[News] Late For Work 4/6: Nick Mangold Leaves Without Contract, But Interest Remains On Both Sides

[BR News]

No major revelations came from the Ravens' pre-draft press conference, and there may have been a few smokescreens. Mel Kiper and Todd McShay's two-round mock draft. Lessons learned from LSU's pro day.

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[fusuymada]

My thought on anything free agent or draft related is that you absolutely ignore anything said coming from Winning Drive. Fans want to know the plan but so does every other team and putting out "information" for the fans is basically just bs. So, go with your gut feeling. To me, there is just too much WR talk meaning that we probably will be disappointed again and we will end up picking up someone's leftovers after they cut down to 53. After all, look how well TJ Whosyourmama and Lee Evans turned out so that has to be a great tactic. They both only cost us a shot at a super bowl. However, in all fairness, I was on board with both signings when they happened and if they sign Boldin at the last minute, I will probably be on board with that too. I know, In Oz I trust, too bad he isn't perfect.

[rmcjacket23]

My thought on anything free agent or draft related is that you absolutely ignore anything said coming from Winning Drive. Fans want to know the plan but so does every other team and putting out "information" for the fans is basically just bs. So, go with your gut feeling. To me, there is just too much WR talk meaning that we probably will be disappointed again and we will end up picking up someone's leftovers after they cut down to 53. After all, look how well TJ Whosyourmama and Lee Evans turned out so that has to be a great tactic. They both only cost us a shot at a super bowl. However, in all fairness, I was on board with both signings when they happened and if they sign Boldin at the last minute, I will probably be on board with that too. I know, In Oz I trust, too bad he isn't perfect.

And that would be a mistake on your part. If you listen to what the FO says at the post-season pressers and what they tell you about what they're interested in for the draft, they pretty much do exactly what they say they're going to do.

[sizzlingdoom]

pro bowl 3 out of the last 4 years.
Makes us better for a year or two plus Way more flexibility in the draft. And he can teach and play next to Lewis.
WR and Pass Rush and T in any order with our first 3 picks in that case....................as long as we draft Ju Ju

[ellicottraven]

I believe the reason Mangold left without a contract simply has to do with money. I believe he's healthy to play which is a great thing. He will become the second coming of Matt Birk and protect the pocket space behind center for Joe to operate in. Will be a great signing if it happens.

[merryjman]

I hope we sign Mangold, even if he's more expensive than hoped for. Gino Gradkowski worked hard, but was just too undersized against the monster interior linemen in the NFL. For that reason I don't think Urschel would flourish there, despite the allure of having a smart dude (like Birk) in the middle.

I have been saying over and over that our number one need is a pass rusher. Even the best WR in the draft would not be a good fit here, because Flacco is not the type of QB that can really bring the best out of him. I'm not a Flacco hater, but I think it's important to be realistic about him. His long ball is loooong but not accurate, his short throws move a million mph, and he is often too hasty with his reads and progressions, so he tends to dump off to tight ends and running backs too often. That's why the ones who have done best with him are the veteran possession receivers/TEs or the raw speedsters, running simple schemes designed by a coordinator who "gets" Flacco.

(And I get that maybe this instead stems from receivers who can't get open. I would love to be proved wrong - for us to get a top receiver and see him get 1300 yds with Joe)

But with a good pass rush, our defense can hold opposing teams to scores in the teens or low twenties, and that is a low enough score that Flacco can win with.

 

[merryjman]

11 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

And that would be a mistake on your part. If you listen to what the FO says at the post-season pressers and what they tell you about what they're interested in for the draft, they pretty much do exactly what they say they're going to do.

And that's because everyone can usually see exactly what the team needs, so there's no sense in being coy and pretending otherwise. It's obvious we need corners, linebackers, running backs, receivers and offensive linemen, so that's exactly who the FO says they want.

What makes all the specific names unpredictable is all the head games that the GMs play with each other on draft day. Consider the Ramsey situation, where Dallas was worried that Baltimore wanted Zeke, so wouldn't trade back. It was true that RB was a need, and so the Cowboys couldn't be certain that Ozzie would pass on Zeke, since we could have used him to great effect. And so then, the Ravens couldn't address one of their most glaring needs because Ramsey got taken 5th. 

[BiggMack91]

i honestly dont think we are going to sign mangold mainly because he left without a contract and we all know if ozzie wants some one he dont let them leave without signing them imo he didnt show the ability and must have not impressed our guys so we let him leave

[Black&purple#55]

If we could land Richard Sherman, man our secondary will be fun to watch!!!

[creigle]

The Mangold story reminds me of the Jake Long situation last year. Maybe Baltimore wanted Mangold to sign a contract that had an injury waiver in it.

[rmcjacket23]

25 minutes ago, merryjman said:

And that's because everyone can usually see exactly what the team needs, so there's no sense in being coy and pretending otherwise. It's obvious we need corners, linebackers, running backs, receivers and offensive linemen, so that's exactly who the FO says they want.

What makes all the specific names unpredictable is all the head games that the GMs play with each other on draft day. Consider the Ramsey situation, where Dallas was worried that Baltimore wanted Zeke, so wouldn't trade back. It was true that RB was a need, and so the Cowboys couldn't be certain that Ozzie would pass on Zeke, since we could have used him to great effect. And so then, the Ravens couldn't address one of their most glaring needs because Ramsey got taken 5th. 

Sure, nobody is going to tell you specific names. You don't see any team in the league come out in February and say "we're targeting this player in March in FA". They all say "we're targeting this type of player". 

But pretty much everytime the team tells you there's a position or two or even more that they would like to address and upgrade, they at least attempt to do that with some sort of signing or draft pick.

I think the perception from some fans is that the FO tells them "we need corners" and that means we're going to go sign 2 FA corners and use our first round pick on a corner. In reality, we may sign one veteran corner and then draft somebody in the 3rd or 4th round or even later. It seems to be that too many fans have this perception that we identify needs publicly and then don't address them (which isn't true), or we address a need publicly and then its considered a failure if we don't spend top dollar or a first round pick on said position.

 

Edited April 6 by rmcjacket23

[stuckonaboat13]

It would be a beautiful thing to see Mike Williams in purple/black. Unfortunately I think he goes in the 6-10 range. I'm really not in love with Ross. I see Tavon Austin when I watch his highlights. Davis seems extremely well rounded and the type of receiver Flacco really needs.

[stuckonaboat13]

I have faith in Urschel. Call me crazy but I think he can handle it. The guy is clearly smart enough to understand the mental demands of center. Physically he is slightly undersized at 300lbs but intelligence and quickness can counter that.

[bioLarzen]

20 minutes ago, stuckonaboat13 said:

I have faith in Urschel. Call me crazy but I think he can handle it. The guy is clearly smart enough to understand the mental demands of center. Physically he is slightly undersized at 300lbs but intelligence and quickness can counter that.

And what exactly fuels this faith of yours? I don't think it was his performance - because it has so far been mediocre at best... Also, the fact that a rookie and an eternal journeyman (Ducasse) easily overtook him on the depth chart doesn't seem to indicate he's starting caliber...

Edited April 6 by bioLarzen

[bioLarzen]

It would be a beautiful thing to see Mike Williams in purple/black. Unfortunately I think he goes in the 6-10 range. I'm really not in love with Ross. I see Tavon Austin when I watch his highlights. Davis seems extremely well rounded and the type of receiver Flacco really needs.

Yep, it would - but you're probably right about him being long gone at #16...

[bioLarzen]

If we could land Richard Sherman, man our secondary will be fun to watch!!!

Our cap situation, on the other hand, would be a nightmare to watch...

[bioLarzen]

i honestly dont think we are going to sign mangold mainly because he left without a contract and we all know if ozzie wants some one he dont let them leave without signing them imo he didnt show the ability and must have not impressed our guys so we let him leave

That's usually the case with guys who have a market - Mangold apparently doesn't really have one at this point. It's far less risky to let him walk than it would have been to let guys like Steve Smith or Wallcae walk out of the Catlse without a deal, knowing thjey have other serious offers.
That said, it's hard to say anything wise about the Mangold situation with so little info. Maybe we'll be wiser as time goes on.

[rmcjacket23]

  39 minutes ago, Black&purple#55 said:

If we could land Richard Sherman, man our secondary will be fun to watch!!!

Our cap situation, on the other hand, would be a nightmare to watch...

Really wouldn't be possible most likely. Would be taking on an $11M+ contract this year. We'd have to cut a few players just to fit him under our cap for now, and then cut a few more in order to sign our draft picks.

Not happening, obviously.

[bioLarzen]

My thought on anything free agent or draft related is that you absolutely ignore anything said coming from Winning Drive. Fans want to know the plan but so does every other team and putting out "information" for the fans is basically just bs. So, go with your gut feeling. To me, there is just too much WR talk meaning that we probably will be disappointed again and we will end up picking up someone's leftovers after they cut down to 53. After all, look how well TJ Whosyourmama and Lee Evans turned out so that has to be a great tactic. They both only cost us a shot at a super bowl. However, in all fairness, I was on board with both signings when they happened and if they sign Boldin at the last minute, I will probably be on board with that too. I know, In Oz I trust, too bad he isn't perfect.

In fact, it seems like Groundhog Day every single time the draft is nearing... Every single time people seem to go through the same cycle, trying to fish out relevant info from what these guys say, tghen realize there is no such info there.... Every single time. YXear after year... As if they haven't gone through the same thing multiple times...

And of course there won't be any real specifics in what they say... these are company secrets, folks. Wha company execs would give away company secrets?

[ByTheBay]

The FO said they want to get bigger on Oline so they trade 6'-4" 308lb Zuttah. I don't see the value in replacing him with 6'-3" 300lb Urschel or 6'-4" 310lb Jensen. Not only are the about the same size, they are less experienced than Zuttah. They will definitely sign a large FA or draft one. Otherwise the Zuttah trade looks foolish.  

[ByTheBay]

I would feel much more comfortable going into the draft if we resign Webb and Doom. Quality reliable depth is always a good thing. 

[Flamengo1265]

I kind of like McKinley, but that shoulder problem that he has is pretty serious. I hate the idea of using a 1st round pick on a guy coming off of an injury requiring surgery and 5 months of rehab.

[BiggMack91]

I hope we sign Mangold, even if he's more expensive than hoped for. Gino Gradkowski worked hard, but was just too undersized against the monster interior linemen in the NFL. For that reason I don't think Urschel would flourish there, despite the allure of having a smart dude (like Birk) in the middle.

I have been saying over and over that our number one need is a pass rusher. Even the best WR in the draft would not be a good fit here, because Flacco is not the type of QB that can really bring the best out of him. I'm not a Flacco hater, but I think it's important to be realistic about him. His long ball is loooong but not accurate, his short throws move a million mph, and he is often too hasty with his reads and progressions, so he tends to dump off to tight ends and running backs too often. That's why the ones who have done best with him are the veteran possession receivers/TEs or the raw speedsters, running simple schemes designed by a coordinator who "gets" Flacco.

(And I get that maybe this instead stems from receivers who can't get open. I would love to be proved wrong - for us to get a top receiver and see him get 1300 yds with Joe)

But with a good pass rush, our defense can hold opposing teams to scores in the teens or low twenties, and that is a low enough score that Flacco can win with.

 

its all about the system gino went to the broncos and won a ring an did pretty good

[rmcjacket23]

  2 hours ago, fusuymada said:

My thought on anything free agent or draft related is that you absolutely ignore anything said coming from Winning Drive. Fans want to know the plan but so does every other team and putting out "information" for the fans is basically just bs. So, go with your gut feeling. To me, there is just too much WR talk meaning that we probably will be disappointed again and we will end up picking up someone's leftovers after they cut down to 53. After all, look how well TJ Whosyourmama and Lee Evans turned out so that has to be a great tactic. They both only cost us a shot at a super bowl. However, in all fairness, I was on board with both signings when they happened and if they sign Boldin at the last minute, I will probably be on board with that too. I know, In Oz I trust, too bad he isn't perfect.

In fact, it seems like Groundhog Day every single time the draft is nearing... Every single time people seem to go through the same cycle, trying to fish out relevant info from what these guys say, tghen realize there is no such info there.... Every single time. YXear after year... As if they haven't gone through the same thing multiple times...

And of course there won't be any real specifics in what they say... these are company secrets, folks. Wha company execs would give away company secrets?

Again, its a bit of both. If fans are expecting teams to actually declare which players (by name) they are interested in, you'll never get that.

But teams tell all of us what positions they will be looking to draft, and with few exceptions, they draft those positions. The Ravens are no different. The positions you and I think they will draft WILL be the positions they draft. It might not be in the round we want or the round we think, but they will do it.

[rmcjacket23]

  2 hours ago, merryjman said:

I hope we sign Mangold, even if he's more expensive than hoped for. Gino Gradkowski worked hard, but was just too undersized against the monster interior linemen in the NFL. For that reason I don't think Urschel would flourish there, despite the allure of having a smart dude (like Birk) in the middle.

I have been saying over and over that our number one need is a pass rusher. Even the best WR in the draft would not be a good fit here, because Flacco is not the type of QB that can really bring the best out of him. I'm not a Flacco hater, but I think it's important to be realistic about him. His long ball is loooong but not accurate, his short throws move a million mph, and he is often too hasty with his reads and progressions, so he tends to dump off to tight ends and running backs too often. That's why the ones who have done best with him are the veteran possession receivers/TEs or the raw speedsters, running simple schemes designed by a coordinator who "gets" Flacco.

(And I get that maybe this instead stems from receivers who can't get open. I would love to be proved wrong - for us to get a top receiver and see him get 1300 yds with Joe)

But with a good pass rush, our defense can hold opposing teams to scores in the teens or low twenties, and that is a low enough score that Flacco can win with.

 

its all about the system gino went to the broncos and won a ring an did pretty good

Umm no.

For starters, Gino never played a regular season or postseason snap for the Broncos. He was cut during final cuts the year they traded for him. He spent the 2015 regular season on the Atlanta Falcons, where he played in just 4 games.

In 2016, he signed with the Panthers as a backup interior lineman. He played 10 games before landing on IR.

He has not played well anywhere he has went, and he's on his 3rd team in about 2 years since leaving the Ravens.

[Halshayeji]

2 hours ago, ellicottraven said:

I believe the reason Mangold left without a contract simply has to do with money. I believe he's healthy to play which is a great thing. He will become the second coming of Matt Birk and protect the pocket space behind center for Joe to operate in. Will be a great signing if it happens.

I think we showed our cards waaaay to early by trading zuttah and now Mangold is calling our bluff! His agent knows that we are desperate and that never helps when negotiating for a contract.

why did we have to trade zuttah away to move up 12 picks in the 6th round?!

[steelcityraven]

I kind of like McKinley, but that shoulder problem that he has is pretty serious. I hate the idea of using a 1st round pick on a guy coming off of an injury requiring surgery and 5 months of rehab.

I like McKinley....and really do not think that shoulder will be an issue, plus he will not need to come in and be the instant starter. We have Suggs and Judon and they can hold it down and we can work McKinley in at his pace.

I also like Tim Williams -OLB -BAMMA who should be available to us in round # 2.

[steelcityraven]

Round #1 Ryan Ramczyk- T-Wisconsin
Round # 2 TIm Williams- OLB-Bamma
Round # 3 Ju Ju Smith- Schuster- WR-USC
Round # 3 Cam Sutton -CB- Tenn
Round # 4 De De Westbrook- WR- Okla
Round # 5 Ejuan Price - OLB- Pitt
or Stacy Coley- WR- Miami
Round # 6 Levon Myers-G/T- Northern Illinois

[steelcityraven]

or
Round 1. Takkarist McKinley-OLB-UCLA
Round 2. TreDavious White- CB-LSU
Round 3. Sid Jones-CB- Wash
Round 3. Ethan Pocic-C-LSU
Round 4. De De Westbrook- WR-Okla
Round 5. Stacy Coley- WR- Miami
Round 6. Levon Myers- G/T- Northern Illinois

[Halshayeji]

1 hour ago, stuckonaboat13 said:

I have faith in Urschel. Call me crazy but I think he can handle it. The guy is clearly smart enough to understand the mental demands of center. Physically he is slightly undersized at 300lbs but intelligence and quickness can counter that.

I actually like urschel a lot as a player and a guy but not as a starter. So if you insist "Crazy" lol