Jernigan traded to the Eagles

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

2 hours ago, omar586 said:

yeah, but had we got a straight pick for him like 3rd or 4th i wouldn't have cared, but it seems like we given up way too much just to move up.

Quality over quantity. 

if they see a big drop off in talent after the first 75 or so players.... do you want 2 players that are 4th round quality?

Or would you prefer 1 player that has 2nd round quality?

 

I can't say that's a fact... but I personally see a big drop off. Where after the, say, first 20 or so players that are clearly 1st rounders.... there's another 30-40 that could reasonably go from the back end of the 1st to early 3rd. 

So hypothetically we could end day 2 of the draft now feeling like we got 2-4 1st round talents and/or another 1-2 early to mid 2nd round talents....

as opposed to 2 1st rd talents, a 2nd rd talent, and 2 3rd/4th rd talents.

 

I'll take one potential serious impact player over 2 backup quality players. It's not that black and white obviously... but I do think the drop off in quality over those 25 picks is very very real and pretty steep. 

Edited April 5 by BOLDnPurPnBlacK

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Another thing for those saying they'd have been happy if we got their 4th straight up, but this swap of 3rds has no value....

 

According to the draft pick value chart, which of course is a rough guide line but does have a good basis:

 

74th pick - 220 pts

99th (104pts) + 112th (70pts, Eagles 4th) - 174 pts

 

So in actual value, swapping the 3rds gave us better draft capital than keeping our 3rd and getting their 4th. 

And by a decent margin. They'd have had to throw in another 4th to equal the swapping of picks. 

 

The 74th pick alone gives us the ammo to move up 4-5 spots in the 1st or could give us the ammo to trade back into the 1st from our 2nd rd pick... whereas it'd have taken our comp 3rd, the Eagles 4th and our own 4th to do that. 

The value is much better than what many of your are saying you'd be happier with. 

Edited April 5 by BOLDnPurPnBlacK

[RavensDieHard21]

I mean I just pray we use the pick to take a play maker or anchor on the offensive line. Last thing we need is another defensive lineman while we wait for Henry, Davis and Pierce to develop.

[jdynamite]

5 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Yea but all those examples showed up as consistent playmakers prior to their contract years besides Kruger, in either a rotational role or as starters. 

That's not true Ellerbe was in the doghouse barely getting playing time for most of 2 seasons, after having a decent rookie year while rotating with McClain and T.Gooden.  There were articles written about Ellerbe's lack of playing ahead of McClain.  

McPhee had an outstanding rookie year, had fans here calling him mcphenom, then injuries and positional moves limited his production until his contract year. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Jernigan was going to become A.Donald next season.   

Most of us including myself found frustrations in his play at times since he would occasionally have a few dominant plays in game. So his flashes of dominance had everyone waiting for him to truly breakout whereas. 

Jernigan posted at least 20 total tackles and 4 sacks all 3 years that can't be said for McPhee, Kruger, or A.Jones. 

[Jacquouille]

I guess this speaks about how high  the FA is on this year's draft class.

[PurpleHorseman]

5 hours ago, RayRayRaven said:

they got bilicheck cute id really like the mov if they went all in on comprehesuv plan.  the full monte rebuilt but as u say they paid for some free agent and resigned b willams truth is they r in limbo been so for a yrs now that shuld anser ur question to joey flex. not a fan of stanly not sayin he hasnt worked out jus sayin not a fan and he give joe that 2.5 secs which is good for the quik checkdown.  id have draffed the misissipi tackle playin for miami hell be better long term though we smeared em they got playoffs and we didn't joe didn't play anutha game like the miami game all yr

While I think Stanley is solid and pro bowl caliber. Tunsil is once every 5 year LT talent. Stanley has veteran technique. Tunsil is being coached up yet and got by on pure raw skill. Not a knock on Stanley. He was the cleaner player off the field and a great player in his own right. He is far more coached up that Tunsil. However Tunsil is a very rare gifted talent. Every scout agreed Tunsil was the most gifted player in the draft. In his drills he moved like a linebacker. He was impressive.

[kassaiscool]

Like I posted in another thread, I don't know if the organization expects to win this year (like they say are) or are building for the future. Besides our secondary getting better we have gotten worse in the o-line, now d-line, WR, and the lost of zack orr and dumervil doesn't help. Now Timmy Jerngian is gone, I'm convinced we won't win the division.  I'm not negative about the Ravens usually but I think this season we go 6-10 to 5-11 best case scenario 8-8

[Tank 92]

1 hour ago, Jacquouille said:

I guess this speaks about how high  the FA is on this year's draft class.

It's probably more a comment on how little they think of Jernigan. For whatever reason(s) his time here was done. 

[BmoreBird22]

12 hours ago, arnie_uk said:

I seem to recall it was one of those phantom irs.

He did injure his ankle, but I don't know the severity.

[rmw10]

9 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

I completely understand not liking it...

I just dont see Jernigan as the difference between us contending or not contending; so after this season there's a hole to fill anyways. 

Might as well get a jump on seeing if you have a player on the roster that can fill it, give yourself better ammo in a potentially loaded draft to get said replacement, or at least a better player that can be a key piece for the next 4+ years. 

And while Pierce may not have played the same role last year I could see him lining up as the 3T going forward. 

As I recall too, last year we started opting for playing on 1 down lineman in nickel/sub package situations with 5 stand up backers. I think either Williams or Pierce can fill that role. 

Pierce is definitely a projection but with a limited sample size he was among the most productive pass rushers on a per snap basis among DT's. I don't expect he can sustain a rate that high over 30-40 snaps/game but Jernigan never has either (never ranked top 50, even in his rookie campaign when was used sparingly a la Pierce).

 

Regardless - while I think we can contend for a playoff spot, I don't think we're a serious SB contender... and I don't see Jernigan changing that situation one way or the other, and wouldn't be here to help us contend over the next 2-5 yrs.

While Pierce, Henry or whoever we pick at 74 have a chance to be contributors of varying degrees toward that goal. 

 

I get wanting more compensation.... but I never expected much and don't think we stood to get much more if any through a comp pick.

And looking at media big boards and my own evaluations I do see a trend of a sizeable drop off in the caliber of player in the top 75 and the next 50 or so. The drop off from say 40-75 isn't much, so I see the FO placing a higher value than you typically might on moving up 25 spots, bc the difference in talent may be akin to jumping up 2 full rounds. 

Well then that goes back to my other argument where I have no idea which direction this team is heading, but that's a whole different argument in and of itself.

Again, Pierce and Jernigan are not comparable.  Pierce will play some 3T but it's not going to be as a pass rusher.  He's a competent pass rusher for a NT but he's not a guy that's going to go out there and shoot gaps like Jernigan could.  They do not function in the same role, and they do not have the same skill set.

Furthermore, it's nice to get a 25 spot bump but I don't think it benefits us all that much.  Sure, we get a better prospect than we might have otherwise but it's still the draft where anything can happen.  I'd rather us have gotten an early 4th straight up, even with a small drop in value, to have that extra pick to fill one of the holes that we've pretty much yet to fill this offseason.  I just don't see the value for us, creating another hole.

[Sami84]

as long as this high 3rd round pick isnt another

 

terrence brooks

carl davis

jay graham

casey rabach

musa smith

devard darling

david pittman

tavaras gooden

ed dickson

jah reid

bernard pierce

 

 

and instead

Marshal yanda 

laradrius webb

brandon williams

 

 

so judging by this of the 14 3rd round draft picks 1 was a stud the other two solid

the rest below average to bums

 

[Sami84]

funny random fact: we have never drafted a player from LSU ever.

[GrimCoconut]

43 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Well then that goes back to my other argument where I have no idea which direction this team is heading, but that's a whole different argument in and of itself.

Again, Pierce and Jernigan are not comparable.  Pierce will play some 3T but it's not going to be as a pass rusher.  He's a competent pass rusher for a NT but he's not a guy that's going to go out there and shoot gaps like Jernigan could.  They do not function in the same role, and they do not have the same skill set.

Furthermore, it's nice to get a 25 spot bump but I don't think it benefits us all that much.  Sure, we get a better prospect than we might have otherwise but it's still the draft where anything can happen.  I'd rather us have gotten an early 4th straight up, even with a small drop in value, to have that extra pick to fill one of the holes that we've pretty much yet to fill this offseason.  I just don't see the value for us, creating another hole.

If I recall correctly, I remember us showing a lot of 4 man front looks last year where we used Williams and Pierce as interior DL. Perhaps that's the plan and it's why we let Jernigan go due to the numbers game and his inconsistent play. 

I'm with you here in finding this move questionable but I guess we'll see if it was good or not soon enough. The team better nail this draft because the FO has made some slightly questionable decisions 

[arnie_uk]

13 hours ago, rmw10 said:

This is what gets me.  So many high picks invested.

And we will likely have another this year. I wouldn't be one bit surprised if your draft went something along the lines of:

1 pass rusher

2 corner back

3a dline

3b Mlb

 

 

[rmw10]

11 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

If I recall correctly, I remember us showing a lot of 4 man front looks last year where we used Williams and Pierce as interior DL. Perhaps that's the plan and it's why we let Jernigan go due to the numbers game and his inconsistent play. 

I'm with you here in finding this move questionable but I guess we'll see if it was good or not soon enough. The team better nail this draft because the FO has made some slightly questionable decisions 

More in running situations though.  Not in true nickel sets.  They certainly played together but I don't think you can expect Pierce to be a pass rushing presence in the mold of Jernigan.

[Sami84]

10 minutes ago, arnie_uk said:

And we will likely have another this year. I wouldn't be one bit surprised if your draft went something along the lines of:

1 pass rusher

2 corner back

3a dline

3b Mlb

 

 

 

 

I think its going to be

 

1-WR

2-Pass Rush

3a-O Line

3b-CB

[trevorsteadman]

7 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

If I recall correctly, I remember us showing a lot of 4 man front looks last year where we used Williams and Pierce as interior DL. Perhaps that's the plan and it's why we let Jernigan go due to the numbers game and his inconsistent play. 

I'm with you here in finding this move questionable but I guess we'll see if it was good or not soon enough. The team better nail this draft because the FO has made some slightly questionable decisions 

Correct the team has always used a hybrid of a 3-4 and 4-3, but Jernigan only playing about 50% of snaps the last 8 games is a sign that he was not a necessary signing. Unfortunately now the team has to fill Guy's role which I think will be the most underrated loss this offseason, and now Jernigan's. I like the trade and value, people will love to think Jernigan would be a top free agent and net a 3rd round comp in 2019, but in all honesty he has shown flashes but he is not consistent, plus hearing coaches say he was not dedicated in the gym as much as they would've liked.

I think the defense becomes more of a 4-3 team especially since the team has yet to find an athletic freak to fill Suggs' spot at OLB and I think that is the big thing. While Suggs is good he is aging and we are starting to slowly see less and less pressure each year, I think these younger guys unless the team somehow lands an crazy athletic guy, I think it is easier for these young DE's in college to stay at DE at the next level.

I think Pierce gets a lot of playing time this year. People are overreacting to Jernigan leaving. There are a lot of young high draft picks that can fill his void. This team has never had an issue replacing defensive linemen. 

[GrimCoconut]

8 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

 

I think its going to be

 

1-WR

2-Pass Rush

3a-O Line

3b-CB

I agree with this. I think you're exactly right with your guess here. I don't think a pass rusher will be there worth the first round pick and I think we'll see a WR we like a lot that's available. I don't think we necessarily need to replace Jernigan early. 

8 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

More in running situations though.  Not in true nickel sets.  They certainly played together but I don't think you can expect Pierce to be a pass rushing presence in the mold of Jernigan.

That's true but that's where you use your rotation. Jernigan is arguably a more complete player and Pierce looked good rushing the passer at times but I have no idea how he'll hold up in that role permanently. I don't know if we even intend to replace Jernigan with Pierce. Could be Kaufusi, Urban, Pierce or Henry or maybe Davis. Henry makes sense from a quick glance but he needed work so hopefully he's made big strides 

8 minutes ago, trevorsteadman said:

Correct the team has always used a hybrid of a 3-4 and 4-3, but Jernigan only playing about 50% of snaps the last 8 games is a sign that he was not a necessary signing. Unfortunately now the team has to fill Guy's role which I think will be the most underrated loss this offseason, and now Jernigan's. I like the trade and value, people will love to think Jernigan would be a top free agent and net a 3rd round comp in 2019, but in all honesty he has shown flashes but he is not consistent, plus hearing coaches say he was not dedicated in the gym as much as they would've liked.

I think the defense becomes more of a 4-3 team especially since the team has yet to find an athletic freak to fill Suggs' spot at OLB and I think that is the big thing. While Suggs is good he is aging and we are starting to slowly see less and less pressure each year, I think these younger guys unless the team somehow lands an crazy athletic guy, I think it is easier for these young DE's in college to stay at DE at the next level.

I think Pierce gets a lot of playing time this year. People are overreacting to Jernigan leaving. There are a lot of young high draft picks that can fill his void. This team has never had an issue replacing defensive linemen. 

I think we're moving to more consistent use of the 4-3 alignment and I wouldn't be surprised if we drafted a safety and used Tony Jefferson as a pseudo LB at times in a 4-3. I think it makes sense to have two run stuffing big bodies at interior DL in Williams and Pierce inside to keep Mosley and especially Correa clean from blocks to makes plays. 

[AsianRice]

If we draft well this year, this deal is a steal....

[PurpleHorseman]

2 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

I agree with this. I think you're exactly right with your guess here. I don't think a pass rusher will be there worth the first round pick and I think we'll see a WR we like a lot that's available. I don't think we necessarily need to replace Jernigan early. 

That's true but that's where you use your rotation. Jernigan is arguably a more complete player and Pierce looked good rushing the passer at times but I have no idea how he'll hold up in that role permanently. I don't know if we even intend to replace Jernigan with Pierce. Could be Kaufusi, Urban, Pierce or Henry or maybe Davis. Henry makes sense from a quick glance but he needed work so hopefully he's made big strides 

I think we're moving to more consistent use of the 4-3 alignment and I wouldn't be surprised if we drafted a safety and used Tony Jefferson as a pseudo LB at times in a 4-3. I think it makes sense to have two run stuffing big bodies at interior DL in Williams and Pierce inside to keep Mosley and especially Correa clean from blocks to makes plays. 

Makes lot of sense. I'm not yet convinced on Pierce being a standout. Jefferson could play weak side Linebacker for some plays.  He could be a fine free safety. He was used in the box in Arizona because there was a pro bowl FS there.  But he has the skills to be a really good FS with good range.

[Filmstudy]

I posted my thoughts on the trade here:

http://russellstreetreport.com/2017/04/05/filmstudy/ravens-trade-timmy-jernigan-value/

A few points:

• There is no guarantee on the comp pick round
• The comp pick would have been lost if the Ravens sign more FAs or potentially hamstrung the FA process
• The possible comp pick would have come in 2019, the trade draft capital in 2017, so there should be significant discounting applied to comp
• Jernigan played much higher leverage downs than Williams (80% of 3rd downs as opposed to 21% for Williams)
• The Ravens increase the chance to retain CJ Mosley, so it's a choice of cornerstone players

[Dr. Kelley]

Its funny because considering how much Ozzy has been missing in the draft lately, this swap has a Bolden for Micheal Huff type feel to it. 

[polynesian15]

20 hours ago, jboy19 said:

He did disappear from the stat sheet for like 4 weeks to close out the season. 

I'm interested to see if this is simply a cost move or if there's actually some faith in Pierce/Henry to handle the 3T snaps. 

Not to mention his propensity for bone headed penalties. Let's assume the FO knows more than we do, which is not really a stretch by any means.

[Dr. Kelley]

1 minute ago, Filmstudy said:

I posted my thoughts on the trade here:

http://russellstreetreport.com/2017/04/05/filmstudy/ravens-trade-timmy-jernigan-value/

A few points:

• There is no guarantee on the comp pick round
• The comp pick would have been lost if the Ravens sign more FAs or potentially hamstrung the FA process
• The possible comp pick would have come in 2019, the trade draft capital in 2017, so there should be significant discounting applied to comp
• Jernigan played much higher leverage downs than Williams (80% of 3rd downs as opposed to 21% for Williams)
• The Ravens increase the chance to retain CJ Mosley, so it's a choice of cornerstone players

Or you could post your thoughts here instead of trying to migrate people over to Russell Street Report? Talk about trying to profit from the boards shutting down

[JoeyFlex5]

20 minutes ago, Dr. Kelley said:

Or you could post your thoughts here instead of trying to migrate people over to Russell Street Report? Talk about trying to profit from the boards shutting down

He did post them here, see the little bullet points? 

[RayRayRaven]

35 minutes ago, Filmstudy said:

I posted my thoughts on the trade here:

http://russellstreetreport.com/2017/04/05/filmstudy/ravens-trade-timmy-jernigan-value/

A few points:

• There is no guarantee on the comp pick round
• The comp pick would have been lost if the Ravens sign more FAs or potentially hamstrung the FA process
• The possible comp pick would have come in 2019, the trade draft capital in 2017, so there should be significant discounting applied to comp
• Jernigan played much higher leverage downs than Williams (80% of 3rd downs as opposed to 21% for Williams)
• The Ravens increase the chance to retain CJ Mosley, so it's a choice of cornerstone players

interestin story link it drips wiff suggestin harball can be lik his little brother some so jerigan fell outta faver?  this things will happen but agree that the ravens draft better defense than offense and they can get a jerigan replacement even if they nevah replaced ngata

[jboy19]

13 minutes ago, RayRayRaven said:

they can get a jerigan replacement

If RayRayRaven has faith, we can all have faith. 

[757RavensFan]

1 hour ago, Dr. Kelley said:

Or you could post your thoughts here instead of trying to migrate people over to Russell Street Report? Talk about trying to profit from the boards shutting down

 

So when FilmStudy would routinely direct his thoughts to RSR LONG BEFORE it was announced that this forum was shutting down, where was the profit? 

I tell ya, some folks are just miserable.  

[arnie_uk]

1 hour ago, Dr. Kelley said:

Or you could post your thoughts here instead of trying to migrate people over to Russell Street Report? Talk about trying to profit from the boards shutting down

Your lucky he even posts anything here at all. He's a long time writer for rsr. 

[usmccharles]

1 hour ago, Dr. Kelley said:

Or you could post your thoughts here instead of trying to migrate people over to Russell Street Report? Talk about trying to profit from the boards shutting down

Considering your not allowed to post full articles....

@Filmstudy has been a long contributor here long before the board shutting down.  But why would that even be a bad thing when all he does his educate us fans with great break-downs and research.  Talk about over-reacting