First Round Reaches

[PurpleHorseman]

What are some thought about Duane Smoot at pick No.16? Woops that should be comp pick 90's

Edited March 28 by PurpleHorseman

[RavensDieHard21]

10 minutes ago, PurpleHorseman said:

I like Ross as well. He is going to be able to separate in the NFL at intermediate range. I would be excited about potential

I know most on here want a jump ball guy that resembles what we had with Boldin and I do too. But I think Williams will be long gone and JuJu could be a great option in round two. 

Despite Perriman's and Wallace's speed, they still don't always get open. We need a shift slot receiver that can get open quick with Flacco under duress, which is where Ross could become a crazy explosive security blanket. Imagine having him in the slot with Wallace and Perriman on the outside. If Ross got too much attention in the middle we would have 1 on 1 on the outside all day long. 

[RavensDieHard21]

12 minutes ago, PurpleHorseman said:

What are some thought about Duane Smoot at pick No.16?

Smoot is not really even top 10 in his own positional group. He is pegged as a likely 3rd rounder who will likely go to a 4-3 defense. 

[ravensnation5220]

4 hours ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

Eaten alive might be a little over the top🙄 lol he does need to improve in that area, but he does have solid off coverage ability and mirrors his receivers quite well without groping them like a lot of other CBs in this class do--e.g., Tre White, Tabor, and Tankersley. 

My only real concern outside of his jam is his lackadaisical approach to getting off blocks and making tackles. 

I think he will struggle early. He gives up way too much separation and in the NFL that won't fly. He was able to recover in college but the timing in the NFL Wil make him struggle. He's not very technically sound. More of a project to me. I wouldn't want him to have too much playing time early

[Italian Raven]

5 hours ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

Despite Perriman's and Wallace's speed, they still don't always get open. We need a shift slot receiver that can get open quick with Flacco under duress, which is where Ross could become a crazy explosive security blanket. Imagine having him in the slot with Wallace and Perriman on the outside. If Ross got too much attention in the middle we would have 1 on 1 on the outside all day long. 

Then why not Cupp in the 2nd or Switzer in the late 3rd for example? Isn't that better value while you're adding a great pass rusher or potential star corner with the first rounder? 

I really can't buy this post combine Ross hype. 

[Ravenskid52752]

12 minutes ago, Italian Raven said:

Then why not Cupp in the 2nd or Switzer in the late 3rd for example? Isn't that better value while you're adding a great pass rusher or potential star corner with the first rounder? 

I really can't buy this post combine Ross hype. 

Well it's not post combine hype he's a big play waiting to happen from anywhere on  the field. There is this misconception about him that he's just a speedy guy where he can actually run all the routes in a route tree look at the film you see that.

[PurpleHorseman]

18 minutes ago, Italian Raven said:

Then why not Cupp in the 2nd or Switzer in the late 3rd for example? Isn't that better value while you're adding a great pass rusher or potential star corner with the first rounder? 

I really can't buy this post combine Ross hype. 

I like artavius steward round3

[RavensDieHard21]

12 minutes ago, Ravenskid52752 said:

Well it's not post combine hype he's a big play waiting to happen from anywhere on  the field. There is this misconception about him that he's just a speedy guy where he can actually run all the routes in a route tree look at the film you see that.

Exactly! Thank you lol. The guy is a legit play maker and he will kill people in space at the next level. 

[rossihunter2]

6 hours ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

I know most on here want a jump ball guy that resembles what we had with Boldin and I do too. But I think Williams will be long gone and JuJu could be a great option in round two. 

Despite Perriman's and Wallace's speed, they still don't always get open. We need a shift slot receiver that can get open quick with Flacco under duress, which is where Ross could become a crazy explosive security blanket. Imagine having him in the slot with Wallace and Perriman on the outside. If Ross got too much attention in the middle we would have 1 on 1 on the outside all day long. 

Ok so the reasons I don't like john Ross at 16 are these: 

1) minus his speed he is not the best at anything in this receiver corps - mike Williams is better with contested catches, Corey Davis is much better at route running and extending his body, juju smith is better at high pointing the ball, Dede Westbrook is a better pure deep threat, zay jones has better hands and Ross is smaller than all of the above etc. etc. John Ross's only elite quality is his deep speed which isn't enough at 16 - this is not say he's bad or even average at the above things but given the elite speed the Ravens possess already - he doesn't add elite qualities at other skills in the corps - he'd be a good trade back option but the quality of alternatives at 16 will be much higher

2) the injuries really are an issue - not just because of his history but because of his frame - he's not a big receiver even if he occasionally does play beyond his size - he will take much more wear and tear on his smaller frame than other available receivers in this draft which makes him unreliable or at least a risk which is not really something the Ravens can afford at receiver given perriman, campanaro, Pitta, Watson and maxx Williams injury issues and Boyle and Waller's suspension history

3) the need at receiver, while large, is nowhere near as high as edge rusher, corner, offensive lineman - I know the Ravens always trust the board and go BPA at every pick but a significant part of the formula for creating the board includes need

n.b. Just to address the hype and play-speed criticism, id like to say that I disagree that Ross hype is purely based on the combine because the combine results, while extraordinary, were never out of the realm of possibility because he really does look that quick on film, and the play-speed issue - I don't see that when I watch his film at all - he always looks like the fastest guy on the field by a distance

and yet given all this, I'd still hate the pick at 16 because I don't think there any situation where he's the best player available - to dismiss him as a prospect is spiteful and stupid and he may well blow up the league at another club but I don't like the to at the Ravens - there's a reason I have him in the 20s on my big board and part of that is the Ravens-centric aspect of it - he may well be higher on other teams' board - and with good reason - he just doesn't make sense either in terms of fit or value with the Ravens at 16

[PurpleHorseman]

It would be very ideal to land a top shelf edge rusher, offensive lineman, top end no.2 borderline no.1 receiver or better and a defensive back. Ravens would be back in Super Bowl picture.

Regardless who those players are. I would like Stewart/Westbrook round 2-3. Westbrook could be steal of the draft! I would like Ross in round1 as well. He is a football player that happens to have blazing speed. He can get open intermediate.

Edited March 29 by PurpleHorseman

[raven94]

1 hour ago, PurpleHorseman said:

It would be very ideal to land a top shelf edge rusher, offensive lineman, top end no.2 borderline no.1 receiver or better and a defensive back. Ravens would be back in Super Bowl picture.

Regardless who those players are. I would like Stewart/Westbrook round 2-3. Westbrook could be steal of the draft! I would like Ross in round1 as well. He is a football player that happens to have blazing speed. He can get open intermediate.

Stewart is an underrated playmaker. He's got good footwork with and without the ball, he's got some good meat on him which means he does great with YAC because it's hard to just bring him down with one guy, he's got a little make you miss to him as well. He does great at all 3 levels as far as tracking and catching, and he'll make the contested catch as well. He ran a 4.49 which is good enough for me, but not elite, and to top it all off he plays with an attitude and a mean streak. I love him as a prospect. He deserves to be a 2nd or a 3rd round pick. I always throw him to us in the 4th though. 

[JoeyFlex5]

2 hours ago, Ravenskid52752 said:

Well it's not post combine hype he's a big play waiting to happen from anywhere on  the field. There is this misconception about him that he's just a speedy guy where he can actually run all the routes in a route tree look at the film you see that.

He's another breadbasket style catcher, that's why I'm not a huge fan. 

[ravensnation5220]

What's the point of even drafting a receiver early. I honestly don't like it unless you are sure they are going to be all pros. I don't see that zero bust factor with any of the top 3. Plus you can find receivers anywhere nowadays. Only pass catcher I'd spend the 16th pick on is oj Howard. 

[BmoreBird22]

Just now, ravensnation5220 said:

What's the point of even drafting a receiver early. I honestly don't like it unless you are sure they are going to be all pros. I don't see that zero bust factor with any of the top 3. Plus you can find receivers anywhere nowadays. Only pass catcher I'd spend the 16th pick on is oj Howard. 

The Ravens haven't figured this out in their entire existence...

[ravensnation5220]

5 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

The Ravens haven't figured this out in their entire existence...

So why bother trying so hard. They've done a good enough job with veterans and free agents. Why waste a draft pick. I mean when was the last time a team won a super bowl with an elite receiver who actually contributed in the win lol. I honestly can't recall. 

Lol Jerry rice? Michael Irvin? I don't think any elite receivers in this generation have a ring let alone been to one. All they do is cause a distraction to their team. 

It's more like icing on the cake. An unnecessary luxury 

Edited March 29 by ravensnation5220

[raven94]

39 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

What's the point of even drafting a receiver early. I honestly don't like it unless you are sure they are going to be all pros. I don't see that zero bust factor with any of the top 3. Plus you can find receivers anywhere nowadays. Only pass catcher I'd spend the 16th pick on is oj Howard. 

Agreed, plus I think guys like Cooper Kupp, Ardarius Stewart, Juju, and Chris Godwin are all exactly what we need. They're not super freaky athletes but they're all really skilled at their craft, which makes them better than a great athlete with no skill. Joe needs someone with good hands who is a master of the short and intermediate routes

[PurpleHorseman]

2 hours ago, ravensnation5220 said:

So why bother trying so hard. They've done a good enough job with veterans and free agents. Why waste a draft pick. I mean when was the last time a team won a super bowl with an elite receiver who actually contributed in the win lol. I honestly can't recall. 

Lol Jerry rice? Michael Irvin? I don't think any elite receivers in this generation have a ring let alone been to one. All they do is cause a distraction to their team. 

It's more like icing on the cake. An unnecessary luxury 

 

1 hour ago, raven94 said:

Agreed, plus I think guys like Cooper Kupp, Ardarius Stewart, Juju, and Chris Godwin are all exactly what we need. They're not super freaky athletes but they're all really skilled at their craft, which makes them better than a great athlete with no skill. Joe needs someone with good hands who is a master of the short and intermediate routes

Give us JuJu and Stewart and if the offensive line is elite with an all purpose back. And our offense will be top3 maybe best in the NFL. I would take Howard/Njoku at 16 as well. Man among boys especially Njoku. Stewart plays faster than his 4.48. He didn't practice much for the 40. And he plays fast and shifty. Catches without hearing down. Don't sleep on Chris Moore. He can get open and I think he can begin actually pulling in the catch.

[sflegend89]

 It's like people get so fixated on Ross' 40 time that it's now a hot take to say he's overrated. The guy is technically skilled and crafty, he's not just a straight line speed player, he has that but he's also very agile and shifty with the ball in his hands. Much like Brandin Cooks' skill set. You can throw a screen/slant to Ross and he can make a guy miss and take it to the house. That's the difference between Ross and a lot of other 40 time studs at WR, the ability to make people miss in the open field and run good routes. Being fast doesn't mean you're shifty with the ball or run good routes, look at Torrey Smith for example. I'm a guy who also really banged on the Odell Beckham drum when he was coming out and while he never got as much hate as Ross, he certainly had doubters and people who didn't want to believe what they saw on film would carry over to the NFL.

Ross is a playmaker

 

He also can become a great route runner at the next level

Edited March 29 by sflegend89

[rossihunter2]

1 hour ago, sflegend89 said:

 It's like people get so fixated on Ross' 40 time that it's now a hot take to say he's overrated. The guy is technically skilled and crafty, he's not just a straight line speed player, he has that but he's also very agile and shifty with the ball in his hands. Much like Brandin Cooks' skill set. You can throw a screen/slant to Ross and he can make a guy miss and take it to the house. That's the difference between Ross and a lot of other 40 time studs at WR, the ability to make people miss in the open field and run good routes. Being fast doesn't mean you're shifty with the ball or run good routes, look at Torrey Smith for example. I'm a guy who also really banged on the Odell Beckham drum when he was coming out and while he never got as much hate as Ross, he certainly had doubters and people who didn't want to believe what they saw on film would carry over to the NFL.

Ross is a playmaker

 

He also can become a great route runner at the next level

It's not that I don't believe his skillset will carry over it's that I don't think he's a good enough prospect to forget about fit and I think the fit of some other receivers in this draft are better fits for the ravens

[rossihunter2]

5 hours ago, ravensnation5220 said:

So why bother trying so hard. They've done a good enough job with veterans and free agents. Why waste a draft pick. I mean when was the last time a team won a super bowl with an elite receiver who actually contributed in the win lol. I honestly can't recall. 

Lol Jerry rice? Michael Irvin? I don't think any elite receivers in this generation have a ring let alone been to one. All they do is cause a distraction to their team. 

It's more like icing on the cake. An unnecessary luxury 

A lot of number 1 receivers have been integral in getting their team to the superbowl though or close - just because the big game is annually taken over by the patriots doesn't mean those number 1 guys on other teams aren't worth the money 

[sflegend89]

2 hours ago, rossihunter2 said:

It's not that I don't believe his skillset will carry over it's that I don't think he's a good enough prospect to forget about fit and I think the fit of some other receivers in this draft are better fits for the ravens

 

I mean ideally we all want the guy with the Mike Williams build/play style. We look at guys like Julio Jones and Mike Evans and imagine what Flacco could do if he ever had a player like that just once in his entire career here. But I think realistically Williams and even O.J. Howard (Who's stock has been way up lately) are gone and we're looking at Ross/Davis if we want to make a significant addition to Flacco's weapons (Let's be honest, he needs a major addition, the offense has been floundering since 2014 and our best playmaker has been a 36-37 year old Steve Smith ). I think at the end of the day, regardless of his size or where he lines up, Ross is a hell of a football player and he can produce for us and make some plays after the catch that the offense has been sorely lacking.

I mentioned it in another thread but if you look at the top 15 receiving yds leaders from 2016 over half of them are under 6 foot. Arguably the best WR in football in AB plays a style not too far off from Ross. Am I saying Ross is the next AB, absolutely not, but I think he can play at a level similar to Brandin Cooks and Jarvis Landry. I think the whole "fit" based on his size/playing style is overblown, the kid can ball. Didn't score 17 TD's last year by accident, he makes big plays.

Edited March 29 by sflegend89

[PurpleHorseman]

9 hours ago, ravensnation5220 said:

So why bother trying so hard. They've done a good enough job with veterans and free agents. Why waste a draft pick. I mean when was the last time a team won a super bowl with an elite receiver who actually contributed in the win lol. I honestly can't recall. 

Lol Jerry rice? Michael Irvin? I don't think any elite receivers in this generation have a ring let alone been to one. All they do is cause a distraction to their team. 

It's more like icing on the cake. An unnecessary luxury 

 

9 hours ago, raven94 said:

Agreed, plus I think guys like Cooper Kupp, Ardarius Stewart, Juju, and Chris Godwin are all exactly what we need. They're not super freaky athletes but they're all really skilled at their craft, which makes them better than a great athlete with no skill. Joe needs someone with good hands who is a master of the short and intermediate routes

Give us JuJu and Stewart and if the offensive line is elite. And an all purpose Runner like Dixon and our offense is top4. However not to say John Ross isn't a great player. He is very unique in that he could be a high volume WR in the slot. But he can get deep on any given play from the slot position. NFL defenses would be stressed covering a guy that can catch 8-9 per game over the middle. And that same guy could decide on a big play. He could suddenly make a lightning fast cut and go for the big play while the defense is covering the slot. Opposing teams will have to account for him

[trevorsteadman]

12 hours ago, Ravenskid52752 said:

Well it's not post combine hype he's a big play waiting to happen from anywhere on  the field. There is this misconception about him that he's just a speedy guy where he can actually run all the routes in a route tree look at the film you see that.

History of players his size at the position usually do not pan out well in the NFL.. He has already struggled with injuries early in the process that is probably what scares me the most. You can get a shifty, quick receiver who can run all the routes in the tree later in the draft. The team already kind of has that with Campanaro. 

I know he has a lot of touchdowns in college but I am afraid with his height that some of that won't translate as well, and that is troubling. Watching Baltimore last year, the offense moved the ball pretty well overall, but then struggled once it got around the redzone. While Pitta seemed to start coming on last year and I think he will be used more in the slot next year, I think the team needs some extra height and toughness at wide receiver. 

While it is all just different opinions on where the offense should go, I do think this offense has enough speed already. Wallace, Perriman, and Moore is plenty of speed. While more speed wouldn't hurt, playing against tight coverage like New England, Denver, and other teams you are not going to win all game long with pure speed. 

[JoeyFlex5]

7 hours ago, sflegend89 said:

 It's like people get so fixated on Ross' 40 time that it's now a hot take to say he's overrated. The guy is technically skilled and crafty, he's not just a straight line speed player, he has that but he's also very agile and shifty with the ball in his hands. Much like Brandin Cooks' skill set. You can throw a screen/slant to Ross and he can make a guy miss and take it to the house. That's the difference between Ross and a lot of other 40 time studs at WR, the ability to make people miss in the open field and run good routes. Being fast doesn't mean you're shifty with the ball or run good routes, look at Torrey Smith for example. I'm a guy who also really banged on the Odell Beckham drum when he was coming out and while he never got as much hate as Ross, he certainly had doubters and people who didn't want to believe what they saw on film would carry over to the NFL.

Ross is a playmaker

 

He also can become a great route runner at the next level

I too was on beckhams bandwagon but Beckham was a much better catcher. Ross is still a "drop it in the bucket" type of catcher and regardless of how fast or shifty he is, he still needs to attack the ball and be able to beat safeties who are gonna be assigned to play him deep, most NFL safeties don't get beaten deep, it take confusion and play design to beat a safety deep, very rarely can one players route running do that, and when the safety stays disciplined you need a guy to make a tough catch. 

Another thing to consider is that joe jus struggles to hit guys in stride, we need to accept it, Ross is gonna need a very precise timing style qb to be able to use his YAC game because it will take some serious lead throws to hit a 4.22 guy in stride. I prefer a guy who is gonna be able to catch the ball no matter where joe may place it on a given play. If he has a tendency to slow a dude up on his route a little, then a big bodied and big catch radius becomes a lot more valuable

[Edgar]

37 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I too was on beckhams bandwagon but Beckham was a much better catcher. Ross is still a "drop it in the bucket" type of catcher and regardless of how fast or shifty he is, he still needs to attack the ball and be able to beat safeties who are gonna be assigned to play him deep, most NFL safeties don't get beaten deep, it take confusion and play design to beat a safety deep, very rarely can one players route running do that, and when the safety stays disciplined you need a guy to make a tough catch. 

Another thing to consider is that joe jus struggles to hit guys in stride, we need to accept it, Ross is gonna need a very precise timing style qb to be able to use his YAC game because it will take some serious lead throws to hit a 4.22 guy in stride. I prefer a guy who is gonna be able to catch the ball no matter where joe may place it on a given play. If he has a tendency to slow a dude up on his route a little, then a big bodied and big catch radius becomes a lot more valuable

Not a happy commentary on our QB. 

[JoeyFlex5]

35 minutes ago, Edgar said:

Not a happy commentary on our QB. 

I'm joes biggest fan, but it's foolish to act like any qb doesn't have his weaknesses. His tendency to hit the receiver on their back hip kills our crossing patterns, and his tendency to throw off his back foot is maddening, still love our qb for what he does right and the fact that he's been doing it with no supporting cast

[-Truth-]

4 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I too was on beckhams bandwagon but Beckham was a much better catcher. Ross is still a "drop it in the bucket" type of catcher and regardless of how fast or shifty he is, he still needs to attack the ball and be able to beat safeties who are gonna be assigned to play him deep, most NFL safeties don't get beaten deep, it take confusion and play design to beat a safety deep, very rarely can one players route running do that, and when the safety stays disciplined you need a guy to make a tough catch. 

Another thing to consider is that joe jus struggles to hit guys in stride, we need to accept it, Ross is gonna need a very precise timing style qb to be able to use his YAC game because it will take some serious lead throws to hit a 4.22 guy in stride. I prefer a guy who is gonna be able to catch the ball no matter where joe may place it on a given play. If he has a tendency to slow a dude up on his route a little, then a big bodied and big catch radius becomes a lot more valuable

Solid points. Beckham Jr. was one of my favorite prospects in the entire draft, but he was better in contested situations. He had some of the best hands I've ever seen on a prospect, and I don't feel that his situation is comparable to Ross'. I personally like Ross. But I'm also not entirely on board with the Brandin Cooks comparisons. Having watched Cooks extensively since his college days, I felt that Cooks was better on 50/50 throws. He also had sharper cuts in the open field. Ross is obviously no slouch himself there, but the point remains.

Edited March 29 by -Truth-

[JoeyFlex5]

13 minutes ago, -Truth- said:

Solid points. Beckham Jr. was one of my favorite prospects in the entire draft, but he was better in contested situation. He had some of the best hands I've ever seen on a prospect, and I don't feel that his situation is comparable to Ross'. I personally like Ross. But I'm also not entirely on board with the Brandin Cooks comparisons. Having watched Cooks extensively since his college days, I felt that Cooks was better on 50/50 throws. He also had sharper cuts in the open field. Ross is obviously no slouch himself there, but the point remains.

Agreed 100%. Beckham was being drafted before we even signed Steve smith and I was comparing him to smitty, the way he attacked the ball so explosively and aggressively and was so strong in his YAC game reminded me a lot of him. They're 2 totally different animals. And cooks' shiftiness should not be understated, his ability to change directions sharply at full speed without even prepping his body for it(such as a shoulder lean or hard foot plant) is incredible, Ross still rounds his routes out more often than you'd like and doesn't have that change of gears that the real route technicians have, he's full speed the whole time, and simply doesn't attack the ball like cooks does

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

13 minutes ago, -Truth- said:

Solid points. Beckham Jr. was one of my favorite prospects in the entire draft, but he was better in contested situation. He had some of the best hands I've ever seen on a prospect, and I don't feel that his situation is comparable to Ross'. I personally like Ross. But I'm also not entirely on board with the Brandin Cooks comparisons. Having watched Cooks extensively since his college days, I felt that Cooks was better on 50/50 throws. He also had sharper cuts in the open field. Ross is obviously no slouch himself there, but the point remains.

I have to agree. Beckham had Deandre Hopkins hands and an Antonio brown body with good body control. 

 

Ross is good. Just not good enough for 16. I'd rather take an OL or pass rusher

[52520Andrew]

On 3/28/2017 at 1:21 PM, RavensDieHard21 said:

Has no one still addressed the elephant in the room? I don't get the hate for Ross, yet everyone thinks he is a guy that isn't that good or only is being discussed because of the combine. 

Trust me, I want an edge rusher or a CB first, but if no QBs or Tackles go before us, a lot of talent will be plucked. In the boat of potential picks that are realistic between Humphrey, Robinson, Harris, Williams and Ross, I think that Ross's potential is on par with the rest if not even better. 

Obviously he has incredible speed, yet I see some saying he doesn't play quick though🙄 Watch the USC or Cal tape. He has straight line speed and explosive quickness whenever needing to gain separation. Most of the balls thrown to him were often underthrown because he was so quick down field. Don't get me started in open field where he is elusive like AB and Hilton with a nasty stutter step to shake defenders.

In regards to route running, he didn't have many opportunities to go over the middle or run comeback routes, but that is just college for you. If something isn't broke, don't fix it they say and CBs could not keep up with him. Despite that though, when he did comebacks and drag routes he is quick to break back to the ball. 

Hands were often on display too as many of his deep balls were contested or swatted at when he had to slow down to catch them and he rarely let that stop him from pulling them in. 

Yeah Ross has some crazy quickness and can get separation on just about anyone, people seem to value route running but that is something that can be taught. And it isn't like Ross is Mike Evans in college who pretty much ran streaks and hooks, Ross has some solid moves and could torch NFL guys with his speed and could win underneath against corners afraid of getting beat deep. You will never teach his quickness. Also if the Washington QB could throw a deep ball, his stats would look insane, routinely was battling for underthrown balls on routes he clearly won with. Injuries are my biggest concern with Ross but if his health checks out and that is a big if, I think he could come out of this draft as the best WR. 

And I don't think Ross is the guy we need to get or anything, I think there are other positions we need to address and this is a great chance to get ourselves a good edge rusher but I would completely understand us making the pick. 

Edited March 29 by 52520Andrew