757RavensFan

Jernigan traded to the Eagles

282 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, Sami84 said:

if we were a really good team i'd have no issue with this trade..but we aren't..

 

truth is that i don't see where the sacks are going to come from, where the O line is going to come from and the WR core.

 

if you think the draft will solve this then you're all in la la land. Might get 1-2 good players and the rest...not good enough. 

So if we were a really good team it would make sense to move a guy who could make some splash plays on a championship run for 1 year....

but a building team should keep that player only to lose him in a year??

 

Makes good sense. 

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2 hours ago, Deflated Football said:

While Jernigan was "inconsistent as hell", he was still a valuable defensive player that we traded for someone uncertain. We're a mediocre team right now before the draft, if you can even call us that. This leaves another hole for us as Timmy was a starter. Some here will defend Ozzie no matter what, even after missing the playoffs for two years in a row. 

No it's just that your own argument doesn't lead to your conclusion. 

Were a mediocre team.... so we shouldn't flip decent players that will only be here in this mediocre year for assets in the top of a draft that's loaded with prospects who can be here for the next 4 at least??

 

Yes... it requires we pick a good player. But it's a certainty that Jernigan was not going to be here beyond this year. 

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I'm currently of the mood of the father who is too angry at his kid to even talk to him.

 

Seriously, this is a horrible move.

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1 hour ago, jdynamite said:

 

We've had a much higher percentage of players perform well on their contract year of their rookie deals than those that haven't. 

Off the top of my head: Ellerbe, Kruger, McPhee, A.Jones, Osemele, T.Smith  earned themselves big contracts elsewhere. 

One of the only guys to play significant time then leave following their rookie contract and not get paid is Upshaw. 

Just because he's been traded today doesn't mean I'm changing my tune. I felt Jernigan was going to take yet another step forward this year get about 8+ sacks this year. 

Now everyone like he faded at the end of last year, the entire defense faded at the end of last year. 

Yea but all those examples showed up as consistent playmakers prior to their contract years besides Kruger, in either a rotational role or as starters. 

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Jernigan was a really good player and will most likely have the best year of his career this season. He was definitely the best interior rusher on the roster, but I can't say I'll miss the mental lapses and penalties. 

And also the redzone fumble recovery fumble. Won't miss that at all. 

But he went to a team we won't play this year, so we can still wish him the best. 

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1 hour ago, sflegend89 said:

That's true, it just seemed like a meh haul considering they are getting a guy who is a 1st round talent at 24 years old who hasn't even played his best ball yet. Just like we say with paying players "Don't pay them for what they've already done, pay them for what they will do". Same applies to trades, the compensation should reflect what they're going to do in the future. Jernigan is very good player who is only going to get better. Seems like the haul should've been better considering his age and talent.

 

Yea but all the Eagles can trade for is what he's going to do. 

And we're not talking about a rookie who flashed and hope he can put it together over the next 2-3 years. 

Its a guy going into his 4th year who has consistently flashed excellence a couple times early in seasons and then disappears over the 2nd half. 

Maybe he has an "aha" moment and puts it together. I imagine he's much more likely to do that in Philly than here... 

but on the compensation, no ones going to give up much for an inconsistent player for 1 year... and any projection or commitment beyond that if he does put it together will cost them big money as well. 

 

We were never going to get much. 

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Another thing that just came to me... a lot are commenting on Jernigan being our best interior pass rusher.

But as I recall, in obvious passing scenarios we started to play a majority with only one down lineman and 5/6 stand up linebackers... which limits the need/opportunity for someone like Jernigan. 

Plus I think I recall Pierce grading out by PFF as one of the most productive pass rushing DT's (obviously on a per snap basis) whereas Jernigan I don't think ever ranked even top 50.

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5 hours ago, 757RavensFan said:

 

I'm on the fence on this.  

Let him stay and have a good year and cash out during FA and probably get a 3rd round comp for him in 2019.

OR

trying to capitalize this year b/c they have some players they really like that will be available early in the 3rd. 

I prefer the later. I mean, I do like the idea that we are now in range to take two really good prospects in a deep defensive draft, perhaps one is Sidney Jones or another falling star, but it's just tough to to say until after the year is over.

I just have a hunch that we would be better off reaping the benefits of Jernigan working his tail off in a contract year then getting a third or fourth round comp a year later. I guess I'll hold my tongue until we see. 

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5 hours ago, 757RavensFan said:

 

I'm on the fence on this.  

Let him stay and have a good year and cash out during FA and probably get a 3rd round comp for him in 2019.

OR

trying to capitalize this year b/c they have some players they really like that will be available early in the 3rd. 

yeah, but had we got a straight pick for him like 3rd or 4th i wouldn't have cared, but it seems like we given up way too much just to move up.

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15 minutes ago, jboy19 said:

You know how many good players can get drafted in 25 picks?

25.

Unless Ozzie makes all 25 picks, then we'all trade back 24 times and then pick a special teamer or a TE 

/sarcasm

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11 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Unless Ozzie makes all 25 picks, then we'all trade back 24 times and then pick a special teamer or a TE 

/sarcasm

Prubobby gun traed dowun til he git all de piks on da sevunth rund den drft bakup pulyers so dey ken pai Flunkooo mur $$$ imo.

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For years Ravens fans been wanting Ozzie to be more aggressive or even try to trade players while their value is hot or some what  hot and when he finally does it's a problem.

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2 minutes ago, jazz1988 said:

For years Ravens fans been wanting Ozzie to be more aggressive or even try to trade players while their value is hot or some what  hot and when he finally does it's a problem.

There's two truths to Ravens fans: wanting Ozzie to be aggressive to get a playmaker, and getting strongly attached to inconsistent players while thinking they could be the next big thing. Though usually it's attached to an offensive guy that would totally be great if they just used him more.

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1 hour ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

I assume this is pointed at me... 

I just expected it to happen and see the rationale. 

I also think Jernigan is overvalued here. He hasn't put it together in 3 years with ample opportunity. Don't expect it to suddenly happen for him. 

He was clearly already losing snaps as the year went on, and if Pierce continues to play well through camp I expect that would have only continued further. 

Couple that with the talent likely available early 3rd round of this draft I won't be surprised one bit if we end up with better production on the field (Pierce vs Jernigan) and a much better prospect (74 vs 99).

Jernigan is Art Jones 2.0 except Jernigan has been less consistent. And was never going to net us the 3rd round comp some think.

He's not the difference between us making the playoffs and not.

 

And yes definitely ok to disagree. But it's also ok to agree with an unpopular move. Just a hunch that when we see who's on the board at 74 and the pick... we'll love the fact that we came away with 2 players in that short span of picks. 

Even moreso when Pierce has a breakout campaign. 

Agreed to an extent.

You can put me in the camp that thinks Timmy is overrated by some, but I still don't like the move.  You can compare Pierce all you want but I don't think that's a comparison at all because Pierce is largely not going to be on the field in true nickel situations.  They both play DL but different roles.

The reason I don't like seeing Timmy gone is because he was arguably our best pass rusher, even compared to the edge guys we have.  Sure, he was inconsistent but I didn't see anyone else out there doing any better.  We just made an already anemic pass rush much worse and that's where the concern is.

Maybe we do only have him for 1 more year but I'd much rather have his production for that time than a jump in the 3rd round.  99 to 74 is a nice jump on paper but in my eyes, it just created yet another hole after not really filling any to this point.  It's a nice draft class to have high picks but still, nothing is ever a sure thing.  My problem is honestly more of the organizational philosophy this offseason where we're seemingly going to count on a bunch of young guys.  I'm alright with asking guys to step up but there's a line and I think we're expecting too much.  It looks like there's going to be a heavy reliance on having a killer draft and I just don't find that realistic.  Hitting on all 4 picks, no matter how early and how deep, is a big ask.

Maybe Timmy sucks and we win the trade and maybe he's awesome in Philly and we lost it.  I just don't see the value in this move as I don't believe we have a viable option currently on the roster.

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2 hours ago, hn68wb4 said:

Whatever, literally anything is a better use of my time than this.

Pretty much my thoughts about posting on RT

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2 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Agreed to an extent.

You can put me in the camp that thinks Timmy is overrated by some, but I still don't like the move.  You can compare Pierce all you want but I don't think that's a comparison at all because Pierce is largely not going to be on the field in true nickel situations.  They both play DL but different roles.

The reason I don't like seeing Timmy gone is because he was arguably our best pass rusher, even compared to the edge guys we have.  Sure, he was inconsistent but I didn't see anyone else out there doing any better.  We just made an already anemic pass rush much worse and that's where the concern is.

Maybe we do only have him for 1 more year but I'd much rather have his production for that time than a jump in the 3rd round.  99 to 74 is a nice jump on paper but in my eyes, it just created yet another hole after not really filling any to this point.  It's a nice draft class to have high picks but still, nothing is ever a sure thing.  My problem is honestly more of the organizational philosophy this offseason where we're seemingly going to count on a bunch of young guys.  I'm alright with asking guys to step up but there's a line and I think we're expecting too much.  It looks like there's going to be a heavy reliance on having a killer draft and I just don't find that realistic.  Hitting on all 4 picks, no matter how early and how deep, is a big ask.

Maybe Timmy sucks and we win the trade and maybe he's awesome in Philly and we lost it.  I just don't see the value in this move as I don't believe we have a viable option currently on the roster.

I am getting really mixed messages from the FO this offseason. I see a lot of moves that are making the current team worse and seem to be more for the future(like this one) but then we are throwing money around in FA like we need to win now. I'd be fine letting the younger guys compete for roles and trading away guys for picks or to save cap if we are rebuilding. It seems a bit silly though to think these guys are going through a rebuild given the money we have invested in FA and the fact that we haven't made the playoffs in 3 of 4 years and those seats have to be getting hotter(if the owner has to announce at the end of the year that you are still around, that is never a good thing). 

Also for the record, I think the Eagles are a really good fit for Jernigan and that next to Cox and Graham with Schwartz as the DC, he can do really well for himself.

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33 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

There's two truths to Ravens fans: wanting Ozzie to be aggressive to get a playmaker, and getting strongly attached to inconsistent players while thinking they could be the next big thing. Though usually it's attached to an offensive guy that would totally be great if they just used him more.

Close the thread

this is all the discussion that needs to be had

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7 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

I am getting really mixed messages from the FO this offseason. I see a lot of moves that are making the current team worse and seem to be more for the future(like this one) but then we are throwing money around in FA like we need to win now. I'd be fine letting the younger guys compete for roles and trading away guys for picks or to save cap if we are rebuilding. It seems a bit silly though to think these guys are going through a rebuild given the money we have invested in FA and the fact that we haven't made the playoffs in 3 of 4 years and those seats have to be getting hotter(if the owner has to announce at the end of the year that you are still around, that is never a good thing). 

Also for the record, I think the Eagles are a really good fit for Jernigan and that next to Cox and Graham with Schwartz as the DC, he can do really well for himself.

Agreed.  I alluded to that in the FA thread.  Just not really sure of the direction and I'm not sure that's a good thing when the seats are obviously getting warm.  There's still time so I'm not panicking, but I just don't see it right now.

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4 hours ago, Sami84 said:

if we were a really good team i'd have no issue with this trade..but we aren't..

 

truth is that i don't see where the sacks are going to come from, where the O line is going to come from and the WR core.

 

if you think the draft will solve this then you're all in la la land. Might get 1-2 good players and the rest...not good enough. 

u gota have a short memory to forget how this bored was all ovah jerigan as filin in for ngata he nevah was close or was b Williams. just not close and now they are happy as a clam bake we moved up in the 3rd and shipped him out. happy as a clam bake for 20 odd spots.  since I never like jerigan the move doesn't matter to me what has to happen now is a good pic at spot 74 an much less convinced they gonna get that right at his stage

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4 hours ago, Sami84 said:

if we were a really good team i'd have no issue with this trade..but we aren't..

 

truth is that i don't see where the sacks are going to come from, where the O line is going to come from and the WR core.

 

if you think the draft will solve this then you're all in la la land. Might get 1-2 good players and the rest...not good enough. 

 

4 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Well last year we got 3 starters and another very good young edge defender who looks to be or next starter. So your 1-2 good players assessment is pretty much baseless.

 

4 hours ago, Sami84 said:

taking quite a chance..most of the drafts are a lot less prosperous AND we had a bucketload of picks last year. This year we only have 7. 

Sammy u gonna let him get aways with that we draffed good last yr cuz we got three starters stuf? 

rd 1 wiff the what pic? u betta land a starter that's a given and no credit otha than Stanly played ok if he can stay sound all the betta

rd 2 project corea!

rd 3 no show kafusi

rd 4 did tavon to small for football start doan think so cring an this guy cant be on the field for us

rd 4 chris morre

rd 4 alex jones now he may  have started but less a miracel happens he aint getting resigned

rd 5 ken to much med dixon

rd 6 judon stil m y vote for best pic that yr

crimeny if we get another draff like this one we be superbowel champs again!

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You missed Alex Lewis. 

Tavon is not too small for football, he was quite possibly the best slot corner in the league when he was actually allowed to play the slot, and ACTUALLY held up quite nicely as a boundary corner as well. 

Rookie LT one of the highest rated LTs in the league, yeah that's just ok. 

Dying to hear your 2 cents on this, since you say we're basically in full rebuild but in denial, we make a future based move since we aren't gonna resign an average DL. But I'm sure you think it's a garbage move even though it falls right in line with what you've been clamoring for @RayRayRaven

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40 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

I am getting really mixed messages from the FO this offseason. I see a lot of moves that are making the current team worse and seem to be more for the future(like this one) but then we are throwing money around in FA like we need to win now. I'd be fine letting the younger guys compete for roles and trading away guys for picks or to save cap if we are rebuilding. It seems a bit silly though to think these guys are going through a rebuild given the money we have invested in FA and the fact that we haven't made the playoffs in 3 of 4 years and those seats have to be getting hotter(if the owner has to announce at the end of the year that you are still around, that is never a good thing). 

Also for the record, I think the Eagles are a really good fit for Jernigan and that next to Cox and Graham with Schwartz as the DC, he can do really well for himself.

they got bilicheck cute id really like the mov if they went all in on comprehesuv plan.  the full monte rebuilt but as u say they paid for some free agent and resigned b willams truth is they r in limbo been so for a yrs now that shuld anser ur question to joey flex. not a fan of stanly not sayin he hasnt worked out jus sayin not a fan and he give joe that 2.5 secs which is good for the quik checkdown.  id have draffed the misissipi tackle playin for miami hell be better long term though we smeared em they got playoffs and we didn't joe didn't play anutha game like the miami game all yr

Edited by RayRayRaven
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1 minute ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

You missed Alex Lewis. 

Tavon is not too small for football, he was quite possibly the best slot corner in the league when he was actually allowed to play the slot, and ACTUALLY held up quite nicely as a boundary corner as well. 

Rookie LT one of the highest rated LTs in the league, yeah that's just ok. 

Dying to hear your 2 cents on this, since you say we're basically in full rebuild but in denial, we make a future based move since we aren't gonna resign an average DL. But I'm sure you think it's a garbage move even though it falls right in line with what you've been clamoring for @RayRayRaven

I was just about to post this. In addition to what you said, it's also unfair to Kaufusi when he was hurt all year. And it's kind of early to talk about resigning Lewis when he is entering his 2nd year. 

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6 minutes ago, SepticeyePoe said:

I was just about to post this. In addition to what you said, it's also unfair to Kaufusi when he was hurt all year. And it's kind of early to talk about resigning Lewis when he is entering his 2nd year. 

called lewis jones and doan care what they say he aint a starter and claimin it was a good draff cuz of him is why this thred goes on

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All this being said....I loved Timmy J and I had hoped he would be the next Ngata for us especially after that rookie season when he stepped in at the end of the season when Ngata went down and did phenomenal. It's clear that he was going to get a purse from a different team and making a move now rather then later was the correct thing to do. Wish we could have got at least a 2nd round for him but it is what it is. Eagles traded down to get a player for one year, maybe he stinks it up there and comes back?

 

It's clear to me that the team either sees the draft as a way of filling his void or is invested in our current players. We are pistol whipping a dead horse here, but Carl Davis is the guy they need to tap on the shoulder. Those on this forum that are skeptical about him are correct because he has character concerns and his health did not allow him to play last year. The tape does show however that he was an animal on that line when motivated, somehow if he recaptures that then I think we are going to be just fine.

Nothing wrong with being a little positive about things you know, Pierce and Davis need to step up now.

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1 hour ago, rmw10 said:

Agreed to an extent.

You can put me in the camp that thinks Timmy is overrated by some, but I still don't like the move.  You can compare Pierce all you want but I don't think that's a comparison at all because Pierce is largely not going to be on the field in true nickel situations.  They both play DL but different roles.

The reason I don't like seeing Timmy gone is because he was arguably our best pass rusher, even compared to the edge guys we have.  Sure, he was inconsistent but I didn't see anyone else out there doing any better.  We just made an already anemic pass rush much worse and that's where the concern is.

Maybe we do only have him for 1 more year but I'd much rather have his production for that time than a jump in the 3rd round.  99 to 74 is a nice jump on paper but in my eyes, it just created yet another hole after not really filling any to this point.  It's a nice draft class to have high picks but still, nothing is ever a sure thing.  My problem is honestly more of the organizational philosophy this offseason where we're seemingly going to count on a bunch of young guys.  I'm alright with asking guys to step up but there's a line and I think we're expecting too much.  It looks like there's going to be a heavy reliance on having a killer draft and I just don't find that realistic.  Hitting on all 4 picks, no matter how early and how deep, is a big ask.

Maybe Timmy sucks and we win the trade and maybe he's awesome in Philly and we lost it.  I just don't see the value in this move as I don't believe we have a viable option currently on the roster.

I completely understand not liking it...

I just dont see Jernigan as the difference between us contending or not contending; so after this season there's a hole to fill anyways. 

Might as well get a jump on seeing if you have a player on the roster that can fill it, give yourself better ammo in a potentially loaded draft to get said replacement, or at least a better player that can be a key piece for the next 4+ years. 

And while Pierce may not have played the same role last year I could see him lining up as the 3T going forward. 

As I recall too, last year we started opting for playing on 1 down lineman in nickel/sub package situations with 5 stand up backers. I think either Williams or Pierce can fill that role. 

Pierce is definitely a projection but with a limited sample size he was among the most productive pass rushers on a per snap basis among DT's. I don't expect he can sustain a rate that high over 30-40 snaps/game but Jernigan never has either (never ranked top 50, even in his rookie campaign when was used sparingly a la Pierce).

 

Regardless - while I think we can contend for a playoff spot, I don't think we're a serious SB contender... and I don't see Jernigan changing that situation one way or the other, and wouldn't be here to help us contend over the next 2-5 yrs.

While Pierce, Henry or whoever we pick at 74 have a chance to be contributors of varying degrees toward that goal. 

 

I get wanting more compensation.... but I never expected much and don't think we stood to get much more if any through a comp pick.

And looking at media big boards and my own evaluations I do see a trend of a sizeable drop off in the caliber of player in the top 75 and the next 50 or so. The drop off from say 40-75 isn't much, so I see the FO placing a higher value than you typically might on moving up 25 spots, bc the difference in talent may be akin to jumping up 2 full rounds. 

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I can't say that I'm mad at the move because I don't feel like we was getting the most out of him anyway. That's not Jernigan's fault just the scheme we run. He's a natural  4-3 linemen and should have 8-10 sacks this year playing next to Cox. People keep saying his play slowed down the second half of the season the last 2 years. That's because he's doubled  70% of the time. That wears you down. He did what he was asked, wish him well. I'm not sure what direction we are heading as an organization but a raven for life.

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My favorite comment on the trade so far, and it's from a Steelers' fan: My only reaction to this is, "dear god what new defensive lineman do they have hiding on their bench now". I don't believe its Carl Davis, but i dont believe they will ever run out.

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2 hours ago, jboy19 said:

You know how many good players can get drafted in 25 picks?

25.

.....and its a sliding scale of diminished returns usually

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