Prediction vs preference poll

[rossihunter2]

23 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Those of you who question cam robinson as a tackle need to watch this. If you can. Its a great breakdown

yes so he's great vs a guy who only threatened his outside (which meant he could close the space and arc of garret's edge rush and a guy who tries to athletically overwhelm him - watch him the week after vs derek barnett and watch him get destroyed - you cant just take the best tape and say look this guy's a great tackle - he's brilliant in small areas without threat to his inside which is why i think he projects better on the interior but vs any rusher with polish or with moves he will struggle or at least initially at tackle will maybe be a liability - there's no way cam at tackle is the BPA - he's probably not the best tackle in the draft - i think he's the best lineman in the draft but he's not the best tackle

[ravensnation5220]

Just now, rossihunter2 said:

yes so he's great vs a guy who only threatened his outside (which meant he could close the space and arc of garret's edge rush and a guy who tries to athletically overwhelm him - watch him the week after vs derek barnett and watch him get destroyed - you cant just take the best tape and say look this guy's a great tackle - he's brilliant in small areas without threat to his inside which is why i think he projects better on the interior but vs any rusher with polish or with moves he will struggle or at least initially at tackle will maybe be a liability - there's no way cam at tackle is the BPA - he's probably not the best tackle in the draft - i think he's the best lineman in the draft but he's not the best tackle

Id be drafting him based on him being the best lineman. I understand the fact of what your saying, barnett toyed with him all game and i think thats more of a positive to barnett than it is a negative for cam, but we can always chip the pass rusher if we feel cam cant handle him. Its easier to put a TE or a RB by the right tackle with out being predictable

Also thats really the only game where cam was really taken advantage of in his 3 years at bama. They also had a weird scheme run in that game and pretty much gave barnett the outside all game.

I wouldnt want to pick cam and just plug him in at RT but rather let him compete for the spot and have a true option of putting the 5 best guys on the feild. And if that means putting him at LG and lewis at RT then thats what it is. However if theres any injury we have the luxury to move cam to that spot and he will do the job just fine. Not sure you can say that about anyone else in this class or on our team for that matter, we just dont have that kind of depth. 

[ravensnation5220]

@rossihunter2 i wish draftbreakdown had the 2015 tape of cam vs tennessee so we can compare both games

[Italian Raven]

We just can't get a game where two prospects face each others and claim the one having the better day is the better prospect. If it was that easy then Shaq Lawson would be hands down more valuable than Tunsil since the guy obliterated our LT one year ago. I got fooled by such a 1 on 1 match up and made a big deal off it. I think we have to evaluate the prospects' traits more than the singolar performance.

Edited April 14 by Italian Raven

[hn68wb4]

1 hour ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Those of you who question cam robinson as a tackle need to watch this. If you can. Its a great breakdown

C'mon man, here we're talking about one guy breaking down one game. I know you watch Voch Lombardi, I just looked it up and he also made a video about Cam that breaks down multiple games (50 mins vs. this one that's just one game and a 10 minute video) and he ends up echoing the same things I said in the other thread about him. I can't tell the future obviously, but we can't just act as if this one video makes a world of difference, when i watch Cam I come away with a very different opinion and I'm not the only one that thinks the guy should be a guard at the next level, and you're not the only one that thinks he'll be a tackle at the next level, one guy's opinion of one game doesn't really alter my opinion at all. All players have good games and all players have bad games, in this one Cam had a good game, against Tenn this year he had a very, very bad game against Barnett, you can't form an opinion of a player based on one game. That's basically the crux of my opinion of Thomas and why I don't think he should go top 10, people are judging him based entirely on his UNC game, every other game there was just a different player - and that happens to all players, watch one tape and you will come away loving or hating anyone.

Edited April 15 by hn68wb4

[Edgar]

1 hour ago, ravensnation5220 said:

@rossihunter2 i wish draftbreakdown had the 2015 tape of cam vs tennessee so we can compare both games

It's on you tube. As I recall there is no matchup. Barnett plays left end for most of the game.

 

[ravensnation5220]

1 hour ago, hn68wb4 said:

C'mon man, here we're talking about one guy breaking down one game. I know you watch Voch Lombardi, I just looked it up and he also made a video about Cam that breaks down multiple games (50 mins vs. this one that's just one game and a 10 minute video) and he ends up echoing the same things I said in the other thread about him. I can't tell the future obviously, but we can't just act as if this one video makes a world of difference, when i watch Cam I come away with a very different opinion and I'm not the only one that thinks the guy should be a guard at the next level, and you're not the only one that thinks he'll be a tackle at the next level, one guy's opinion of one game doesn't really alter my opinion at all. All players have good games and all players have bad games, in this one Cam had a good game, against Tenn this year he had a very, very bad game against Barnett, you can't form an opinion of a player based on one game. That's basically the crux of my opinion of Thomas and why I don't think he should go top 10, people are judging him based entirely on his UNC game, every other game there was just a different player - and that happens to all players, watch one tape and you will come away loving or hating anyone.

I didnt mean to come off saying this one game proves everything but it gives you other angles and gives you a good idea of his strengths abd weaknesses. I was just trying to show that he has traits  that can translate to being a tackle at the next level, which i think he can. We can agree to disagree on that. Thats fune with me no harm in disagreeing

[rossihunter2]

3 hours ago, Italian Raven said:

We just can't get a game where two prospects face each others and claim the one having the better day is the better prospect. If it was that easy then Shaq Lawson would be hands down more valuable than Tunsil since the guy obliterated our LT one year ago. I got fooled by such a 1 on 1 match up and made a big deal off it. I think we have to evaluate the prospects' traits more than the singolar performance.

Or Chris Moore over Eli apple

[rossihunter2]

4 hours ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Id be drafting him based on him being the best lineman. I understand the fact of what your saying, barnett toyed with him all game and i think thats more of a positive to barnett than it is a negative for cam, but we can always chip the pass rusher if we feel cam cant handle him. Its easier to put a TE or a RB by the right tackle with out being predictable

Also thats really the only game where cam was really taken advantage of in his 3 years at bama. They also had a weird scheme run in that game and pretty much gave barnett the outside all game.

I wouldnt want to pick cam and just plug him in at RT but rather let him compete for the spot and have a true option of putting the 5 best guys on the feild. And if that means putting him at LG and lewis at RT then thats what it is. However if theres any injury we have the luxury to move cam to that spot and he will do the job just fine. Not sure you can say that about anyone else in this class or on our team for that matter, we just dont have that kind of depth. 

The way you talk about using the pick it just makes it seem to me less likely that we pick him - you want Day 1 starters in round 1 and often have a plan in place for them from the beginning - cam is a guy, as you describe, who could flummox both of those aspects

also... I just want to make sure I'm clear, I do like cam Robinson and think he's the best olineman in this class but I just can't get behind the pick at this point unless he's coming in to play guard and even then I'd be disappointed given the talent we'd have to pass on to pick him - I'd feel better about cam if we traded back and got him but at 16 I'd be disappointed even as I started waxing lyrical about what a great pick he is

[JoeyFlex5]

2 hours ago, rossihunter2 said:

The way you talk about using the pick it just makes it seem to me less likely that we pick him - you want Day 1 starters in round 1 and often have a plan in place for them from the beginning - cam is a guy, as you describe, who could flummox both of those aspects

also... I just want to make sure I'm clear, I do like cam Robinson and think he's the best olineman in this class but I just can't get behind the pick at this point unless he's coming in to play guard and even then I'd be disappointed given the talent we'd have to pass on to pick him - I'd feel better about cam if we traded back and got him but at 16 I'd be disappointed even as I started waxing lyrical about what a great pick he is

do you think the cowboys regret passing on mosley for martin? 

martin is a top 3 guard in the league. robinson and feeney are the only prospects ive seen that i believe can step into that same caliber, but robinson is absolutely without question a more powerful mauling style guard.

[rossihunter2]

8 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

do you think the cowboys regret passing on mosley for martin? 

martin is a top 3 guard in the league. robinson and feeney are the only prospects ive seen that i believe can step into that same caliber, but robinson is absolutely without question a more powerful mauling style guard.

No I don't think they do at all - my point is not that I don't think the practice works just that I don't think the pick is going to be a right tackle - I think/hope that if we do pickup cam at 16 that we are going to use him at guard but that there will likely be better players available at other positions 

[arnie_uk]

Would like to change mine. 

Preference davis

Prediction huge trade back and pick a cb

[PurpleHorseman]

On 4/14/2017 at 7:44 PM, Italian Raven said:

We just can't get a game where two prospects face each others and claim the one having the better day is the better prospect. If it was that easy then Shaq Lawson would be hands down more valuable than Tunsil since the guy obliterated our LT one year ago. I got fooled by such a 1 on 1 match up and made a big deal off it. I think we have to evaluate the prospects' traits more than the singolar performance.

Who obliterated our Left Tackle one year ago?  I agree on evaluating traits over performance. Especially with tackles coaching in college being terrible. Not many tackles can play as a rookie. If Barnett and Cam play couple yrs later it could be a different game. Many tackles are backups while needing coaching refinement and  often needing to get stronger. David Baktarhi is an example.

[rossihunter2]

8 minutes ago, PurpleHorseman said:

Who obliterated our Left Tackle one year ago?  I agree on evaluating traits over performance. Especially with tackles coaching in college being terrible. Not many tackles can play as a rookie. If Barnett and Cam play couple yrs later it could be a different game. Many tackles are backups while needing coaching refinement and  often needing to get stronger. David Baktarhi is an example.

david bakhtiari was a 4th round pick

[Italian Raven]

1 hour ago, PurpleHorseman said:

Who obliterated our Left Tackle one year ago?  I agree on evaluating traits over performance. Especially with tackles coaching in college being terrible. Not many tackles can play as a rookie. If Barnett and Cam play couple yrs later it could be a different game. Many tackles are backups while needing coaching refinement and  often needing to get stronger. David Baktarhi is an example.

Obliterated is probably over exaggerating it but yes, I've just re-watched the tape and S.Lawson put up 6-7 pressure and a few sacks against Ronnie (idk why I wrote Tunsil in the precedent post. I need to get sober come draft day). While the DE won his battle (and definitely caught my attention thanks to his hands work and a few nice set up spins) you can see he really lacks motor, has no counter moves, is not a bender and is definitely not worth a top 10 pick.