[News] Byrne Identity: A Little Bit Of This And A Little Bit Of That

[balfan23]

7 minutes ago, The Mom Gene said:

I think the front office is well aware.  Just remember, we are not done yet.  Offseason is barely started.  But you are right.  It's just that some people have a very difficult time comprehending that.  They just WANT to pick on Joe.  It's their mantra.  And we will continue to hear the very same garbage until he wins another SB.

Understood that we're not done yet. However, thus far the majority of the teams available resources have been expended on defense. Sure, we're going to try to address the obvious short-comings of these O line and WR positions, but we're going to end up having to do that somewhat on the cheap. The team does still have available resources through the draft, but by all accounts, the draft is very defense heavy and is short on offensive talent in the trenches. We could shock the world and go high at the WR position, but I'm not sure we can adequately address both areas via the draft. 

No doubt, we've seen this team pull off the "diamonds from the rough" moves in the past, but counting on that is a risky proposition. I still think the O line is the greatest area of worry. 

[The Mom Gene]

2 hours ago, balfan23 said:

Understood that we're not done yet. However, thus far the majority of the teams available resources have been expended on defense. Sure, we're going to try to address the obvious short-comings of these O line and WR positions, but we're going to end up having to do that somewhat on the cheap. The team does still have available resources through the draft, but by all accounts, the draft is very defense heavy and is short on offensive talent in the trenches. We could shock the world and go high at the WR position, but I'm not sure we can adequately address both areas via the draft. 

No doubt, we've seen this team pull off the "diamonds from the rough" moves in the past, but counting on that is a risky proposition. I still think the O line is the greatest area of worry. 

I think most teams do that anyway.  It's a crap shoot most times.  Ummmm, Brady at 199???  Come on, there are no guarantees anywhere.  And I agree that the O-Line is our biggest need.  Give Joe time, and he'll hit anyone that's open.

[balfan23]

Just now, The Mom Gene said:

I think most teams do that anyway.  It's a crap shoot most times.  Ummmm, Brady at 199???  Come on, there are no guarantees anywhere.

Of course ... high draft picks and big contract FAs can be busts and cap casualties and mid-low draft picks can surprise. But it is the law of averages. We've committed the majority of our resources so far on the defensive side of the ball. I think we're all interested in seeing how we're going to address our offensive shortcomings, either via draft or low-end FA. 

[billiejean]

8 hours ago, sizzlingdoom said:

In this draft, I'd probably do it for a 3rd as well. It would have to be in the top half of the 3rd though.
Getting as many picks in the 2-80 range in this draft is huge
On a related note, the browns have so many picks this draft and next year. Of course they've been a joke for so long, but that really might come to and end soon. They have a good coach, they just beefed up their oline nicely, and they might add Garret, Watson, and a lot more. There are bound to be a number of teams that just absolutely nail the first 3 rounds of this draft. It's going to go so far for the whole organization, for so long. Hopefully we're one of those teams

Still with you there doom.  I draw the line at 4 though.  Even if its a high 4, there would have to be some other forms of compensation if the highest picks we get are in the 4th.  I am pretty certain that the FO wouldn't let him go for that kind of pocket change though.  It looks like we are taking another one out of Bills book though. He did the same thing with two of his top linebackers last year.  It could be just a fad like the last one.  I dont think Marshall Yanda lined up in the slot at all last year. The Browns are going to be tough next year.  They picked Emmanuel Ogbuh in the early second last year and he kind of flew under the radar but he played well.  Him and Garret are going to be force.  And speaking of the LBs Bill traded last year, Jaime Collins signed a long term deal. There NT Sheldon really came into his own last year as well. But really its going to come down to QB play.  Very few QBs come in and light things up their rookie year like Dak did.  Hue got those guys to buy in last year.  If they play well this year Hue is going to be a huge reason for their success.  I will say that I think they made some odd decisions in FA this year and previous years for that matter.  Letting go of Mack and Shwartz is crazy especially when the draft pick you took in the first a few years ago to replace one of those guys has played terribly.  Its not iike they didnt have the cap space.  One thing I know is that we got lucky when they took Manziel and not Carr.  We should probably send the homeless guy who convinced Jimmy Haslam to take Manziel a gift basket or something.  Its the least we could do

Edited March 25 by billiejean

[billiejean]

4 hours ago, balfan23 said:

Understood that we're not done yet. However, thus far the majority of the teams available resources have been expended on defense. Sure, we're going to try to address the obvious short-comings of these O line and WR positions, but we're going to end up having to do that somewhat on the cheap. The team does still have available resources through the draft, but by all accounts, the draft is very defense heavy and is short on offensive talent in the trenches. We could shock the world and go high at the WR position, but I'm not sure we can adequately address both areas via the draft. 

No doubt, we've seen this team pull off the "diamonds from the rough" moves in the past, but counting on that is a risky proposition. I still think the O line is the greatest area of worry. 

Yea I agree with the O line assessment.  I know feeling confident about FO decision making ability has gone out of style, but I have to think when they traded Zuttah that the FO was confident that they would be able to fill those voids some how.  I am sure they have a plan, and whole lot of back up plans to get some more beef in here.  And as long as none of those plans include bringing Jah Reid back into the fold, I have faith in the guys making decisions. 

Edited March 25 by billiejean

[RavensBaltimore]

  On Friday, March 24, 2017 at 11:36 AM, RavensBaltimore said:

  On Friday, March 24, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Bat-mite said:

Flacco is not a guy like Brady who elevates the play of the people around him. Flacco needs a strong OL and talented WRs. If we can get them, he will put the ball in their hands, and we will win games. If we go into the season with an OL of similar quality to last year, then Flacco will spend all his time backing up and throwing off his back foot. I can't believe the FO is unaware of that fact; however, we have not seen any indication of what the OL or receiving corps are going to look like,

People say this all the time, and the facts continue to prove that it isn't remotely close to being true. If Flacco doesn't elevate the play of those around him, then how does Torrey Smith go from averaging over 800 yds and 7 tds to being virtually worthless in SF? Steve Smith was better at 35 and 36 with Joe than he was in his last couple years with CAR. Did he age backwards or did playing with Joe help him out? Mike Wallace's career was taking a nose dive until last year. Ed Dickson even had much better receiving numbers with Joe than he's had in CAR. We've never seen one receiver fail to be productive with Flacco and then light it up somewhere else. Never. Not even close. Meanwhile, whenever Brady gets hurt, his backup comes in and plays very well and wins games, but Brady gets credit for making others better and Flacco does not.

Sorry. Everything is situational. I disagree with just about all of this. Comparing Torrey being on the worst team in the league this year, vs getting his multiple deep shots every game with Joe doesn't make sense. Steve Smith was better at 35 and 36 with Joe??? You can't be serious! Steve Smith is a triple crown winner! A HOFamer. And those 2 massive accomplishments had nothing to do with playing with Joe. Once Again, like Torrey, Mike is a one trick pony. And like Torrey, he was stuck on 2 teams without a QB, and definitely without a QB that can throw the deep ball. Wallace lit it up with Ben cuz he could throw it deep. Stats never tell the whole story. And Ed Dickson?Really, Ed Dickson? I'll leave that one alone. And are you really comparing Joe to Brady, with any sentence or comparison at all. As much as I hate Brady, that's just dumb. And that's not true about Brady's backups. They still win a lot cuz BB is ridiculous, and far and away the best coach. And their D is always underrated for some reason. Brisset is a 3rd round pick, came in and played the Bills at home. The patriots did not score a single point. Yet Brady put up 38 points and 4tds, in 3 quarters, in Buffalo. Flacco has not received much help when it comes to providing him with a legit #1, but he also doesn't elevate those around him much, if at all. He can throw a deep ball, and I would love to see us get back to that. But the coaching has a lot to do with that. I think the line will turn out well too. Between the coaches and Flacco's play last year, I just really hope I can forget about it to be honest. It was embarrassing. New season coming up though. I would imagine Joe's knee is feeling better. But if his heart isn't in it, it won't matter. I'm not bashing Joe, but he should not be compared to Brady. Last year was his worst year imo and it's in the past. We need to get the man a John Ross, or Corey Davis. Ju Ju would be GREAT too!

Not one of your excuses holds water. 62 of Wallace's 72 catches last year were for FEWER than 20 yds, as were the majority of Torrey's catches in Baltimore, so saying the drastic difference in production is only because of the deep ball is simply false. And if Wallace didn't play with a qb in Minn, then how was a rookie, late round WR able to out play him with the same qb? SSS may be a HOFer, but how many HOFers get better after 35? There was a major improvement from his final season in CAR to his first season here, and he was on pace to do even better in his second season with Joe. Again, did he age backwards? I'm not saying Joe made him a great player, but it makes no sense to say he had nothing to do with that at all. Smith even Raved about Flacco's leadership style without being asked about it. They clearly had a chemistry that wasn't there with Cam, and Joe put the ball where it needed to be. As far as Dickson goes, you left that alone because the facts prove you are wrong. He had much better numbers with Joe than with Cam. There is a consistent pattern with pass catchers playing better with Flacco than without him, which proves he DOES make players better.

You said Brady's backups win because of BB. Who do you think coaches the team when Brady plays? You cherry picked a bad game by their 3rd string, rookie qb who was playing injured, but Jimmy G, without Gronk, had a better qb rating than Brady this year.He had 3tds and 234 yds before halftime when he got hurt. I realize that's a small sample size, but they had a top 5 offense without Brady all year when he tore his acl.

[sizzlingdoom]

  19 hours ago, sizzlingdoom said:

  On 3/24/2017 at 11:36 AM, RavensBaltimore said:

  On 3/24/2017 at 11:17 AM, Bat-mite said:

Flacco is not a guy like Brady who elevates the play of the people around him. Flacco needs a strong OL and talented WRs. If we can get them, he will put the ball in their hands, and we will win games. If we go into the season with an OL of similar quality to last year, then Flacco will spend all his time backing up and throwing off his back foot. I can't believe the FO is unaware of that fact; however, we have not seen any indication of what the OL or receiving corps are going to look like,

People say this all the time, and the facts continue to prove that it isn't remotely close to being true. If Flacco doesn't elevate the play of those around him, then how does Torrey Smith go from averaging over 800 yds and 7 tds to being virtually worthless in SF? Steve Smith was better at 35 and 36 with Joe than he was in his last couple years with CAR. Did he age backwards or did playing with Joe help him out? Mike Wallace's career was taking a nose dive until last year. Ed Dickson even had much better receiving numbers with Joe than he's had in CAR. We've never seen one receiver fail to be productive with Flacco and then light it up somewhere else. Never. Not even close. Meanwhile, whenever Brady gets hurt, his backup comes in and plays very well and wins games, but Brady gets credit for making others better and Flacco does not.

Sorry. Everything is situational. I disagree with just about all of this. Comparing Torrey being on the worst team in the league this year, vs getting his multiple deep shots every game with Joe doesn't make sense. Steve Smith was better at 35 and 36 with Joe??? You can't be serious! Steve Smith is a triple crown winner! A HOFamer. And those 2 massive accomplishments had nothing to do with playing with Joe. Once Again, like Torrey, Mike is a one trick pony. And like Torrey, he was stuck on 2 teams without a QB, and definitely without a QB that can throw the deep ball. Wallace lit it up with Ben cuz he could throw it deep. Stats never tell the whole story. And Ed Dickson?Really, Ed Dickson? I'll leave that one alone. And are you really comparing Joe to Brady, with any sentence or comparison at all. As much as I hate Brady, that's just dumb. And that's not true about Brady's backups. They still win a lot cuz BB is ridiculous, and far and away the best coach. And their D is always underrated for some reason. Brisset is a 3rd round pick, came in and played the Bills at home. The patriots did not score a single point. Yet Brady put up 38 points and 4tds, in 3 quarters, in Buffalo. Flacco has not received much help when it comes to providing him with a legit #1, but he also doesn't elevate those around him much, if at all. He can throw a deep ball, and I would love to see us get back to that. But the coaching has a lot to do with that. I think the line will turn out well too. Between the coaches and Flacco's play last year, I just really hope I can forget about it to be honest. It was embarrassing. New season coming up though. I would imagine Joe's knee is feeling better. But if his heart isn't in it, it won't matter. I'm not bashing Joe, but he should not be compared to Brady. Last year was his worst year imo and it's in the past. We need to get the man a John Ross, or Corey Davis. Ju Ju would be GREAT too!

Not one of your excuses holds water. 62 of Wallace's 72 catches last year were for FEWER than 20 yds, as were the majority of Torrey's catches in Baltimore, so saying the drastic difference in production is only because of the deep ball is simply false. And if Wallace didn't play with a qb in Minn, then how was a rookie, late round WR able to out play him with the same qb? SSS may be a HOFer, but how many HOFers get better after 35? There was a major improvement from his final season in CAR to his first season here, and he was on pace to do even better in his second season with Joe. Again, did he age backwards? I'm not saying Joe made him a great player, but it makes no sense to say he had nothing to do with that at all. Smith even Raved about Flacco's leadership style without being asked about it. They clearly had a chemistry that wasn't there with Cam, and Joe put the ball where it needed to be. As far as Dickson goes, you left that alone because the facts prove you are wrong. He had much better numbers with Joe than with Cam. There is a consistent pattern with pass catchers playing better with Flacco than without him, which proves he DOES make players better.

You said Brady's backups win because of BB. Who do you think coaches the team when Brady plays? You cherry picked a bad game by their 3rd string, rookie qb who was playing injured, but Jimmy G, without Gronk, had a better qb rating than Brady this year.He had 3tds and 234 yds before halftime when he got hurt. I realize that's a small sample size, but they had a top 5 offense without Brady all year when he tore his acl.

We completely disagree........fair enough. It happens

[sizzlingdoom]

  19 hours ago, sizzlingdoom said:

In this draft, I'd probably do it for a 3rd as well. It would have to be in the top half of the 3rd though.
Getting as many picks in the 2-80 range in this draft is huge
On a related note, the browns have so many picks this draft and next year. Of course they've been a joke for so long, but that really might come to and end soon. They have a good coach, they just beefed up their oline nicely, and they might add Garret, Watson, and a lot more. There are bound to be a number of teams that just absolutely nail the first 3 rounds of this draft. It's going to go so far for the whole organization, for so long. Hopefully we're one of those teams

Still with you there doom.  I draw the line at 4 though.  Even if its a high 4, there would have to be some other forms of compensation if the highest picks we get are in the 4th.  I am pretty certain that the FO wouldn't let him go for that kind of pocket change though.  It looks like we are taking another one out of Bills book though. He did the same thing with two of his top linebackers last year.  It could be just a fad like the last one.  I dont think Marshall Yanda lined up in the slot at all last year. The Browns are going to be tough next year.  They picked Emmanuel Ogbuh in the early second last year and he kind of flew under the radar but he played well.  Him and Garret are going to be force.  And speaking of the LBs Bill traded last year, Jaime Collins signed a long term deal. There NT Sheldon really came into his own last year as well. But really its going to come down to QB play.  Very few QBs come in and light things up their rookie year like Dak did.  Hue got those guys to buy in last year.  If they play well this year Hue is going to be a huge reason for their success.  I will say that I think they made some odd decisions in FA this year and previous years for that matter.  Letting go of Mack and Shwartz is crazy especially when the draft pick you took in the first a few years ago to replace one of those guys has played terribly.  Its not iike they didnt have the cap space.  One thing I know is that we got lucky when they took Manziel and not Carr.  We should probably send the homeless guy who convinced Jimmy Haslam to take Manziel a gift basket or something.  Its the least we could do

Yeah seriously. Not only did they take Manziel, but at the same time, they passed on Mike Evans and Kalil Mack!!!! for Justin Gilbert LOL....YES.
On that same note, while I do think Adoree Jackson is a better prospect, he reminds me a lot of Justin Gilbert- an electric return guy, that is fast, that also plays corner. I'm not sure Jackson will ever be a great corner, which is scary when people just fall in love with his return ability, and talk about him as a first round pick. Some even mentioning him as a dark horse pick for us at 16?!?! AH, no thanks. It also puts things in perspective with how loaded this draft class is. Jackson probably won't go til the 2nd round, yet a much worse prospect, Gilbert, went 8th overall. Just a couple years ago too. This draft class is insane. The second round this year will be absolutely loaded with First round talent this year, no matter how the first round goes down. There's easily 50+ first round players in this draft

[rossihunter2]

1 hour ago, sizzlingdoom said:

There's easily 50+ first round players in this draft

Well I think that's a little exaggerated - I've been kind and I've graded maybe 35-40 guys as first rounders

[sizzlingdoom]

  2 hours ago, sizzlingdoom said:

There's easily 50+ first round players in this draft

Well I think that's a little exaggerated - I've been kind and I've graded maybe 35-40 guys as first rounders

Maybe. Maybe not. It would mean that 18 that are selected in the second that would go in the first in other drafts. I believe that's pretty accurate. Some drafts are pretty awful and really teeter off big time even after the first 10 players or so. I could go into greater detail about it and bring up a lot of specific players, but that would take a while. But just one player specifically-
Ju Ju Smith. After Corey Davis, I sincerely feel that Smith is the best wr in this class. I believe that he is better than Mike Williams right now, and long term. And because there's so much talent in this draft, I haven't seen Smith mocked in the first round once. It's super interesting as well that almost all their measurables are almost exactly the same. From size, to 40, to bench, to broad jump. Everything. Ju Ju has bigger hands though. I think Ju Ju is elite is just about every category, except for his 40 time. But it's the same as Williams. Smith's character and drive is top notch as well. I think Ju Ju Smith is a 20 year old version of Q that is probably more gifted athletically than Q ever was.
Smith is exactly what we need. EXACTLY. Short term and long term. He would pair so perfectly with Perriman. I hope the FO recognizes that. Considering none of these guys went in the first, and they were all exactly what we needed, and still need, it was incredibly painful for me to watch us not select them in the draft- Jarvis Landry, Keenan Allen, Michael Thomas, and Sterling Shepard. Just to name a few.
I'm very aware that we operate by the theory of "BPA" in the draft. But I just can't help but think how perfect this start would be for us in terms of need and BPA together-
Round 1: Barnett or Taco or Takk
Round 2: Ju Ju Smith

I know everyone has there own opinions. But I give the FO an "A" for Free Agency. For sure. And it's still not over.
If we could add Barnett and Ju Ju to our team, and others..............my excitement and anticipation levels for the season would be out of control. I know we would be ready. I'm already ridiculously stoked thinking our D

[hen826957]

53 minutes ago, sizzlingdoom said:

Maybe. Maybe not. It would mean that 18 that are selected in the second that would go in the first in other drafts. I believe that's pretty accurate. Some drafts are pretty awful and really teeter off big time even after the first 10 players or so. I could go into greater detail about it and bring up a lot of specific players, but that would take a while. But just one player specifically-
Ju Ju Smith. After Corey Davis, I sincerely feel that Smith is the best wr in this class. I believe that he is better than Mike Williams right now, and long term. And because there's so much talent in this draft, I haven't seen Smith mocked in the first round once. It's super interesting as well that almost all their measurables are almost exactly the same. From size, to 40, to bench, to broad jump. Everything. Ju Ju has bigger hands though. I think Ju Ju is elite is just about every category, except for his 40 time. But it's the same as Williams. Smith's character and drive is top notch as well. I think Ju Ju Smith is a 20 year old version of Q that is probably more gifted athletically than Q ever was.
Smith is exactly what we need. EXACTLY. Short term and long term. He would pair so perfectly with Perriman. I hope the FO recognizes that. Considering none of these guys went in the first, and they were all exactly what we needed, and still need, it was incredibly painful for me to watch us not select them in the draft- Jarvis Landry, Keenan Allen, Michael Thomas, and Sterling Shepard. Just to name a few.
I'm very aware that we operate by the theory of "BPA" in the draft. But I just can't help but think how perfect this start would be for us in terms of need and BPA together-
Round 1: Barnett or Taco or Takk
Round 2: Ju Ju Smith

I know everyone has there own opinions. But I give the FO an "A" for Free Agency. For sure. And it's still not over.
If we could add Barnett and Ju Ju to our team, and others..............my excitement and anticipation levels for the season would be out of control. I know we would be ready. I'm already ridiculously stoked thinking our D

I like your idea and l like Ju Ju as well but l also want one of those top corners. I wonder can we trade back in the second round and get a top corner. I really want Ozzie to be aggressive in this draft. My dream scenario, sign Zach Brown. l wish that Ozzie was interested but doubtful. He deciding between Oakland and Miami right now and he wants 6M a year but he's still on the market. I wish we could give a 3 year 18M deal but it might be too much l guess. Then 1st round draft Derek Barnett, 2nd round Juju Smith, then trade back in the 2nd round a grab a corner Sidney Jones or Desmond King. Might have to give up a 3rd rounder and maybe a 4th but l think it's worth it. I don't know the details though if that deal were so sort of happen. Desmond King is a playmaker at corner and can be at safety so when Eric Weddle is gone in the future, he could take that safety spot or taking Sidney Jones. He might miss half the season on the PUP list, but we could afford to do that because we got Carr and then we could let him slowly contribute to the defense in the middle of the season. That's is 3 decent players in the top 100 that l'm will be happy for. 👍

Edited March 26 by hen826957

[rossihunter2]

35 minutes ago, sizzlingdoom said:

Maybe. Maybe not. It would mean that 18 that are selected in the second that would go in the first in other drafts. I believe that's pretty accurate. Some drafts are pretty awful and really teeter off big time even after the first 10 players or so. I could go into greater detail about it and bring up a lot of specific players, but that would take a while. But just one player specifically-
Ju Ju Smith. After Corey Davis, I sincerely feel that Smith is the best wr in this class. I believe that he is better than Mike Williams right now, and long term. And because there's so much talent in this draft, I haven't seen Smith mocked in the first round once. It's super interesting as well that almost all their measurables are almost exactly the same. From size, to 40, to bench, to broad jump. Everything. Ju Ju has bigger hands though. I think Ju Ju is elite is just about every category, except for his 40 time. But it's the same as Williams. Smith's character and drive is top notch as well. I think Ju Ju Smith is a 20 year old version of Q that is probably more gifted athletically than Q ever was.
Smith is exactly what we need. EXACTLY. Short term and long term. He would pair so perfectly with Perriman. I hope the FO recognizes that. Considering none of these guys went in the first, and they were all exactly what we needed, and still need, it was incredibly painful for me to watch us not select them in the draft- Jarvis Landry, Keenan Allen, Michael Thomas, and Sterling Shepard. Just to name a few.
I'm very aware that we operate by the theory of "BPA" in the draft. But I just can't help but think how perfect this start would be for us in terms of need and BPA together-
Round 1: Barnett or Taco or Takk
Round 2: Ju Ju Smith

I know everyone has there own opinions. But I give the FO an "A" for Free Agency. For sure. And it's still not over.
If we could add Barnett and Ju Ju to our team, and others..............my excitement and anticipation levels for the season would be out of control. I know we would be ready. I'm already ridiculously stoked thinking our D

There may well be first round talent pushed deeper into the 2nd because other teams will have different opinions on their first round grades/drafting for need - normally I think I have between 20 and 27/28 first round grades so 36 is quite a significant increase

i don't quite see the same ceiling you do on juju but I really like and enjoy his skillset - I certainly don't have a first round grade on him though - for me I'm coming around a bit on the idea of him at our 2nd pick but I'm not in love with it yet

the longer we go through this process though, the more confident I feel that the first two picks are going to be pass rusher or wide receiver at each pick - corners with 1st/2nd round talent may be aplenty in the 3rd I think

[rossihunter2]

12 minutes ago, hen826957 said:

I like your idea and l like Ju Ju as well but l also want one of those top corners. I wonder can we trade back in the second round and get a top corner. I really want Ozzie to be aggressive in this draft. My dream scenario, sign Zach Brown. l wish that Ozzie was interested but doubtful. He deciding between Oakland and Miami right now and he wants 6M a year but he's still on the market. I wish we could give a 3 year 18M deal but it might be too much l guess. Then 1st round draft Derek Barnett, 2nd round Juju Smith, then trade back in the 2nd round a grab a corner Sidney Jones or Desmond King. Might have to give up a 3rd rounder and maybe a 4th but l think it's worth it. I don't know the details though if that deal were so sort of happen. Desmond King is a playemaker at corner and can be at safety so when Eric Weddle is gone in the future, he could take that safety spot or taking Sidney Jones. He might miss have the season in the PUP list, but we could afford to do that let because we got Carr and then we could let him slowly contribute to the defense in the middle of the season. That's is 3 decent players in the draft that l'm will be happy for. 👍

I'm not sure we'd have to trade back in to the 2nd to grab a good corner - there's loads of good ones I'm projecting falling into the 3rd and even maybe 4th and other better ones I could see falling

all the guys I could see falling to the 3rd/4th of the top of my head: Moreau and awuzie maybe and then Wilson, Desmond king, tankersley, Witherspoon, kazee, elder

[hen826957]

10 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

I'm not sure we'd have to trade back in to the 2nd to grab a good corner - there's loads of good ones I'm projecting falling into the 3rd and even maybe 4th and other better ones I could see falling

all the guys I could see falling to the 3rd/4th of the top of my head: Moreau and awuzie maybe and then Wilson, Desmond king, tankersley, Witherspoon, kazee, elder

Yeah your right. 👍 Wouldn't mind either way. But if they want Sidney Jones, then they probably would have to do it that way if he somehow slips. I don't know if he will make it past the 3rd round. 

Edited March 26 by hen826957

[sizzlingdoom]

  47 minutes ago, sizzlingdoom said:

Maybe. Maybe not. It would mean that 18 that are selected in the second that would go in the first in other drafts. I believe that's pretty accurate. Some drafts are pretty awful and really teeter off big time even after the first 10 players or so. I could go into greater detail about it and bring up a lot of specific players, but that would take a while. But just one player specifically-
Ju Ju Smith. After Corey Davis, I sincerely feel that Smith is the best wr in this class. I believe that he is better than Mike Williams right now, and long term. And because there's so much talent in this draft, I haven't seen Smith mocked in the first round once. It's super interesting as well that almost all their measurables are almost exactly the same. From size, to 40, to bench, to broad jump. Everything. Ju Ju has bigger hands though. I think Ju Ju is elite is just about every category, except for his 40 time. But it's the same as Williams. Smith's character and drive is top notch as well. I think Ju Ju Smith is a 20 year old version of Q that is probably more gifted athletically than Q ever was.
Smith is exactly what we need. EXACTLY. Short term and long term. He would pair so perfectly with Perriman. I hope the FO recognizes that. Considering none of these guys went in the first, and they were all exactly what we needed, and still need, it was incredibly painful for me to watch us not select them in the draft- Jarvis Landry, Keenan Allen, Michael Thomas, and Sterling Shepard. Just to name a few.
I'm very aware that we operate by the theory of "BPA" in the draft. But I just can't help but think how perfect this start would be for us in terms of need and BPA together-
Round 1: Barnett or Taco or Takk
Round 2: Ju Ju Smith

I know everyone has there own opinions. But I give the FO an "A" for Free Agency. For sure. And it's still not over.
If we could add Barnett and Ju Ju to our team, and others..............my excitement and anticipation levels for the season would be out of control. I know we would be ready. I'm already ridiculously stoked thinking our D

I like your idea and l like Ju Ju as well but l also want one of those top corners. I wonder can we trade back in the second round and get a top corner. I really want Ozzie to be aggressive in this draft. My dream scenario, sign Zach Brown. l wish that Ozzie was interested but doubtful. He deciding between Oakland and Miami right now and he wants 6M a year but he's still on the market. I wish we could give a 3 year 18M deal but it might be too much l guess. Then 1st round draft Derek Barnett, 2nd round Juju Smith, then trade back in the 2nd round a grab a corner Sidney Jones or Desmond King. Might have to give up a 3rd rounder and maybe a 4th but l think it's worth it. I don't know the details though if that deal were so sort of happen. Desmond King is a playmaker at corner and can be at safety so when Eric Weddle is gone in the future, he could take that safety spot or taking Sidney Jones. He might miss have the season in the PUP list, but we could afford to do that because we got Carr and then we could let him slowly contribute to the defense in the middle of the season. That's is 3 decent players in the top 100 that l'm will be happy for. 👍

We are on the same page my friend

[sizzlingdoom]

  47 minutes ago, sizzlingdoom said:

Maybe. Maybe not. It would mean that 18 that are selected in the second that would go in the first in other drafts. I believe that's pretty accurate. Some drafts are pretty awful and really teeter off big time even after the first 10 players or so. I could go into greater detail about it and bring up a lot of specific players, but that would take a while. But just one player specifically-
Ju Ju Smith. After Corey Davis, I sincerely feel that Smith is the best wr in this class. I believe that he is better than Mike Williams right now, and long term. And because there's so much talent in this draft, I haven't seen Smith mocked in the first round once. It's super interesting as well that almost all their measurables are almost exactly the same. From size, to 40, to bench, to broad jump. Everything. Ju Ju has bigger hands though. I think Ju Ju is elite is just about every category, except for his 40 time. But it's the same as Williams. Smith's character and drive is top notch as well. I think Ju Ju Smith is a 20 year old version of Q that is probably more gifted athletically than Q ever was.
Smith is exactly what we need. EXACTLY. Short term and long term. He would pair so perfectly with Perriman. I hope the FO recognizes that. Considering none of these guys went in the first, and they were all exactly what we needed, and still need, it was incredibly painful for me to watch us not select them in the draft- Jarvis Landry, Keenan Allen, Michael Thomas, and Sterling Shepard. Just to name a few.
I'm very aware that we operate by the theory of "BPA" in the draft. But I just can't help but think how perfect this start would be for us in terms of need and BPA together-
Round 1: Barnett or Taco or Takk
Round 2: Ju Ju Smith

I know everyone has there own opinions. But I give the FO an "A" for Free Agency. For sure. And it's still not over.
If we could add Barnett and Ju Ju to our team, and others..............my excitement and anticipation levels for the season would be out of control. I know we would be ready. I'm already ridiculously stoked thinking our D

There may well be first round talent pushed deeper into the 2nd because other teams will have different opinions on their first round grades/drafting for need - normally I think I have between 20 and 27/28 first round grades so 36 is quite a significant increase

i don't quite see the same ceiling you do on juju but I really like and enjoy his skillset - I certainly don't have a first round grade on him though - for me I'm coming around a bit on the idea of him at our 2nd pick but I'm not in love with it yet

the longer we go through this process though, the more confident I feel that the first two picks are going to be pass rusher or wide receiver at each pick - corners with 1st/2nd round talent may be aplenty in the 3rd I think

Right on. I completely agree with that 3rd paragraph.
The only thing I see screwing up the Pass Rush and Wr combo for the first 2 rounds, in any order, is if our FO falls in love with a lineman. Like Cam Robinson per say. I hope it's not the case

[hen826957]

12 minutes ago, sizzlingdoom said:

Right on. I completely agree with that 3rd paragraph.
The only thing I see screwing up the Pass Rush and Wr combo for the first 2 rounds, in any order, is if our FO falls in love with a lineman. Like Cam Robinson per say. I hope it's not the case

I agree. Ozzie is good finding late gems of o-line in the middle rounds. I believe he found Marshal Yanda in the 3rd round and Wagner in the 5th, and many other decent ones. We could also find and o- line in free agency as well to help us out or during the cuts later on. We could just sign a o-lineman to a one year deal then find a better replacement next season.

Edited March 26 by hen826957

[sizzlingdoom]

  19 minutes ago, hen826957 said:

I like your idea and l like Ju Ju as well but l also want one of those top corners. I wonder can we trade back in the second round and get a top corner. I really want Ozzie to be aggressive in this draft. My dream scenario, sign Zach Brown. l wish that Ozzie was interested but doubtful. He deciding between Oakland and Miami right now and he wants 6M a year but he's still on the market. I wish we could give a 3 year 18M deal but it might be too much l guess. Then 1st round draft Derek Barnett, 2nd round Juju Smith, then trade back in the 2nd round a grab a corner Sidney Jones or Desmond King. Might have to give up a 3rd rounder and maybe a 4th but l think it's worth it. I don't know the details though if that deal were so sort of happen. Desmond King is a playemaker at corner and can be at safety so when Eric Weddle is gone in the future, he could take that safety spot or taking Sidney Jones. He might miss have the season in the PUP list, but we could afford to do that let because we got Carr and then we could let him slowly contribute to the defense in the middle of the season. That's is 3 decent players in the draft that l'm will be happy for. 👍

I'm not sure we'd have to trade back in to the 2nd to grab a good corner - there's loads of good ones I'm projecting falling into the 3rd and even maybe 4th and other better ones I could see falling

all the guys I could see falling to the 3rd/4th of the top of my head: Moreau and awuzie maybe and then Wilson, Desmond king, tankersley, Witherspoon, kazee, elder

I don't know who Kazee or Elder is yet. But imo, none of the others corners you just listed make it out of the second round. Maybe Witherspoon, and maybe King. But Moreau, Awuzie, and Tankersley could all go in the first imo. And Wilson will go in the first. I would bet on it. I'm a big fan. I wouldn't take him at 16, now that we have Carr. But I wouldn't be surprised, or mad if we did. I thought he was perfect for us before we signed Carr. But Carr is just a 1 year deal if we want, so who knows. But I like Carr, I think he'll be around for at least 2 years.
Having said all that there will still be corners in round 3 that would usually go in round 2 at the worst. Like you said.

[Adreme]

1 hour ago, hen826957 said:

I agree. Ozzie is good finding late gems of o-line in the middle rounds. I believe he found Marshal Yanda in the 3rd round and Wagner in the 5th, and many other decent ones. We could also find and o- line in free agency as well to help us out or during the cuts later on. We could just sign a o-lineman to a one year deal then find a better replacement next season.

O-linemen who are any good generally are not hitting free agency anymore.  Look how bad the remaining options at RT are for instance.  There has never been a greater emphasis on building a great OLine then there is right now in the NFL and since every team wants to do it those players are at a premium.

[billiejean]

3 hours ago, rossihunter2 said:

Well I think that's a little exaggerated - I've been kind and I've graded maybe 35-40 guys as first rounders

How do you determine which players get first round grades.  I ended up doing the exact opposite of that his year.  Ive never given grades, but in years past Ive tried to watch some tape in order to form an opinion on a lot of guys.  But this year I haven't allowed myself to watch one game tape because I think once I watch one I will get sucked down that rabbit hole.  i have watched some highlight tapes, but they really aren't good sources to determine a guys worth.  From that highlight tape I was really impressed with Zay Jones (and as I said the highlight tapes can be deceptive).  He has some of the most impressive body control that I have seen in a while.  He runs some nice routes as well. I would be  interested in knowing where he lines up in your receiver rankings?  

 

[rossihunter2]

10 hours ago, sizzlingdoom said:

Right on. I completely agree with that 3rd paragraph.
The only thing I see screwing up the Pass Rush and Wr combo for the first 2 rounds, in any order, is if our FO falls in love with a lineman. Like Cam Robinson per say. I hope it's not the case

Or if lattimore falls in the first round (which he won't) or a first round graded corner falls to our 2nd round pick (which could well happen)