Why the john Ross hype?

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

18 minutes ago, arnie_uk said:

Exactly. It's not his speed that makes him a great prospect

Then what else does??

And either post clips of him displaying these traits, or point me to the games/plays where he's showing them. Because i havent seen instances of great hands when he's actually in tight coverage or going over the middle in traffic. I havent seen him using better than just, good, route running.  I havent seen anyone that tried to really jam him at the line where's he had to work through it.  I havent seen him create instant separate -- it always takes 10 yds or more when he finally gets up to his speed. 

His separation comes from the speed. Either just getting out in front of guys, or causing guys to bail early and he just stomps on the brakes. 

 

I mean its obvious theres a line in the sand that neither side is going to cross. But, i see a guy that if he doesnt have elite speed his quality route running becomes maybe serviceable. Def not good enough that its something he can rely on to get open all day. And if he doesnt have the elite speed to get either the big cushions he so often does or the separation he does from flat out accelerating past DBs, he doesnt have the hands to consistently make contested or difficult catches.

If he doesnt have the speed, you just put a physical corner on him and you dont even let him get into his routes.

No way he's Edelman if hes a 4.5 guy.... bc Edelman is a technician, and is extremely physical. Whether fighting off the line, taking the hit while making a catch, or breaking tackles to get the tough YAC.... Ross does absolutely none of that. Edelman is thick. Ross is a twig.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

19 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

speed is useless in the redzone where ironically ross shined more then any other WR in the draft....

 

 

It's not useless when the DB's are garbage and dont have the ability to jam at the line. I'll go back and rewatch... but most of his red zone TD's that i saw were a CB playing him near the line, in isolation, and doesnt reroute him at all; ross gets a clean release and it's essentially a race to the corner on a fade. QB knows Ross' speed so just puts it far enough where the only person that can get to it is Ross. So either an incomplete pass or easy TD.

And if they gave him a little space, he'd take 2-3 steps and break inside on a slant. Just a race to the inside.

Yea you have to have suddenness to use your speed effectively in the Red Zone - which  Ross does have -- but its all still tied to speed.

 

Not to mention Pac 12 defenses arent exactly great... and not exactly known for being big/physical defenses. Which is what i imagine Ross struggling against to be anything other than a deep speed threat.

 

The game against Alabama is a perfect example. He couldnt do anything bc they know how to play him and have the athletes a CB, S and LB to take him away. 5 catches, 26 yards. Bc they got physical with him, let him get his short catches and then hit him. He's racing for separation on short passes, not route running for separation, which is why the CB was there to make the tackle right away on him.... bc on short stuff you just cant get to your top speed -- which he relies on for most of his space.

Which again, its great. Im not knocking the guy. Speed is dangerous in the NFL. And hes got it in spades. Its not just a 40 time, you see it on tape. Maybe the fastest guy ive ever seen on tape. And thats going to give him opportunities, absolutely. But im confident he will be far less consistent in the NFL, because he doesnt have the other skills to defeat any type of coverage put against him. And, what i like about him we're already pretty good at in the passing game.

You have to be balanced, diverse, able to do different things well and win in different ways. Whether its getting short yardage carries and also having a guy that can break big ones. Whether we're talking D and having OLB's that can get after the passer, but you also need guys who can set the edge be disciplined, get off blocks and tackle.

Youve got to have receivers that can get open with speed and make big plays... but youve also got to have size and be able to make contested catches bc no one in the NFL is getting open for easy catches regularly. THATS what we need. Especially if we're gonna run the ball alot more, and if we're not going to have a dominant OL.

Doesnt make contested catches, is not good at working back to the QB if he doesnt win his route initially, struggles to get off against physical CB's (which is a lot of teams in the NFL), and idc what anyone says his short/intermediate routes are not that good. Theyre good for a burner, but theyre not good.

 

Hes Will Fuller... would i love Will Fuller? Yea. Prob not at 16 though, and id much rather have Hopkins. Fuller becomes a whole heckuva lot better when you have Hopkins already. We dont.

Hes Desean.... would i love Desean? Sure. Not at 16, and hes a whole lot better when hes got Mike Evans, Garcon, Jordan Reed, a Maclin or someone like that to make his speed more dangerous.

Speed and size/over-the-middle-beasts are a killer combo. I mean Torrey/Jacoby and Boldin/Pitta. That was our magic combo.

But Torrey/Jacoby along was awful. I doubt Torrey/Jacoby/Wallace wouldve been great. I dont think Ross/Wallace/Perriman is anywhere near as good a combo as Williams/Wallace/Perriman or even Davis/Wallace/Perriman... maybe even Wallace/Perriman/Juju. It's balance. Its ability to attack different levels in different ways.

Even if Ross was a superior player I wouldnt want him, because the end results wouldnt be superior in my projection.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

And im done with this convo now. theres just two sides. and we'll see.

If Ross lands on a team that has an established WR that is either a Top 10-15 type guy (Green, Julio, AB, Odell, etc...), already has their big bodied, possession guy, or even is a powerful running team with a good/great OL... then i bet he will be a very explosive play maker. But even in that scenario i would almost guarantee that most of his production in the NFL will be big, chunk plays. Not reliably putting up 5-10 catches a game, and making chain-moving or Red Zone plays.

He will not succeed if he's counted on to be the #1 guy in a traditional sense... making plays all over the field. Which is what we need.... and using pick 16 on a WR who will not be that is a waste. 

[Tru11]

16 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

It's not useless when the DB's are garbage and dont have the ability to jam at the line. I'll go back and rewatch... but most of his red zone TD's that i saw were a CB playing him near the line, in isolation, and doesnt reroute him at all; ross gets a clean release and it's essentially a race to the corner on a fade. QB knows Ross' speed so just puts it far enough where the only person that can get to it is Ross. So either an incomplete pass or easy TD.

And if they gave him a little space, he'd take 2-3 steps and break inside on a slant. Just a race to the inside.

Yea you have to have suddenness to use your speed effectively in the Red Zone - which  Ross does have -- but its all still tied to speed.

 

Not to mention Pac 12 defenses arent exactly great... and not exactly known for being big/physical defenses. Which is what i imagine Ross struggling against to be anything other than a deep speed threat.

 

The game against Alabama is a perfect example. He couldnt do anything bc they know how to play him and have the athletes a CB, S and LB to take him away. 5 catches, 26 yards. Bc they got physical with him, let him get his short catches and then hit him. He's racing for separation on short passes, not route running for separation, which is why the CB was there to make the tackle right away on him.... bc on short stuff you just cant get to your top speed -- which he relies on for most of his space.

Which again, its great. Im not knocking the guy. Speed is dangerous in the NFL. And hes got it in spades. Its not just a 40 time, you see it on tape. Maybe the fastest guy ive ever seen on tape. And thats going to give him opportunities, absolutely. But im confident he will be far less consistent in the NFL, because he doesnt have the other skills to defeat any type of coverage put against him. And, what i like about him we're already pretty good at in the passing game.

You have to be balanced, diverse, able to do different things well and win in different ways. Whether its getting short yardage carries and also having a guy that can break big ones. Whether we're talking D and having OLB's that can get after the passer, but you also need guys who can set the edge be disciplined, get off blocks and tackle.

Youve got to have receivers that can get open with speed and make big plays... but youve also got to have size and be able to make contested catches bc no one in the NFL is getting open for easy catches regularly. THATS what we need. Especially if we're gonna run the ball alot more, and if we're not going to have a dominant OL.

Doesnt make contested catches, is not good at working back to the QB if he doesnt win his route initially, struggles to get off against physical CB's (which is a lot of teams in the NFL), and idc what anyone says his short/intermediate routes are not that good. Theyre good for a burner, but theyre not good.

 

Hes Will Fuller... would i love Will Fuller? Yea. Prob not at 16 though, and id much rather have Hopkins. Fuller becomes a whole heckuva lot better when you have Hopkins already. We dont.

Hes Desean.... would i love Desean? Sure. Not at 16, and hes a whole lot better when hes got Mike Evans, Garcon, Jordan Reed, a Maclin or someone like that to make his speed more dangerous.

Speed and size/over-the-middle-beasts are a killer combo. I mean Torrey/Jacoby and Boldin/Pitta. That was our magic combo.

But Torrey/Jacoby along was awful. I doubt Torrey/Jacoby/Wallace wouldve been great. I dont think Ross/Wallace/Perriman is anywhere near as good a combo as Williams/Wallace/Perriman or even Davis/Wallace/Perriman... maybe even Wallace/Perriman/Juju. It's balance. Its ability to attack different levels in different ways.

Even if Ross was a superior player I wouldnt want him, because the end results wouldnt be superior in my projection.

williams and davis are outside receivers.
same goes for wallace and perriman.

so who is going to play in the slot and who is going to ride the bench?

[arnie_uk]

It's a pity I'll never get that "I told you so" moment with Ross if he stays healthy with the boards closing. I'll miss those!

[rossihunter2]

7 hours ago, arnie_uk said:

I do believe you are swayed.You seem to Parrott what some other people say. Mentioned it before but think they were deleted actually but alas you keep thinking Ross doesn't have "hands, body control, or a ball attacking mentality."

Nope - I've never said anything about attacking the ball beyond mentioning that he doesn't high point often - I'm the guy who doesn't like the fit rather than the player - I'd be fine if he goes and plays excellently for another team and don't see why he shouldn't but I think he's not the right "complementary" fit with the Ravens

and even if I do change my opinion (which sometimes happens) I don't do it on a whim, I do it because I've watched more film or look out for new things on film - john Ross, however, is someone I have staunchly been against for us in the 1st round since the beginning - I think the highest I'd mocked him pre-combine was at 28 to Dallas and I still never mock him ahead of Tennessee at 18 - Ross is in fact one of the few prospects I haven't changed my mind about throughout the process

[Jonah DeVito]

2 hours ago, arnie_uk said:

It's a pity I'll never get that "I told you so" moment with Ross if he stays healthy with the boards closing. I'll miss those!

I don't think you told anyone anything they don't already know. Many on here, myself included, believe that Ross wouldn't be a good fit here, and that there are some concerns about him. But I haven't seen anyone say Ross doesn't have the potential to be an explosive playmaker in the NFL. 

[JoeyFlex5]

6 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

It's not relying on a WR to make miraculous catches, in the sense that they couldnt produce or be effective without it, but it brings another dimension to your offense. We're talking about the type of WR thats open even when he's not. The type of guy that when it's 3rd and 8 in the 4th qtr and the D has 7-8 guys dropped in zone and there's nowhere open to go with the ball, that'll demand the ball no matter what, go up and get it.

The guy that dominates in the red zone. A guy that makes 50/50 balls 75/25 or 100/0. 

When you have that guy.... no you dont have to rely on it, but when you know he's capable of doing that 1-2 times a game then you have confidence when the games on the line and maybe take a chance you wouldnt have otherwise. You dont need to see as big an open window when throwing his direction to have the confidence to rifle it in there.

 

And hes not talking about throwing bad passes over a guys head or forcing diving catches. We're talking about the when the WR's running a crossing route or slant, instead of having the perfect precision that hits him in stride without breaking pace (like Brees, Brady often do) maybe misplacing it a little bit so that it hits him right in the numbers instead of out in front of him... so he has to slow down a bit and maybe box out the CB's arm trying to make a play to break it up. 

Also, there are times when you just cant throw the perfect ball. The D plays great coverage and the typical windows just arent open.... and maybe you have to place the ball a bit high, down low, or behind him -- a spot where the DB cant make a play but you give the WR a chance to.

Regardless of how good a QB is, these types of plays/situations present themselves A LOT in the course of a game. Especially with a QB like Joe who's best asset isnt perfect accuracy on the short/intermediate stuff... but absolutely can make the impossible throws or fire a ball into the tightest of windows 15-20 yards down field.

 

So, theres nothing wrong with thinking that this team is missing that type of guy. The one who can make the body adjustments to available in those small, imperfect windows.... the one who will go up high, down low, reach behind, box out, or take the hit and still secure the ball. The one who knows hes open no matter what the Defense does.

Ross can be and very may well be a play maker. But he doesnt present those qualities. Perriman might learn to offer some of that, but mostly down the field -- not in the traffic and over the middle. Wallace doesnt offer those abilities.

We have big play ability. We have guys who can take a 1 yd pass and turn it into an 80 yard TD. We have guys who can get open 15-20 yds down field with speed. With Ross we have more of that, maybe even better of that, but we dont have what we're missing in those tight, crunch time situations that often decide games.

And if you want to be a ball control, balanced, physical running team... then you almost NEED that missing element. Because you're going to put yourself in a lot of 3rd and 4's with the blitz raining down where Joe will have to just fire a ball to a hot route that may or may not be open and just trust he'll catch it. We're going to be in some close games thatll come down to needing a TD from the 15 yd line with time expiring, and needing a guy that can fight through the crowded end zone and catch the ball while taking a big hit.... or when needing a FG to tie in the 4th while at the 50 yd line and needing 15 yds to get into FG position, the guy who will get to the boundary and let Joe just throw it over his shoulder while he boxes out the CB and makes the catch falling out of bounds.

 

Joe's biggest strengths are his arm, getting the ball deep, making throws others cant all over the field, and being BIG TIME when the game is in the balance. We need a WR to match those qualities. It's obvious that his best connections have been with guys who showed him those qualities (Boldin, Pitta before injuries, Heap, SSS). And Mike Williams is the epitome of that.

John Ross, for the good qualities he does have, he is not that.

No need to respond to it lol, I have refused to respond to tru for basically a year now and I made the mistake of responding this one time and opening the door for his damn semantics and pissing match.

 

"Give me exact numbers supporting the nonexistent argument that I am extracting from our conversation by hyperbolizing!" Is all he does, or backpedaling on a subject after strongly implying a point and telling the opposition "I didn't say those exact words! I said this other thing! Quote those exact words you're accusing me of!". I'd rather argue with Sami, at least he makes valid points without reaching.

[Tru11]

smh.

if i did not say those words , i was not implying it in the first.

if you cant quote  that i said/implied that , it means i did not say or imply that.

its really that simply.

i say what i mean, i dont say 1 thing while meaning something else.

that makes no freaking sense.

dammm people always get so freaking defensive and salty when you dont agree or say something they dont like.
 

 

 

[arnie_uk]

9 hours ago, Jonah DeVito said:

I don't think you told anyone anything they don't already know. Many on here, myself included, believe that Ross wouldn't be a good fit here, and that there are some concerns about him. But I haven't seen anyone say Ross doesn't have the potential to be an explosive playmaker in the NFL. 

 

On 06/04/2017 at 0:41 PM, JoeyFlex5 said:

Oh really? Give an example of him having hands, body control, or a ball attacking mentality. Those are raw skills, not routes which can be picked up by any player who doesn't have stiff hips

See this

[arnie_uk]

Just an fyi, davis is actually the guy I want. 

Edited April 8 by arnie_uk

[JoeyFlex5]

14 minutes ago, arnie_uk said:

 

See this

how is that saying he cant be an explosive playmaker? the man runs a 4.22 and runs great routes, ofcourse he can be a playmaker. saying he doesnt attack the ball is in no way saying he cant be an explosive playmaker at all. 

how did you extract that from what i said? i have, this entire time, said that i like ross the player, i dont like ross as a fit, being an injury risk and undersized and not fitting the mold of a #1 i dont think the ravens can provide the right environment for him, and i dont think he improves our team as much as the other first round receivers. 

lets also not forget the context of that  post, which was a response to someone saying he was more raw talent than odell beckham. john ross is not in the same universe as beckham in regards to catching/attacking the ball in and out of coverage.

Edited April 8 by JoeyFlex5

[Willbacker]

11 hours ago, rossihunter2 said:

Nope - I've never said anything about attacking the ball beyond mentioning that he doesn't high point often - I'm the guy who doesn't like the fit rather than the player - I'd be fine if he goes and plays excellently for another team and don't see why he shouldn't but I think he's not the right "complementary" fit with the Ravens

and even if I do change my opinion (which sometimes happens) I don't do it on a whim, I do it because I've watched more film or look out for new things on film - john Ross, however, is someone I have staunchly been against for us in the 1st round since the beginning - I think the highest I'd mocked him pre-combine was at 28 to Dallas and I still never mock him ahead of Tennessee at 18 - Ross is in fact one of the few prospects I haven't changed my mind about throughout the process

I'm thinking the Bills might  select him. Already got their stud In Watkins so why not get a field stretcher which would open up things even more. Tyrod has got cannon for an arm.

Personally I'd wait till the 3rd to get a receiver. The pool will still be deep there.

[rossihunter2]

12 minutes ago, Willbacker said:

I'm thinking the Bills might  select him. Already got their stud In Watkins so why not get a field stretcher which would open up things even more. Tyrod has got cannon for an arm.

Personally I'd wait till the 3rd to get a receiver. The pool will still be deep there.

not only do the bills need another good receiver, they also need a reliable one because of how injury-prone watkins is so I'm not so sure about ross for them

for me i think the value is going to be better in the 1st and 2nd rounds at receiver and much more likely to have quality corners drop to the 3rd

[Willbacker]

38 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

not only do the bills need another good receiver, they also need a reliable one because of how injury-prone watkins is so I'm not so sure about ross for them

for me i think the value is going to be better in the 1st and 2nd rounds at receiver and much more likely to have quality corners drop to the 3rd

Well spent the last half hour studying the big 3. Williams against Alabama and Auburn. Davis against Wisconsin and Ross against Colorado and Oregon.

Ross by far best RAC but against stiff corner competition against Colorado had major problems getting open on anything downfield and dropped more passes than what I like. Oregon was like a highlight reel but this guy has got playmaker written all over him plus he has return ability.

Williams to me had the best hands and can body off a defender especially on slants. Like his size and seems to have enough speed. Lack of separation could be a problem but without a doubt can definitely win a contest going for the ball. I know a lot of people don't consider this important but seems to have no interest in run blocking. Of course coaches can correct this. Routes need to be more crisp.

Davis I probally need to see more but he was finding ways to get open against Wisconsin. I watched a few Wisconsin games and their secondary was by far the weakest part of their D. Just worried bout the small school status even tho I know I can have Antonio Brown thrown in my face all day.

For me Williams is my only interest since Ross to me is not a chain mover and I don't trust Davis. What do you think of Davis??

As to the Bills they definitely going WR imo (so this really means they'll take Ryan Ramcyk lol). Other teams could be the Titans,Saints,Bengals and Eagles.

While I also believe quality corners will fall to the 3rd so will receivers. Isaih Ford I'm really high on (Va Tech is my favorite ACC team) and Kupp seems to be freefalling down just to name a couple.

[rossihunter2]

15 minutes ago, Willbacker said:

Well spent the last half hour studying the big 3. Williams against Alabama and Auburn. Davis against Wisconsin and Ross against Colorado and Oregon.

Ross by far best RAC but against stiff corner competition against Colorado had major problems getting open on anything downfield and dropped more passes than what I like. Oregon was like a highlight reel but this guy has got playmaker written all over him plus he has return ability.

Williams to me had the best hands and can body off a defender especially on slants. Like his size and seems to have enough speed. Lack of separation could be a problem but without a doubt can definitely win a contest going for the ball. I know a lot of people don't consider this important but seems to have no interest in run blocking. Of course coaches can correct this. Routes need to be more crisp.

Davis I probally need to see more but he was finding ways to get open against Wisconsin. I watched a few Wisconsin games and their secondary was by far the weakest part of their D. Just worried bout the small school status even tho I know I can have Antonio Brown thrown in my face all day.

For me Williams is my only interest since Ross to me is not a chain mover and I don't trust Davis. What do you think of Davis??

As to the Bills they definitely going WR imo (so this really means they'll take Ryan Ramcyk lol). Other teams could be the Titans,Saints,Bengals and Eagles.

While I also believe quality corners will fall to the 3rd so will receivers. Isaih Ford I'm really high on (Va Tech is my favorite ACC team) and Kupp seems to be freefalling down just to name a couple.

williams is a playmaker who understands leverage better than anyone else in the class which is how he makes deep plays without long speed - but i disagree about him having the best hands of the 3 - that title has to go to corey davis who despite the occasional concentration drop high points the ball and hands-catches those beauties all over the field - williams is more of a leverage catcher (to be nice - a lot of the time he is a body catcher or has to double catch - obviously there is the problem of competition and contested catches etc. but as a pure catcher davis has easily the best hands of the 3)

williams is a potential game-wrecker because his skillset and success in college was never predicated on just being bigger - it was about using his size and leverage which will serve him well at the next level - he has by far the highest floor of any of the 3

davis runs beautiful routes - i know joey specifically says its easier to work in space, but the creative way he works in the space he's given and how he runs his stems is actually a delight to watch on film - its the little head fakes, false steps, hip flips that he does on every route no matter how far off the coverage which is something that makes me think it will translate well to the next level as long as he can deal with press-man - because when he has space to run routes it's crazy how he could sell his fakes etc.

ross is obviously a guy who is twitchy when he runs his routes and has the obvious deep speed advantage of the other two, but with the knee injuries and the unspectacular work in the short/intermediate range - this is not to say that he doesnt make plays there but he isnt a fast breaking route runner - he's a guy who makes separation through blazing speed and gets YAC if he's led by the qb - in terms of the ravens I just  dont see the fit because flacco has never been a consistently leading qb and the ravens have two speedsters on the roster (not to say all quick guys are the same) but the ravens really miss the skillsets of the other two of the big 3 than they do for ross - and the injuries do worry me given that 2 of our 4 receivers on the roster have had injury problems causing them to miss significant time

with regards to the 3rd round isaiah ford i think will be available in the 3rd but unless cooper kupp is actually there i dont see a wr who will be BPA there if any of the corners fall (which i expect a couple of them will)

[Willbacker]

10 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

williams is a playmaker who understands leverage better than anyone else in the class which is how he makes deep plays without long speed - but i disagree about him having the best hands of the 3 - that title has to go to corey davis who despite the occasional concentration drop high points the ball and hands-catches those beauties all over the field - williams is more of a leverage catcher (to be nice - a lot of the time he is a body catcher or has to double catch - obviously there is the problem of competition and contested catches etc. but as a pure catcher davis has easily the best hands of the 3)

williams is a potential game-wrecker because his skillset and success in college was never predicated on just being bigger - it was about using his size and leverage which will serve him well at the next level - he has by far the highest floor of any of the 3

davis runs beautiful routes - i know joey specifically says its easier to work in space, but the creative way he works in the space he's given and how he runs his stems is actually a delight to watch on film - its the little head fakes, false steps, hip flips that he does on every route no matter how far off the coverage which is something that makes me think it will translate well to the next level as long as he can deal with press-man - because when he has space to run routes it's crazy how he could sell his fakes etc.

ross is obviously a guy who is twitchy when he runs his routes and has the obvious deep speed advantage of the other two, but with the knee injuries and the unspectacular work in the short/intermediate range - this is not to say that he doesnt make plays there but he isnt a fast breaking route runner - he's a guy who makes separation through blazing speed and gets YAC if he's led by the qb - in terms of the ravens I just  dont see the fit because flacco has never been a consistently leading qb and the ravens have two speedsters on the roster (not to say all quick guys are the same) but the ravens really miss the skillsets of the other two of the big 3 than they do for ross - and the injuries do worry me given that 2 of our 4 receivers on the roster have had injury problems causing them to miss significant time

with regards to the 3rd round isaiah ford i think will be available in the 3rd but unless cooper kupp is actually there i dont see a wr who will be BPA there if any of the corners fall (which i expect a couple of them will)

Did you mean highest ceiling lol. Thanks for your opinion on Davis.

I know this is a John Ross thread but just to have fun who do you like better between Williams/Davis for us. As of now I like Williams. And what if Barnett is there?

[Jonah DeVito]

5 hours ago, arnie_uk said:

 

See this

That post is irrelevant. 

[rossihunter2]

58 minutes ago, Willbacker said:

Did you mean highest ceiling lol. Thanks for your opinion on Davis.

I know this is a John Ross thread but just to have fun who do you like better between Williams/Davis for us. As of now I like Williams. And what if Barnett is there?

no i did mean floor - i think he is the safest of all of the 3 but i see davis as having an equally high ceiling if not higher

[Willbacker]

16 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

no i did mean floor - i think he is the safest of all of the 3 but i see davis as having an equally high ceiling if not higher

Ok so you meant as safest which I believe also. Pretty funny how they just now ran an article on him in the news section.

[52520Andrew]

Why the hype? 

Assuming health, he can get separation like no one else in this class, he is a guy defenses will have to account for every snap, we can actually have a good returner again. Tons of room for improvement as well as while he is decent at routes, he can certainly get better there. 

Also Perriman made plenty of spectacular catches but had quite a few drops in college. Think his drop rate was around 15%. And while Ross doesn't win jump balls a lot(wow, go figure with his size), the guy has had his share of really nice catches and his drop rate for last year was less than 5%.

Reasons why I would be concerned, health, not winning jump balls if your quarterback can't throw a deep ball where Ross doesn't have to wait everytime for the ball. Second one doesn't really apply to us although you could argue fit as we already have a ton of speed on the field. I'd just say Ross can win underneath with that quickness as CBs will be too scared of his speed. And if you give him extra attention, that opens things up for Wallace and Perriman. 

Not my favorite pick at 16 but if healthy I would be fine with it and comparing him to Perriman based on 40 times is a disservice to both players.

[arnie_uk]

54 minutes ago, Jonah DeVito said:

That post is irrelevant. 

How's it irrelevant? There you have a guy saying he doesn't even have good hands

[arnie_uk]

4 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

Why the hype? 

Assuming health, he can get separation like no one else in this class, he is a guy defenses will have to account for every snap, we can actually have a good returner again. Tons of room for improvement as well as while he is decent at routes, he can certainly get better there. 

Also Perriman made plenty of spectacular catches but had quite a few drops in college. Think his drop rate was around 15%. And while Ross doesn't win jump balls a lot(wow, go figure with his size), the guy has had his share of really nice catches and his drop rate for last year was less than 5%.

Reasons why I would be concerned, health, not winning jump balls if your quarterback can't throw a deep ball where Ross doesn't have to wait everytime for the ball. Second one doesn't really apply to us although you could argue fit as we already have a ton of speed on the field. I'd just say Ross can win underneath with that quickness as CBs will be too scared of his speed. And if you give him extra attention, that opens things up for Wallace and Perriman. 

Not my favorite pick at 16 but if healthy I would be fine with it and comparing him to Perriman based on 40 times is a disservice to both players.

Sensible post finally.

[Tru11]

1 hour ago, 52520Andrew said:

Why the hype? 

Assuming health, he can get separation like no one else in this class, he is a guy defenses will have to account for every snap, we can actually have a good returner again. Tons of room for improvement as well as while he is decent at routes, he can certainly get better there. 

Also Perriman made plenty of spectacular catches but had quite a few drops in college. Think his drop rate was around 15%. And while Ross doesn't win jump balls a lot(wow, go figure with his size), the guy has had his share of really nice catches and his drop rate for last year was less than 5%.

Reasons why I would be concerned, health, not winning jump balls if your quarterback can't throw a deep ball where Ross doesn't have to wait everytime for the ball. Second one doesn't really apply to us although you could argue fit as we already have a ton of speed on the field. I'd just say Ross can win underneath with that quickness as CBs will be too scared of his speed. And if you give him extra attention, that opens things up for Wallace and Perriman. 

Not my favorite pick at 16 but if healthy I would be fine with it and comparing him to Perriman based on 40 times is a disservice to both players.

all hail zen-oh sama

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, arnie_uk said:

How's it irrelevant? There you have a guy saying he doesn't even have good hands

You still didn't respond to my post where I pointed out how you put words in my mouth. I never said he doesn't have good hands, I said he doesn't attack the ball and hasn't shown consistent hands catching and uses his arms and body a lot. 

And for the third time, I was saying this in response to someone saying he was more talented than ODB, and in comparison ODB has better hands in every sense of the word and it's not even close.