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ALSKAN RAVEN FAN

Ravens Sign Brandon Carr

168 posts in this topic

37 minutes ago, Edgar said:

He's on their list behind several guys offensively but he certainly fits the playmaker label.

OJ is a no brained to me.

I'd be all for us taking Reddick.....but I have to wonder where that leaves Correa.

It leaves Correa with a fire under his butt to fight for playing time, it's not that I don't like Correa but I see this benefiting him in the long run if it gets him on his heels and to the starting spot. I haven't seen film on Reddick, but if he's what people are saying he is I like him as a pick up if we trade back

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58 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

corey davis is not just a first rounder, hes easily a top 15 player - he played against a couple of big ten teams this year and still consistently beat his opposite corner, he runs routes well and creatively which is independent of who's covering him, he catches better than anyone else in the class (maybe zay jones challenges him here), he has great length, good speed on film - obviously the level of competition doesnt help his case but his traits can be judged independently - the only thing that might worry me is press coverage just because he rarely finds himself up against it

i very rarely worry about film outside of the most recent year - ohio state had a ridiculous secondary this year and last so im not too worried given that i disagree about the wisconsin game - i saw him win the route early and the qb just wasnt looking his way e.g. theres a play at the beginning of the 2nd quarter where he beats the corner almost straight off the snap and the qb is zoned in on the other side of the field - just because he didnt get a huge number of catches/targets doesnt mean he wasnt winning his matchups - the level of competition also affects his teammates as well - he goes against worse cbs but also has a much worse qb - in that wisconsin game he made plays with very little help from the rest of his team - i saw him win route after route in 1v1 coverage but not get the ball and twice made something out of nothing - once for his touchdown and the other on a batted ball for a critical first down

corey davis definitely can become a number 1 in this league he has all the tools - my worry is a little of his speed which obviously without running a 40 cannot be reassured but its not like that's a surprise he was never expected to really run at either because of his injury - the thing that persuades me most i think is how polished and creative he is when he runs his routes already - (watch voch lombardi's video on him if you want to see what i mean)

You don't have to sell me on Davis. I like him a lot. 

And I'm not giving my opinion. I'm relaying reports that many scouts don't see Davis as a top pick. And the only big 10 school Davis did well against was Mich St 2x ('15 and '13). Struggled against Ohio St and Wisconsin - the only big programs he played against his senior year. 

And I love what I see on tape from Davis but you do have to wonder if the tape would look as good playing against elite athletes. Especially his senior year, a lot of his production came from a handful of MONSTER games against bad bad teams. I think he only had like 4-5 games with 100 yds. 

Hes got great body control, excellent hands, and good enough route running for his size but a lot of his wow grabs NFL defenders would break up 9/10 times and it's fair to question if he has the athleticism to continually win/separate against NFL athletes.

I wouldn't hate him at 16... just don't be surprised if he falls to the 20's and is the 3rd receiver off the board. 

There are reportedly a lot of teams concerned about him not testing (bc even around a 4.5 would just confirm his NFL athleticism at his size.... not running shows at least a concern from his camp that he might run slower than that and 4.6ish would knock him down some pegs, justified or not).

Also reportedly a lot of teams view him as a #2 ceiling, def not a guy that can lead your receiving corps day 1.

 

i don't necessarily agree -- but if a lot of people a lot smarter than me when it comes to evaluating aren't sold... I'm not as confident spending a top pick when there's so much other talent in our range.

 

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1 hour ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Good post man. Hope your right. I like the moves we've been making. Hopefully we can get a pass rusher or receiver in round one and help our online in rounds 2-3. I like what we are doing let's just hope we can build a good scheme that fits to flaccos strengths 

I don't think we're desperate for a WR as much as people think we are, but from a BPA stance I'd love to pick up Davis. If he's not available, nor any other good sliders, I think we go Tim Williams, Marlon Humphrey, or Cam Robinson (which I'm reluctant to say that we'd pick him up, but I'm gradually seeing that it's possible). The most likely being Tim, and I say Humphrey because I think Lattimore will definitely be gone and Wilson will probably be gone as well. I like Humphrey, but I think a lot of things will have to happen to solidify him as a Raven.

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8 minutes ago, Edgar said:

Or draft a stud CB who wins a starting job.

After Lattimore idk that a sure fire stud is there at 16.  I'd be happy with either Humphrey or Wilson but I don't think the drop off is that huge to the next group of guys. 

And if everyone goes CB crazy it gives us the chance to grab elite talent that wouldn't otherwise fall to us. Zig when everyone else zags. 

Obviously if they love a CB and he's sitting there -- take him. Carr doesn't prohibit that at all. 

 

But if you think a guy like Conley, White, Jackson, King, Howard Wilson, or even later guys like Curtrer, Decoud, Elder, etc.... who may not be the day 1 plug in stud but has the raw traits to develop into one... Carr now gives us the flexibility to be patient. 

Or be the team that can afford to take the earliest risk on Sidney Jones in the 2nd.

And I truly think there are guys that can be had in rounds 2-6 with the upside to be just as good as some of the top guys. 

 

My point was simply that earlier if we'd have had two closely rated players at 16 one being a CB that's slightly lower rated than a pass rusher, LB or offensive weapon I'd have said CB all day. I was sold Lattimore, Jones, Humphrey or Wilson would be the pick. 

Now we have the luxury of taking the highest rated player no matter what and really take advantage of the depth at CB and other teams dire need for them to our advantage. 

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Just saw on NFL.com that the Carr contract is essentially a 1 yr contract with the only guaranteed money in year 1

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4 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

After Lattimore idk that a sure fire stud is there at 16.  I'd be happy with either Humphrey or Wilson but I don't think the drop off is that huge to the next group of guys. 

And if everyone goes CB crazy it gives us the chance to grab elite talent that wouldn't otherwise fall to us. Zig when everyone else zags. 

Obviously if they love a CB and he's sitting there -- take him. Carr doesn't prohibit that at all. 

 

But if you think a guy like Conley, White, Jackson, King, Howard Wilson, or even later guys like Curtrer, Decoud, Elder, etc.... who may not be the day 1 plug in stud but has the raw traits to develop into one... Carr now gives us the flexibility to be patient. 

Or be the team that can afford to take the earliest risk on Sidney Jones in the 2nd.

And I truly think there are guys that can be had in rounds 2-6 with the upside to be just as good as some of the top guys. 

 

My point was simply that earlier if we'd have had two closely rated players at 16 one being a CB that's slightly lower rated than a pass rusher, LB or offensive weapon I'd have said CB all day. I was sold Lattimore, Jones, Humphrey or Wilson would be the pick. 

Now we have the luxury of taking the highest rated player no matter what and really take advantage of the depth at CB and other teams dire need for them to our advantage. 

Yeah, there are a lot of positives to Carr's deal.

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8 minutes ago, purpletide said:

I don't think we're desperate for a WR as much as people think we are, but from a BPA stance I'd love to pick up Davis. If he's not available, nor any other good sliders, I think we go Tim Williams, Marlon Humphrey, or Cam Robinson (which I'm reluctant to say that we'd pick him up, but I'm gradually seeing that it's possible). The most likely being Tim, and I say Humphrey because I think Lattimore will definitely be gone and Wilson will probably be gone as well. I like Humphrey, but I think a lot of things will have to happen to solidify him as a Raven.

I agree on Williams or Humphrey. Would be really happy with either. 

Cam I could see being the pick but only in a trade back scenario. Which is plausible Bc if pass rushers, CBs, safeties, the top WRs or even RBs fly off the board fast I could see us taking advantage of a team that's desperate to land Ross/Davis, McCaffery/Cook, Baker/Obi, a CB, etc...

and us trading back 5-8 spots, still landing Robinson and picking up some extra picks in the 2nd-4th rounds where were bound to still have highly rated prospects available.

 

then we could hit CB with a Sidney Jones, nab a falling Williams or 2nd tier guy, and hit a Kupp Or Zay Jones and hit all our big needs with top 50-75 players.  

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8 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

After Lattimore idk that a sure fire stud is there at 16.  I'd be happy with either Humphrey or Wilson but I don't think the drop off is that huge to the next group of guys. 

And if everyone goes CB crazy it gives us the chance to grab elite talent that wouldn't otherwise fall to us. Zig when everyone else zags. 

Obviously if they love a CB and he's sitting there -- take him. Carr doesn't prohibit that at all. 

 

But if you think a guy like Conley, White, Jackson, King, Howard Wilson, or even later guys like Curtrer, Decoud, Elder, etc.... who may not be the day 1 plug in stud but has the raw traits to develop into one... Carr now gives us the flexibility to be patient. 

Or be the team that can afford to take the earliest risk on Sidney Jones in the 2nd.

And I truly think there are guys that can be had in rounds 2-6 with the upside to be just as good as some of the top guys. 

 

My point was simply that earlier if we'd have had two closely rated players at 16 one being a CB that's slightly lower rated than a pass rusher, LB or offensive weapon I'd have said CB all day. I was sold Lattimore, Jones, Humphrey or Wilson would be the pick. 

Now we have the luxury of taking the highest rated player no matter what and really take advantage of the depth at CB and other teams dire need for them to our advantage. 

Didn't mean at 16. I'm thinking 2nd or 3rd round guys in this draft, maybe later that could beat him out and start.

Edited by Edgar
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I'm surprised at how much signing Carr has got me more excited for the draft. 

Took my expectations of what the possibilities were in the top 2-3 rounds and just blew them wide open. 

In reality though I'm sure it hasn't changed the FO's draft plan much if at all. 

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1 hour ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Ya man. His interviews have went well to say the least. After watching more film on him I think he may be the most polished pass rusher in this class. He's excellent at using his hands, he has very good hand placement 

Man, if Garrett wasn't such a ridiculous athletic freak I'd really struggle to put him ahead of either Barnett or Williams in terms of pass rushing ability - Barnett for me is the most polished but Williams feels vicious (I don't know how else to describe it)

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1 minute ago, rossihunter2 said:

Man, if Garrett wasn't such a ridiculous athletic freak I'd really struggle to put him ahead of either Barnett or Williams in terms of pass rushing ability - Barnett for me is the most polished but Williams feels vicious (I don't know how else to describe it)

Williams has answers and options. He sets guys up and drops the hammer. He's actually quite rare and I'm fine with him as a run defender who can improve.

He strikes fear in tackles.

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1 minute ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

I'm surprised at how much signing Carr has got me more excited for the draft. 

Took my expectations of what the possibilities were in the top 2-3 rounds and just blew them wide open. 

In reality though I'm sure it hasn't changed the FO's draft plan much if at all. 

I think Carr opens up our draft WAY more than Claiborne would've. Carr's a solid starter without missing any games and Claiborne would require us to look for a guy that would have to start instantly in a pinch cause of how likely it would be that either Claiborne or Jimmy go down. Carr allows us to be more confident that we could give a CB time to develop before having to throw him at the wall and seeing if he sticks. This allows us to take a BPA much more easily with this need not being as dire.

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32 minutes ago, purpletide said:

It leaves Correa with a fire under his butt to fight for playing time, it's not that I don't like Correa but I see this benefiting him in the long run if it gets him on his heels and to the starting spot. I haven't seen film on Reddick, but if he's what people are saying he is I like him as a pick up if we trade back

No. It leaves him in a lurch , at least inside. Talented guy but he won't compete with Reddick. Watch him.

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44 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

You don't have to sell me on Davis. I like him a lot. 

And I'm not giving my opinion. I'm relaying reports that many scouts don't see Davis as a top pick. And the only big 10 school Davis did well against was Mich St 2x ('15 and '13). Struggled against Ohio St and Wisconsin - the only big programs he played against his senior year. 

And I love what I see on tape from Davis but you do have to wonder if the tape would look as good playing against elite athletes. Especially his senior year, a lot of his production came from a handful of MONSTER games against bad bad teams. I think he only had like 4-5 games with 100 yds. 

Hes got great body control, excellent hands, and good enough route running for his size but a lot of his wow grabs NFL defenders would break up 9/10 times and it's fair to question if he has the athleticism to continually win/separate against NFL athletes.

I wouldn't hate him at 16... just don't be surprised if he falls to the 20's and is the 3rd receiver off the board. 

There are reportedly a lot of teams concerned about him not testing (bc even around a 4.5 would just confirm his NFL athleticism at his size.... not running shows at least a concern from his camp that he might run slower than that and 4.6ish would knock him down some pegs, justified or not).

Also reportedly a lot of teams view him as a #2 ceiling, def not a guy that can lead your receiving corps day 1.

 

i don't necessarily agree -- but if a lot of people a lot smarter than me when it comes to evaluating aren't sold... I'm not as confident spending a top pick when there's so much other talent in our range.

 

I don't wanna be mean but it's almost like you didn't actually read my whole post - I gave answers to a lot of these concerns (you don't have to agree but I specifically referenced and responded to a lot of what you've brought up)

1) the not running the 40 is a non-starter for me as an issue - he is injured and it was never really likely he would be able to recover in time for either the combine or his pro-day

2) his tape against Ohio state is not from his most recent year... this year he played against Illinois and Wisconsin where the box scores were not entirely indicative of his production - he was pretty dominant at times in the Wisconsin game but his qb was lost at sea all game - Davis was beating these big ten corners off the snap, he had 1 drop but more than made up for it by making a couple of miracle catches including a crazy touchdown catch - there were at least 2 snaps (from memory) in that Wisconsin game where Davis beat the corner he was facing virtually from the snap but the qb didn't even look his way

3) I also haven't been seeing the same reports you've been seeing - a lot of media scouts have him as either the number 1 or number 2 receiver in the class and most have him going before the Ravens pick in their mock drafts - the only sources that seem to have any reservations at all are the ones anonymously quoted in Bucky brooks notes on Davis and only one of them thought he was a wr2 - I always take everything that's put out like that with a pinch of salt because it's all part of the game

4) it's important to remember that it isn't only the negative that counts in scouting as well - there are also a large number of scouts who apparently are sold on him which should reassure you as much as the guys who aren't as sure - it's also important to remember that very few draft prospects are ever "clean" or "perfect" - mike Williams is someone some scouts have also show reservations about for very different reasons but similarly valid 

Edited by rossihunter2
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1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Yeah he seems like he's really a good kid who is just a bit dumb off the field, he is very humble, respectful, well spoken, and he redirects all the accolades to his teammates without thinking about it. A dude who speaks the way he does in interviews and then plays with such intensity on the field is a big plus, he shows leadership 

Idk about well spoken, but he does chose his words carefully

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1 hour ago, Edgar said:

He's always been the pure pass rusher in this class.

Funny how much people's opinion are suddenly changing on this guy.

 

I always thought he was the best pure pass rusher. I just thought he was more raw when I initially watched him

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1 minute ago, ravensnation5220 said:

I always thought he was the best pure pass rusher. I just thought he was more raw when I initially watched him

Sorry. I didn't mean for that to sound like I was directing that your way.

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3 minutes ago, Edgar said:

Sorry. I didn't mean for that to sound like I was directing that your way.

No worries. I know what you mean. I think a lot of people (including myself) wrote him off as a potential candidate for our 16th pick after his championship game and his off feild issues, which don't seem to be as big an issue as we once thought

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1 hour ago, Edgar said:

No. It leaves him in a lurch , at least inside. Talented guy but he won't compete with Reddick. Watch him.

I wouldn't be so quick to assume that if we draft Reddick it's to put him inside. 

Not so sure I buy that line of thinking... though it is a popular one. 

I think he's got everything it takes to be a very good edge rusher in the NFL. 

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1 hour ago, rossihunter2 said:

I don't wanna be mean but it's almost like you didn't actually read my whole post - I gave answers to a lot of these concerns (you don't have to agree but I specifically referenced and responded to a lot of what you've brought up)

1) the not running the 40 is a non-starter for me as an issue - he is injured and it was never really likely he would be able to recover in time for either the combine or his pro-day

2) his tape against Ohio state is not from his most recent year... this year he played against Illinois and Wisconsin where the box scores were not entirely indicative of his production - he was pretty dominant at times in the Wisconsin game but his qb was lost at sea all game - Davis was beating these big ten corners off the snap, he had 1 drop but more than made up for it by making a couple of miracle catches including a crazy touchdown catch - there were at least 2 snaps (from memory) in that Wisconsin game where Davis beat the corner he was facing virtually from the snap but the qb didn't even look his way

3) I also haven't been seeing the same reports you've been seeing - a lot of media scouts have him as either the number 1 or number 2 receiver in the class and most have him going before the Ravens pick in their mock drafts - the only sources that seem to have any reservations at all are the ones anonymously quoted in Bucky brooks notes on Davis and only one of them thought he was a wr2 - I always take everything that's put out like that with a pinch of salt because it's all part of the game

4) it's important to remember that it isn't only the negative that counts in scouting as well - there are also a large number of scouts who apparently are sold on him which should reassure you as much as the guys who aren't as sure - it's also important to remember that very few draft prospects are ever "clean" or "perfect" - mike Williams is someone some scouts have also show reservations about for very different reasons but similarly valid 

Haha and I'll respond the exact same way. Don't think u read my post. 

I'm not arguing your points and haven't. You're not convincing me. 

I'm sharing with you what I've read from reliable sources connected with several NFL FO's and scouts that have been chatting about prospects on the pro day circuit. 

The testing can be a non starter for you. Doesn't change that it's apparently a red flag for a lot of evaluators. 

You can like the route running you see on tape. Doesn't change the fact that apparently a good portion of FOs aren't convinced he'll be able to consistently separate in the NFL and it looks better on tape bc he's essentially a man amongst boys. 

And if you want to point to Wisconsin as proof he can win against NFL talent.... doesn't change the fact that the only NFL prospect at CB on that team is Sojourn Shelton whose a 5'9" 170 lb utter and complete mismatch against a 6'3" 220 lb Davis. 

The two times he faced actual NFL level competition in a secondary at Ohio St he struggled. Not just production it's his worst tape. 

Whether you acknowledge them or not they're legitimate and fair concerns  just as the positives you've pointed to are fair and legitimate  

 

Again. I still like him. It's not about discrediting or ignoring your opinion.... unless you think your opinion should sway a sizeable group of actual NFL FO execs and scouts. 

I'm reiterating opinions they're sharing with media.

 

all I simply said is I prefer Williams at this point bc he's now put legit high 4.4 speed on record to go with his domination of the best college football has to offer. 

Davis I think has more upside for an all around game. 

I see Williams as sure to impact day 1 and likely be legit #1. At this point I need hit at 16. I'd prefer not to go WR if possible just bc of the volatility at the position... but of the two I think there's less questions to Williams ability to impact at the next level. 

Edited by BOLDnPurPnBlacK
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9 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

I wouldn't be so quick to assume that if we draft Reddick it's to put him inside. 

Not so sure I buy that line of thinking... though it is a popular one. 

I think he's got everything it takes to be a very good edge rusher in the NFL. 

I don't really have a set position for him other than linebacker. Maybe a will linebacker but itd be different in our scheme. He can't really set the edge but he excels at chasing down plays from the backside, blitzing and can cover tight ends and running backs. He's an instant impact player because of his ability to cover and rush the qb

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6 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

I don't really have a set position for him other than linebacker. Maybe a will linebacker but itd be different in our scheme. He can't really set the edge but he excels at chasing down plays from the backside, blitzing and can cover tight ends and running backs. He's an instant impact player because of his ability to cover and rush the qb

I agree he's got a ton of athleticism and diverse skill set. I think he could be a very good ILB. 

My only point was... if I'm taking him it's bc of his ability to rush the passer. And bc of that I'm not sticking him at ILB in our 3-4 base to only use him on blitzes or have him dropping him in coverage a bunch. 

Hes gonna be hunting QBs off the edge. Period. 

And bc of that I don't see him impacting Correa at all. 

Edited by BOLDnPurPnBlacK
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5 hours ago, The Raven said:

we've got a lot of money tied up in the secondary right now. Anyone at all worried about all the money tied up in the defense?

not at all.

the offense still has about 30 mil more tied up into them.

we actually have at this point the 4th cheapest defense in the NFL lol

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2 hours ago, Tru11 said:

not at all.

the offense still has about 30 mil more tied up into them.

we actually have at this point the 4th cheapest defense in the NFL lol

That was a prime example of somebody not doing research before posting. 

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13 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Everyone tweeting and talking about Carr's active streak and all that.... STOP TEMPTING FATE.

my gosh, our luck now Mo Claiborne starts all 16 and Carr's injured week 2 for the year.

 

cant we have nice things people?

 

Yeah I thought this myself made me think of E.Monroe first how he had never missed a game in his career then came here became Unbreakable character Elijah Price.   

Or when we signed D.Foxworth whom had been mostly healthy then boom ACL and career was over. 

 

The one thing that makes this different is Carr is clearly a stop-gap player that could play himself into longer tenure. 

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If this isn't the best pool of talent in secondary i dont know what is.   

The only issue i see is chemistry and teamwork.    We are in it to see some serious magic happen in the secondary if things align right.   Going to be one amazing show this season to watch these guys.

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5 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

I wouldn't be so quick to assume that if we draft Reddick it's to put him inside. 

Not so sure I buy that line of thinking... though it is a popular one. 

I think he's got everything it takes to be a very good edge rusher in the NFL. 

This. I don't see him as an inside guy, I may have said the same about correa but they are very different, correa doesn't have much bend to his game and doesn't know how to approach an OT, reddick does. I think he's more of a 43 guy but in a limited role as an edge rusher in obvious pass situations he looks a lot more ready than correa looked coming out

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36 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

This. I don't see him as an inside guy, I may have said the same about correa but they are very different, correa doesn't have much bend to his game and doesn't know how to approach an OT, reddick does. I think he's more of a 43 guy but in a limited role as an edge rusher in obvious pass situations he looks a lot more ready than correa looked coming out

Yeah I feel the same, I see Reddick as a 4-3/Nickle type of role. Blitzing LB, can cover lots of ground. I like the player. I don't think he's a top 15 but could go as high as low first top 2nd. Its hard to find a comp for him.. maybe a mix of Jamie Collins/Lawrence Timmons/Lavonte David

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Solid signing. Now the defense just needs a pass rusher and I'll be really stoked.

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2 hours ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

If this isn't the best pool of talent in secondary i dont know what is.   

The only issue i see is chemistry and teamwork.    We are in it to see some serious magic happen in the secondary if things align right.   Going to be one amazing show this season to watch these guys.

I'm not ready to say that. Carr, to me is the definition of serviceable....not a bad thing but I'm expecting us to upgrade through draft as well.

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