[News] Late For Work 4/6: Nick Mangold Leaves Without Contract, But Interest Remains On Both Sides

[Halshayeji]

11 minutes ago, steelcityraven said:

I like McKinley....and really do not think that shoulder will be an issue, plus he will not need to come in and be the instant starter. We have Suggs and Judon and they can hold it down and we can work McKinley in at his pace.

I also like Tim Williams -OLB -BAMMA who should be available to us in round # 2.

I don't just like the guy! I love him! I also don't think his talent is a secret as he played for Alabama. This id say there's a 25% chance he's on the board when we pick and a 75% percent chance we take himIf he's there regardless of who we draft 16 overall

[BrianRandolph011]

They are going to build the O Line first.. They understand, now* that Joe needs it and for 6yrs/120 mil. he's not going anywhere..

Expect a T at 16.. or us to move back if we think we can still get the T we want later in the first and steal another 2nd rounder.

Stanley
A. Lewis
Nick Mangold
Yanda
and top T in this year draft

would be good enough for best O Line in the division for sure..

[rmcjacket23]

  2 hours ago, ellicottraven said:

I believe the reason Mangold left without a contract simply has to do with money. I believe he's healthy to play which is a great thing. He will become the second coming of Matt Birk and protect the pocket space behind center for Joe to operate in. Will be a great signing if it happens.

I think we showed our cards waaaay to early by trading zuttah and now Mangold is calling our bluff! His agent knows that we are desperate and that never helps when negotiating for a contract.

why did we have to trade zuttah away to move up 12 picks in the 6th round?!

1. For the cap space.

2. Because he's not a very good Center and I don't think we had any intention of him being on the team in 2017 regardless. We cut and trade players all the time with no obvious replacement available. That's what FA and the draft is for.

I doubt Mangold really has much leg to stand on in terms of contract negotiations. This isn't the first wave of FA where he has multiple suitors. He maybe only has a couple teams even interested in him at this point. An obvious declining, older player coming off significant injury is not going to be somebody where negotiations are going to be substantial.

[b93333]

I fear we will live to regret sending Mangold on his way.

[rossihunter2]

42 minutes ago, steelcityraven said:

or
Round 1. Takkarist McKinley-OLB-UCLA
Round 2. TreDavious White- CB-LSU
Round 3. Sid Jones-CB- Wash
Round 3. Ethan Pocic-C-LSU
Round 4. De De Westbrook- WR-Okla
Round 5. Stacy Coley- WR- Miami
Round 6. Levon Myers- G/T- Northern Illinois

We won't draft Dede Westbrook anywhere in the draft, Stacy Conley is a reach as is levon Myers - I also don't personally like pocic that much - he just seems too tall to be an effective center in the NFL 

[Halshayeji]

 

29 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

1. For the cap space.

2. Because he's not a very good Center and I don't think we had any intention of him being on the team in 2017 regardless. We cut and trade players all the time with no obvious replacement available. That's what FA and the draft is for.

I doubt Mangold really has much leg to stand on in terms of contract negotiations. This isn't the first wave of FA where he has multiple suitors. He maybe only has a couple teams even interested in him at this point. An obvious declining, older player coming off significant injury is not going to be somebody where negotiations are going to be substantial.

1- Cap space was and still is irrelevant when it comes to the timing of Zuttahs trade.

2- like him or hate him, we should have kept zuttah untill we have an upgrade signed.

3- its foolish to call a pro bowl center not that good. He was the best we had since Gino Gradkowski

4- if mangold had no leverage then he would have taken anything we offered him

i honestly think we could have kept zuttah untill after the draft or untill we got a better offer. We didn't need the cap and havnt used it since

Edited April 6 by Halshayeji

[cobrajet]

  2 hours ago, stuckonaboat13 said:

I have faith in Urschel. Call me crazy but I think he can handle it. The guy is clearly smart enough to understand the mental demands of center. Physically he is slightly undersized at 300lbs but intelligence and quickness can counter that.

And what exactly fuels this faith of yours? I don't think it was his performance - because it has so far been mediocre at best... Also, the fact that a rookie and an eternal journeyman (Ducasse) easily overtook him on the depth chart doesn't seem to indicate he's starting caliber...

I completely agree.

[balfan23]

It feels like when a guy is brought in like we did with Mangold, they either leave with a contract or are never signed by the team that let them walk away without a deal. Based on that, my assumption is the odds of us signing Mangold are not good. Not saying it couldn't happen ... just that the odds are not in favor of a deal being made. 

[rmcjacket23]

5 minutes ago, Halshayeji said:

 

1- Cap space was and still is irrelevant when it comes to the timing of Zuttahs trade.

2- like him or hate him, we should have kept zuttah untill we have an upgrade signed.

3- its foolish to call a pro bowl center not that good. He was the best we had since Gino Gradkowski

4- if mangold had no leverage then he would have taken anything we offered him

i honestly think we could have kept zuttah untill after the draft or untill we got a better offer. We didn't need the cap and havnt used it since

1. No, its irrelevant to YOU, because you fail to comprehend why its so important

2. That makes no sense. Again, if we know we have zero interest in him being our Center next year (which its clear we didn't), then we gain nothing by hanging on to him. Even if we never sign or draft anybody, he's still a goner. Delaying benefits the Ravens in no possible way.

3. Ignoring the hilariousness of anybody thinking the Pro Bowl is an indication of how good a player is, Gino was here just two years ago. So saying that Zuttah is the best Center we've had in a whopping 2-3 years, considering how bad Gino was, is pretty comical.

There's a difference between being a good Center and being a Center that is better than Gino. You're correct that the latter is accurate, but literally nobody that watched Zuttah play this past year thought that he played well. The Baltimore Ravens certainly didn't, since he's no longer here.

If you think we're getting a better offer AFTER the draft, you're delusional. All the draft does, by definition, is reduce the market for veterans that aren't signed at that time.

[rmcjacket23]

4 minutes ago, balfan23 said:

It feels like when a guy is brought in like we did with Mangold, they either leave with a contract or are never signed by the team that let them walk away without a deal. Based on that, my assumption is the odds of us signing Mangold are not good. Not saying it couldn't happen ... just that the odds are not in favor of a deal being made. 

During the early stages of FA, I would agree.

But in this case, it could be a combination of a number of different things. Certainly possible Mangold wasn't happy with the offer and wants to wait a bit to see if other teams are interested in him. That could benefit him or backfire... time will tell.

Also possible that the Ravens don't want to commit to him yet. Could wait until after the draft to see if another veteran becomes available, or could even draft one.

My guess is you'll see us sign him prior to the draft. His market is pretty cold from what I see.

[balfan23]

2 hours ago, stuckonaboat13 said:

I have faith in Urschel. Call me crazy but I think he can handle it. The guy is clearly smart enough to understand the mental demands of center. Physically he is slightly undersized at 300lbs but intelligence and quickness can counter that.

Had you talked to me last offseason, I'd have said my expectations would be that Urschel would get time in the o line rotation during the course of the 2016 season and that we'd be ready to replace Zuttah with him going into the 2017 season. 

However ... he did get time in the o line rotation during the course of the 2016 season and gave the team little reason to view him as anything more than deep depth. Both he and Jensen had ample opportunity to prove they belonged in the starting line up and neither one distinguished themselves. The starting center position and the starting RT position (or LG position, if we shift Lewis to RT) is likely to be filled via FA or draft and not internally (at least that's my hope, given there is IMO no back up from last year's roster that is starter worthy). 

[budman]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

1. For the cap space.

2. Because he's not a very good Center and I don't think we had any intention of him being on the team in 2017 regardless. We cut and trade players all the time with no obvious replacement available. That's what FA and the draft is for.

I doubt Mangold really has much leg to stand on in terms of contract negotiations. This isn't the first wave of FA where he has multiple suitors. He maybe only has a couple teams even interested in him at this point. An obvious declining, older player coming off significant injury is not going to be somebody where negotiations are going to be substantial.

Agree. Not to mention that players are very hesitant to sign injury waivers, which I am sure our FO wants him to do.

[BiggMack91]

anyone other than me like Greg Pyke coming out of GEORGIA
PLAYER OVERVIEW

Certainly a great deal of the reason for Georgia's success running the football in recent years has been the talent lining up in the backfield. A talented offensive line, however, has also played an important role with Pyke - a former highly regarded lacrosse recruit - emerging as a verifiable star at right guard in 2014.
Pyke entered the '14 season with zero career starts and only two game appearances after redshirting in 2012. He won the starting right guard role after an impressive spring, which concluded with him being recognized by the team as the "Most Improved Offensive Player" by the coaching staff. Pyke started all 13 games for the Bulldogs in 2014, earning Second Team All-SEC honors and once again being highlighted by Richt and his staff as the team's Most Improved player.

STRENGTHS / WEAKNESSES

STRENGTHS: Pyke possesses great core strength and leg drive which allows him to push defensive tackles off the ball on his way toward the second level.
Understands angles, consistently placing himself between the defender and his running back. Creative when blocking on the move, striking defenders with force when he resorting to cut blocks when necessary. Doesn't waste time worrying about defenders who may have slipped past, instead re-focusing on other targets, often blocking multiple opponents on the same play.

In pass protection, Pyke shows good initial quickness, as well as lateral agility to mirror defenders. He attacks defenders with a strong initial punch and anchors well due to proper knee bend and his core strength. Alert to stunts and surprise blitzes.

WEAKNESSES: Lacks ideal agility to track down linebackers.

[fusuymada]

With Ozzie declaring another free agent will be signed before the draft, PFT believes it is Lardarius Webb returning as a more likely candidate for that signing than Mangold.

Edited April 6 by fusuymada

[Halshayeji]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

1. No, its irrelevant to YOU, because you fail to comprehend why its so important

2. That makes no sense. Again, if we know we have zero interest in him being our Center next year (which its clear we didn't), then we gain nothing by hanging on to him. Even if we never sign or draft anybody, he's still a goner. Delaying benefits the Ravens in no possible way.

3. Ignoring the hilariousness of anybody thinking the Pro Bowl is an indication of how good a player is, Gino was here just two years ago. So saying that Zuttah is the best Center we've had in a whopping 2-3 years, considering how bad Gino was, is pretty comical.

There's a difference between being a good Center and being a Center that is better than Gino. You're correct that the latter is accurate, but literally nobody that watched Zuttah play this past year thought that he played well. The Baltimore Ravens certainly didn't, since he's no longer here.

If you think we're getting a better offer AFTER the draft, you're delusional. All the draft does, by definition, is reduce the market for veterans that aren't signed at that time.

1- your missing my point. Don't force a trade! We could have kept him and released him draft day for all I care

2- I know he was a goner but bu releasing him you tell everyone that your desperate. Again your missing my point. Keep him so you don't have to over pay for whoever you bring. If someone offered us a 5th then yes you capitalize on the value. We forced a trade to move up 8 picks in the 6th round?! That's not necesarry. I would have been ok with cutting him for nothing the day we sign his replacement (draft or FA)

3- its called sarcasm. Of course I only brought up Gino as a joke, you didn't have to write two paragraphs lol

again it's not about getting a better offer as much as not showing your cards since the trade was really worthless. Cutting him a month later wouldn't have changed anything in out approach in FA but it might have given us leverage to trade for a lineman. Or sign someone in FA. Now we seem desperate and that's my concern. I honestly hope you get my point this time..

[rmcjacket23]

12 minutes ago, Halshayeji said:

1- your missing my point. Don't force a trade! We could have kept him and released him draft day for all I care

2- I know he was a goner but bu releasing him you tell everyone that your desperate. Again your missing my point. Keep him so you don't have to over pay for whoever you bring. If someone offered us a 5th then yes you capitalize on the value. We forced a trade to move up 8 picks in the 6th round?! That's not necesarry. I would have been ok with cutting him for nothing the day we sign his replacement (draft or FA)

3- its called sarcasm. Of course I only brought up Gino as a joke, you didn't have to write two paragraphs lol

again it's not about getting a better offer as much as not showing your cards since the trade was really worthless. Cutting him a month later wouldn't have changed anything in out approach in FA but it might have given us leverage to trade for a lineman. Or sign someone in FA. Now we seem desperate and that's my concern. I honestly hope you get my point this time..

I still don't see why we are perceived as being desperate? I think YOU think we are desperate, but I don't see anything from the FO to indicate we are desperate. Its April, not September. 

Could draft a Center. Could sign a Center... now, or in May, or June, or July, or August, or even September. Frankly, a better player may be available 4 months from now then right now... we simply don't know.

Certainly don't see any logic to the notion that we "forced a trade", because there's nothing to suggest we would get a better pick now or in the future. That's just a straight gamble and speculation. 

We have the same leverage in a trade that we did a month ago when he was still here. You don't think other teams around the league have reasonable insight into what players may be available from other teams? You don't think that other NFL teams realized that we weren't happy with Zuttah's performance and he would probably be available via a cut or trade?

Seems like very unwarranted paranoia on your part. Definitely don't agree with your perception of desperation in the least bit.

Edited April 6 by rmcjacket23

[rmcjacket23]

30 minutes ago, fusuymada said:

With Ozzie declaring another free agent will be signed before the draft, PFT believes it is Lardarius Webb returning as a more likely candidate for that signing than Mangold.

Or both.

[reed20]

We need the man of gold

[billiejean]

anyone other than me like Greg Pyke coming out of GEORGIA
PLAYER OVERVIEW

Certainly a great deal of the reason for Georgia's success running the football in recent years has been the talent lining up in the backfield. A talented offensive line, however, has also played an important role with Pyke - a former highly regarded lacrosse recruit - emerging as a verifiable star at right guard in 2014.
Pyke entered the '14 season with zero career starts and only two game appearances after redshirting in 2012. He won the starting right guard role after an impressive spring, which concluded with him being recognized by the team as the "Most Improved Offensive Player" by the coaching staff. Pyke started all 13 games for the Bulldogs in 2014, earning Second Team All-SEC honors and once again being highlighted by Richt and his staff as the team's Most Improved player.

STRENGTHS / WEAKNESSES

STRENGTHS: Pyke possesses great core strength and leg drive which allows him to push defensive tackles off the ball on his way toward the second level.
Understands angles, consistently placing himself between the defender and his running back. Creative when blocking on the move, striking defenders with force when he resorting to cut blocks when necessary. Doesn't waste time worrying about defenders who may have slipped past, instead re-focusing on other targets, often blocking multiple opponents on the same play.

In pass protection, Pyke shows good initial quickness, as well as lateral agility to mirror defenders. He attacks defenders with a strong initial punch and anchors well due to proper knee bend and his core strength. Alert to stunts and surprise blitzes.

WEAKNESSES: Lacks ideal agility to track down linebackers.

He may not even get drafted. I could definitely see him as a UDFA. Do you know this guy or something?

[steelcityraven]

  3 hours ago, steelcityraven said:

or
Round 1. Takkarist McKinley-OLB-UCLA
Round 2. TreDavious White- CB-LSU
Round 3. Sid Jones-CB- Wash
Round 3. Ethan Pocic-C-LSU
Round 4. De De Westbrook- WR-Okla
Round 5. Stacy Coley- WR- Miami
Round 6. Levon Myers- G/T- Northern Illinois

We won't draft Dede Westbrook anywhere in the draft, Stacy Conley is a reach as is levon Myers - I also don't personally like pocic that much - he just seems too tall to be an effective center in the NFL 

Westbrook is the most under rated WR in the draft this year and one of the most under rated players overall....Look at his production and his play making ability / not his 40 time and combine numbers. He could come here and start as our slot WR right now. TBH the thought of Westbrook working the slot with Perriman and Wallace taking the top off is a little exciting. Just curious why you are so sure that the Ravens will not draft him? (I personally think Westbrook reminds me a lot of SSS when he came out of Utah)!

Pocic can play both C and G and most analysts have him rated as one of the top C in the draft and some even call him the top. Not sure they are thinking he is too tall . He seems to be exactly the type of guy that Greg Roman likes.... just curious why you don't like him?

Coley can be a starting returner right now.... when you pick a WR in the 5th round of the draft... you are not expecting them to come in and start and he wouldn't (probably as a WR) but he has potential to develop into that. He is a very raw but explosive athlete and has good speed. He can be our starter in the return game now (something we have been missing for some time... so a dangerous starter in the return game with potential to become a productive slot WR in the NFL in the 5th round .... I wouldn't call that a reach but I am curious why you would.

Myers is compared by CBS Sports to Rick Wagner and Kiper compared him to Villeneuva (sp) of the Steelers.... Both starters and Wagner just became one of the highest paid RT in the NFL. The knock on Myers is that he is slow. The Ravens would probably be looking at moving him inside and ALewis outside. Which would negate the biggest knock against him. He is described as a powerful grinder, who has a mean streak in the run game. Prisco, Kiper, CBS sports and more project him as a possible starter in the NFL...

I wouldn't call that a reach in the 6th round? Just curious why you do? Remember that this is the 6th round... most 6th rounders don't even make the team.

What is it about these guys that make them a reach that late in the draft?

[Swift 1]

Didn't I read on these boards that Zuttah and Maigold had same strengths and weakness?

 

[TheConquerorWorm]

  5 hours ago, rossihunter2 said:

  6 hours ago, steelcityraven said:

or
Round 1. Takkarist McKinley-OLB-UCLA
Round 2. TreDavious White- CB-LSU
Round 3. Sid Jones-CB- Wash
Round 3. Ethan Pocic-C-LSU
Round 4. De De Westbrook- WR-Okla
Round 5. Stacy Coley- WR- Miami
Round 6. Levon Myers- G/T- Northern Illinois

We won't draft Dede Westbrook anywhere in the draft, Stacy Conley is a reach as is levon Myers - I also don't personally like pocic that much - he just seems too tall to be an effective center in the NFL 

Westbrook is the most under rated WR in the draft this year and one of the most under rated players overall....Look at his production and his play making ability / not his 40 time and combine numbers. He could come here and start as our slot WR right now. TBH the thought of Westbrook working the slot with Perriman and Wallace taking the top off is a little exciting. Just curious why you are so sure that the Ravens will not draft him? (I personally think Westbrook reminds me a lot of SSS when he came out of Utah)!

Pocic can play both C and G and most analysts have him rated as one of the top C in the draft and some even call him the top. Not sure they are thinking he is too tall . He seems to be exactly the type of guy that Greg Roman likes.... just curious why you don't like him?

Coley can be a starting returner right now.... when you pick a WR in the 5th round of the draft... you are not expecting them to come in and start and he wouldn't (probably as a WR) but he has potential to develop into that. He is a very raw but explosive athlete and has good speed. He can be our starter in the return game now (something we have been missing for some time... so a dangerous starter in the return game with potential to become a productive slot WR in the NFL in the 5th round .... I wouldn't call that a reach but I am curious why you would.

Myers is compared by CBS Sports to Rick Wagner and Kiper compared him to Villeneuva (sp) of the Steelers.... Both starters and Wagner just became one of the highest paid RT in the NFL. The knock on Myers is that he is slow. The Ravens would probably be looking at moving him inside and ALewis outside. Which would negate the biggest knock against him. He is described as a powerful grinder, who has a mean streak in the run game. Prisco, Kiper, CBS sports and more project him as a possible starter in the NFL...

I wouldn't call that a reach in the 6th round? Just curious why you do? Remember that this is the 6th round... most 6th rounders don't even make the team.

What is it about these guys that make them a reach that late in the draft?

Westbrook has Domestic Violence issues. In case you missed it, Stevie B said that under NO CIRCUMSTANCES WOULD THE RAVENS DRAFT THAT KIND OF PLAYER, PERIOD!

[rossihunter2]

2 hours ago, steelcityraven said:

Westbrook is the most under rated WR in the draft this year and one of the most under rated players overall....Look at his production and his play making ability / not his 40 time and combine numbers. He could come here and start as our slot WR right now. TBH the thought of Westbrook working the slot with Perriman and Wallace taking the top off is a little exciting. Just curious why you are so sure that the Ravens will not draft him? (I personally think Westbrook reminds me a lot of SSS when he came out of Utah)!

Pocic can play both C and G and most analysts have him rated as one of the top C in the draft and some even call him the top. Not sure they are thinking he is too tall . He seems to be exactly the type of guy that Greg Roman likes.... just curious why you don't like him?

Coley can be a starting returner right now.... when you pick a WR in the 5th round of the draft... you are not expecting them to come in and start and he wouldn't (probably as a WR) but he has potential to develop into that. He is a very raw but explosive athlete and has good speed. He can be our starter in the return game now (something we have been missing for some time... so a dangerous starter in the return game with potential to become a productive slot WR in the NFL in the 5th round .... I wouldn't call that a reach but I am curious why you would.

Myers is compared by CBS Sports to Rick Wagner and Kiper compared him to Villeneuva (sp) of the Steelers.... Both starters and Wagner just became one of the highest paid RT in the NFL. The knock on Myers is that he is slow. The Ravens would probably be looking at moving him inside and ALewis outside. Which would negate the biggest knock against him. He is described as a powerful grinder, who has a mean streak in the run game. Prisco, Kiper, CBS sports and more project him as a possible starter in the NFL...

I wouldn't call that a reach in the 6th round? Just curious why you do? Remember that this is the 6th round... most 6th rounders don't even make the team.

What is it about these guys that make them a reach that late in the draft?

Westbrook isn't underrated he is ignored - he's not on our board because of his multiple DV issues in much the same way that devonte fields and Joe Mixon are definitely not on our board either

pocic has and will have problems with leverage at the next level due to his height - and while some of the media have him as the top center in the draft, they also have a late 2nd/3rd round grade on him - he's a guy who could have a very steep learning curve - I wouldn't hate the pick completely but I think there'll be better value at other positions when he's on the board

i have 7th round/Udfa grades on both coley and Myers with much better developmental options available in the 5th for sure and maybe the 6th as well - someone like switzer or kd canon or darboh or Etta-tawo or Scott or Reynolds could be around in the 5th and Myers to me looks like a guy who will be at best a swing tackle but likely falls out of the league - ironically I disagree that he's slow... for me the best thing about him is his quickness albeit he has unspectacular footwork, relies too often on finesse rather than punching with his good reach and never seems to complete a power block in the run game - he has uneven temperament and a proven inability to maintain consistency - he's ok in the run game but was pretty poor in pass protection except against the bull rush - he had one really good game that i watched against San Diego state so I guess he has some upside to him but he looks to me like a guy more likely to go undrafted and bounce out of the league than someone who makes themselves a career - he looks a much better prospect in a zone scheme which we seem to be moving away from as well (just as the cherry on top) - and the reason he is a reach is because in a deep class like this there are still impact players available in the 6th round or even the 7th

[ellicottraven]

7 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

1. For the cap space.

2. Because he's not a very good Center and I don't think we had any intention of him being on the team in 2017 regardless. We cut and trade players all the time with no obvious replacement available. That's what FA and the draft is for.

I doubt Mangold really has much leg to stand on in terms of contract negotiations. This isn't the first wave of FA where he has multiple suitors. He maybe only has a couple teams even interested in him at this point. An obvious declining, older player coming off significant injury is not going to be somebody where negotiations are going to be substantial.

Agreed but that shouldn't stop Mangold and his agent from trying to get as much money as they can when they have a team interested. That is exactly what's going on imo. They're asking for more than the Ravens are willing to give up and now they've been asked to test the market and come back if our terms are acceptable to them or bring back a better offer so we'll see if we can match it without any promises.

[BiggMack91]

  8 hours ago, BiggMack91 said:

anyone other than me like Greg Pyke coming out of GEORGIA
PLAYER OVERVIEW

Certainly a great deal of the reason for Georgia's success running the football in recent years has been the talent lining up in the backfield. A talented offensive line, however, has also played an important role with Pyke - a former highly regarded lacrosse recruit - emerging as a verifiable star at right guard in 2014.
Pyke entered the '14 season with zero career starts and only two game appearances after redshirting in 2012. He won the starting right guard role after an impressive spring, which concluded with him being recognized by the team as the "Most Improved Offensive Player" by the coaching staff. Pyke started all 13 games for the Bulldogs in 2014, earning Second Team All-SEC honors and once again being highlighted by Richt and his staff as the team's Most Improved player.

STRENGTHS / WEAKNESSES

STRENGTHS: Pyke possesses great core strength and leg drive which allows him to push defensive tackles off the ball on his way toward the second level.
Understands angles, consistently placing himself between the defender and his running back. Creative when blocking on the move, striking defenders with force when he resorting to cut blocks when necessary. Doesn't waste time worrying about defenders who may have slipped past, instead re-focusing on other targets, often blocking multiple opponents on the same play.

In pass protection, Pyke shows good initial quickness, as well as lateral agility to mirror defenders. He attacks defenders with a strong initial punch and anchors well due to proper knee bend and his core strength. Alert to stunts and surprise blitzes.

WEAKNESSES: Lacks ideal agility to track down linebackers.

He may not even get drafted. I could definitely see him as a UDFA. Do you know this guy or something?

kind of hes from baltimore and ive seen him play he looks like a bigger yanda but hes still a little ruff around the edges but i definitely think hes a plug and play guy

[steelcityraven]

  21 hours ago, steelcityraven said:

Westbrook is the most under rated WR in the draft this year and one of the most under rated players overall....Look at his production and his play making ability / not his 40 time and combine numbers. He could come here and start as our slot WR right now. TBH the thought of Westbrook working the slot with Perriman and Wallace taking the top off is a little exciting. Just curious why you are so sure that the Ravens will not draft him? (I personally think Westbrook reminds me a lot of SSS when he came out of Utah)!

Pocic can play both C and G and most analysts have him rated as one of the top C in the draft and some even call him the top. Not sure they are thinking he is too tall . He seems to be exactly the type of guy that Greg Roman likes.... just curious why you don't like him?

Coley can be a starting returner right now.... when you pick a WR in the 5th round of the draft... you are not expecting them to come in and start and he wouldn't (probably as a WR) but he has potential to develop into that. He is a very raw but explosive athlete and has good speed. He can be our starter in the return game now (something we have been missing for some time... so a dangerous starter in the return game with potential to become a productive slot WR in the NFL in the 5th round .... I wouldn't call that a reach but I am curious why you would.

Myers is compared by CBS Sports to Rick Wagner and Kiper compared him to Villeneuva (sp) of the Steelers.... Both starters and Wagner just became one of the highest paid RT in the NFL. The knock on Myers is that he is slow. The Ravens would probably be looking at moving him inside and ALewis outside. Which would negate the biggest knock against him. He is described as a powerful grinder, who has a mean streak in the run game. Prisco, Kiper, CBS sports and more project him as a possible starter in the NFL...

I wouldn't call that a reach in the 6th round? Just curious why you do? Remember that this is the 6th round... most 6th rounders don't even make the team.

What is it about these guys that make them a reach that late in the draft?

Westbrook isn't underrated he is ignored - he's not on our board because of his multiple DV issues in much the same way that devonte fields and Joe Mixon are definitely not on our board either

pocic has and will have problems with leverage at the next level due to his height - and while some of the media have him as the top center in the draft, they also have a late 2nd/3rd round grade on him - he's a guy who could have a very steep learning curve - I wouldn't hate the pick completely but I think there'll be better value at other positions when he's on the board

i have 7th round/Udfa grades on both coley and Myers with much better developmental options available in the 5th for sure and maybe the 6th as well - someone like switzer or kd canon or darboh or Etta-tawo or Scott or Reynolds could be around in the 5th and Myers to me looks like a guy who will be at best a swing tackle but likely falls out of the league - ironically I disagree that he's slow... for me the best thing about him is his quickness albeit he has unspectacular footwork, relies too often on finesse rather than punching with his good reach and never seems to complete a power block in the run game - he has uneven temperament and a proven inability to maintain consistency - he's ok in the run game but was pretty poor in pass protection except against the bull rush - he had one really good game that i watched against San Diego state so I guess he has some upside to him but he looks to me like a guy more likely to go undrafted and bounce out of the league than someone who makes themselves a career - he looks a much better prospect in a zone scheme which we seem to be moving away from as well (just as the cherry on top) - and the reason he is a reach is because in a deep class like this there are still impact players available in the 6th round or even the 7th

Hmmm.... okay thanks for sharing your thoughts.... I have watched Myers play in several games this season and he is a force. I felt that he was on the slow side and a move inside would be realistic at the next level but in my opinion... I think he has the talent to play at the next level. I did see some nastiness and he seems to be a good fit in the Greg Roman system. Myers do wall people off more then drive them off but I felt that has everything to do with the NIU system. Watch him in goal line and short yardage situations. This is where I was most impressed with him.

I read Prisco's report on him and Kipers and felt they were seeing some of the same things that I did.... So I was curious what you were seeing. I will agree to disagree with you on Myers but thanks for your response.

This is CBSsports profile on Levon Myers

Player Overview

Myers possesses the frame, power and nastiness that NFL teams are looking for. He is not particularly light on his feet, however, which could mean that another move - this time inside - is in his future.

STRENGTHS: Myers is a hulking presence with broad shoulders, long arms and a thick middle, including wide hips and a big bubble which helps him physically maul opponents. He shows at least adequate initial quickness at the snap, easing out of his stance with short, power steps and with his knees bent and butt down, leaving him balanced and ready to anchor against bull rushers. He is patient in pass protection, forcing opponents to complete a wide arc around him and is typically able to control opponents once he latches on, showing impressive upper body strength and good hand placement. He keeps defenders on their toes by occasionally mixing in a cut block, showing surprising quickness and body control to sweep the legs out from opponents legally and effectively. Myers shows some nastiness in his play, looking to knock defenders to the ground when he senses them off-balance, including those consumed with battling the left guard. With just two starting seasons under his belt, Myers potentially has untapped potential still to develop.

WEAKNESSES: Frankly, Myers is powerful but slow. He does not possess the footwork required to remain at left tackle in the NFL. He shows only average initial quickness in pass protection. He lumbers off the ball when asked to block on the move, struggling to get to and re-direct at the second level.

IN OUR VIEW: Myers possesses the powerful frame and mindset to warrant a mid to late round consideration but his future in the NFL may lie inside at guard rather than tackle, a position he did not play at NIU.

COMPARES TO: Rick Wagner, Baltimore Ravens: Though Myers opted to join the Huskies rather than the Badgers, scouts could be reminded of Wagner, a former UW tackle. Myers is projected to slide to guard, where his size and strength are complemented (and his average agility is mitigated).

[steelcityraven]

  21 hours ago, steelcityraven said:

  On ‎4‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 1:14 PM, rossihunter2 said:

  On ‎4‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 0:30 PM, steelcityraven said:

or
Round 1. Takkarist McKinley-OLB-UCLA
Round 2. TreDavious White- CB-LSU
Round 3. Sid Jones-CB- Wash
Round 3. Ethan Pocic-C-LSU
Round 4. De De Westbrook- WR-Okla
Round 5. Stacy Coley- WR- Miami
Round 6. Levon Myers- G/T- Northern Illinois

We won't draft Dede Westbrook anywhere in the draft, Stacy Conley is a reach as is levon Myers - I also don't personally like pocic that much - he just seems too tall to be an effective center in the NFL 

Westbrook is the most under rated WR in the draft this year and one of the most under rated players overall....Look at his production and his play making ability / not his 40 time and combine numbers. He could come here and start as our slot WR right now. TBH the thought of Westbrook working the slot with Perriman and Wallace taking the top off is a little exciting. Just curious why you are so sure that the Ravens will not draft him? (I personally think Westbrook reminds me a lot of SSS when he came out of Utah)!

Pocic can play both C and G and most analysts have him rated as one of the top C in the draft and some even call him the top. Not sure they are thinking he is too tall . He seems to be exactly the type of guy that Greg Roman likes.... just curious why you don't like him?

Coley can be a starting returner right now.... when you pick a WR in the 5th round of the draft... you are not expecting them to come in and start and he wouldn't (probably as a WR) but he has potential to develop into that. He is a very raw but explosive athlete and has good speed. He can be our starter in the return game now (something we have been missing for some time... so a dangerous starter in the return game with potential to become a productive slot WR in the NFL in the 5th round .... I wouldn't call that a reach but I am curious why you would.

Myers is compared by CBS Sports to Rick Wagner and Kiper compared him to Villeneuva (sp) of the Steelers.... Both starters and Wagner just became one of the highest paid RT in the NFL. The knock on Myers is that he is slow. The Ravens would probably be looking at moving him inside and ALewis outside. Which would negate the biggest knock against him. He is described as a powerful grinder, who has a mean streak in the run game. Prisco, Kiper, CBS sports and more project him as a possible starter in the NFL...

I wouldn't call that a reach in the 6th round? Just curious why you do? Remember that this is the 6th round... most 6th rounders don't even make the team.

What is it about these guys that make them a reach that late in the draft?

Westbrook has Domestic Violence issues. In case you missed it, Stevie B said that under NO CIRCUMSTANCES WOULD THE RAVENS DRAFT THAT KIND OF PLAYER, PERIOD!

Correct me if I am wrong but I was under the impression that Westbrooks circumstances were very different then Mixons. Westbrooks charges were dropped on the first incident of throwing his BM to the ground.

The 2nd incident of him biting her was also dropped and she admitted to lying about that.

I may be wrong but pretty sure that all of the charges against Westbrook for DV were dropped and later re-canted.

Whereas Mixon is more of a Ray Rice situation.

[steelcityraven]

  21 hours ago, steelcityraven said:

Westbrook is the most under rated WR in the draft this year and one of the most under rated players overall....Look at his production and his play making ability / not his 40 time and combine numbers. He could come here and start as our slot WR right now. TBH the thought of Westbrook working the slot with Perriman and Wallace taking the top off is a little exciting. Just curious why you are so sure that the Ravens will not draft him? (I personally think Westbrook reminds me a lot of SSS when he came out of Utah)!

Pocic can play both C and G and most analysts have him rated as one of the top C in the draft and some even call him the top. Not sure they are thinking he is too tall . He seems to be exactly the type of guy that Greg Roman likes.... just curious why you don't like him?

Coley can be a starting returner right now.... when you pick a WR in the 5th round of the draft... you are not expecting them to come in and start and he wouldn't (probably as a WR) but he has potential to develop into that. He is a very raw but explosive athlete and has good speed. He can be our starter in the return game now (something we have been missing for some time... so a dangerous starter in the return game with potential to become a productive slot WR in the NFL in the 5th round .... I wouldn't call that a reach but I am curious why you would.

Myers is compared by CBS Sports to Rick Wagner and Kiper compared him to Villeneuva (sp) of the Steelers.... Both starters and Wagner just became one of the highest paid RT in the NFL. The knock on Myers is that he is slow. The Ravens would probably be looking at moving him inside and ALewis outside. Which would negate the biggest knock against him. He is described as a powerful grinder, who has a mean streak in the run game. Prisco, Kiper, CBS sports and more project him as a possible starter in the NFL...

I wouldn't call that a reach in the 6th round? Just curious why you do? Remember that this is the 6th round... most 6th rounders don't even make the team.

What is it about these guys that make them a reach that late in the draft?

Westbrook isn't underrated he is ignored - he's not on our board because of his multiple DV issues in much the same way that devonte fields and Joe Mixon are definitely not on our board either

pocic has and will have problems with leverage at the next level due to his height - and while some of the media have him as the top center in the draft, they also have a late 2nd/3rd round grade on him - he's a guy who could have a very steep learning curve - I wouldn't hate the pick completely but I think there'll be better value at other positions when he's on the board

i have 7th round/Udfa grades on both coley and Myers with much better developmental options available in the 5th for sure and maybe the 6th as well - someone like switzer or kd canon or darboh or Etta-tawo or Scott or Reynolds could be around in the 5th and Myers to me looks like a guy who will be at best a swing tackle but likely falls out of the league - ironically I disagree that he's slow... for me the best thing about him is his quickness albeit he has unspectacular footwork, relies too often on finesse rather than punching with his good reach and never seems to complete a power block in the run game - he has uneven temperament and a proven inability to maintain consistency - he's ok in the run game but was pretty poor in pass protection except against the bull rush - he had one really good game that i watched against San Diego state so I guess he has some upside to him but he looks to me like a guy more likely to go undrafted and bounce out of the league than someone who makes themselves a career - he looks a much better prospect in a zone scheme which we seem to be moving away from as well (just as the cherry on top) - and the reason he is a reach is because in a deep class like this there are still impact players available in the 6th round or even the 7th

While I agree with you on some of your analysis on Pocic - I think what makes him so intriguing is his athleticism and versatility. Pocic player both Ts, both G positions and C at LSU and played it well.

I felt the biggest downfall in Pocics game was less to do with his height and more to do to the fact that he needs to build his body up. Pocic is not strong enough yet but he has good athleticism and very good flexibility for a big guy. He is smooth in his bends and transition blocks well.

He lacks the ideal power at this point and gets pushed back too much... but that is a strength issue that many Centers find problematic coming out of college and it takes a few years to build that body up....

I personally really like his versatility and athleticism and think Pocic can flourish under a coach like Greg Roman.

I think Elflien out of Ohio State has some attributes that make him a more attractive prospect right now but I don't think he has the versatility that Pocic offers and most reports suggest that Pocic has a big advantage in the intelligence area?

[TheConquerorWorm]

  On 4/6/2017 at 7:27 PM, rossihunter2 said:

  On 4/6/2017 at 4:33 PM, steelcityraven said:

Westbrook is the most under rated WR in the draft this year and one of the most under rated players overall....Look at his production and his play making ability / not his 40 time and combine numbers. He could come here and start as our slot WR right now. TBH the thought of Westbrook working the slot with Perriman and Wallace taking the top off is a little exciting. Just curious why you are so sure that the Ravens will not draft him? (I personally think Westbrook reminds me a lot of SSS when he came out of Utah)!

Pocic can play both C and G and most analysts have him rated as one of the top C in the draft and some even call him the top. Not sure they are thinking he is too tall . He seems to be exactly the type of guy that Greg Roman likes.... just curious why you don't like him?

Coley can be a starting returner right now.... when you pick a WR in the 5th round of the draft... you are not expecting them to come in and start and he wouldn't (probably as a WR) but he has potential to develop into that. He is a very raw but explosive athlete and has good speed. He can be our starter in the return game now (something we have been missing for some time... so a dangerous starter in the return game with potential to become a productive slot WR in the NFL in the 5th round .... I wouldn't call that a reach but I am curious why you would.

Myers is compared by CBS Sports to Rick Wagner and Kiper compared him to Villeneuva (sp) of the Steelers.... Both starters and Wagner just became one of the highest paid RT in the NFL. The knock on Myers is that he is slow. The Ravens would probably be looking at moving him inside and ALewis outside. Which would negate the biggest knock against him. He is described as a powerful grinder, who has a mean streak in the run game. Prisco, Kiper, CBS sports and more project him as a possible starter in the NFL...

I wouldn't call that a reach in the 6th round? Just curious why you do? Remember that this is the 6th round... most 6th rounders don't even make the team.

What is it about these guys that make them a reach that late in the draft?

Westbrook isn't underrated he is ignored - he's not on our board because of his multiple DV issues in much the same way that devonte fields and Joe Mixon are definitely not on our board either

pocic has and will have problems with leverage at the next level due to his height - and while some of the media have him as the top center in the draft, they also have a late 2nd/3rd round grade on him - he's a guy who could have a very steep learning curve - I wouldn't hate the pick completely but I think there'll be better value at other positions when he's on the board

i have 7th round/Udfa grades on both coley and Myers with much better developmental options available in the 5th for sure and maybe the 6th as well - someone like switzer or kd canon or darboh or Etta-tawo or Scott or Reynolds could be around in the 5th and Myers to me looks like a guy who will be at best a swing tackle but likely falls out of the league - ironically I disagree that he's slow... for me the best thing about him is his quickness albeit he has unspectacular footwork, relies too often on finesse rather than punching with his good reach and never seems to complete a power block in the run game - he has uneven temperament and a proven inability to maintain consistency - he's ok in the run game but was pretty poor in pass protection except against the bull rush - he had one really good game that i watched against San Diego state so I guess he has some upside to him but he looks to me like a guy more likely to go undrafted and bounce out of the league than someone who makes themselves a career - he looks a much better prospect in a zone scheme which we seem to be moving away from as well (just as the cherry on top) - and the reason he is a reach is because in a deep class like this there are still impact players available in the 6th round or even the 7th

Hmmm.... okay thanks for sharing your thoughts.... I have watched Myers play in several games this season and he is a force. I felt that he was on the slow side and a move inside would be realistic at the next level but in my opinion... I think he has the talent to play at the next level. I did see some nastiness and he seems to be a good fit in the Greg Roman system. Myers do wall people off more then drive them off but I felt that has everything to do with the NIU system. Watch him in goal line and short yardage situations. This is where I was most impressed with him.

I read Prisco's report on him and Kipers and felt they were seeing some of the same things that I did.... So I was curious what you were seeing. I will agree to disagree with you on Myers but thanks for your response.

This is CBSsports profile on Levon Myers

Player Overview

Myers possesses the frame, power and nastiness that NFL teams are looking for. He is not particularly light on his feet, however, which could mean that another move - this time inside - is in his future.

STRENGTHS: Myers is a hulking presence with broad shoulders, long arms and a thick middle, including wide hips and a big bubble which helps him physically maul opponents. He shows at least adequate initial quickness at the snap, easing out of his stance with short, power steps and with his knees bent and butt down, leaving him balanced and ready to anchor against bull rushers. He is patient in pass protection, forcing opponents to complete a wide arc around him and is typically able to control opponents once he latches on, showing impressive upper body strength and good hand placement. He keeps defenders on their toes by occasionally mixing in a cut block, showing surprising quickness and body control to sweep the legs out from opponents legally and effectively. Myers shows some nastiness in his play, looking to knock defenders to the ground when he senses them off-balance, including those consumed with battling the left guard. With just two starting seasons under his belt, Myers potentially has untapped potential still to develop.

WEAKNESSES: Frankly, Myers is powerful but slow. He does not possess the footwork required to remain at left tackle in the NFL. He shows only average initial quickness in pass protection. He lumbers off the ball when asked to block on the move, struggling to get to and re-direct at the second level.

IN OUR VIEW: Myers possesses the powerful frame and mindset to warrant a mid to late round consideration but his future in the NFL may lie inside at guard rather than tackle, a position he did not play at NIU.

COMPARES TO: Rick Wagner, Baltimore Ravens: Though Myers opted to join the Huskies rather than the Badgers, scouts could be reminded of Wagner, a former UW tackle. Myers is projected to slide to guard, where his size and strength are complemented (and his average agility is mitigated).

I went back and watched some coaches film on him and I have to agree with steelcity. He does well run blocking and getting to the next level. Has a decent enough kick slide and has the mean/nasty mentality you want. But has zero punch (By comparison, Stanley has one of the best punches I've seen in a very long time). Foot work is very sloppy and doesn't use leverage like he should. Joey Bosa absolutely destroyed him - there were times when he didn't even get his hands on Bosa until he was a step past him. I would say his best fit is a Guard with his ceiling as Vlad Ducasse.

I don't know who is doing player comparisons for CBSsports, but the only comparison between him and Wagner is Weight. Half the time, I think these sites only look at height & weight to make their comparison.

[TheConquerorWorm]

2007 draft - just goes to show you how much of a gamble the NFL draft is. Weddle was the 37th pick. In those top players, there were 10 studs drafted, 7 solid starters and 20 BUSTS.