Flex post combina/FA mock

[rossihunter2]

8 minutes ago, purpletide said:

I really don't think Williams has character issues, he's shown maturity in his interviews and owned up to his mistakes. He seems pretty humble and responsible from when I've seen him talk, and if Ozzie looks into him I'm sure he could get Bama staff to give insight to whether or not character concerns are legitimate.

I wasn't suggesting that he's a head case or anything - was just saying the of the concerns about him, character ones are only ones i feel have legitimacy given what I've seen on film

[purpletide]

Just now, rossihunter2 said:

I wasn't suggesting that he's a head case or anything - was just saying the of the concerns about him, character ones are only ones i feel have legitimacy given what I've seen on film

Yeah I think I remember you talking about that on a topic about Tim. I just meant that if his character concerns are his biggest problem, then he's a good pick up because I don't see anyone making a good argument as to why he's too much character for us to handle.

[rossihunter2]

2 minutes ago, purpletide said:

Yeah I think I remember you talking about that on a topic about Tim. I just meant that if his character concerns are his biggest problem, then he's a good pick up because I don't see anyone making a good argument as to why he's too much character for us to handle.

Yeah - if we pick him up at 16 I'll be delighted because it suggests that our fo is happy with his "character concerns" and therefore I can be happy with his tape which is so fun to watch

essentially I'm agreeing with you lol 

[rmw10]

16 minutes ago, purpletide said:

I really don't think Williams has character issues, he's shown maturity in his interviews and owned up to his mistakes. He seems pretty humble and responsible from when I've seen him talk, and if Ozzie looks into him I'm sure he could get Bama staff to give insight to whether or not character concerns are legitimate.

This coming from a fan of Williams - he has character issues.  Regardless of what he says, he's still admitted to failing multiple drug tests and that's a legitimate concern.  He might come off as genuine and remorseful when he speaks, but guys like Josh Gordon and Randy Gregory have also said the same things and look where they are right now.  Now, that doesn't mean Williams will end up like them.  He could very well buck the trend.  I just think you need to know with absolute certainty that he's changed if you're spending your 16th overall pick on a guy in what could be a make or break year for a lot of jobs in the organization.

[Jonah DeVito]

6 hours ago, MrNice20 said:

All I'm saying is we need playmakers, not stockpiling hopeful edge rushers who we hope they can morf into a Suggs. Won't happen

Suggs has been one of the best at his position for the past decade, I'm not sure if they expect any of the guys to be on his level. But we do need a replacement, and if that means stockpiling until we find one then so be it. 

[purpletide]

4 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

This coming from a fan of Williams - he has character issues.  Regardless of what he says, he's still admitted to failing multiple drug tests and that's a legitimate concern.  He might come off as genuine and remorseful when he speaks, but guys like Josh Gordon and Randy Gregory have also said the same things and look where they are right now.  Now, that doesn't mean Williams will end up like them.  He could very well buck the trend.  I just think you need to know with absolute certainty that he's changed if you're spending your 16th overall pick on a guy in what could be a make or break year for a lot of jobs in the organization.

Yeah, but it's all up to Ozzie and he has access to information that we don't, so we'll see come draft day whether or not Tim's worth that 16th pick. I'm just hoping that he learns from his mistakes and it's just him making bad decisions when he's young, but as you said that could also be attached to guys like Gordon when making excuses for them. I'm not sure about Gordon's and Gregory's case but I like that Williams admitted fault to the public without having to.

[rossihunter2]

11 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

This coming from a fan of Williams - he has character issues.  Regardless of what he says, he's still admitted to failing multiple drug tests and that's a legitimate concern.  He might come off as genuine and remorseful when he speaks, but guys like Josh Gordon and Randy Gregory have also said the same things and look where they are right now.  Now, that doesn't mean Williams will end up like them.  He could very well buck the trend.  I just think you need to know with absolute certainty that he's changed if you're spending your 16th overall pick on a guy in what could be a make or break year for a lot of jobs in the organization.

With all due respect they were different people - those guys showed remorse to a certain extent but they felt like head cases when they spoke - I always felt like I was waiting for them to slip up

with Williams he felt genuine and convincing - and to a certain extent he seemed trustworthy - now I'll admit he could well be a sociopath but he eased my concerns somewhat by how he spoke and of course if those concerns are real, significant and enduring then I back the FO to pass him over - but he feels different to those other guys you listed - something about how he is makes me want to believe him whereas the other guys left me uncomfortable and unconvinced 

[rmw10]

4 minutes ago, purpletide said:

Yeah, but it's all up to Ozzie and he has access to information that we don't, so we'll see come draft day whether or not Tim's worth that 16th pick. I'm just hoping that he learns from his mistakes and it's just him making bad decisions when he's young, but as you said that could also be attached to guys like Gordon when making excuses for them. I'm not sure about Gordon's and Gregory's case but I like that Williams admitted fault to the public without having to.

Oh I agree.  I can't sit here and pretend like I know Williams' exact situation.  I just think it's a tough year to take a character risk considering the lack of young talent this team has acquired over the past few years.  You have that challenging decision.  If Williams is clean, you're likely getting a top of the line pass rusher even if he has limits elsewhere.  If he's not though and he fails more tests and gets suspended, how does this team recover?  Like you said (and even I've said it numerous times), if he does get picked by us, that has to mean Ozzie is comfortable with him.  I just have a hard time believing that's the case.

Just now, rossihunter2 said:

With all due respect they were different people - those guys showed remorse to a certain extent but they felt like head cases when they spoke - I always felt like I was waiting for them to slip up

with Williams he felt genuine and convincing - and to a certain extent he seemed trustworthy - now I'll admit he could well be a sociopath but he eased my concerns somewhat by how he spoke and of course if those concerns are real, significant and enduring then I back the FO to pass him over - but he feels different to those other guys you listed - something about how he is makes me want to believe him whereas the other guys left me uncomfortable and unconvinced 

Keep in mind that Williams concerns are largely off the field, so the largest part of his pre-draft coaching has been damage control.  I would bet that his agent placed a strong priority on finding someone to teach him exactly what to say and how to say it.

[JoeyFlex5]

22 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

This coming from a fan of Williams - he has character issues.  Regardless of what he says, he's still admitted to failing multiple drug tests and that's a legitimate concern.  He might come off as genuine and remorseful when he speaks, but guys like Josh Gordon and Randy Gregory have also said the same things and look where they are right now.  Now, that doesn't mean Williams will end up like them.  He could very well buck the trend.  I just think you need to know with absolute certainty that he's changed if you're spending your 16th overall pick on a guy in what could be a make or break year for a lot of jobs in the organization.

Gregory admitted to having a real dependence on it and said it's how he handles his anxiety, that's a little different. Plenty of players buck the trend, mathieu, so far spence, so far tunsil, DGB has been a solid character guy so far, and then you have ray rice who was a model citizen and then he slugged his wife. I've done enough incredibly stupid stuff to know that kids between the age 18 and 22 are knuckleheads and most of them grow up for the better

[rmw10]

4 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Gregory admitted to having a real dependence on it and said it's how he handles his anxiety, that's a little different. Plenty of players buck the trend, mathieu, so far spence, so far tunsil, DGB has been a solid character guy so far, and then you have ray rice who was a model citizen and then he slugged his wife. I've done enough incredibly stupid stuff to know that kids between the age 18 and 22 are knuckleheads and most of them grow up for the better

I'm not saying he's going to end up like them or anything. Merely pointing out that a public press conference and what he said in it has no bearing to me. It could be just like any standard job interview where you say what the interviewer wants to hear. 

[JoeyFlex5]

4 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I'm not saying he's going to end up like them or anything. Merely pointing out that a public press conference and what he said in it has no bearing to me. It could be just like any standard job interview where you say what the interviewer wants to hear. 

I gotcha, just stating how I look at it, if he seems like he's got a good head on his shoulders then I'll give him the benefit of the doubt

[rossihunter2]

19 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I'm not saying he's going to end up like them or anything. Merely pointing out that a public press conference and what he said in it has no bearing to me. It could be just like any standard job interview where you say what the interviewer wants to hear. 

Even that suggests some sort of smarts to a certain extent - he's intelligent enough to realise that taking the hit now could make him a lot more money

 

28 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I just think it's a tough year to take a character risk considering the lack of young talent this team has acquired over the past few years.

Well this is where I think we agree - but the way I think of it is that if we pick him then there probably aren't character issues in the same way - it suggests mistake not serial stupidity/dependency - obviously that risk will follow him until he produced but the way I see it he only gets picked high if it's not a risk... which is why I'm not really sweating about it because my opinion is going to be dependent entirely on the way the draft goes with regards to him whereas I'll maintain strong opinions on virtually every other prospect

[RavensDieHard21]

Tim Williams is not even remotely a reach. If there were no red flags from character most people would say he was a lock for top 15. 

He needs to keep lean muscle on his frame though while remaining explosive. That 252-55 range would be best. At 240-244 he isn't going to hold the edge as well. I think he's ultra explosive and we could utilize him as we did Dumervil and use him as a pass rush specialist.