[News] Late For Work 3/22: Tony Jefferson's Major Hat Tip To Lardarius Webb; Dennis Pitta's Restructure

[BR News]

Tony Jefferson said he’ll give No. 21 back to Lardarius Webb if he returns. Dennis Pitta is taking a pay cut for 2017 and 2018. Did the Ravens try to retain Kamar Aiken? Baltimore is in line for two comp picks.

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[Bat-mite]

I don't understand Pitta's restructure. Guy comes off a major injury where he sat out most of two seasons and collected injured pay, then comes back and has the best year of his career and leads all TEs in receptions, and gets asked to take less money?

I am happy about it in that it frees up cap room so we can get some talent at WR and OL, but I really don't get it.

[budman]

4 minutes ago, Bat-mite said:

I don't understand Pitta's restructure. Guy comes off a major injury where he sat out most of two seasons and collected injured pay, then comes back and has the best year of his career and leads all TEs in receptions, and gets asked to take less money?

I am happy about it in that it frees up cap room so we can get some talent at WR and OL, but I really don't get it.

Completely understandable. Last years numbers are misleading. No YAC, small % of catches moved the chains, mostly dump offs that that created the large number of "catches". Then there is his health. If he actually does run for yards after catch, how long can his hip hold out? I like him but pay cut is understandable.

[RaRaRavens]

“Black on blacks, no question. Those [uniforms] are their best combination.”

I agree 100%. However, remember when Harbaugh even stopped using all-black uniforms for a couple of seasons because of the "bad-boy" image it presented? What a joke! I wish we'd wear all-black more often!

[RailBird]

I don't understand Pitta's restructure. Guy comes off a major injury where he sat out most of two seasons and collected injured pay, then comes back and has the best year of his career and leads all TEs in receptions, and gets asked to take less money?

I am happy about it in that it frees up cap room so we can get some talent at WR and OL, but I really don't get it.

Maybe he realizes that because of his injury history it won't be easy to find a new team despite being the leading TE and that he kinda owes the Ravens for keeping him on the team all that time (getting paid without contributing).

[rmcjacket23]

I don't understand Pitta's restructure. Guy comes off a major injury where he sat out most of two seasons and collected injured pay, then comes back and has the best year of his career and leads all TEs in receptions, and gets asked to take less money?

I am happy about it in that it frees up cap room so we can get some talent at WR and OL, but I really don't get it.

I could argue both sides.

1. Him having the best year of his career isn't saying much, because his career numbers were never great.

2. He had a ton of catches but was pretty bad in terms of yardage. That's pretty inefficient.

3. At $5.5M, he would be paid like a top TE in the league, which he really isn't. Also takes into account the gigantic health risk associated.

[RaRaRavens]

  14 minutes ago, Bat-mite said:

I don't understand Pitta's restructure. Guy comes off a major injury where he sat out most of two seasons and collected injured pay, then comes back and has the best year of his career and leads all TEs in receptions, and gets asked to take less money?

I am happy about it in that it frees up cap room so we can get some talent at WR and OL, but I really don't get it.

Completely understandable. Last years numbers are misleading. No YAC, small % of catches moved the chains, mostly dump offs that that created the large number of "catches". Then there is his health. If he actually does run for yards after catch, how long can his hip hold out? I like him but pay cut is understandable.

@Bat-mite

All what budman said, and in addition consider demand-supply ratio. Ravens have an abundance at TE, with younger, more explosive and even a more experienced options on the depth chart.

Sure, Pitta's had a (somewhat) solid year and he didn't have to take a paycut. It was the same with Ngata couple of years back and he decided not to take a paycut. But since he had become replaceable, he was traded. It's a similar case with Pitta.

Glad he took the paycut, though. Now let's hope Flacco targets someone else, too, for a change.

[ellicottraven]

Joe Flacco listens to Pitta on just about everything including his personal grooming it seems. So, Joe take a cue from Pitta and help the team out man! Take a pay cut so we can get you more help. It's about time you helped the team out in a meaningful way.

[RavensDieHard21]

Sidney Jones potentially available for this season?🤔 Ozzie make the moves to grab this guy in the second!! Hopefully teams sleep on him and he end up in our laps 

[Bruce_Almty]

It appears Sidney Jones will play this season.

[rmcjacket23]

Joe Flacco listens to Pitta on just about everything including his personal grooming it seems. So, Joe take a cue from Pitta and help the team out man! Take a pay cut so we can get you more help. It's about time you helped the team out in a meaningful way.

He's not taking a paycut from the $6M base salary he's due this year, which is the only part that he can actually take a paycut from.

[rmcjacket23]

It appears Sidney Jones will play this season.

Still doubt it. At best, I think he ends up on a PUP list for whoever drafts him, meaning he misses half the season.

Basically a redshirt year for him. Rookie corner coming off a major injury with like 6 months to recover... not worth the risk.

[hen826957]

3 hours ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

Sidney Jones potentially available for this season?🤔 Ozzie make the moves to grab this guy in the second!! Hopefully teams sleep on him and he end up in our laps 

I would to love to get Sidney Jones in the 2nd round now since he would be still playing this season but l'm worried that this injury might have loss his full potential. He might still be drafted in the 1st now after that news but in the second round, l wouldn't mind trading up for him. I just hope he doesn't lose a step after that injury. The Cowboys might take him at the end of the 1st round round since both Carr and Claiborne left. 

Edited March 22 by hen826957

[billiejean]

Joe Flacco listens to Pitta on just about everything including his personal grooming it seems. So, Joe take a cue from Pitta and help the team out man! Take a pay cut so we can get you more help. It's about time you helped the team out in a meaningful way.

There has been a total of zero starting QBs in recent memory who have decided to take less money than the amount that was agreed upon at the time when they signed their contracts. QBs have shuffled their money around to give teams more cap room but they are still getting the amount of money that was offered to them in their contract. And really all that does is kick the can down the road. Joe is not going to going to take a paycut. It's really an unprecedented move.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

  1 hour ago, Bat-mite said:

I don't understand Pitta's restructure. Guy comes off a major injury where he sat out most of two seasons and collected injured pay, then comes back and has the best year of his career and leads all TEs in receptions, and gets asked to take less money?

I am happy about it in that it frees up cap room so we can get some talent at WR and OL, but I really don't get it.

I could argue both sides.

1. Him having the best year of his career isn't saying much, because his career numbers were never great.

2. He had a ton of catches but was pretty bad in terms of yardage. That's pretty inefficient.

3. At $5.5M, he would be paid like a top TE in the league, which he really isn't. Also takes into account the gigantic health risk associated.

Not only that... he got paid while injured and we didnt waiver on that.

Plus, he probably realizes that he wouldnt stand to make what he'll probably make here over the next 2 years in the open market (especially now that everyones gobbled up TEs, and the draft is historically good at the position).

Agreeing to the pay cut all but guarantees he'll be here for the next 2 years at a pretty good salary, on the team he wants to be with, where his family is comfortable, with a QB who he is a security blanket for which prob helps his future earning potential.

[RaRaRavens]

44 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

Joe Flacco listens to Pitta on just about everything including his personal grooming it seems. So, Joe take a cue from Pitta and help the team out man! Take a pay cut so we can get you more help. It's about time you helped the team out in a meaningful way.

Spot on, brother!

[rmcjacket23]

  56 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

  1 hour ago, Bat-mite said:

I don't understand Pitta's restructure. Guy comes off a major injury where he sat out most of two seasons and collected injured pay, then comes back and has the best year of his career and leads all TEs in receptions, and gets asked to take less money?

I am happy about it in that it frees up cap room so we can get some talent at WR and OL, but I really don't get it.

I could argue both sides.

1. Him having the best year of his career isn't saying much, because his career numbers were never great.

2. He had a ton of catches but was pretty bad in terms of yardage. That's pretty inefficient.

3. At $5.5M, he would be paid like a top TE in the league, which he really isn't. Also takes into account the gigantic health risk associated.

Not only that... he got paid while injured and we didnt waiver on that.

Plus, he probably realizes that he wouldnt stand to make what he'll probably make here over the next 2 years in the open market (especially now that everyones gobbled up TEs, and the draft is historically good at the position).

Agreeing to the pay cut all but guarantees he'll be here for the next 2 years at a pretty good salary, on the team he wants to be with, where his family is comfortable, with a QB who he is a security blanket for which prob helps his future earning potential.

I wouldn't say he's guaranteed a roster spot in 2018. The difference between this year and last years paycut is that he agreed to a cut for more than just that season.

As it stands now, he would create $3M in cap savings with a cut after this season, with only $2.2M in dead money. Anytime there's decent cap savings AND the cap savings is more than the dead money, you're almost always on the roster bubble.

A similar season to last season likely means he stays. Any injuries or decrease in production and he's a prime cut candidate. I think all this agreement does is guarantee him a roster spot for 2017, but definitely not in the future.

[hen826957]

3 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

3 hours ago, Bruce_Almty said:

It appears Sidney Jones will play this season.

Still doubt it. At best, I think he ends up on a PUP list for whoever drafts him, meaning he misses half the season.

Basically a redshirt year for him. Rookie corner coming off a major injury with like 6 months to recover... not worth the risk.

Probably... but if the Ravens drafted him in the second round and that he had to miss 6 games on the PUP list, we won't have no problem with that since we sign Carr. After the 6 games has passed, Sidney Jones can slowly contributed to the defense. The only real risking question is that will he lose a step in the NFL since his injury? Will he lose his full potential? Will he still be the same Sidney Jones in college?

Edited March 22 by hen826957

[RaRaRavens]

8 minutes ago, billiejean said:

There has been a total of zero starting QBs in recent memory who have decided to take less money than the amount that was agreed upon at the time when they signed their contracts. QBs have shuffled their money around to give teams more cap room but they are still getting the amount of money that was offered to them in their contract. And really all that does is kick the can down the road. Joe is not going to going to take a paycut. It's really an unprecedented move.

What a load of hogwash.

First, restructuring does not necessarily mean a player gets paid less. Converting base salary into bonus money pays the player the exact amount as before, just now some of that money is guaranteed. It's always risky for a team, but it's a common tool to lower a player's cap hit.

Secondly, plenty of QBs have done it. Brady and Big Ben have both done it at least 2 times in the past 5 years if I remember correctly.

Edited March 22 by RaRaRavens

[stixfix69]

What a season Pitta had after missing the better part of the last two seasons, again he was a top TE in catches, yep i was impressed......

[fusuymada]

  50 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

Joe Flacco listens to Pitta on just about everything including his personal grooming it seems. So, Joe take a cue from Pitta and help the team out man! Take a pay cut so we can get you more help. It's about time you helped the team out in a meaningful way.

Spot on, brother!

Amen!!!! Have been saying that since the last snap of last season. Brees, Brady, P. Manning etc... all took pay cuts after they had enough money to last their families through 5 generations and Flacco is now in that boat as well. I feel if he doesn't help the team now, we need to look for his replacement because as soon as that contract gets to a manageable amount for dead money (which is in 2 years) he needs to be let go. The team paid him for his good years and now he either needs to take a pay cut, or have an MVP season or I would say send him down the road. Even after 2 years, he is still in the top 5 QBs in the league in cap money though he is in the bottom 5 starting QB's in performance. We need to draft a QB this year so he is ready in two years when we need to let Flacco walk.

[billiejean]

33 minutes ago, RaRaRavens said:

What a load of hogwash.

First, restructuring does not necessarily mean a player gets paid less. Converting base salary into bonus money pays the player the exact amount as before, just now some of that money is guaranteed. It's always risky for a team, but it's a common tool to lower a player's cap hit.

Secondly, plenty of QBs have done it. Brady and Big Ben have both done it at least 2 times in the past 5 years if I remember correctly.

What a load of Baloney 

I never said that restructuring meant a player gets payed less.  I said exactly the opposite. Did you miss this line... "shuffled their money around to give teams more cap room but they are still getting the amount of money that was offered to them in their contract". Brady and Ben have done what exactly ?  Taken less  money than the agreed upon amount in their contract. Nope.  Go back and carefully read what I wrote and if you still dont think it is true than give me an example of when Ben or Brady took less money than their contract promised.  The closest that a QB has come to taking less money than their contract stipulated was Manning in his last year in Denver.  He freed up some cap space and actually did leave money on the table, but there were performance incentives which would allow him to recoup that money.  He went to the Super Bowl which means he did get the money after all.  As you mentioned restructuring does not mean that they are getting paid less.

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/02/26/nfl-salary-cap-explained

"Players with numerous cap restructures, such as Fitzgerald and Ben Roethlisberger, might leave behind tens of millions of cap charges, limiting the teams’ future ability to compete."   And as I said restructuring kicks the can down the road.

Edited March 22 by billiejean

[billiejean]

30 minutes ago, RaRaRavens said:

What a load of hogwash.

First, restructuring does not necessarily mean a player gets paid less. Converting base salary into bonus money pays the player the exact amount as before, just now some of that money is guaranteed. It's always risky for a team, but it's a common tool to lower a player's cap hit.

Secondly, plenty of QBs have done it. Brady and Big Ben have both done it at least 2 times in the past 5 years if I remember correctly.

Heavens to Betsy 

You are remembering incorrectly Brady and Ben restructured, but they still got the amount of money agreed upon when signing their contract.

Edited March 22 by billiejean

[RaRaRavens]

7 minutes ago, billiejean said:

lol thats balderdash - I never said that restructuring meant a player gets payed less.  I said exactly the opposite. Did you miss this line... "shuffled their money around to give teams more cap room but they are still getting the amount of money that was offered to them in their contract". Brady and Ben have done what exactly ?  Taken less  money than the agreed upon amount in their contract. Nope.  Go back and carefully read what I wrote and if you still dont think it is true than give me an example of when Tom or Brady took less money than their contract promised.  The closest that a QB has come to taking less money was Manning in his last year in Denver.  He freed up some cap space and actually did leave money on the table but there were performance incentives which would allow him to recoup that money.  He went to the Super Bowl which means he did get the money after all.  As you mentioned restructuring does not mean that they are getting paid less.

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/02/26/nfl-salary-cap-explained

"Players with numerous cap restructures, such as Fitzgerald and Ben Roethlisberger, might leave behind tens of millions of cap charges, limiting the teams’ future ability to compete."   And as I said restructuring kicks the can down the road.

Sorry! Misread your comment, my bad.

 

You are right about not many QBs agreeing to a paycut. But I don't think anyone is expecting Flacco to necessarily take less money, just "shuffle it around" like you pointed out that other QBs have done to provide some cap relief. 

[RavensDieHard21]

1 hour ago, hen826957 said:

I would to love to get Sidney Jones in the 2nd round now since he would be still playing this season but l'm worried that this injury might have loss his full potential. He might still be drafted in the 1st now after that news but in the second, l wouldn't mind trading up for him. I just hope he doesn't lose a step after that injury. The Cowboys might take him at the end of the 1st round round since both Carr and Claiborne left. 

I guess his recovery will tell. Thank God for modern medicine and rehabilitation processes because these types of injuries used to ruin careers. I think year 1 would be a wash as he will need to recovery then get back up to speed the rest of the season. 

Investing a second rounder for a guy that was arguably the best in class is worth it to me. The question will be whether other teams are willing to make the move before us 

[Halshayeji]

2 hours ago, Bat-mite said:

I don't understand Pitta's restructure. Guy comes off a major injury where he sat out most of two seasons and collected injured pay, then comes back and has the best year of his career and leads all TEs in receptions, and gets asked to take less money?

I am happy about it in that it frees up cap room so we can get some talent at WR and OL, but I really don't get it.

I'm with you on this one. I appreciate that pitta took a pay cut when he honestly didn't have to agree to that much of a cut.  But also factor in last year he did take a 4 mil cut but recouped 3 mil of that and it counts against the cap this year.

just to keep rhings simple, he'll probably get most of it back if he starts and plays most games but if he gets hurt then the Ravens are off the hook. 

[billiejean]

Just now, RaRaRavens said:

Sorry! Misread your comment, my bad.

 

You are right about not many QBs agreeing to a paycut. But I don't think anyone is expecting Flacco to necessarily take less money, just "shuffle it around" like you pointed out that other QBs have done to provide some cap relief. 

There actually is a QB in the league that takes less money than he deserves.  But he doesn't take less money than the agreed upon amount in his contract. When negotiating his contract he knowingly takes much less than he's worth in order to help the team. And that is Brady.  Some guys will take discounts to stay with a certain team but those discounts are nowhere near the amount that Brady leaves on the table.

[Halshayeji]

Mad respect to Jefferson. "If Webb comes back the number is 100percent his" wow!

On a side note, turns out Carr doesn't factor in the comp formula. Which kind of explains why Ozzie is not willing to sign anyone that does. A third round comp for Wagner would be a nice thank you to Baltimore. 

[Tdot.to.Bmore]

I am really impressed with the moves made this year. I think were building a strong team and we'll continue that trend in the draft. It impossible to fill ever hole up with top notch players but if we can shore up the Oline and get a pass rusher of quality then were set for the year. We obvs need another WR but that can be a vet on a minimum contract or through the draft. To me, i dont think adding a WR is that important. We have Wallace and Perriman on the sides and Pitta roaming the middle to move the chains. How many teams out there can say they have a competent player at every position? 

[hen826957]

19 minutes ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

I guess his recovery will tell. Thank God for modern medicine and rehabilitation processes because these types of injuries used to ruin careers. I think year 1 would be a wash as he will need to recovery then get back up to speed the rest of the season. 

Investing a second rounder for a guy that was arguably the best in class is worth it to me. The question will be whether other teams are willing to make the move before us 

Yeah... the Cowboys probably might get him in the end of the first round. 👍

Edited March 22 by hen826957