Prediction vs preference poll

[RavensFanMania]

On 4/2/2017 at 3:06 AM, PurpleHorseman said:

I  would like Cam Robinson as well. He has a lot of coaching up to do. But much of his problems is technique that is easy to fix. Some of his deficiencies will take many reps in practice to fix. But enough of his technique could be upgraded to play RT week one and do an ok job while steadily getting better.

Lewis I believe could play RT eventually and play respectable. However I do agree with Harbaugh that Lewis is going to be a pro bowl caliber guard. Lewis is one of top breakout candidates. I'm not sure how old Lewis is. But maybe he is younger than thought? Harbaugh said he grew and is bigger and stronger. And has an intense desire to be great. And promised to be a pro bowl level guard. He looked bigger in that article pic. Young and  Definitely looks like he is not done growing yet. Lewis really understands blocking positioning and angles very natural.

I like Lamp better but Cam has upside. He could be an all pro guard or even Tackle once he irons out his flaws. He is so naturally strong. And he has the balance to better his movement skills. Stanley Lewis and Cam are some really good building blocks. When Cam plays Barnett in the NFL. He will yield a different result when his technique catches up to Barnett's.

Lamp is one of my favorite players in the draft.  This guy is going to be a stud and is extremely versatile.  He can play every position along the line and may even be our future center.  He isn't the player I picked in this poll, but he's definitely up there with one of my favorites.

Edited April 10 by RavensFanMania

[Italian Raven]

2 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Did you listen to it? I wanted to but haven't had a chance

I did and he sounded a tad more interested to what Voch had to say than to those Combine questions. Sure, the tone was very confidential and informal as Voxh talked to him as a fan rather than a possible employer, but this kind of spelled that picture I had of him being very coy.

One thing I would like to see more often tho is players being a little more self aware of which area of their game they must improve the most. McDowell answered 'I really don't know man' when asked about why lots of media poundits are sleeping on him. Well, I would have some ideas. Not abig deal anyways, and as Rmw says this is the slowest moment of the pre draft process.. I won't try to read too much into this stuff

[rmw10]

10 minutes ago, Italian Raven said:

I did and he sounded a tad more interested to what Voch had to say than to those Combine questions. Sure, the tone was very confidential and informal as Voxh talked to him as a fan rather than a possible employer, but this kind of spelled that picture I had of him being very coy.

One thing I would like to see more often tho is players being a little more self aware of which area of their game they must improve the most. McDowell answered 'I really don't know man' when asked about why lots of media poundits are sleeping on him. Well, I would have some ideas. Not abig deal anyways, and as Rmw says this is the slowest moment of the pre draft process.. I won't try to read too much into this stuff

Yep.  After months of evaluation, this is typically the time when people start to overthink things and try to find hints and clues that don't exist.  Happens every single year.

[ravensnation5220]

42 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I think my bigger issue is that he's fall under the typical "group think" thing we have around here.  One person starts to like a player and suddenly, tons of other people seem to join in.

Lol i may have started that.....my bad lol

[Rav'n Maniac]

My preference would be 1a Davis or 1b Williams but, I feel both will be gone before we come up. I could see two of the Bears, Jets, Cards, Bengals or the Browns at 12 snatching them up. With this in mind, I think we will take the best available edge/olb at 16.

[rmw10]

4 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Lol i may have started that.....my bad lol

It's a common problem around here.  I mean, there was a large group at one point last year that would chastise you like crazy if you didn't think Treadwell was worth pick 6, and it all started with 1 person saying he was worth it.  It really separates those that watch the tape and those that don't.

[ravensnation5220]

15 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

It's a common problem around here.  I mean, there was a large group at one point last year that would chastise you like crazy if you didn't think Treadwell was worth pick 6, and it all started with 1 person saying he was worth it.  It really separates those that watch the tape and those that don't.

Well in all fairness the 3 that i know are on the mcdowell bandwagon atm is @JoeyFlex5 @rossihunter2 and me, and we all watch the tape. And maliks tape does not lie

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

3 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Well in all fairness the 3 that i know are on the mcdowell bandwagon atm is @JoeyFlex5 @rossihunter2 and me, and we all watch the tape. And maliks tape does not lie

But it begs the question... did you just watch the tape for the first time in the last week? And if not, why all-the-sudden is he a darling for pick 16?

The tape has been the tape since the season ended.

If you just watched for the first time on someones suggestion, then ok. But if not, what changed?

Edited April 10 by BOLDnPurPnBlacK

[ravensnation5220]

1 minute ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

But it begs the question... did you just watch the tape for the first time in the last week? And if not, why all-the-sudden is he a darling for pick 16?

The tape has been the tape since the season ended.

I guess i fell victim to the questions about character and lack of production. Also looking at draft pundits and their opinions on him and where hes projected in mock drafts made me dismiss him as a target for us. Sometimes you look too deep into a prospect and forget about the tape and need to look back at it. Its a common theme to be honest

Edited April 10 by ravensnation5220

[JoeyFlex5]

2 hours ago, rmw10 said:

Why is McDowell the hot name all of a sudden?  I get we traded Timmy but I wouldn't read into things too much.  Supremely talented player but a ton of question marks that come along with him.  I would not be considering him at 16 at this point.

I'll admit voch made me look into him a lot more. He's probably the only person who can really sway me but that's because his analysis comes with film, when he's breaking a player down there's no way to really dispute it because the evidence is there. I don't like his fascination with speed though. he definitely played a part in me changing my mind, and the Jernigan trade made me really hop on the bandwagon.

And also sometimes you miss things like triple teams and subtle role changes and you wonder why there's a long stretch of non-impact on film sometimes another set of eyes helps point out little stuff like that

Edited April 10 by JoeyFlex5

[rossihunter2]

40 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

But it begs the question... did you just watch the tape for the first time in the last week? And if not, why all-the-sudden is he a darling for pick 16?

The tape has been the tape since the season ended.

If you just watched for the first time on someones suggestion, then ok. But if not, what changed?

i've always liked mcdowell's film - but he dropped significantly on my board after the combine reports - i still dont know how to feel about those maturity issues but I had him as a top 10 talent but also at a position we really didnt have any room at (until getting rid of timmy)

so this resurgence in public outcry for me is a combination of ravensnation bringing him back up, going back to the tape and getting all excited again, timmy jernigan leaving a potential hole where previously there was a logjam, reassessing the potential character concerns - for me i've always been hot on mcdowell with the proviso that i trust the front office to get to the bottom of the maturity/passion problems - if he's not motivated then he won't be here - but if he is then i'd love to have him in baltimore even at pick 16...

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

22 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I'll admit voch made me look into him a lot more. He's probably the only person who can really sway me but that's because his analysis comes with film, when he's breaking a player down there's no way to really dispute it because the evidence is there. I don't like his fascination with speed though. he definitely played a part in me changing my mind, and the Jernigan trade made me really hop on the bandwagon.

And also sometimes you miss things like triple teams and subtle role changes and you wonder why there's a long stretch of non-impact on film sometimes another set of eyes helps point out little stuff like that

 

2 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

i've always liked mcdowell's film - but he dropped significantly on my board after the combine reports - i still dont know how to feel about those maturity issues but I had him as a top 10 talent but also at a position we really didnt have any room at (until getting rid of timmy)

so this resurgence in public outcry for me is a combination of ravensnation bringing him back up, going back to the tape and getting all excited again, timmy jernigan leaving a potential hole where previously there was a logjam, reassessing the potential character concerns - for me i've always been hot on mcdowell with the proviso that i trust the front office to get to the bottom of the maturity/passion problems - if he's not motivated then he won't be here - but if he is then i'd love to have him in baltimore even at pick 16...

So if the Timmy trade affected your stance... are you maybe doing your evaluations more needs based than originally thought?

I get theres an aspect of need that we all consciously or subconsciously impart on prospects; but if its truly BPA, where need only comes into play for tiebreakers and things of that nature... how does McDowell just now enter the convo? Jernigan was always going to be gone next season, so i guess i just dont understand how that suddenly opens the eyes.

I appreciate the honesty @JoeyFlex5 on Voch playing a big part... i sensed it was, and we all have our guys we're partial to, trust more, or have great influence. And a guy who brings tape along is always better... but you can still focus on/show the positives and choose to ignore the stretches of poor play.

 

Im trusting my own eyes, and original opinion on the guy... in that if you could somehow get his best all the time you wouldnt even have a shot at selecting him at 16; but there's also a very real reason that he will be. And i just cant get behind that volatility at 16, especially with the confidence that 1-2 other players i expect to be there.

In an almost worst case scenario... where we're looking at him, John Ross, OL, CB, etc... without trading back he wouldnt be the worst of the those options for sure. But im not walking away hyped about any of them.

[rossihunter2]

3 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

 

So if the Timmy trade affected your stance... are you maybe doing your evaluations more needs based than originally thought?

I get theres an aspect of need that we all consciously or subconsciously impart on prospects; but if its truly BPA, where need only comes into play for tiebreakers and things of that nature... how does McDowell just now enter the convo? Jernigan was always going to be gone next season, so i guess i just dont understand how that suddenly opens the eyes.

I appreciate the honesty @JoeyFlex5 on Voch playing a big part... i sensed it was, and we all have our guys we're partial to, trust more, or have great influence. And a guy who brings tape along is always better... but you can still focus on/show the positives and choose to ignore the stretches of poor play.

 

Im trusting my own eyes, and original opinion on the guy... in that if you could somehow get his best all the time you wouldnt even have a shot at selecting him at 16; but there's also a very real reason that he will be. And i just cant get behind that volatility at 16, especially with the confidence that 1-2 other players i expect to be there.

In an almost worst case scenario... where we're looking at him, John Ross, OL, CB, etc... without trading back he wouldnt be the worst of the those options for sure. But im not walking away hyped about any of them.

in terms of the need stuff it was slightly different in that much like qbs the ability to get him on the field would have been difficult - obviously its slightly different but i dropped him because of need rather than reached on others if that makes sense... the thing that made me drop him the most i think was the re-signing of brandon williams - we dont draft for need but i guess i assumed that we also wouldnt stuff another defensive lineman into the mix given how packed the line was which is why it moved him back up a bit when timmy left...

i suppose given that i project mcdowell as a 3/5tech i should have not moved him at all because our starting spot at defensive end has essentially always been open this whole offseason - but i feel like it's fair having him in the top 15 on the board - as long as the character concerns are squared away... that is the thing i dont know how to evaluate because until we know why the combine interviews were so terrible it's hard to say if and/or why there's a problem

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

4 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

in terms of the need stuff it was slightly different in that much like qbs the ability to get him on the field would have been difficult - obviously its slightly different but i dropped him because of need rather than reached on others if that makes sense... the thing that made me drop him the most i think was the re-signing of brandon williams - we dont draft for need but i guess i assumed that we also wouldnt stuff another defensive lineman into the mix given how packed the line was which is why it moved him back up a bit when timmy left...

i suppose given that i project mcdowell as a 3/5tech i should have not moved him at all because our starting spot at defensive end has essentially always been open this whole offseason - but i feel like it's fair having him in the top 15 on the board - as long as the character concerns are squared away... that is the thing i dont know how to evaluate because until we know why the combine interviews were so terrible it's hard to say if and/or why there's a problem

Thats kind of where i was going with it.... Urban/Kaufusi arent exactly the most convincing options at 5T, and Jernigan was always gone at 3T; and youre never really drafting especially in the 1st rd for day 1 anyways.... so his best two positions are almost immediate needs.

So the idea of not having him as a result of log jam, either seemed like an excuse or failing to accept the reality of the DL.

[rossihunter2]

2 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Thats kind of where i was going with it.... Urban/Kaufusi arent exactly the most convincing options at 5T, and Jernigan was always gone at 3T; and youre never really drafting especially in the 1st rd for day 1 anyways.... so his best two positions are almost immediate needs.

So the idea of not having him as a result of log jam, either seemed like an excuse or failing to accept the reality of the DL.

oh ill admit to that all day lol - i was one of the bigger fans of timmy jernigan and probably had more hope than most about brent urban (though kaufusi wasnt a guy i liked so much during the draft process)

Edited April 10 by rossihunter2

[arnie_uk]

No surprise Rossi is amongst the new flavour of the month lol

[52520Andrew]

9 hours ago, arnie_uk said:

Bad. He's a trade up target from the second or a huge drop back target from the first. Not where we draft at all in my eyes

Yeah not the biggest fan of him here either, don't see him as a Tackle

[ravensnation5220]

Im surprised nobody has voted for ross on preference. Tbh i kinda like him. Wouldnt mind him here if the board falls that way

[RaineV1]

1 minute ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Im surprised nobody has voted for ross on preference. Tbh i kinda like him. Wouldnt mind him here if the board falls that way

I just think Mike Williams or Barnett would be better picks for us if they're available, but Ross certainly wouldn't be a bad one.

[JoeyFlex5]

2 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

 

So if the Timmy trade affected your stance... are you maybe doing your evaluations more needs based than originally thought?

I get theres an aspect of need that we all consciously or subconsciously impart on prospects; but if its truly BPA, where need only comes into play for tiebreakers and things of that nature... how does McDowell just now enter the convo? Jernigan was always going to be gone next season, so i guess i just dont understand how that suddenly opens the eyes.

I appreciate the honesty @JoeyFlex5 on Voch playing a big part... i sensed it was, and we all have our guys we're partial to, trust more, or have great influence. And a guy who brings tape along is always better... but you can still focus on/show the positives and choose to ignore the stretches of poor play.

 

Im trusting my own eyes, and original opinion on the guy... in that if you could somehow get his best all the time you wouldnt even have a shot at selecting him at 16; but there's also a very real reason that he will be. And i just cant get behind that volatility at 16, especially with the confidence that 1-2 other players i expect to be there.

In an almost worst case scenario... where we're looking at him, John Ross, OL, CB, etc... without trading back he wouldnt be the worst of the those options for sure. But im not walking away hyped about any of them.

Need definitely affects my stance. I'm less inclined to watch players at a position we shouldn't need, and when I start seeing mocks projecting a DT when we shouldn't need one I'll go in and almost bitterly watch a prospect, searching for flaws and failed plays so I can write them off lol. 

I was a big cj Mosley fan but with us signing Daryl smith long term and drafting Arthur brown I was looking for reasons to not like him leading up to the draft lol, and I was lukewarm on HHCD coming out but convinced myself he was a better prospect than Mosley simply because we needed a safety. 

So yes, Im an offender of projecting certain feelings on players based on the ravens current situation

[ravensnation5220]

34 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

I just think Mike Williams or Barnett would be better picks for us if they're available, but Ross certainly wouldn't be a bad one.

Ya i agree. Just still surprusing that out of 52 poeple he didnt get a preference vote

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

8 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Need definitely affects my stance. I'm less inclined to watch players at a position we shouldn't need, and when I start seeing mocks projecting a DT when we shouldn't need one I'll go in and almost bitterly watch a prospect, searching for flaws and failed plays so I can write them off lol. 

I was a big cj Mosley fan but with us signing Daryl smith long term and drafting Arthur brown I was looking for reasons to not like him leading up to the draft lol, and I was lukewarm on HHCD coming out but convinced myself he was a better prospect than Mosley simply because we needed a safety. 

So yes, Im an offender of projecting certain feelings on players based on the ravens current situation

i hear ya, i think we all do whether we admit it or not. of course theres the instances where a player is just that good like Adams/Hooker in this draft, where we're currently set but you just cant deny the ability nor do i think anyone would complain about having them.

But, even before the Jernigan trade we didnt have a surefire starter at DE, and it was pretty well understood that this would have been Jernigan's last year anyways.... at least once we re-signed BWill. From that point on a pass rushing DT/DE could easily have been argued as a need; and if not at least not a position where we are truly set where you avoid taking the BPA just bc hes a 3T/5T guy.

 

 

[JoeyFlex5]

10 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

i hear ya, i think we all do whether we admit it or not. of course theres the instances where a player is just that good like Adams/Hooker in this draft, where we're currently set but you just cant deny the ability nor do i think anyone would complain about having them.

But, even before the Jernigan trade we didnt have a surefire starter at DE, and it was pretty well understood that this would have been Jernigan's last year anyways.... at least once we re-signed BWill. From that point on a pass rushing DT/DE could easily have been argued as a need; and if not at least not a position where we are truly set where you avoid taking the BPA just bc hes a 3T/5T guy.

 

 

I always have faith in our DL though, they've never given me a reason not to. I always wanted either hooker or Adams because I was watching these guys long before we signed Jefferson and I looked at our safety tandem as being one man short of elite and a future need anyway with weddle being up there. More so than DL just because we always produce talent there

[PurpleHorseman]

25 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Need definitely affects my stance. I'm less inclined to watch players at a position we shouldn't need, and when I start seeing mocks projecting a DT when we shouldn't need one I'll go in and almost bitterly watch a prospect, searching for flaws and failed plays so I can write them off lol. 

I was a big cj Mosley fan but with us signing Daryl smith long term and drafting Arthur brown I was looking for reasons to not like him leading up to the draft lol, and I was lukewarm on HHCD coming out but convinced myself he was a better prospect than Mosley simply because we needed a safety. 

So yes, Im an offender of projecting certain feelings on players based on the ravens current situation

I actually wanted CJ Mosley at that pick. I like 3 down Linebackers that can hit a runner on one play then cover a Zone 20 yards on the next like an extra safety. That skillset is very undervalued. It is as valuable as a good edge rusher. As much as I favor an elite offensive line. Ravens should pick Foster if he is available at pick 16.

[Jonah DeVito]

On 4/9/2017 at 9:03 AM, BmoreBird22 said:

I once heard teams ask REALLY weird questions. Like, a Giants representative once asked, "Would you rather kill someone with a knife, gun, or your hands?"

Definitely a gun 

[Jonah DeVito]

7 hours ago, rmw10 said:

Why is McDowell the hot name all of a sudden?  I get we traded Timmy but I wouldn't read into things too much.  Supremely talented player but a ton of question marks that come along with him.  I would not be considering him at 16 at this point.

I think McDowell is a great talent, but he's one of those guys I just don't feel safe with at 16. I'm not really super interested in taking a Dlineman in the first to begin with. Even with Timmy gone I don't feel like it's an early round need. 

Edited April 10 by Jonah DeVito

[Rav'n Maniac]

3 hours ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Im surprised nobody has voted for ross on preference. Tbh i kinda like him. Wouldnt mind him here if the board falls that way

I'm not a fan of Ross, especially not at 16. When I look at his film, I see glimpses of Taylor, Clayton or Johnson. 3 highly ranked WR;s in the same mold that we wasted picks on.  At some point, the team needs to make better WR selections in the higher rounds imo.

[ravensnation5220]

20 minutes ago, Rav'n Maniac said:

I'm not a fan of Ross, especially not at 16. When I look at his film, I see glimpses of Taylor, Clayton or Johnson. 3 highly ranked WR;s in the same mold that we wasted picks on.  At some point, the team needs to make better WR selections in the higher rounds imo.

Idk when i see ross' tape i see a more refined desean jackson. The only thing i worry about is his durability. 

[arnie_uk]

52 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Idk when i see ross' tape i see a more refined desean jackson. The only thing i worry about is his durability. 

I think Jacksons a lazy comparison just because they are both fast. He offers a lot more than him imo.

Trade back pick up and extra 3rd and take him and id be very happy

[jboy19]

At this point, I only really want Tim Williams, Mike Williams, Derek Barnett, Haason Reddick or Forrest Lamp. I could live with most others, but there's like 3 guys I'd start throwing stuff over if the Ravens pick them up. 

Edited April 10 by jboy19