[News] Eisenberg: Bolstering Defense Is Part Of Surrounding Joe Flacco With Right Tools

[bioLarzen]

1 hour ago, jravens1313 said:

People also forget how good Ray Rice was. It's a shame he was blackballed by the NFL and the Ravens.

Rice was our last great RB to date.

 

Man, if only someone published a video of Fournette working a bong hours before the draft...

[ellicottraven]

The bottom line was the defense was ranked 7th in the league and the offense was in the bottom half in the league. Yes, for Flacco to be successful he needs a lot more than a stout defense. He needs in no particular order, to play like an elite QB with at least 25-30 TDs and less than 10 Ints. Have a yards per throw far more than last year, needs a stellar running game and needs a great offensive line that can give him more time to find a receiver. Right now, if he's under pressure the headlights freeze him into mistakes. So, they need to give him enough time so he can succeed.

[Tank 92]

38 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

The bottom line was the defense was ranked 7th in the league and the offense was in the bottom half in the league. Yes, for Flacco to be successful he needs a lot more than a stout defense. He needs in no particular order, to play like an elite QB with at least 25-30 TDs and less than 10 Ints. Have a yards per throw far more than last year, needs a stellar running game and needs a great offensive line that can give him more time to find a receiver. Right now, if he's under pressure the headlights freeze him into mistakes. So, they need to give him enough time so he can succeed.

The bottom line is that you've completely missed the point, or are purposely ignoring it. Regardless of Flacco's performance last year or where the the defense ranked, they blew numerous games by sucking bad late and not finishing. It's likely that the Ravens were in the playoffs if that did not happen. 

[sflegend89]

Honestly sick of trying to sugar coat the fact that the offense was well below where it needed to be and has lost their best playmaker in SSS and one of the best RT's in football in Wagner.

That unit is in a bad way right now and the draft can only alleviate so much. It's very troubling.

Edited April 3 by sflegend89

[Purple Dawg 96]

  6 hours ago, ellicottraven said:

The bottom line was the defense was ranked 7th in the league and the offense was in the bottom half in the league. Yes, for Flacco to be successful he needs a lot more than a stout defense. He needs in no particular order, to play like an elite QB with at least 25-30 TDs and less than 10 Ints. Have a yards per throw far more than last year, needs a stellar running game and needs a great offensive line that can give him more time to find a receiver. Right now, if he's under pressure the headlights freeze him into mistakes. So, they need to give him enough time so he can succeed.

The bottom line is that you've completely missed the point, or are purposely ignoring it. Regardless of Flacco's performance last year or where the the defense ranked, they blew numerous games by sucking bad late and not finishing. It's likely that the Ravens were in the playoffs if that did not happen. 

If you believe that I got oceanside property in Vegas if interested let me know! Smh the Offense left the Defense hangin! Defense ranked 7th Offense got a 100 million dollar man ranked at the bottom! The sun rises and sets on the QB PERIOD!

[sflegend89]

7 hours ago, Tank 92 said:

The bottom line is that you've completely missed the point, or are purposely ignoring it. Regardless of Flacco's performance last year or where the the defense ranked, they blew numerous games by sucking bad late and not finishing. It's likely that the Ravens were in the playoffs if that did not happen. 

It should never come down to getting 1 stop at the end of the game as often as it did last year, if the offense could actually put some points on the board many of those games would've already been over.

I'll do you one better, if the offense could actually put drives together and not constantly go 3 and out then we wouldn't have an exhausted defense on the field when we do need a clutch stop.

The apologetics for that unit is unexplainable to me. If we want to see a return to form and getting back in the playoffs we should all be in an uproar over how bad the current offensive unit is. We have a unit that was already bad to begin with in 2016, now minus our best playmaker, starting RT, starting C, and starting FB.

You know if we were winning games and making the playoffs some of the blind defending of the front office would at least be palatable. The results speak for themselves, missed playoffs 3 out of the last 4 years. The criticism is justified.

Edited April 3 by sflegend89

[Halshayeji]

16 hours ago, Orange_Peanut said:

KO was not the same KO that we know today, he was above average at best because he was hurt all the time, so Urschel is comparable. Jensen is an average center but it should work out. Worse comes to worst, put Jensen at G and Urschel at C.

The leadership will never be at that level, but Weddle and Suggs are doing a pretty darn good job in my opinion. The addition of Jefferson will also boost the confidence and swagger of the secondary. CJ is another up-and-coming guy after he takes Correa under his wing. My gut feeling also tells me that Dumervil returns. Flacco, Yanda and a grown-up Wallace will take on the leadership roles on the offensive side of the ball.

I agree 100 percent with your second paragraph. But your first paragraph breaks my heart....

KO was a great raven! He hurt his back once and missed 9 games. He's never missed more than 2 games every other season that he didn't get a disc in his back. He's no more or less injury prone than Jensen or urschel. As far as his play, he was light years better than those two. It's not even fair to put Jensen, urschel, and KO in the same sentance.

It really hurts me when fans just go overboard the minute a player leaves Baltimore forgetting all the good times and plays he made.

you can regret him leaving or hate that he left and that's debateable because in hindsight we also got a 3rd round comp in return. What you can't do is deny how great he was as a Raven...

[Halshayeji]

7 hours ago, Tank 92 said:

The bottom line is that you've completely missed the point, or are purposely ignoring it. Regardless of Flacco's performance last year or where the the defense ranked, they blew numerous games by sucking bad late and not finishing. It's likely that the Ravens were in the playoffs if that did not happen. 

Oh wowza!!!

you really had to go that far.....

Had the defense not played as good as they did last year then we would have lost every game by 2 TDs or more! The offense failed to finish drives every game and failed to sustain drives on a regular basis...

now the defense is the reason why we missed the playoffs?!

like you, I desire more from our Defense but if we have to point a finger at someone then it's obvious where you should point it. Il give you those 3 games but then il ask you about the remaining 13.... I think we would have made the playoffs with 13 wins...

the defense forced more 3 and outs than anyone. That means our offense had more opportunities to score than anyone and in return they just gave the ball back forcing our D to make more and more and more stops untill eventually the broke! 

At one point in the season, our offense averaged the third least points per possession and the two teams behind us were SF and CLE. 

[Tank 92]

16 minutes ago, sflegend89 said:

It should never come down to getting 1 stop at the end of the game as often as it did last year, if the offense could actually put some points on the board many of those games would've already been over.

I'll do you one better, if the offense could actually put drives together and not constantly go 3 and out then we wouldn't have an exhausted defense on the field when we do need a clutch stop.

The apologetics for that unit is unexplainable to me. If we want to see a return to form and getting back in the playoffs we should all be in an uproar over how bad the current offensive unit is. We have a unit that was already bad to begin with in 2016, now minus our best playmaker, starting RT, starting C, and starting FB.

You know if we were winning games and making the playoffs some of the blind defending of the front office would at least be palatable. The results speak for themselves, missed playoffs 3 out of the last 4 years. The criticism is justified.

If you actually read the article no one was defending the poor offensive production or poor play on Flacco's part. The FACTS are that they did enough in quite a few of the losses to put the team in a position to win and the D choked. Just FACTS, no rationalizations or excuses. Other teams in our division had issues at some point last year as well and it's likely if the D had not choked in just a couple of those losses the Ravens are in the playoffs. 

I'm not going to bother going into the "exhausted D" argument, that's been discussed ad nauseum and is not even close to being right. And if you watch football at all you will see that more often than not it comes down "to one stop at the end of the game" all over the NFL, week in and week out. Rarely are there "comfortable wins" any more. 

Again, I don't see anyone saying that huge improvements aren't needed on offense, Stevie Wonder could see that. But none of that matters if you don't finish games. Look no farther than the this year's SB for a perfect illustration of that FACT. 

[Halshayeji]

9 hours ago, bioLarzen said:

Rice was our last great RB to date.

 

Man, if only someone published a video of Fournette working a bong hours before the draft...

Hahaaaaahaaa good one.... Touché 

[BMoreDuck]

10 hours ago, jravens1313 said:

In today's pass happy game an 84 QB rating is below average. Flacco has been a below average Regular season QB with stacked talent around him. He somehow always plays his best ball in January.

I still believe that we don't have the right offensive system for Flacco. It all started with the SB run where we somehow thought he would turn into Tom Brady because he had some stupid numbers in the 2012 postseason. We need a run heavy attack. Kubiak was awesome. We need someone like Kubiak or Shanahan to run our offense. Problem is, these guys get HC gigs fast.

You lost me at "stacked talent." Joe has never had a true #1 receiver who could just take a game over. SSS, Q, etc, etc were all serviceable, but their best years were behind them regardless of the stats they put up at Baltimore. It's time for the FO to get Joe an OBJ, Jones, Brown, AJG, Megatron type receiver. Joe isn't elite, but he is definitely not a bad QB.

 

The FO needs to get Joe a real #1 target to go with the pieces already in place and they need to make sure the have a line that can protect him. Joe isn't overly mobile so he doesn't do well when he is pressured. If he has a line that can give him time, a true #1 receiver, a guy who can stretch the field(Perriman) and a solid RB, Joe can carve defenses up.

 

The defense is almost set. We just need a pass rusher, another corner and another LB. If Ozzie nails this draft, then we can make a post-season run. Ozzie has to hit this draft out of the park.

[law215]

'Surrounding Flacco with the right tools' is another way of admitting the $120M QB has not lived up to the contract.

The number one problem with the offense was not the lack of playmakers. In fact , going into last season, this site talked endlessly about how Flacco has 'so many weapons' and how the returning o-line along with addressing LT would be a much better offense.

The problem isn't the right tools, it's the coaching staff that did not know how to use them. They barely ran the ball and made boneheaded calls that cost the Ravens at least 2 games (Raiders, Redskins). If those things changed, the Ravens would have been 10-6 and in the playoffs.

The defense lacks speed in the secondary and a consistent pass rusher. That BPA will be there at #16. My concern with drafting offense is the offense had weapons (Smith Sr, Pitta, Wallace, Dixon, Juice, West) , a 1st round LT, a HOF Guard (Yanda), and a top 10 RT (Wagner) and still looked pathetic.

Ravens need the right coaching since you can only draft and pay so many players.

[Chuckx999]

Law215 has it right. The QB is not what he once was and the play calling is just going south. I would still go after TE O. J. Howard, he's just a beast on the field, a Todd Heap type of player!! The ZILLION TE's we have now are no where near that. Then go after a center, LB and/or edge rusher.
Please don't let Ozzie pick another WR, he just can't pick that position.

[rmcjacket23]

'Surrounding Flacco with the right tools' is another way of admitting the $120M QB has not lived up to the contract.

The number one problem with the offense was not the lack of playmakers. In fact , going into last season, this site talked endlessly about how Flacco has 'so many weapons' and how the returning o-line along with addressing LT would be a much better offense.

The problem isn't the right tools, it's the coaching staff that did not know how to use them. They barely ran the ball and made boneheaded calls that cost the Ravens at least 2 games (Raiders, Redskins). If those things changed, the Ravens would have been 10-6 and in the playoffs.

The defense lacks speed in the secondary and a consistent pass rusher. That BPA will be there at #16. My concern with drafting offense is the offense had weapons (Smith Sr, Pitta, Wallace, Dixon, Juice, West) , a 1st round LT, a HOF Guard (Yanda), and a top 10 RT (Wagner) and still looked pathetic.

Ravens need the right coaching since you can only draft and pay so many players.

Guess its just a matter of perception.

1. In terms of the run game, its a combination of not sticking with it AND not being effective at it, with the latter being the bigger issue. A lot of fans like to complain about us abandoning it, and in SOME but not all cases, this was a problem.

The REAL issue is the lack of effectiveness when we did do it. Regardless of perception, we're still running the ball 20-25 times a game most of the time, and in many cases, that simply wasn't yielding much productivity on on offense.

I have zero interest in a volume based approach to running the ball. I have interest in a efficient and effective based approach to running the ball.

2. The weapons argument has and always will be debatable. The fact that the list of weapons you provided includes a TE who caught a lot of passes but didn't actually gain much yardage when he did (which is kind of important), a RB like West who is the very definition of average, and a rookie RB who essentially missed about half the season and lacked effectiveness when he did play kind of summarize the situation. It also includes a guy we knew was retiring and was like 40 years old, and a FB.

The offensive line has some good players, but it also had a lot of injuries, and it was weak in the middle, which is the worst place to be weak at.

In the end, coaches coach. That's all they can do. Every game plan is drawn up with the expressed intent and research of being effective. The effectiveness of it in real time actually has nothing to do with the coaches... that's all on the players. Coaches aren't drawing up plays that are designed to lead to negative yardage, turnovers, etc.

[rmcjacket23]

Ya John, our Defense let us down a few times but they were on the field for 45 out of the 60 minutes played and exhausted. Offense has to stay on the field long enough for the defense to get a breather.

This is a myth of course. Go check the time of possession from 2016. Offense is on the field 51% of the time.

Basically an equal split. That's not good compared to good teams, of course, but 30 of the 60 minutes a game is the more accurate number.

[rmcjacket23]

  21 hours ago, bioLarzen said:

  21 hours ago, drillem said:

All we need now is a good quarterback. And going by ship for that game in GB is similar to staying in Calif for a week between games a few years back. We all saw how that went. You get in a plane, you get there quick. You get on a ship and you just float for days. Who is making these decisions?

Well... sorry to have to break it to you, but...

 

1.) we already have a good QB - one that played rather poorly at stretches of last season - but not a bad QB by any measure;

2.) I'm afraid you've been fooled. That ship-thing was an April's fool prank.

Sorry to break it to YOU! No, the Ravens do NOT have a good QB. PJ's living quite famously off a wing and a prayer heave, botched by the safety. A lifetime QB rating of 84% for a ten year starter is AWFUL! You can see how bad Pathetic Joe and Self Righteous John have been since Lewis retired. You can make every excuse in the book you want for these two, but it doesn't change the facts.

If I asked you to explain to me what QB rating is even what it means, you couldn't do it.

And that's why NFL teams don't take joke statistics like that seriously, and why fans shouldn't either.

[Cawtious]

15 hours ago, b93333 said:

Urschel comparable to KO??? Do you really believe that?

KO is a physical freak.  John by no means is in that category.  John is fairly tough, but he doesn't seem to have the killer instinct.  He's an intelligent football player, but if his technique is a little off, he gets outmatched physically on pass pro.  He's not bad at run blocking, but he's not even close to KO's caliber in that department. 

Jensen IS nasty at the point of attack.  He's a good run blocker, and is always looking for that second level block.  He has quick hands and placing him at center will play to his strengths.  His opponent is going to be lined up closer to him where his hand speed will help him win battles up front.  He's heavier in the legs and arms than John, and he'll be able to anchor better than Zuttah.  I think that's the key for Joey.  We've got to keep the center of that pocket out of his face.  I've not seen Skura in action so I don't feel I could formulate an opinion on him.

There has been a lot of saltiness over the prospect of John and Ryan starting.  Lots of folks want the shiny new guy to show up and save our O-line.  There is the sentiment that "they didn't start last year, so they're not good enough to start this year.  I don't think a green player out of the draft is necessarily the answer. 

I say let John, Ryan, and Matt battle it out.  May the best man win.  Saying that a player cannot improve over last year, especially three guys as young as they really  is pessimistic at best. 

We should pick up a C/G in the draft for development.  I wouldn't burn a high round pick on one, though. 

[Bruce_Almty]

Ray Lewis lead the Ravens to a Super Bowl triumph, Joe Flacco was later handed the reigns.

[rmcjacket23]

  16 hours ago, b93333 said:

Urschel comparable to KO??? Do you really believe that?

KO is a physical freak.  John by no means is in that category.  John is fairly tough, but he doesn't seem to have the killer instinct.  He's an intelligent football player, but if his technique is a little off, he gets outmatched physically on pass pro.  He's not bad at run blocking, but he's not even close to KO's caliber in that department. 

Jensen IS nasty at the point of attack.  He's a good run blocker, and is always looking for that second level block.  He has quick hands and placing him at center will play to his strengths.  His opponent is going to be lined up closer to him where his hand speed will help him win battles up front.  He's heavier in the legs and arms than John, and he'll be able to anchor better than Zuttah.  I think that's the key for Joey.  We've got to keep the center of that pocket out of his face.  I've not seen Skura in action so I don't feel I could formulate an opinion on him.

There has been a lot of saltiness over the prospect of John and Ryan starting.  Lots of folks want the shiny new guy to show up and save our O-line.  There is the sentiment that "they didn't start last year, so they're not good enough to start this year.  I don't think a green player out of the draft is necessarily the answer. 

I say let John, Ryan, and Matt battle it out.  May the best man win.  Saying that a player cannot improve over last year, especially three guys as young as they really  is pessimistic at best. 

We should pick up a C/G in the draft for development.  I wouldn't burn a high round pick on one, though. 

Would point out that Jensen is going into year 5 in the league, so he's not exactly young by NFL standards.

I agree that players obviously improve, but I don't think you're seeing very many examples of guys who are average to below average for the first 3-4 years and then take a major step forward.

[Tank 92]

1 hour ago, Bruce_Almty said:

Ray Lewis lead the Ravens to a Super Bowl triumph, Joe Flacco was later handed the reigns.

LMAO!  Ray Ray was a shell of his former self and on his "last ride". To be frank that's what he did, came along for the ride. 

[Cawtious]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Would point out that Jensen is going into year 5 in the league, so he's not exactly young by NFL standards.

I agree that players obviously improve, but I don't think you're seeing very many examples of guys who are average to below average for the first 3-4 years and then take a major step forward.

He's 25 going on 26.  Young enough. 

Remember also that he missed his entire first season due to a Jones fracture of his left foot.  He got spotty play his second year, as illness moved him down to PS after being cut (Apnea). Fought his way back to the 53 by the end of the year.

 I think this is his year and I hope he takes advantage of the opportunity.  Last year they monkeyed around with him as far as position.  I think Center is where he'll do work.

[Cawtious]

6 hours ago, Halshayeji said:

I agree 100 percent with your second paragraph. But your first paragraph breaks my heart....

KO was a great raven! He hurt his back once and missed 9 games. He's never missed more than 2 games every other season that he didn't get a disc in his back. He's no more or less injury prone than Jensen or urschel. As far as his play, he was light years better than those two. It's not even fair to put Jensen, urschel, and KO in the same sentance.

It really hurts me when fans just go overboard the minute a player leaves Baltimore forgetting all the good times and plays he made.

you can regret him leaving or hate that he left and that's debateable because in hindsight we also got a 3rd round comp in return. What you can't do is deny how great he was as a Raven...

KO was a great Raven.  Jensen had a broken foot that cost him his rookie campaign and a concussion that sidelined him for a week during preseason.  John also had a concussion and a leg injury as well.  It's tough in the trenches! 

[ellicottraven]

14 hours ago, Tank 92 said:

The bottom line is that you've completely missed the point, or are purposely ignoring it. Regardless of Flacco's performance last year or where the the defense ranked, they blew numerous games by sucking bad late and not finishing. It's likely that the Ravens were in the playoffs if that did not happen. 

'purposely ignoring it' just about sums it up!

[ellicottraven]

15 hours ago, bioLarzen said:

Rice was our last great RB to date.

 

Man, if only someone published a video of Fournette working a bong hours before the draft...

Now that's cruel man! But, I wouldn't mind it if he falls to us!

[rmcjacket23]

1 hour ago, Cawtious said:

He's 25 going on 26.  Young enough. 

Remember also that he missed his entire first season due to a Jones fracture of his left foot.  He got spotty play his second year, as illness moved him down to PS after being cut (Apnea). Fought his way back to the 53 by the end of the year.

 I think this is his year and I hope he takes advantage of the opportunity.  Last year they monkeyed around with him as far as position.  I think Center is where he'll do work.

The issue I see is that he wasn't even the backup Center this season, nor did he do anything to overtake somebody like Zuttah who didn't play that well.

I've seen nothing to suggest he's even being considered as an option at Center. I think at best he's competing for a reserve Guard spot.

[Cawtious]

15 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

The issue I see is that he wasn't even the backup Center this season, nor did he do anything to overtake somebody like Zuttah who didn't play that well.

I've seen nothing to suggest he's even being considered as an option at Center. I think at best he's competing for a reserve Guard spot.

Interesting.  I've seen something that more than suggests it.  Harbs has mentioned it:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bs-sp-ravens-owners-meetings-0329-20170328-story.html

 

[Halshayeji]

4 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

If I asked you to explain to me what QB rating is even what it means, you couldn't do it.

And that's why NFL teams don't take joke statistics like that seriously, and why fans shouldn't either.
 

Absolutely true. Stats almost never tell the full story. On the flip side, every once in a while someone will jump up and yell out something like "Joe threw for 4000 yards. How's that a bad season" and in just kill me when Joe himself would admit that he had a prity tough year all around

[Crusader]

  4 hours ago, Bruce_Almty said:

Ray Lewis lead the Ravens to a Super Bowl triumph, Joe Flacco was later handed the reigns.

LMAO!  Ray Ray was a shell of his former self and on his "last ride". To be frank that's what he did, came along for the ride. 

Ray and Ed were so bad that the Ravens made the playoffs 4 of the last 5 years since they left. Those goal line stance was terrible in 2012. Man, I glade their gone. Sarcasm at it finest.

[rmcjacket23]

  3 hours ago, Tank 92 said:

  5 hours ago, Bruce_Almty said:

Ray Lewis lead the Ravens to a Super Bowl triumph, Joe Flacco was later handed the reigns.

LMAO!  Ray Ray was a shell of his former self and on his "last ride". To be frank that's what he did, came along for the ride. 

Ray and Ed were so bad that the Ravens made the playoffs 4 of the last 5 years since they left. Those goal line stance was terrible in 2012. Man, I glade their gone. Sarcasm at it finest.

What did they have to do with that goal line stance?

Also, what exactly did Ed Reed do once he left again?

[Militant X 1]

3 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

What did they have to do with that goal line stance?

Also, what exactly did Ed Reed do once he left again?

It's not about what Ed Reed did once he left the Ravens, it's really about what has a "Joe Flacco-led" Ravens team done since he's been handed the reigns?