Flex post combina/FA mock

[rossihunter2]

6 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

i hate watching cb film because all 22 film is damn hard to find, and standard view db film is just worthless. the only day 2-3 guys ive watched are moreau, rasul douglas, corn elder, jourdan lewis, tre white(who i actually think was up there with sidney jones), q wilson, tabor, desmond king, kevin king, awuzie, ad thats all i can think of off the top of my head. i really freaking hate watching db film lol. i think lattimore was the only time i actually enjoyed watching a corners film because his natural ability is just so easy to appreciate. 

so ill admit to being out of the loop as far as day 3 cbs are concerned. i just dont follow them well.

Yeah it's really hard to evaluate later round prospects because they don't have enough film on YouTube to be able to put multiple plays/good views together - I struggle to find good enough film for anyone beyond the 4th (which hardly counts as day 3

the really late/udfa guys are so hard to identify and evaluate

[Somerset Ravens]

10 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

 

williams doesnt just have pass rush ability, he has ELITE pass rush ability, he is a game changer. not to mention, tim williams really isnt just a one trick pony, like i stated above he has film out there of him holding up quite well in the run, he crashes the line on the back end of zone plays very well, pursues great, and his motor runs as high as anyone in the class, and this year he beefed up a lot and played much more physical and really progressed big time against the run. 

 

I am not saying that Williams is not a good pass rusher, I am not sure he has reached elite status yet. How elite did he look against Clemson in this year's national championship game?

 

10 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

i think his lack of opportunity against the run is being held way too much against him. williams has plenty of film of himself defending the run well, it just shows up sparingly since hes playing on a front seven that is basically all NFL talent with NFL talent backups. the tides front seven the past 2 years is absolutely ridiculous and you cant fault a player for the coach wanting to keep his legs fresh to do the more valuable job and do it better. 

 

You mention Tim Williams lack of opportunity against the run, then you say there is plenty of film showing him defending the run well but that it shows up sparingly. Seems to be contradiction there.  Is it that the coach wants to keep his legs fresh or is it that the coach does  not want to expose his weakness against the run?

11 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

 

you dont draft an edge defender at 16 for his run stuffing abilities, you draft him because he can get to the qb very well, which williams does, at that point you hope he either provides enough value there or he progresses into a 3 down starter. guys who can pass rush like tim williams but also defend the run at an elite level end up going top 3, so to get a guy with williams' talent level at 16 is great, because he brings a top 5 impact at potentially the most valuable aspect of a defense and just needs to progress in an area that can be addressed with dime-a-dozen players. courtney upshaw may be a better edge setter, but i doubt anyone would take upshaw at 16 hoping he becomes a better pass rusher, you can do that with pass rushers though and hope they develop their run defense.

 

I think you draft an edge defender at 16 you expect him to be able rush the passer as well as play well against the run. If both Derek Barnett and Tim Williams are available at 16 who do you take and why? You say that you hope he progresses into a 3 down starter which sounds like you are saying he is a one trick pony.

I also think you are taking William's multiple off field problems too lightly. I know you saw interviews that made you feel comfortable with Williams but I am one who thinks actions speak louder than words. I really hope he can put his problems behind him but at this point there are still lingering concerns.

In your draft scenario I would be looking to trade back at 16. IMO Williams does does have enough value to take with the 16th pick.

[MrNice20]

If this happened I would be heated. All picks are a round too early, selecting Tim Williams at 16 with playmakers on the board still would be ridiculous. We need athletic, playmakers at the skill positions. Selecting an edge rusher doesn't qualify as that. Tim Williams disappeared in the Championship game against Clemson do we forget that? His counterpart on the other side, Ryan Anderson, stood out the most to me. There will be quality edge rushers in rounds 2-4, so taking a playmaker (WR,CB) is a top priority. Unless of course someone falls at a position we need or BPA.. ex: Oj Howard, Ruben Foster, Mike Williams.

although don't get me wrong, i however don't feel any CB is worthy at 16 albeit the recently injured Sidney Jones. And we know that's out of the question now. All I'm saying is we need playmakers, not stockpiling hopeful edge rushers who we hope they can morf into a Suggs. Won't happen

[JoeyFlex5]

31 minutes ago, Somerset Ravens said:

I am not saying that Williams is not a good pass rusher, I am not sure he has reached elite status yet. How elite did he look against Clemson in this year's national championship game?

 

You mention Tim Williams lack of opportunity against the run, then you say there is plenty of film showing him defending the run well but that it shows up sparingly. Seems to be contradiction there.  Is it that the coach wants to keep his legs fresh or is it that the coach does  not want to expose his weakness against the run?

I think you draft an edge defender at 16 you expect him to be able rush the passer as well as play well against the run. If both Derek Barnett and Tim Williams are available at 16 who do you take and why? You say that you hope he progresses into a 3 down starter which sounds like you are saying he is a one trick pony.

I also think you are taking William's multiple off field problems too lightly. I know you saw interviews that made you feel comfortable with Williams but I am one who thinks actions speak louder than words. I really hope he can put his problems behind him but at this point there are still lingering concerns.

In your draft scenario I would be looking to trade back at 16. IMO Williams does does have enough value to take with the 16th pick.

That's one game and he had beaten the tackle badly multiple times only to slip and fall when the grass came out from under his feet, happened quite a few times. 

He was used sparingly against the run, but that doesn't mean there is no film out there of him defending the run? Stop with the semantics, im not here to spoon feed you information so you can try to dissect my words to fit your narrative. 

As you can very clearly see, Barnett was taken ahead of us, meaning we can't take him over williams, my post clearly says that a player who is elite against both the run and the pass is likely gonna go too early for us to take at 16, it's what happens, edge rushers hold a lot of value and if they also happen to be an effective 3 down starter then they hit that top 10 range. williams has shown competence against the run and he would need some reps and coaching to build upon that, it's not fair to call him a one trick pony because his opportunities to prove otherwise have been limited, but he has shown in this past year some pretty decent play vs the run, and at worst a competence and willingness to work to get better in that regard. 

You really are more than welcome to watch all of his games that you can find online like I have done multiple times, if you want to pick apart my arguments based on my word choice then I'm not gonna continue spoon feeding you about williams, you can just find out for yourself and then bring an actual football related argument to the table.

[JoeyFlex5]

41 minutes ago, MrNice20 said:

If this happened I would be heated. All picks are a round too early, selecting Tim Williams at 16 with playmakers on the board still would be ridiculous. We need athletic, playmakers at the skill positions. Selecting an edge rusher doesn't qualify as that. Tim Williams disappeared in the Championship game against Clemson do we forget that? His counterpart on the other side, Ryan Anderson, stood out the most to me. There will be quality edge rushers in rounds 2-4, so taking a playmaker (WR,CB) is a top priority. Unless of course someone falls at a position we need or BPA.. ex: Oj Howard, Ruben Foster, Mike Williams.

although don't get me wrong, i however don't feel any CB is worthy at 16 albeit the recently injured Sidney Jones. And we know that's out of the question now. All I'm saying is we need playmakers, not stockpiling hopeful edge rushers who we hope they can morf into a Suggs. Won't happen

Your definition of a playmaker is odd...

[PurpleHorseman]

Solid draft. Could probably find a better offensive lineman Magnuson in round3. Eluemanor is a player I believe has a better roof. If you watch him enough you could believe he could actually play left tackle with some refinement. He is a better athlete than Dawkins and Moton. 

[MrNice20]

56 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Your definition of a playmaker is odd...

Someone is on the field 80%+ plays and not just an edge rusher. Being able to stop the run is just as important as is rushing the passer being selected at 16. Tim Williams, imo, isn't worthy of a 16 selection being a one trick player. Disappeared in the Championship game must have forget to mention. having a big bodied receiver such as Corey Davis on the board to fill our need of adding a player on offense and to supplement the speed we already have would be a huge gain 

[JoeyFlex5]

32 minutes ago, MrNice20 said:

Someone is on the field 80%+ plays and not just an edge rusher. Being able to stop the run is just as important as is rushing the passer being selected at 16. Tim Williams, imo, isn't worthy of a 16 selection being a one trick player. Disappeared in the Championship game must have forget to mention. having a big bodied receiver such as Corey Davis on the board to fill our need of adding a player on offense and to supplement the speed we already have would be a huge gain 

Again, you say he's a one trick pony but he has film that says otherwise where he is sound in run defense. Pass rushers are some of the biggest playmakers in football, they change games, there is no play more devastating to a teams morale than a strip-sack, pass rush gave the patriots a chance to win the super bowl, pass rush stopped the 2007 patriots. it is arguably the most important aspect of any defense in this pass happy league. Our run defense is going to continue to be among the leagues best but our pass rush needs massive improvement, it is among the weakest spots on our team. 

And Corey Davis may be tall, but he doesn't play like a big bodied receiver, he runs routes well and gains separation and does well with YAC, but he is lacking the traits that most big bodied receivers have, doesn't pursue the ball aggressively, doesn't box out or highpoint in coverage, he is gonna have a lot more of a learning curve than people expect and could struggle once he faces press and bracket coverages, something he almost never dealt with in college. 

And for those that mention the championship game, deshaun Watson lit it up, he willed Clemson to a win against an all time great defense, yet most sources say that teams grade him as a 3rd round talent. One game means nothing

Edited March 26 by JoeyFlex5

[Jonah DeVito]

2 hours ago, MrNice20 said:

If this happened I would be heated. All picks are a round too early, selecting Tim Williams at 16 with playmakers on the board still would be ridiculous. We need athletic, playmakers at the skill positions. Selecting an edge rusher doesn't qualify as that. Tim Williams disappeared in the Championship game against Clemson do we forget that? His counterpart on the other side, Ryan Anderson, stood out the most to me. There will be quality edge rushers in rounds 2-4, so taking a playmaker (WR,CB) is a top priority. Unless of course someone falls at a position we need or BPA.. ex: Oj Howard, Ruben Foster, Mike Williams.

although don't get me wrong, i however don't feel any CB is worthy at 16 albeit the recently injured Sidney Jones. And we know that's out of the question now. All I'm saying is we need playmakers, not stockpiling hopeful edge rushers who we hope they can morf into a Suggs. Won't happen

Not sure how you can say a pass rusher isn't a playmaker...

[Jonah DeVito]

I see no problem with taking Tim Williams at 16. 

[JoeyFlex5]

6 minutes ago, Jonah DeVito said:

I see no problem with taking Tim Williams at 16. 

Most who aren't ok with it don't understand positional value and don't understand the concept of projection. 

Unless of course you are worried about his character, then it's a different story, but the people who dislike him purely for football reasons seem to be lacking some context 

[Somerset Ravens]

42 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

That's one game and he had beaten the tackle badly multiple times only to slip and fall when the grass came out from under his feet, happened quite a few times. 

He was used sparingly against the run, but that doesn't mean there is no film out there of him defending the run? Stop with the semantics, im not here to spoon feed you information so you can try to dissect my words to fit your narrative. 

As you can very clearly see, Barnett was taken ahead of us, meaning we can't take him over williams, my post clearly says that a player who is elite against both the run and the pass is likely gonna go too early for us to take at 16, it's what happens, edge rushers hold a lot of value and if they also happen to be an effective 3 down starter then they hit that top 10 range. williams has shown competence against the run and he would need some reps and coaching to build upon that, it's not fair to call him a one trick pony because his opportunities to prove otherwise have been limited, but he has shown in this past year some pretty decent play vs the run, and at worst a competence and willingness to work to get better in that regard. 

You really are more than welcome to watch all of his games that you can find online like I have done multiple times, if you want to pick apart my arguments based on my word choice then I'm not gonna continue spoon feeding you about williams, you can just find out for yourself and then bring an actual football related argument to the table.

I am sorry that you feel I am trying to pick apart your words, that certainly is not my intent. I am trying to respond to points that you made.Our opinions of William's value differ. There is nothing wrong with us not being in agreement. I find it interesting to examine a different point of view.

The reason I brought up Barnett and Williams was that of value. I understand that Williams has had limited opportunities against the run, but the limited sample size does not let you draw as definitive a conclusion as seeing him as often we do as a pash rusher. Doesn't it make you wonder why he didn't play more against the run? He may develop into a good run defender but we need to see more of him against the run. I do not question his work ethic but I am concerned about Scouts Inc. questioning his football intelligence. The off field issues also take away from his value in my mind.

I am sure you watch more film than I do but I am an Alabama fan and watched them play eight times last season so I have seen Tim Williams play. You and I will just have to agree to disagree on William's value.

[MrNice20]

9 minutes ago, Somerset Ravens said:

I am sorry that you feel I am trying to pick apart your words, that certainly is not my intent. I am trying to respond to points that you made.Our opinions of William's value differ. There is nothing wrong with us not being in agreement. I find it interesting to examine a different point of view.

The reason I brought up Barnett and Williams was that of value. I understand that Williams has had limited opportunities against the run, but the limited sample size does not let you draw as definitive a conclusion as seeing him as often we do as a pash rusher. Doesn't it make you wonder why he didn't play more against the run? He may develop into a good run defender but we need to see more of him against the run. I do not question his work ethic but I am concerned about Scouts Inc. questioning his football intelligence. The off field issues also take away from his value in my mind.

I am sure you watch more film than I do but I am an Alabama fan and watched them play eight times last season so I have seen Tim Williams play. You and I will just have to agree to disagree on William's value.

Thanks for proving my point for me, god bless 

[JoeyFlex5]

1 minute ago, Somerset Ravens said:

I am sorry that you feel I am trying to pick apart your words, that certainly is not my intent. I am trying to respond to points that you made.Our opinions of William's value differ. There is nothing wrong with us not being in agreement. I find it interesting to examine a different point of view.

The reason I brought up Barnett and Williams was that of value. I understand that Williams has had limited opportunities against the run, but the limited sample size does not let you draw as definitive a conclusion as seeing him as often we do as a pash rusher. Doesn't it make you wonder why he didn't play more against the run? He may develop into a good run defender but we need to see more of him against the run. I do not question his work ethic but I am concerned about Scouts Inc. questioning his football intelligence. The off field issues also take away from his value in my mind.

I am sure you watch more film than I do but I am an Alabama fan and watched them play eight times last season so I have seen Tim Williams play. You and I will just have to agree to disagree on William's value.

I'm an Alabama fan myself and I've watched Tim Williams probably more than any player in this class. Sorry for getting so defensive, I misunderstood as it seemed like you were attempting to take every word I said 100% literally, like when I said there was plenty of film showing him defending the run, I didn't mean he was on film as a full time 3 down guy, I meant that there was just plenty of evidence of him showing at least some competence in that regard. 

And I believe that williams was given limited opportunities there simply because Sabah is a winning coach and knows how valuable it is to use your defensive depth. They had an all time great front seven with ridiculous amounts of NFL talent and didn't wanna wear out his top pass rusher, simple as that. I'm no drawing a definitive conclusion of him as a 3 down defender, I'm trying to project the guy based on what I've seen, his run stopping abilities, albeit in small sample sizes, looks way better than Charles Harris and about on par with takk McKinley. Getting a great pass rusher at 16 is gonna come with some concerns to be worked out, what I'm saying is that we make a reasonable projection as to where his run defense could end up and take the odds

[MrNice20]

14 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Most who aren't ok with it don't understand positional value and don't understand the concept of projection. 

Unless of course you are worried about his character, then it's a different story, but the people who dislike him purely for football reasons seem to be lacking some context 

See Somerset Ravens reply. Thanks JoeyFlexx

 

26 minutes ago, Jonah DeVito said:

Not sure how you can say a pass rusher isn't a playmaker...

See Somerset Ravens reply for my answer..thanks and have a fannnnnntastic Sunday 

[Somerset Ravens]

15 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I'm an Alabama fan myself and I've watched Tim Williams probably more than any player in this class. Sorry for getting so defensive, I misunderstood as it seemed like you were attempting to take every word I said 100% literally, like when I said there was plenty of film showing him defending the run, I didn't mean he was on film as a full time 3 down guy, I meant that there was just plenty of evidence of him showing at least some competence in that regard. 

And I believe that williams was given limited opportunities there simply because Sabah is a winning coach and knows how valuable it is to use your defensive depth. They had an all time great front seven with ridiculous amounts of NFL talent and didn't wanna wear out his top pass rusher, simple as that. I'm no drawing a definitive conclusion of him as a 3 down defender, I'm trying to project the guy based on what I've seen, his run stopping abilities, albeit in small sample sizes, looks way better than Charles Harris and about on par with takk McKinley. Getting a great pass rusher at 16 is gonna come with some concerns to be worked out, what I'm saying is that we make a reasonable projection as to where his run defense could end up and take the odds

Hopefully we can have a conversation about Tim Williams after the 2017 season and discuss how his rookie season went.

Being an Alabama fan I was wondering what you thought of Ryan Anderson? He was my second favorite player on their defense last year.

[JoeyFlex5]

10 minutes ago, Somerset Ravens said:

Hopefully we can have a conversation about Tim Williams after the 2017 season and discuss how his rookie season went.

Being an Alabama fan I was wondering what you thought of Ryan Anderson? He was my second favorite player on their defense last year.

Ryan Anderson is just a good ball player but I can't really find his value. Dudes really fundamentally sound and plays with a high motor but doesn't seem to truly excel anywhere, just solid across the board. I guess I would call him a late 2nd early 3rd kinda guy, if I had to give him a pro comp I think I'd say Markus golden, a lot of the same stuff we said about him in his draft is the same thing we're saying about Anderson 

[Somerset Ravens]

He seems to have a knack for being in the right place. I wish the draft started tomorrow as I am anxious to see who we end up with.

[allblackraven]

What's "combina"?

[JoeyFlex5]

2 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

What's "combina"?

Spanish?

[allblackraven]

5 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Spanish?

Ah, si.

BTW, I'm not sure Williams in 1st is enough for me to not hate this mock.

[MrNice20]

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Ryan Anderson is just a good ball player but I can't really find his value. Dudes really fundamentally sound and plays with a high motor but doesn't seem to truly excel anywhere, just solid across the board. I guess I would call him a late 2nd early 3rd kinda guy, if I had to give him a pro comp I think I'd say Markus golden, a lot of the same stuff we said about him in his draft is the same thing we're saying about Anderson 

Thanks for proving my point to prove you wrong YoeyFlex, Ryan Anderson is better and more depth in the later rounds at edge. Focus on the skill, playmakers in the  beginning rounds and worry about edge later. Thanks

Edited March 26 by MrNice20

[JoeyFlex5]

21 minutes ago, MrNice20 said:

Thanks for proving my point to prove you wrong YoeyFlex, Ryan Anderson is better and more depth in the later rounds at edge. Focus on the skill, playmakers in the  beginning rounds and worry about edge later. Thanks

So Tim williams isn't skilled and isn't a playmaker? You make no sense. He literally averages a sack for approximately every 10 snaps over his college career, that is out of this world efficiency, and has the tape to back up the numbers, showing an incredible first step and pursuit, violent style of play bullying guys 60-70 lbs heavier regularly, good array of rush moves and sets up the rush well by changing up his approach, bends the edge very well, and generally plays with a great intensity as the clear top pass rusher on a front seven loaded with NFL talent. 

 

So please, explain how he's not a playmaker, still wondering.

Edited March 26 by JoeyFlex5

[MrNice20]

3 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

So Tim williams isn't skilled and isn't a playmaker? You make no sense

No I never said that. I'm saying worthy of the 16th pick? I'm not quite sure. Plenty of value there I think where we can plug a skill player right in and play. Ex: if a Davis,Howard, M.Williams, Possibly even dalvin cook now that Dixon is suspended. Or a guy like Gareon Conley as a Corner. 

If we trade down to possibly 20th-24 and get a pick or two and still get Williams I'm all for it. This draft is deep I think with talent in the 3rd and 4th rounds where players can start right away or contribute a lot. 

[allblackraven]

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Ryan Anderson is just a good ball player but I can't really find his value. Dudes really fundamentally sound and plays with a high motor but doesn't seem to truly excel anywhere, just solid across the board. I guess I would call him a late 2nd early 3rd kinda guy, if I had to give him a pro comp I think I'd say Markus golden, a lot of the same stuff we said about him in his draft is the same thing we're saying about Anderson 

For me, Takk McKinley is better match to Golden but Anderson is early 2nd rounder in his own right.

[JoeyFlex5]

5 minutes ago, MrNice20 said:

No I never said that. I'm saying worthy of the 16th pick? I'm not quite sure. Plenty of value there I think where we can plug a skill player right in and play. Ex: if a Davis,Howard, M.Williams, Possibly even dalvin cook now that Dixon is suspended. Or a guy like Gareon Conley as a Corner. 

If we trade down to possibly 20th-24 and get a pick or two and still get Williams I'm all for it. This draft is deep I think with talent in the 3rd and 4th rounds where players can start right away or contribute a lot. 

Well in this mock, only 2 of those players were available at that point, and one of them is simply not the slam dunk player some think he is, I keep going back to this but Nelson Agholor coming out looked very similar to Corey Davis except he played better against better competition and didn't have nearly as much manufactured production. And I find it hilarious you fault Tim williams for slipping a few times against Clemson but then call gareon Conley a value at 16, did you see his game vs Clemson? If you let one game decide your grade like you did for williams then you'll take Conley off your board entirely for that game.

[JoeyFlex5]

Just now, allblackraven said:

For me, Takk McKinley is better match to Golden but Anderson is early 2nd rounder in his own right.

Takk is more of an athletic freak than golden was imo, but I see the comp as well. I like Anderson and wouldnt question a 3-4 team taking him early second, just not my cup of tea depending on the remaining board

[rossihunter2]

I'm not gonna quote everyone because it would take way too long but the way I see it is this:

tim Williams demonstrates some elite traits on tape that are rare - burst, bend, polish which are hard to find at 16 - his run defence value is lesser but that's not to say he's a complete run defender at this point - he has shown in limited opportunities that he has some ability and willingness to defend the run which is enough for me to feel comfortable ignoring those "deficiencies" and focus on his pure rushing ability which is maybe even superior to Barnett (it's close)

for me the negative on Williams is all character concern based

the comp with Ryan Anderson, for me, is disingenuous because they do different things/have different roles - Anderson is a solid contributor in all phases of defence which is useful and would get him on the field - he is not an elite solo rusher but demonstrates good rush ability when he's not double-teamed - he's an all-round playmaker who I have a high 2nd round grade on

but flex is right about positional value - it is easier to find solid contributors than elite pass rushers... there's a reason they get paid amazing money

[purpletide]

2 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

I'm not gonna quote everyone because it would take way too long but the way I see it is this:

tim Williams demonstrates some elite traits on tape that are rare - burst, bend, polish which are hard to find at 16 - his run defence value is lesser but that's not to say he's a complete run defender at this point - he has shown in limited opportunities that he has some ability and willingness to defend the run which is enough for me to feel comfortable ignoring those "deficiencies" and focus on his pure rushing ability which is maybe even superior to Barnett (it's close)

for me the negative on Williams is all character concern based

the comp with Ryan Anderson, for me, is disingenuous because they do different things/have different roles - Anderson is a solid contributor in all phases of defence which is useful and would get him on the field - he is not an elite solo rusher but demonstrates good rush ability when he's not double-teamed - he's an all-round playmaker who I have a high 2nd round grade on

but flex is right about positional value - it is easier to find solid contributors than elite pass rushers... there's a reason they get paid amazing money

I really don't think Williams has character issues, he's shown maturity in his interviews and owned up to his mistakes. He seems pretty humble and responsible from when I've seen him talk, and if Ozzie looks into him I'm sure he could get Bama staff to give insight to whether or not character concerns are legitimate.

[JoeyFlex5]

9 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

I'm not gonna quote everyone because it would take way too long but the way I see it is this:

tim Williams demonstrates some elite traits on tape that are rare - burst, bend, polish which are hard to find at 16 - his run defence value is lesser but that's not to say he's a complete run defender at this point - he has shown in limited opportunities that he has some ability and willingness to defend the run which is enough for me to feel comfortable ignoring those "deficiencies" and focus on his pure rushing ability which is maybe even superior to Barnett (it's close)

for me the negative on Williams is all character concern based

the comp with Ryan Anderson, for me, is disingenuous because they do different things/have different roles - Anderson is a solid contributor in all phases of defence which is useful and would get him on the field - he is not an elite solo rusher but demonstrates good rush ability when he's not double-teamed - he's an all-round playmaker who I have a high 2nd round grade on

but flex is right about positional value - it is easier to find solid contributors than elite pass rushers... there's a reason they get paid amazing money

Boom 

1 minute ago, purpletide said:

I really don't think Williams has character issues, he's shown maturity in his interviews and owned up to his mistakes. He seems pretty humble and responsible from when I've seen him talk, and if Ozzie looks into him I'm sure he could get Bama staff to give insight to whether or not character concerns are legitimate.

And this is why I think we could really be the team to take a chance on him. If any gm has the sources to make him feel comfortable about a Bama player, it's Ozzie. IF he checks out, I think we'll be the team to take him, if not then we probably take him off the board until at least 48