Timmy Jernigan - Trade rumors

[RaineV1]

I think people over estimate Jernigan's value. He tends to disappear for long stretches at a time and lost playing time to Carl Davis. He has moments of being good, but he's not a great player, or someone that you build your defense around.

[rmw10]

2 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

I think people over estimate Jernigan's value. He tends to disappear for long stretches at a time and lost playing time to Carl Davis. He has moments of being good, but he's not a great player, or someone that you build your defense around.

I think it's a mix.  Some overestimate it.  Some underestimate it.  I certainly wouldn't be giving him away but I also don't think he's worth a day 2 pick like some suggest.  I don't think there's a trade that even makes sense unless it's a player swap.  For a 4th round pick, which I'd guess would be his absolute max value, I'd rather have him on the field for one more year, even with his inconsistencies.

[rmw10]

15 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

2nd round or pick or better. Otherwise the trade doesn't really benefit us that much.

I'd consider a 3rd, but agreed on the overall point.  It's not about Jernigan's value as much as it is what benefit we're getting out of the deal.  Unless a team is willing to pay more than his value, I don't see a benefit for us.

[RavensFanMania]

8 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I'd consider a 3rd, but agreed on the overall point.  It's not about Jernigan's value as much as it is what benefit we're getting out of the deal.  Unless a team is willing to pay more than his value, I don't see a benefit for us.

A 3rd would be the least that I would take, because we have a decent chance of landing a 3rd as a comp pick in the 2019 draft and still have him in the field this year on the cheap.  I'd rather keep him, but that's me.

[RaineV1]

17 hours ago, RavensFanMania said:

A 3rd would be the least that I would take, because we have a decent chance of landing a 3rd as a comp pick in the 2019 draft and still have him in the field this year on the cheap.  I'd rather keep him, but that's me.

He's not going to give us a 3rd comp pick. KO did only because he became one of the highest payed players at his position and made the probowl.

[Halshayeji]

2 hours ago, RaineV1 said:

He's not going to give us a 3rd comp pick. KO did only because he became one of the highest payed players at his position and made the probowl.

Look at it in a glass half full way. If he plays great then we get a really good cheap season and land a third round comp for sure. If he plays like he has been playing which isn't bad at all then we have a great chance of retaining him on a team friendly contract. 

[RavensFanMania]

6 hours ago, RaineV1 said:

He's not going to give us a 3rd comp pick. KO did only because he became one of the highest payed players at his position and made the probowl.

We would probably get a 4th for him, but if he plays lights out this year, it could happen.  I'd like to have him for this year.

[Halshayeji]

On March 29, 2017 at 3:27 PM, RaineV1 said:

I think people over estimate Jernigan's value. He tends to disappear for long stretches at a time and lost playing time to Carl Davis. He has moments of being good, but he's not a great player, or someone that you build your defense around.

When did he lose playing time to Davis?!

and i honestly don't get it with you guys. he showed flashes of greatness. And at times he wasn't as great but he's beyond just good.

if he plays as good as those flashes all the time then he would demand 20 mil a year and then people would say he's too expensive.

Jernigan is a perfect example of a player you sign to a second contract because there's a good chance he outplays it and his floor is not too bad. Then you can get rid of him once his guaranteed money is up or keep him if he elevated his game.

as a second rounder hes outplayed that tag and as a player that's getting about a million per year he's defiantly worth every penny.

find me one player in the league for 1.5 mil that played better than Jernigan....

Il wait....

Edited March 30 by Halshayeji

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

34 minutes ago, Halshayeji said:

When did he lose playing time to Davis?!

and i honestly don't get it with you guys. he showed flashes of greatness. And at times he wasn't as great but he's beyond just good.

if he plays as good as those flashes all the time then he would demand 20 mil a year and then people would say he's too expensive.

Jernigan is a perfect example of a player you sign to a second contract because there's a good chance he outplays it and his floor is not too bad. Then you can get rid of him once his guaranteed money is up or keep him if he elevated his game.

as a second rounder hes outplayed that tag and as a player that's getting about a million per year he's defiantly worth every penny.

find me one player in the league for 1.5 mil that played better than Jernigan....

Il wait....

My issue with Jernigan is that, while he has actually been consistently very good against the run, he hasnt ever been the consistent pass rushing presence that we need on the inside.

And we cant pay 2 guys a premium to just be run stuffers.... especially when our UDFA Pierce showed, albeit in a very small sample size, that he can be just as good against the run with equally inconsistent flashes as a pass rusher. If anything, Pierce might deserve more of an opportunity set to show if he can bring more of an interior pass rush.

 

And guys that played better than Jernigan in that price range -- I imagine itd be pretty easy; just look at other guys on rookie deals too. Chris Jones ($700k) is one, Beau Allen ($700k) Danny Shelton ($1.4m), Arik Armstead, Deforest Buckner, Aaron Donald ($1.8m), Dominique Easley ($1.7m), Sheldon Richardson last year (1.6m), Kawann Short last year...

I could go on... but its kind of a silly premise. You're basically asking which DL also on rookie contracts are better than Jernigan. And there are quite a few better or just as good, imo.

The real question is, how many DT's who were drafted for their interior pass rushing ability, but have never shown an ability to consistently apply pressure are in demand. I dont think hes ever ranked in the Top 50 in PFF's pass rush productivity for DL's. 

As much as I like Jernigan, want him here, and hold out hope he can still put it together -- part of me believes Michael Pierce can easily be 80% of Jernigan for a fraction of the cost.... and has more time to surpass him.

[Halshayeji]

19 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

My issue with Jernigan is that, while he has actually been consistently very good against the run, he hasnt ever been the consistent pass rushing presence that we need on the inside.

And we cant pay 2 guys a premium to just be run stuffers.... especially when our UDFA Pierce showed, albeit in a very small sample size, that he can be just as good against the run with equally inconsistent flashes as a pass rusher. If anything, Pierce might deserve more of an opportunity set to show if he can bring more of an interior pass rush.

 

And guys that played better than Jernigan in that price range -- I imagine itd be pretty easy; just look at other guys on rookie deals too. Chris Jones ($700k) is one, Beau Allen ($700k) Danny Shelton ($1.4m), Arik Armstead, Deforest Buckner, Aaron Donald ($1.8m), Dominique Easley ($1.7m), Sheldon Richardson last year (1.6m), Kawann Short last year...

I could go on... but its kind of a silly premise. You're basically asking which DL also on rookie contracts are better than Jernigan. And there are quite a few better or just as good, imo.

The real question is, how many DT's who were drafted for their interior pass rushing ability, but have never shown an ability to consistently apply pressure are in demand. I dont think hes ever ranked in the Top 50 in PFF's pass rush productivity for DL's. 

As much as I like Jernigan, want him here, and hold out hope he can still put it together -- part of me believes Michael Pierce can easily be 80% of Jernigan for a fraction of the cost.... and has more time to surpass him.

I still don't understand why you think Jernigan is that bad at getting to the QB. He had 13 sacks in 3 years including his rookie year. In comparison, Ngata has 29 in all his seasons to date and no one can say he's wasn't one of the best at getting to the passer. In comparison, Suh only averages 2 more sacks per year than Jernigan. And Pierce doesn't even play the same position.  You can't compare a 4-3 DT to a 3-4 DE to a NT that had 2 sacks. it's kind of Apples and oranges. 

 

The guys you mentioned are all on rookie deals so that goes hand in hand with what I'm trying to prove. It's a bargain when you have a rookie outperform his contract by that much. Also your numbers are a bit off but that's not the issue here. My issue is that a guy like Buckner was a top ten pick and Donald is about to make close to 20 mil a year. Jernigan if we're lucky should stay for 8-12 depending on how good or bad he plays this year. Oh we also don't have another first round pick to replace Jernigan.

 

ok I went off and I'm sorry it's all over the place but you kind of took me there with those comparisons lol.

just simply put. You say we can't pay a premium for two guys on the line then hate the fact that Jernigan isn't putting up 10 sacks and those guys really get paid premiums. Pierce is not a DE so that's not even a solution. I also would like to see more of Pierce but also keep in mind that he faded even more.

ugh in Ozzie I trust lol

[rmw10]

49 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

My issue with Jernigan is that, while he has actually been consistently very good against the run, he hasnt ever been the consistent pass rushing presence that we need on the inside.

And we cant pay 2 guys a premium to just be run stuffers.... especially when our UDFA Pierce showed, albeit in a very small sample size, that he can be just as good against the run with equally inconsistent flashes as a pass rusher. If anything, Pierce might deserve more of an opportunity set to show if he can bring more of an interior pass rush.

 

And guys that played better than Jernigan in that price range -- I imagine itd be pretty easy; just look at other guys on rookie deals too. Chris Jones ($700k) is one, Beau Allen ($700k) Danny Shelton ($1.4m), Arik Armstead, Deforest Buckner, Aaron Donald ($1.8m), Dominique Easley ($1.7m), Sheldon Richardson last year (1.6m), Kawann Short last year...

I could go on... but its kind of a silly premise. You're basically asking which DL also on rookie contracts are better than Jernigan. And there are quite a few better or just as good, imo.

The real question is, how many DT's who were drafted for their interior pass rushing ability, but have never shown an ability to consistently apply pressure are in demand. I dont think hes ever ranked in the Top 50 in PFF's pass rush productivity for DL's. 

As much as I like Jernigan, want him here, and hold out hope he can still put it together -- part of me believes Michael Pierce can easily be 80% of Jernigan for a fraction of the cost.... and has more time to surpass him.

You're comparing unlike positions in your last blurb. Pierce is not similar to Jernigan as a pass rusher. You aren't going to put him in as a 3T in nickel sets. That's not his role. 

[52520Andrew]

On 3/28/2017 at 8:05 PM, RayRayRaven said:

rotatashunial

Am I the only one around here who caught this? Let's sound this one out...

Ro-ta-ta-shun-ial

Great stuff, keep it coming

[Jonah DeVito]

8 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

Am I the only one around here who caught this? Let's sound this one out...

Ro-ta-ta-shun-ial

Great stuff, keep it coming

I don't read his posts anymore. 

[52520Andrew]

19 minutes ago, Jonah DeVito said:

I don't read his posts anymore. 

Yeah don't blame you here but there are too many people who get way too crazy with their arguements around here. Always fun to take a breather and laugh at the little stuff once in a while, you know?

[rossihunter2]

As much as we are arguing about Timmy's value etc. Does anyone here actually think he's going to be traded?

[Somerset Ravens]

15 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

As much as we are arguing about Timmy's value etc. Does anyone here actually think he's going to be traded?

I do not see anyone giving us a high enough pick to trade him. The only way I see a trade happening is that we trade him is for another underachieving player, which is a long shot.

Edited March 30 by Somerset Ravens

[jazz1988]

On 3/29/2017 at 8:26 AM, rmcjacket23 said:

2nd round or pick or better. Otherwise the trade doesn't really benefit us that much.

I doubt any team is going to be willing to give up  a 2nd for him so a third or fourth is only as much I can see  The Ravens getting. A third would be good for The Ravens but a  high fourth round wouldn't be bad either.  I can't pretend like The Ravens haven't had any success with lower round picks from Jarret Johnson,Dennis Pitta,Jason Brown,Leron McClain,Ovie Mughelli,Ed Hartwell, ,Edwin Mulatio, and Kyle Hugecheck (lol)  whom all have been fourth round picks.  Even right now The Ravens have fourth rounders such  as  Tavon Young , Alex Lewis, Chris Moore, Matt Judon, Kenneth Dixon. Brent Urban, Lorenzo Taliferro ,Zadarius Smith,  and Buck Allen who we all saw become  solid contributors for the team last year or are expected to be contributors for the team at some capacity.

 

If Timmy Jernigan was traded today for a high fourth round pick then I can't say it doesn't benefit The Ravens given their success with finding starters that were fourth round picks in past. Who to say they won't be able to find a starting right tackle or guard with the  fourth pick they  get from trading Jernigan or maybe even defensive tackle/end.

Edited March 30 by jazz1988

[rmcjacket23]

11 hours ago, jazz1988 said:

I doubt any team is going to be willing to give up  a 2nd for him so a third or fourth is only as much I can see  The Ravens getting. A third would be good for The Ravens but a  high fourth round wouldn't be bad either.  I can't pretend like The Ravens haven't had any success with lower round picks from Jarret Johnson,Dennis Pitta,Jason Brown,Leron McClain,Ovie Mughelli,Ed Hartwell, ,Edwin Mulatio, and Kyle Hugecheck (lol)  whom all have been fourth round picks.  Even right now The Ravens have fourth rounders such  as  Tavon Young , Alex Lewis, Chris Moore, Matt Judon, Kenneth Dixon. Brent Urban, Lorenzo Taliferro ,Zadarius Smith,  and Buck Allen who we all saw become  solid contributors for the team last year or are expected to be contributors for the team at some capacity.

 

If Timmy Jernigan was traded today for a high fourth round pick then I can't say it doesn't benefit The Ravens given their success with finding starters that were fourth round picks in past. Who to say they won't be able to find a starting right tackle or guard with the  fourth pick they  get from trading Jernigan or maybe even defensive tackle/end.

Not the point though.

From where I'm sitting, you're likely to get at least a 4th round comp pick for Jernigan, and possibly a 3rd if he fetches a big enough contract, which he likely will.

Knowing that, I'm not trading him for a pick that's in the same round of the comp pick I'm getting back. If we think we can get a 3rd from him in two years, I'm not trading him for a 3rd today. While the comp pick will be later in the round, I'm not cutting Jernigan's tenure a year short just to move up a few picks in the 3rd round. If it were the 1st round or maybe the 2nd, I'd certainly consider it. But there's not a whole lot of difference in the available talent pool between a guy picked in the 70s-80s of the draft and a guy picked in the 90s.

That's my point. I'm not trading the guy for a pick in a round that is lower than the comp pick I would expect to get. 

Ultimately I think all of this discussion is moot. I think a lot of this is floated by the media who just speculate. They speculate that we won't be resigning him after his deal is done (which we likely won't), and that means that we should or would consider trading him prior to that. Those kinds of deals don't happen very frequently in the NFL. The Patriots are basically the only team that does this with any sort of frequency, and they don't even do it as often as people think.

[redlobster]

Jernigan + a 2nd

For

Richard Sherman

 

I'll see myself out.

 

Actually Jernigan for a high 4th would be ok with me.

Edited March 31 by redlobster

[JoeyFlex5]

12 minutes ago, redlobster said:

Jernigan + a 2nd

For

Richard Sherman

 

I'll see myself out.

 

Actually Jernigan for a high 4th would be ok with me.

I'm a big Richard Sherman fan but picking up his contract in exchange for a second would be reckless. The beauty of having draft picks pan out is that they're on a rookie deal, it's why draft picks are so immensely valuable to smart gms rather than FA signings. Better contract management. 

That said, Sherman in this secondary would have me disregarding all of that and I'd be pumped

[Sherly_Tebow]

30 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I'm a big Richard Sherman fan but picking up his contract in exchange for a second would be reckless. The beauty of having draft picks pan out is that they're on a rookie deal, it's why draft picks are so immensely valuable to smart gms rather than FA signings. Better contract management. 

That said, Sherman in this secondary would have me disregarding all of that and I'd be pumped

What's shermans cap hit for this year? 11-13 million? I would trade Jernigan for him but it would hurt our cap big time, right?

[JoeyFlex5]

31 minutes ago, Sherly_Tebow said:

What's shermans cap hit for this year? 11-13 million? I would trade Jernigan for him but it would hurt our cap big time, right?

Long term cap hit is the biggest concern, that's a huge commitment for an aging player on a team who already has a strong secondary and weaknesses in a lot other places

[Purple_City39]

33 minutes ago, Sherly_Tebow said:

What's shermans cap hit for this year? 11-13 million? I would trade Jernigan for him but it would hurt our cap big time, right?

Yeah, his cap hit is 11M this year and next year.  We'd have to clear out more players to make that happen. 

[redlobster]

33 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Long term cap hit is the biggest concern, that's a huge commitment for an aging player on a team who already has a strong secondary and weaknesses in a lot other places

Longterm cap implications for Sherman wouldn't be a problem, short term would be, 2018 is the last year he is under contract but I was more making a joke as I believe he is a good CB but largely a product of that safety tandem behind him.

[JoeyFlex5]

3 minutes ago, redlobster said:

Longterm cap implications for Sherman wouldn't be a problem, short term would be, 2018 is the last year he is under contract but I was more making a joke as I believe he is a good CB but largely a product of that safety tandem behind him.

Ahh, i didn't know this was his last year. And I don't think he's a product of the safeties, he really is a great corner, he obviously benefits from it, but we run a system not too far off from Seattles and he would fit right in and having great safeties here doesn't hurt either. He'd be right at home here.

[hen826957]

2 hours ago, redlobster said:

Jernigan + a 2nd

For

Richard Sherman

 

I'll see myself out.

 

Actually Jernigan for a high 4th would be ok with me.

If we didn't sign Brandon Carr, than l would love to get Sherman but even that we don't have the space for Sherman since his cap number is very high. 13M cap hit for both of his final two years of his contract. 

[Sunday QB]

Sherman is not Raven material. He is to much self adsorbed and to much of a distraction. If we trade Jernigan it better be for a 2nd round pick or a player of equal talent.

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, Sunday QB said:

Sherman is not Raven material. He is to much self adsorbed and to much of a distraction. If we trade Jernigan it better be for a 2nd round pick or a player of equal talent.

sherman is not self absorbed, hes a superstar and hes competitive. sherman is no worse than steve smith, as a matter of fact i think hes a lot more respectful and contained as a personality, sherman doesnt throw hands at the end of every play.

[PurpleHorseman]

We should of signed Claiborne. A player who potentially could be as effective as Sherman. Yes there was risk with injuries. But the payoff reward is as good as it gets. Because he has skills to be a real shutdown cornerback at a cheaper price.

Could you imagine our secondary fronting Weddle Jefferson Jimmy Smith and Claiborne? If everybody plays that is the best in the NFL. Then ravens would have a chance to draft Foster to tandem with Mosley. LB's with speed to cover like safety's. And could really lay the wood. The defense would be no fly.

[JoeyFlex5]

32 minutes ago, PurpleHorseman said:

We should of signed Claiborne. A player who potentially could be as effective as Sherman. Yes there was risk with injuries. But the payoff reward is as good as it gets. Because he has skills to be a real shutdown cornerback at a cheaper price.

Could you imagine our secondary fronting Weddle Jefferson Jimmy Smith and Claiborne? If everybody plays that is the best in the NFL. Then ravens would have a chance to draft Foster to tandem with Mosley. LB's with speed to cover like safety's. And could really lay the wood. The defense would be no fly.

too risky. we dont need some high upside high injury risk corner, we need a steady and healthy proven commodity, brandon carr is exactly what this secondary needed.