OJ Howard

[JoeyFlex5]

This guy has got to be the most perplexing guy in this draft class to me. His potential is enormous, but hes incredibly unproven, he LOOKS the part of the TE that flexes out wide often because he can run like a WR, he has a wingspan and catch radius unlike anyone joe has ever had, and he could be the type of guy that joe has needed so badly, and this could be the only chance we have to get joe a talent like this, this pick has far more upside to turn things around for us than potentially any other player who could realistically be available at 16, but there is plenty of risk and downside... 

he was used as an H-back and in-line blocker mostly at alabama, this is a good and bad thing, he has been as dominant a blocker you can find at TE, shielding off DLs and hitting the second level and driving LBs and box safeties out of the play, couldnt ask for more, he has held up well as a pass protector in the backfield and has been lethal as a dump-off option when lined up as a back on 3rd down. BUT, you dont draft an OJ Howard at 16 and ask him to pick up blitzes and catch backfield dump-offs, you want this guy downfield on every passing down, you want him threatening   with that speed and boxing out and making contested catches, you want your qb to feel comfortable tossing it up there so he can go up and get it, but we have almost no idea if he can be that guy because of how hes been used. the only film where he really shows his stuff as a real TE was in the senior bowl, in limited capacity he looked good vs weak competition, and other than that we have no evidence that he can do what we want our star TE to do. 

i began talking about this in another thread that was about how the team is shaping up to maybe prefer offense early in the draft, and it got me thinking more about the possibility of OJ Howard as a raven. I am so torn on this guy, can anyone sway me one way or another?

[ravensnation5220]

I honestly think this guy is a top 10 pick. Or should be the only problem is the tight end position isn't valued as high as others. He's the best tight end prospect to come out in the past 10 years and I'm not the only one to say that. Even coming out of high school he was viewed as the best tight end prospect in the past decade.....

 

I don't worry about the "unproven" label. He was totally underutilized at Alabama. They run a spread system and they have so many athletes everyone can only get so many touches but when they needed plays from him he made them. Especially in the big games. 

Hes a blue chip prospect with an enormous ceiling and a high floor to go with it. The guy ran a 4.52 at 6'6 250. Thats incredible. I've actually been starting to believe he won't make it to us at 16, one of those guys I would not pass on with any doubt. He's going to be ungaurdable in the NFL. He's one of the more sure things in the draft in my eyes. And like I said. The best tight end prospect I've seen in the past 10 years maybe even longer.

Oh and btw, no need to worry about character. Kids got smarts to go with that God gifted talent

 http://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/sec-on-cbs-scholar-athletes-alabamas-oj-howard-and-floridas-austin-appleby/amp/

http://bamahammer.com/2016/11/03/o-j-howard-named-senior-class-award-finalist/

Edited March 19 by ravensnation5220

[ravensnation5220]

Heres some more persuasion 

[Jacquouille]

Tbh if TE was a more sexy postion he'd be up there with Garett. If there was any doubts about him due to Bama's system, he shut them down completely at the SB. I also saw him in the drills at the combine and his smoothness and feet quickness is unreal for his size.

I'm still looking for a flaw in his game.

[lgcs27288]

You guys make a compelling case for him. Based on information provided here, I could see the Ravens taking him because he could help the oline when needed or be the chain mover needed. Essentially killing 2 birds with 1 stone.

 

That said, we have loads if young TE talent already on the team. While he could be a generational talent, I just think there are more dire needs, but hey, Alabama and BPA right?

[RavensDieHard21]

I will agree he is a freak athlete and will likely be a good player, but based on team needs and the other prospects that could be available, I just couldn't fathom taking a TE. 

Pitta is still decent, Williams basically only played his rookie year and is still incredibly young too. Gilmore is a great blocker and a smash mouth TE but he just gets hurt too often and isn't fast enough to gain separation.

I realistically would rather hope Engram was there in the second if anything. 

[raven94]

This is a tough subject. Honestly JoeyFlex I think you should think about it this way, A) he might be gone by our pick, so no need to worry about being torn about it. Ever since the senior bowl and the combine his stock has risen faster than steam in a sauna. He has been constantly mocked inside the top 12. I personally think he's elevated himself into that top tier of prospects along with Hooker, Adams, Fournette, Garret, Lattimore etc... 

 

And I love O.J. Howard. He can block which seems to be a concern Ravens FO has for tight ends  (minus the pitta Dickson experiment), he can run (that much is certain about him), he has an A++++ character  (never got the ball, never complained), and if he does get the ball he can make explosive plays with it that are worth at least 40 yards. This would cause defenses to account for him and could open up other players. He loves the seam route and so does Flacco. All of this makes me want O.J. especially since, as already stated, he's the best tight end prospect to come out in such a long time. On top of all of this the NFL is a match up league and O.J. Howard can be an asset as a blocker, he can indeed do the juszyk role in the backfield and get the ball much easier, he should outrun just about all linebackers so if he's covered by a linebacker because safeties fear our speed at WR then he wins that match up. Your fear is if he's covered by a safety and it's a tight window can he go up and get it? Personally, unless it's Kam Chancellor covering him, I think the only way he can't at least draw a PI call is if he trips over himself. 

 

The case against O.J.? Unproven, I agree, we have plenty of "talent" at the position, I somewhat agree. These are the only points against O.J. let's look at them 

1) the talent we have at TE is, besides pitta and to an extent Gilmore, also unproven. Waller is still working on it (I think he could be good), Boyle is one more failed drug test away from being kicked off the team or being suspended for another year, Maxx was popular but hasn't seen the field. I think there's lots of potential here, but since both O.J. and our group are really unproven you have to look at ceilings and O.J. has a higher one.

2) O.J. being unproven is impossible to refute and that certainly adds to the mystery of the boom or bust idea of him. But I will say this, with McCarron and Coker they actually occasionaly found O.J. when he was covered and he can make solid catches while carrying a defender, although with a limited sample size.

 

Long post I know, in the end I think if he's the BPA when we pick plus the depth of pass rushers and corners in this draft you take him

[Jacquouille]

I'm also really curious to see what kind of monster Roman can turn him into.

[raven94]

9 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

I'm also really curious to see what kind of monster Roman can turn him into.

Oh good point!

[Edgar]

I'm not adverse to him catching dump offs. I wouldn't worry about him being used that way as much as he might have been in college.

I stated two months ago that he might well be the BPA at sixteen and was told I was high as a kite. I feel the same about him, though it seems he may be gone before we pick( after the combine performance).

You want to run the ball? He provides great inline blocking. 

You want Joe to have weapons? To me he is so multidimensional it's a no brainer if he's there.

I think the convincing you need is the same that I need. It isn't the player....it's our coaching staff. Will they get the most out of this guy?

Do they have a plan to threaten all over the field ?

Frankly, I'm not sure I have faith that they do. In that regard alone, I would lean toward not taking him in favor of an edge player or even a wideout.

[Number23]

Not to be that guy, but considering how exceptional Howard is in his athleticism and catching, do you think a team might view him as a potential WR? I figured if so then that might increase his stock.

[ravensnation5220]

I see a lot of people here saying he could be great but he doesn't fill a NEED. Since when do the ravens draft because of NEED. We draft BPA and Howard could be that. And if we have a logjam at tight end you can always trade those guys to right end needy teams. 

[KentuckyProud]

Considering Flacco is the most consistent QB in the league at throwing 3 yard passes I'd love to see what he'd be able to do with Howard. QB/TE connection is important so it's hard to compare productivity but this may be the missing piece for Flacco since Pitta initially started getting injured, plus there are plenty of receivers I'd be happy with in the middle rounds

[RavensDieHard21]

1 hour ago, ravensnation5220 said:

I see a lot of people here saying he could be great but he doesn't fill a NEED. Since when do the ravens draft because of NEED. We draft BPA and Howard could be that. And if we have a logjam at tight end you can always trade those guys to right end needy teams. 

Ya that's the thing. We really won't get much for them and have invested heavily in the position. A CB, G, RT, or Edge rusher would help this team out. The problem with the team is we surrendered the most go ahead TDs the last two years. We also have no push in the run game because we have a small finesse line. Adding Howard might help RZ efficiency but I don't think it will matter if we don't have a run game or a coordinator creative enough to get him open.  

[rossihunter2]

3 hours ago, ravensnation5220 said:

I see a lot of people here saying he could be great but he doesn't fill a NEED. Since when do the ravens draft because of NEED. We draft BPA and Howard could be that. And if we have a logjam at tight end you can always trade those guys to right end needy teams. 

need is a factor in establishing value on the board and therefore factors in to BPA - and with regards to trading tight ends away: why would other teams take our unproven tight ends when they know we will likely cut 1/2 at the end of training camp anyway... this paired with the apparent depth at tight end in the class

[lgcs27288]

4 hours ago, ravensnation5220 said:

I see a lot of people here saying he could be great but he doesn't fill a NEED. Since when do the ravens draft because of NEED. We draft BPA and Howard could be that. And if we have a logjam at tight end you can always trade those guys to right end needy teams. 

I think the whole BPA thing is a little overblown... at least in the early rounds. I dont think it is purely BPA, but BPA based on need.

[RayRayRaven]

11 hours ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

I will agree he is a freak athlete and will likely be a good player, but based on team needs and the other prospects that could be available, I just couldn't fathom taking a TE. 

Pitta is still decent, Williams basically only played his rookie year and is still incredibly young too. Gilmore is a great blocker and a smash mouth TE but he just gets hurt too often and isn't fast enough to gain separation.

I realistically would rather hope Engram was there in the second if anything. 

 

50 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

need is a factor in establishing value on the board and therefore factors in to BPA - and with regards to trading tight ends away: why would other teams take our unproven tight ends when they know we will likely cut 1/2 at the end of training camp anyway... this paired with the apparent depth at tight end in the class

 

4 hours ago, ravensnation5220 said:

I see a lot of people here saying he could be great but he doesn't fill a NEED. Since when do the ravens draft because of NEED. We draft BPA and Howard could be that. And if we have a logjam at tight end you can always trade those guys to right end needy teams. 

sheez, we restructure pitta, we got Gilmore, boyle Watson, Williams and wallar. and we need to draff anotha tight end? 

if we need to draff anotha tight end someon needs firing

[ravened]

How the board goes no one knows, but I would go: 1) Mike Williams 2) Derek Barnett 3) Howard. I believe, Barnett is our best shot at being there. If we did have a

shot at Howard, then I would try and trade one of our cluster of tight ends for a pick.

[rossihunter2]

9 minutes ago, ravened said:

How the board goes no one knows, but I would go: 1) Mike Williams 2) Derek Barnett 3) Howard. I believe, Barnett is our best shot at being there. If we did have a

shot at Howard, then I would try and trade one of our cluster of tight ends for a pick.

i think its way more likely williams is there than barnett but id maybe be ok with howard as the pick although i wouldnt love the pick - this idea though that another team would trade for some of our "trash" at tight end is laughable - what have our tight ends shown that they are worth giving up a pick for? especially given the promising tight end class and the fact that our tight ends would not be under contract for 4 years but less than that - crockett has 1 year left, boyle and maxx and waller have 2 each - why would a team give up a pick for guys with maximum 2 years left on their contract?

[rossihunter2]

32 minutes ago, lgcs27288 said:

I think the whole BPA thing is a little overblown... at least in the early rounds. I dont think it is purely BPA, but BPA based on need.

BPA already includes need in its assembly - BPA would have to include need or a team would potentially take a franchise qb with a qb already on the roster if thats how the board fell for example - need is inherently involved in the valuing of prospects on the ravens big board - but they will stick to that board religiously on draft day which is all BPA really means

[terps85]

I'd say there is a .05% chance he is there at 16.  He is a much better prospect than Ebron who went top 10 a couple years ago.  Read a story/tweet (don't remember the source) that the Titans want him at 5 to pair with Walker.

[ravensnation5220]

15 minutes ago, terps85 said:

I'd say there is a .05% chance he is there at 16.  He is a much better prospect than Ebron who went top 10 a couple years ago.  Read a story/tweet (don't remember the source) that the Titans want him at 5 to pair with Walker.

I've honestly been thinking the titans might actually take home there. Didn't read anything in it but I thought they'd be a perfect fit. 

[Jacquouille]

7 hours ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

Ya that's the thing. We really won't get much for them and have invested heavily in the position. A CB, G, RT, or Edge rusher would help this team out. The problem with the team is we surrendered the most go ahead TDs the last two years. We also have no push in the run game because we have a small finesse line. Adding Howard might help RZ efficiency but I don't think it will matter if we don't have a run game or a coordinator creative enough to get him open.  

You do know Howard has cleared huge running lanes for the past two years right?