😉 Methodically sustain drives. Best way to beat Tom Brady is keep out of game.

Edited April 9 by PurpleHorseman

[52520Andrew]

11 hours ago, PurpleHorseman said:

I would prefer an elite guard/RT to chandler Jones. Collins will eventually play RT in Dallas and get recognized as one of the best lineman in the game. Edge rushers are great to have. But I'm going to prioritize the offensive line without question. Collins dominated all the elite sec edge rushers. He was Mayock's top offensive lineman in a draft where 6 I believe went in round1. 

Your Ron Leary idea isn't bad. We should of signed him. He has a powerful anchor. Ask jj watt. He isn't as mobile as Collins and can't play tackle like Collins. and isn't quite the drive blocker because he can't run his feet quite like Collins. But he gets to next level well enough and his anchor is as good as it gets.

If we would of signed Leary the question is could Lewis play RT? Harbaugh is very adamant about the guard thing but I think he could play RT very well if given opportunity. If we could have signed Leary then Lewis would have to play Tackle. Unless we drafted Cam or Lamp to play Tackle. Harbaugh said Lewis at center was an option. But I think Lamp would be better for Center. Any of those scenarios would of put our offensive line complete and dominant to add Leary then Draft One of Lamp/Cam. Lewis I do think is going to be good

Maybe you think that but the actual smart people in the league don't. RTs or OGs make about 12 mil per year max. Chandler Jones is getting way more than that and he ain't the only one. 

Also where did I say I wanted Leary? Are you even reading what I said? I said he outplayed Collins at Guard which he did.

Collins at RT is a question mark given he hasn't played the position in the NFL. The fact the Cowboys didn't play him there with Doug Free being their weakest link could indicate they aren't huge fans of him at RT.

Also Collins was not a better prospect than Stanley or Tunsil and I'd take Scherff over him as well. 

Sorry but trading the 16th pick for a guard/RT a year from FA is stupid. 

[PurpleHorseman]

1 hour ago, 52520Andrew said:

Maybe you think that but the actual smart people in the league don't. RTs or OGs make about 12 mil per year max. Chandler Jones is getting way more than that and he ain't the only one. 

Also where did I say I wanted Leary? Are you even reading what I said? I said he outplayed Collins at Guard which he did.

Collins at RT is a question mark given he hasn't played the position in the NFL. The fact the Cowboys didn't play him there with Doug Free being their weakest link could indicate they aren't huge fans of him at RT.

Also Collins was not a better prospect than Stanley or Tunsil and I'd take Scherff over him as well. 

Sorry but trading the 16th pick for a guard/RT a year from FA is stupid. 

So YOU say it is stupid?? Prifrssionals paid to do it say different. So the cowboys played Collins at a position of need at the time. And your conclusion is cowboys aren't fans of his skillset to play RT?? Don't think it was anything to do with Free was playing that position at a comfortable level? And Guard was the need at time? The weakest link on the best line in the league is better than most.

You would seriously take Scherf over Collins?? Talk about stupid ideas? Many "Professional" analysts put him at the top of their offensive line board by draft day. Mayock and Jerimiah to name a couple. Their explanation was knew he was a nasty mauler but he is a far better athlete than once thought. And it was a year like 6 offensive lineman went in round 1.  Scherf was humiliated by Ngakoue. Go look at all the great sec edge rushers that said Collins was the toughest blocker ever faced on any level. Are you going to be on RSR  next year? When Collins is playing lights out it is going to be interesting what you have to say.

[52520Andrew]

1 minute ago, PurpleHorseman said:

So YOU say it is stupid?? Prifrssionals paid to do it say different. So the cowboys played Collins at a position of need at the time. And your conclusion is cowboys aren't fans of his skillset to play RT?? Don't think it was anything to do with Free was playing that position at a comfortable level? And Guard was the need at time? The weakest link on the best line in the league is better than most.

You would seriously take Scherf over Collins?? Talk about stupid ideas? Many "Professional" analysts put him at the top of their offensive line board by draft day. Mayock and Jerimiah to name a couple. Their explanation was knew he was a nasty mauler but he is a far better athlete than once thought. And it was a year like 6 offensive lineman went in round 1.  Scherf was humiliated by Ngakoue. Go look at all the great sec edge rushers that said Collins was the toughest blocker ever faced on any level. Are you going to be on RSR  next year? When Collins is playing lights out it is going to be interesting what you have to say.

Stupid to give up the 16th pick for an average guard a year from FA? YEAH, why else do you think you are getting negged like crazy lol. Considering how Leary did well in 2014 and this past year while Free has struggled the past couple years, yeah it would make more sense for the Cowboys to move Collins to RT if they liked him there. They didn't move him though and if they are more comfortable with Free at the position, doesn't really look good for Collins at RT here.

Yeah, had Scherff higher and still do. Considering he went in the top 5 while Collins was maybe the 15th best player in the class before the whole situation with him, I'd say a lot of people agree with me. You really need to get over your man crush on Collins, it is getting kinda sad at this point. Pretty sure people have already commented loads of people better than Collins around the league. Go dig for it and watch some actual film on those guys. 

Honestly I would love to be around RSR just for the entertainment value of watching you say Collins is better than guys like KO, Yanda, among many others but I'm gonna have to pass that responsibility to others. Don't worry, I am sure they will laugh at you just as much haha

[PurpleHorseman]

1 hour ago, 52520Andrew said:

Stupid to give up the 16th pick for an average guard a year from FA? YEAH, why else do you think you are getting negged like crazy lol. Considering how Leary did well in 2014 and this past year while Free has struggled the past couple years, yeah it would make more sense for the Cowboys to move Collins to RT if they liked him there. They didn't move him though and if they are more comfortable with Free at the position, doesn't really look good for Collins at RT here.

Yeah, had Scherff higher and still do. Considering he went in the top 5 while Collins was maybe the 15th best player in the class before the whole situation with him, I'd say a lot of people agree with me. You really need to get over your man crush on Collins, it is getting kinda sad at this point. Pretty sure people have already commented loads of people better than Collins around the league. Go dig for it and watch some actual film on those guys. 

Honestly I would love to be around RSR just for the entertainment value of watching you say Collins is better than guys like KO, Yanda, among many others but I'm gonna have to pass that responsibility to others. Don't worry, I am sure they will laugh at you just as much haha

And better than Scherf?? Lmao like I said if negs meant squat Upshaw would be an all pro. Round1 picks are traded for Great players says professionals that get paid to do it. Scherf is a total bust at tackle and you would take him before Collins?? Seriously?? If Collins isn't all pro caliber I'm wrong. If he is you will regroup your argument.

Edited April 10 by PurpleHorseman

[52520Andrew]

5 minutes ago, PurpleHorseman said:

And better than Scherf?? Lmao

Collins could get better if he can stay healthy but 16 for Collins is just hilarious and if after 4 pages of people pointing out how stupid it is, you still are riding that hype train, there is really no helping you lol

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Late to the party but is someone legitimately suggesting we trade pick 16 for Lael Collins?

Gonna stay outta this thread.....

[JoeyFlex5]

Can we all just agree that this is far from the realm of possibility and illogical?

[PurpleHorseman]

51 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Can we all just agree that this is far from the realm of possibility and illogical?

Know it probably wouldn't happen. But he is my pick to become the best offensive lineman in the  league and would like to have him. All I'm saying if we were to trade our NO. 1 for Collins and thrift NO.2 or 3 that his play would definitely justify the move.

[rossihunter2]

5 hours ago, PurpleHorseman said:

And better than Scherf?? Lmao like I said if negs meant squat Upshaw would be an all pro. Round1 picks are traded for Great players says professionals that get paid to do it. Scherf is a total bust at tackle and you would take him before Collins?? Seriously?? If Collins isn't all pro caliber I'm wrong. If he is you will regroup your argument.

If this were the case, teams would make trades like this all the time. But they don't... that in and of itself should tell you something about this idea. As for Collins's value - read my earlier post about the state of line play in the league and then tell me why Collins is better than all of those guys going forward and why having him for 1 year is worth a pick that would give us 5 years of a potentially great player - not an average to slightly above average lineman who hasn't shown the versatility you suggest he has yet. 

[usmccharles]

Has the Ravens ever in the 20+ years traded their first round pick for a player? Im not being sarcastic, actually asking.  Im not exactly a fan of this draft.  In a defensive loaded drafted i would rather (i think the FO would as well) grab a younger player at a cheaper cost, which any player we select would be just that.  When doing a mock i think its important to put players that are off the board, it gives context to the players you selected (at least in the first, doing that for the whole draft would be obviously too time consuming).

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

7 hours ago, 52520Andrew said:

Collins could get better if he can stay healthy but 16 for Collins is just hilarious and if after 4 pages of people pointing out how stupid it is, you still are riding that hype train, there is really no helping you lol

I'm agreeing with you.

 

What tomfoolery is this. You must be reading my mind. Stop stealing my opinions you mooch

[52520Andrew]

10 hours ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

I'm agreeing with you.

 

What tomfoolery is this. You must be reading my mind. Stop stealing my opinions you mooch

How else do you think I was able to make Romo retire? That type of move takes a while to make happen even for me so I needed a good head start

[PurpleHorseman]

12 hours ago, usmccharles said:

Has the Ravens ever in the 20+ years traded their first round pick for a player? Im not being sarcastic, actually asking.  Im not exactly a fan of this draft.  In a defensive loaded drafted i would rather (i think the FO would as well) grab a younger player at a cheaper cost, which any player we select would be just that.  When doing a mock i think its important to put players that are off the board, it gives context to the players you selected (at least in the first, doing that for the whole draft would be obviously too time consuming).

I know it's not likely to happen but negs is not changing my mind. Now if there was honesty and credibility on this board I may reconsider. But fans who negged the idea of Upshaw and Elam a bust. One of several bad crazy biased thoughts on this forum. Need I go further and say some different things that were almost unanimous this board yet wrong? 

I like the idea of building up the offensive line. However I'm not sure there is a player that fits pick16. Lamp is the best lineman. However I don't think he could play Tackle at an all pro level in the NFL. He could be an all pro center. But he isn't the caliber that Collins is. I like Lamp a lot. But he isn't pancaking NFL players very often. Much less 2 all pro defensive players on the same play. He isn't pancaking many NFL lineman on his way to taking out a linebacker on the same play like Collins with regularity. Nor is any offensive lineman Available at pick 16 we can get in this particular draft

 

Edited April 10 by PurpleHorseman

[usmccharles]

42 minutes ago, PurpleHorseman said:

I know it's not likely to happen but negs is not changing my mind. Now if there was honesty and credibility on this board I may reconsider. But fans who negged the idea of Upshaw and Elam a bust. One of several bad crazy biased thoughts on this forum. Need I go further and say some different things that were almost unanimous this board yet wrong?

Honesty and credibility is on this board, just have to chose who to believe.  If I was a brick wall, id probably give credibility to RayRay.  Certain posters over time show their knowledge, regardless if you like them or not.  Perfect example is RmcJacket, he uses facts when he makes an argument, so its easy to prove what he says is a fact and not opinion. 

I think its more wishful thinking on your part just wanting said player, I just don't see getting a good return giving up our 16th pick.  But when doing a mock, shouldn't you be more realistic?  I mean its your mock and all, do what ya want.  But that would be like me doing a mock giving up our next three 1s to get Garret, its not impossible that would never happen, just highly unlikely....

Edited April 10 by usmccharles

[PurpleHorseman]

23 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Honesty and credibility is on this board, just have to chose who to believe.  If I was a brick wall, id probably give credibility to RayRay.  Certain posters over time show their knowledge, regardless if you like them or not.  Perfect example is RmcJacket, he uses facts when he makes an argument, so its easy to prove what he says is a fact and not opinion. 

I think its more wishful thinking on your part just wanting said player, I just don't see getting a good return giving up our 16th pick.  But when doing a mock, shouldn't you be more realistic?  I mean its your mock and all, do what ya want.  But that would be like me doing a mock giving up our next three 1s to get Garret, its not impossible that would ever happen, just highly unlikely....

You said it well. Not likely to be traded for. But Collins is my pick to be recognized as a top 5 offensive lineman in the NFL and maybe even best overall. As for Garrett I wouldn't trade 3 round1 picks. But some team may trade their draft. You don't get players that caliber in free agency.until 10 yrs in the league and no longer that caliber athlete. Not sure I would trade every pick of draft for Garrett??

Edited April 10 by PurpleHorseman

[usmccharles]

1 hour ago, PurpleHorseman said:

You said it well. Not likely to be traded for. But Collins is my pick to be recognized as a top 5 offensive lineman in the NFL and maybe even best overall. As for Garrett I wouldn't trade 3 round1 picks. But some team may trade their draft. You don't get players that caliber in free agency.until 10 yrs in the league and no longer that caliber athlete. Not sure I would trade every pick of draft for Garrett??

I was using Garret as an example as I would have a hard time giving up so much for a player that's not a QB.  Trading for a player that's 2 years away from contract expiration is risky, especially considering we didn't resign the last two Ts to become FA.  We might get two years, but id be willing to bet he would test the market as we don't normally pay big contracts, as recent evidence and as normal we would get outbid. 

I understand your premise, I just think that's not a very good move for our franchise, but to each their own.