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[News] Ravens Trade Jeremy Zuttah To San Francisco 49ers

107 posts in this topic

8 minutes ago, hen826957 said:

Lol... whatever you say bro, his receivers are good but not elite level that's why l said "decent mediocre" just like us.  I might don't agree with your argument, but that's your opinion about Brady so l just leave it at that.  

dont need "elite" receivers to win, you people really need to let go of that silly word. That word doesnt even have a real definition, its mostly just a vague and arbitrary description you use for people you've decided to favor for any number of random criteria. it doesnt mean anything.

Brady typically has a much larger collection of "decent mediocre" receivers  than any other QB in the leauge. Most teams have 1 star (if they're lucky), 1 or maybe 2 decent guys, and then a bunch of dudes they hope they never have to put on the field. 
Brady does not ever have that problem. 

Edited by riseNConquer81
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1 hour ago, riseNConquer81 said:

dont need "elite" receivers to win, you people really need to let go of that silly word. That word doesnt even have a real definition, its mostly just a vague and arbitrary description you use for people you've decided to favor for any number of random criteria. it doesnt mean anything.

Brady typically has a much larger collection of "decent mediocre" receivers  than any other QB in the leauge. Most teams have 1 star (if they're lucky), 1 or maybe 2 decent guys, and then a bunch of dudes they hope they never have to put on the field. 
Brady does not ever have that problem. 

Didn't say that you need elite talent WRs to win. Where did you get that from? Just saying he's winning with average WRs... good not great. That's why l said Brady is a great QB and your last paragraph explains that. 

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5 hours ago, riseNConquer81 said:

it wasn't absurd at all.
What's absurd is you casual fans continually giving Brady credit for Branch, Gronkowksi, Bennett, Edelman, Vereen, Hernandez, Moss, Welker, Lewis, Lloyd, etc's work and pretending they have no talent.

Brady hardly ever works with a non great receiver...your definition of "great" is something ridiculous, rare combination of traits that hardly anybody ever has.

There are plenty of QBs that dont rely on after catch yardage as their sole means of production. Take your Brady blinders off and look around the league. Go ahead and show me ONE game where Joe Flacco threw 23 passes for 5 yards or less, including 6 behind the line of scrimmage, and left the game with 466 yards and 2 TDs. I will wait sir. 

i respect tom brady just fine. big difference between me and you is you respect him as some mythical football god that he's never been, and i respect him for what he actually is: an over-achieving 6th rounder in a great system, surrounded by lots of talent who knows all he has to do is protect the ball and let his teammates be great to get the W.
 
It's good that you're asking questions though, that's exactly how you learn better than the delusional fiction you're arguing right now. applause for that.

To say he over-achieved is insane. Systems are built for the QB, and Brady excels in the system he is in, by being the best QB in football. You also say that he can't throw the ball down the field, are you serious? Why do you think Gronk is so effective? Did you watch the deep balls he threw to Moss, the seam routes he hit Welker, Edelman, and Hogan on. I hate playing the Patriots because I know there is a great chance we are going to lose, and its not because of the playmakers they supposedly have, its because of Brady.

He makes WRs better, it's not like they make Tom Brady. You're still denying what he does as a QB and I guess you didn't look at the facts correctly....His career record is also 183-52. His PLAYOFF record is 25-9. Overall, 208-61. 5-2 in SBs. Haven't they been to 6 straight AFC championship games? Heck it might be 7. That isn't delusional fiction...that just proves he wins. If he continues to stay healthy, he will surpass every record in the book. He should have been the MVP of the league this past season. I guess all those wins were from those "playmakers" or amazing WRs that he has had. Ohh, here comes the argument about "well if he wasn't in the system he is in blah blah blah." Yeah he protects the ball, like great QBs. He gets the ball out quick, because its an effective game plan. How many times have we heard, "Flacco needs to get the ball out quicker!", He doesn't make bad decisions, he adjust his blitz pickups and finds mismatches. He also wins, which if I'm not mistaken, is pretty important in regards to how great you are...

Since you're so knowledgeable or think you are, you define what a great QB is and show me an all time great that didn't have a good supporting cast surrounding them? I will wait sir. Because everything you said didn't diminish what Tom Brady is, and that is one of the greatest of all time, if not the greatest.

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  On 3/16/2017 at 0:33 AM, YorkCountyRaven said:
  On 3/15/2017 at 8:06 PM, riseNConquer81 said:
  On 3/15/2017 at 8:02 PM, thesteve53006 said:

For those saying "Its only a 6th round pick" Adalius Thomas #186, Tyrod Taylor #180, these are Ravens picks.  Other players include Colston, Garcon, Antonio Brown, Tom Brady, Greg Hardy. There is value in the 6th, i would rather have an earlier pick in the 6th than a later, plus this way it cleared up more cap than making him a cap casualty.

Tyrod Taylor is a middling starter. 
Tom Brady is overrated. 
Greg Hardy isnt in the league anymore because he has trouble keeping his hands to himself. 
Pierre Garcon is a career sidekick receiver. 

There's not that much value in the 6th. thats why its the 6th. 

Negative Nancy alert.... Saying Tom Brady is overrated is like credibility suicide within football talk. The fact of the matter is Zuttah wasn't what we wanted at center and we got what we could for him in order to free up cap space. We received way too much pressure up the middle of the offensive line, and obviously Ozzie has plans in the future. You can get great unexpected value in the 6th round, we play against a man named Antonio Brown 2 times a year incase you didn't realize..... AKA the highest paid WR in football.

No it's not.
Saying Tom Brady is overrated shows i actually pay attention to and understand football, as opposed to casually following the crowd.
Tom Brady's a game manager that relies on playmaking after the catch to produce. always has been, always will be.

and since youre the 23874932743902743209742094th person to bring up [insert favorite rare high level player from the 6th roudn here], I'll go ahead and point out that Antonio Brown was pick number 195. Everybody's other favorite example, Brady, was #199. That actually only further proves my point that moving up 12 spots in the 6th round doesnt really mean or do much. If anything, you're better off keeping 198, according to the trend.

Regardless of where it is, a 6th round pick is a crap shoot. its hard to argue that moving up or back in the 6th round dramatically increases or decreases the value of the pick.
so like i said before, the net effect of this trade is essentially the same as if we cut him.

OK but YOU are still missing the point. Zuttah was not what our team wanted at the center position, we received wayyyyy too much pressure up the middle of the oline in passing situations Zuttah can not handle big, physical nose tackles.... Joe was extremely hesitant on any pressure coming up the middle. So... with that being said. What is your problem with getting something from a player we were going to cut?!? Also, Tom Brady who holds records for QB's in most categories is a game manager? Like I said, credibility suicide. Tom Brady literally turns average talent into top tier talent. He makes everyone around him play better... that is much more than a Game manager. You are just extremely opinionated and biased towards things that cloud your judgement.

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14 hours ago, riseNConquer81 said:

it makes perfect sense, you illustrated the point in your very next sentence, lmao.

Tom Brady has 5 rings because of awful rules and great playmakers that cover up the fact that he can't deliver the ball down field. His receivers are not and never have been mediocre at all.

(not every good receiver goes to the pro bowl, and not making it to the hall of fame doesnt mean you're totally talentless. i know those dumb arguments are coming next)

Brady is not a 1 man wrecking crew. If Brady hadn't caught on with the Patriots, he'd more than likely be a journey man who got the chance to start late in his career, played decent for a few seasons, and retired...maybe with a ring or two if he happened to get on with the right team.
He's better than a 6th round pick, but nothing incredibly special.

Congratulations. Nobody on this site will ever take you seriously in a football conversation, ever. 0 credibility my friend.

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13 hours ago, riseNConquer81 said:

dont need "elite" receivers to win, you people really need to let go of that silly word. That word doesnt even have a real definition, its mostly just a vague and arbitrary description you use for people you've decided to favor for any number of random criteria. it doesnt mean anything.

Brady typically has a much larger collection of "decent mediocre" receivers  than any other QB in the leauge. Most teams have 1 star (if they're lucky), 1 or maybe 2 decent guys, and then a bunch of dudes they hope they never have to put on the field. 
Brady does not ever have that problem. 

Elite is defined as:

" A select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group or society. "

 

Sounds to me like theres a real definition for it that is accurately applied to football.

Pretty sure you need elite players or at least performances to win.

 

In 2012 we got elite play out of Flacco and Boldin, who could have caught a ninja star from 90 yards with how well he was playing.

Edited by reed20
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On 3/17/2017 at 3:46 PM, reed20 said:
On 3/17/2017 at 1:54 AM, riseNConquer81 said:

dont need "elite" receivers to win, you people really need to let go of that silly word. That word doesnt even have a real definition, its mostly just a vague and arbitrary description you use for people you've decided to favor for any number of random criteria. it doesnt mean anything.

Brady typically has a much larger collection of "decent mediocre" receivers  than any other QB in the leauge. Most teams have 1 star (if they're lucky), 1 or maybe 2 decent guys, and then a bunch of dudes they hope they never have to put on the field. 
Brady does not ever have that problem. 

Elite is defined as:

" A select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group or society. "

 

Sounds to me like theres a real definition for it that is accurately applied to football.

 

i know the word has an actual definition.

The word as used by football fans (especially the ones around here) does not.
whatever definition you people use, it certainly isnt the one you've written here, because you guys swear dudes like Julian Edleman and Wes Welker dont count, yet you cant come up with any other 5'9" slot receivers with 4.65 40 speed who put up 1500 yards in a single season. Definitely sounds like someone "superior in terms of abilities or qualities to the rest of a group" to me.

dont let these facts stand in the way of your tireless efforts to contradict yourselves though.

In any case, it's totally beside my point either way. Like i said: elite or not, Brady has way more reliable targets on the field than pretty much every other QB at all times.

thanks for input though.

Edited by riseNConquer81
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  On 3/17/2017 at 1:29 AM, riseNConquer81 said:

it makes perfect sense, you illustrated the point in your very next sentence, lmao.

Tom Brady has 5 rings because of awful rules and great playmakers that cover up the fact that he can't deliver the ball down field. His receivers are not and never have been mediocre at all.

(not every good receiver goes to the pro bowl, and not making it to the hall of fame doesnt mean you're totally talentless. i know those dumb arguments are coming next)

Brady is not a 1 man wrecking crew. If Brady hadn't caught on with the Patriots, he'd more than likely be a journey man who got the chance to start late in his career, played decent for a few seasons, and retired...maybe with a ring or two if he happened to get on with the right team.
He's better than a 6th round pick, but nothing incredibly special.

Congratulations. Nobody on this site will ever take you seriously in a football conversation, ever. 0 credibility my friend.

doesnt bother me much when people who dont know anything about football dont take me seriously. They're doing that because they dont know anything about football. so you'll have to excuse my lack of concern. :)

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On 3/17/2017 at 9:28 AM, YorkCountyRaven said:
On 3/16/2017 at 1:18 AM, riseNConquer81 said:
  On 3/15/2017 at 11:33 PM, YorkCountyRaven said:
On 3/15/2017 at 7:06 PM, riseNConquer81 said:
  On 3/15/2017 at 7:02 PM, thesteve53006 said:

For those saying "Its only a 6th round pick" Adalius Thomas #186, Tyrod Taylor #180, these are Ravens picks.  Other players include Colston, Garcon, Antonio Brown, Tom Brady, Greg Hardy. There is value in the 6th, i would rather have an earlier pick in the 6th than a later, plus this way it cleared up more cap than making him a cap casualty.

Tyrod Taylor is a middling starter. 
Tom Brady is overrated. 
Greg Hardy isnt in the league anymore because he has trouble keeping his hands to himself. 
Pierre Garcon is a career sidekick receiver. 

There's not that much value in the 6th. thats why its the 6th. 

Negative Nancy alert.... Saying Tom Brady is overrated is like credibility suicide within football talk. The fact of the matter is Zuttah wasn't what we wanted at center and we got what we could for him in order to free up cap space. We received way too much pressure up the middle of the offensive line, and obviously Ozzie has plans in the future. You can get great unexpected value in the 6th round, we play against a man named Antonio Brown 2 times a year incase you didn't realize..... AKA the highest paid WR in football.

No it's not.
Saying Tom Brady is overrated shows i actually pay attention to and understand football, as opposed to casually following the crowd.
Tom Brady's a game manager that relies on playmaking after the catch to produce. always has been, always will be.

and since youre the 23874932743902743209742094th person to bring up [insert favorite rare high level player from the 6th roudn here], I'll go ahead and point out that Antonio Brown was pick number 195. Everybody's other favorite example, Brady, was #199. That actually only further proves my point that moving up 12 spots in the 6th round doesnt really mean or do much. If anything, you're better off keeping 198, according to the trend.

Regardless of where it is, a 6th round pick is a crap shoot. its hard to argue that moving up or back in the 6th round dramatically increases or decreases the value of the pick.
so like i said before, the net effect of this trade is essentially the same as if we cut him.

OK but YOU are still missing the point. Zuttah was not what our team wanted at the center position, we received wayyyyy too much pressure up the middle of the oline in passing situations Zuttah can not handle big, physical nose tackles.... Joe was extremely hesitant on any pressure coming up the middle. So... with that being said. What is your problem with getting something from a player we were going to cut?!? Also, Tom Brady who holds records for QB's in most categories is a game manager? Like I said, credibility suicide. Tom Brady literally turns average talent into top tier talent. He makes everyone around him play better... that is much more than a Game manager. You are just extremely opinionated and biased towards things that cloud your judgement.

I'm not missing any point.
I know we need a better center.

Didnt think i needed to restate the obvious in order to make the completely separate point that we didnt get much out of that trade.

i dont consider a minor reshuffling of our position in the 6th round to be "something" for the reason i previously explained to you. i dont think thats difficult to understand.

Tom Brady takes advantage of great talent, he doesnt turn anything into anything. when he actually has nothing but average talent to work with, he himself is average. your definition of "average" is ridiculous. How ironic you want to tell me i'm "biased" when you literally wont give anybody Tom Brady has ever played with any credit for their own talent.
Refusing to follow the uninformed popular opinion doesnt make me biased, it makes me autonomous.

Also im really tired of hearing about how you and a few other people (out of the 320 million plus in teh country) think my credibility is supposedly shot. I dont care, and that dumb ad hominem is not a substitute for a valid point. get new material.

Edited by riseNConquer81
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On 3/17/2017 at 7:49 AM, J.O.14 said:
On 3/17/2017 at 1:41 AM, riseNConquer81 said:

it wasn't absurd at all.
What's absurd is you casual fans continually giving Brady credit for Branch, Gronkowksi, Bennett, Edelman, Vereen, Hernandez, Moss, Welker, Lewis, Lloyd, etc's work and pretending they have no talent.

Brady hardly ever works with a non great receiver...your definition of "great" is something ridiculous, rare combination of traits that hardly anybody ever has.

There are plenty of QBs that dont rely on after catch yardage as their sole means of production. Take your Brady blinders off and look around the league. Go ahead and show me ONE game where Joe Flacco threw 23 passes for 5 yards or less, including 6 behind the line of scrimmage, and left the game with 466 yards and 2 TDs. I will wait sir. 

i respect tom brady just fine. big difference between me and you is you respect him as some mythical football god that he's never been, and i respect him for what he actually is: an over-achieving 6th rounder in a great system, surrounded by lots of talent who knows all he has to do is protect the ball and let his teammates be great to get the W.
 
It's good that you're asking questions though, that's exactly how you learn better than the delusional fiction you're arguing right now. applause for that.

To say he over-achieved is insane. Systems are built for the QB, and Brady excels in the system he is in, by being the best QB in football. You also say that he can't throw the ball down the field, are you serious? Why do you think Gronk is so effective? Did you watch the deep balls he threw to Moss, the seam routes he hit Welker, Edelman, and Hogan on. I hate playing the Patriots because I know there is a great chance we are going to lose, and its not because of the playmakers they supposedly have, its because of Brady.

He makes WRs better, it's not like they make Tom Brady. You're still denying what he does as a QB and I guess you didn't look at the facts correctly....His career record is also 183-52. His PLAYOFF record is 25-9. Overall, 208-61. 5-2 in SBs. Haven't they been to 6 straight AFC championship games? Heck it might be 7. That isn't delusional fiction...that just proves he wins. If he continues to stay healthy, he will surpass every record in the book. He should have been the MVP of the league this past season. I guess all those wins were from those "playmakers" or amazing WRs that he has had. Ohh, here comes the argument about "well if he wasn't in the system he is in blah blah blah." Yeah he protects the ball, like great QBs. He gets the ball out quick, because its an effective game plan. How many times have we heard, "Flacco needs to get the ball out quicker!", He doesn't make bad decisions, he adjust his blitz pickups and finds mismatches. He also wins, which if I'm not mistaken, is pretty important in regards to how great you are...

Since you're so knowledgeable or think you are, you define what a great QB is and show me an all time great that didn't have a good supporting cast surrounding them? I will wait sir. Because everything you said didn't diminish what Tom Brady is, and that is one of the greatest of all time, if not the greatest.

no its not.
he was picked in the 6th round.
His career is now 17 years old and includes 5 superbowl wins.
that's the definition of overachieving. You dont go to the 6th round to pick a 17 year starter to win 5 trophies with.
Do you people even english?

and yes i have watched Gronk and Moss beat up DBs and linebackers in mid air to snatch Tom Brady's wobbly and woefully underthrown "deep balls" and turn those disasters into positive yardage and/or points. 
Clearly you havent noticed Brady all but stopped throwing deep balls after Moss left.
2007 and 2009, Brady throws 60+ deep balls both seasons.
2010, Brady's deep ball count drops to 30 and change, lol.
not coincidence. 

[blah blah blah blah, same cliche nonsense arguments about things the Patriots achieved that im tired of responding to]
He gets the ball out quick because his receivers are the ones doing all the work anyway, that's how the offense is designed.
You complain about Joe Flacco not getting the ball out fast because if Joe Flacco dumps the ball behind the line of scrimmage 6 times like Brady does, we just punt out of our own endzone...because we dont have receivers that do what Brady's do.
If you mean to argue that Brady is such a great INDIVIDUAL player, it might help if your arguments aren't entirely founded on TEAM stats.
*skips to the last paragraph*

There is no all time great that doesnt have a good supporting cast around him which is the foundation of my point. thats why i laugh when people like you come around talking about how Tom Brady has no talent on his team and he single handedly makes all the other players good.
lmao you're hilarious. You're talking in so many circle, you're sitting here asking me rhetorical questions that literally destroy your own arguments. cool story bro, good job champ.

Edited by riseNConquer81
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I think we'll be alright without Zuttah. Time for Jensen to step up. Urschal is a guard or tackle. My biggest disappointment is losing Jus.

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  On 3/15/2017 at 7:03 PM, riseNConquer81 said:

dont have any idea what that's supposed to mean, or why you wrote 6-1 instead of just 5,

but in any case: Zuttah wasnt exactly great and he was undersized to begin with. Urschel or Jensen couldnt do much worse, but we definitely want better if we could get it.

Constantly pushed back into Joe....  Hence the statement, "“… His toughness and accountability made him a popular teammate, but Zuttah struggled at times, especially against big nose tackles.”

haha you never are going to change are you Mom. Are you still using the "he keeps getting pushed back into Joe" argument. He was pushed into Joe a whopping two times in the second game of the year. And just as I have explained to you multiple times before the decision to cut Zuttah or bring him back was dependent on one factor. And that factor has to do with what type of blocking scheme Marty is going to use the most this year. And the answer is that we are going to be primarily using a power blocking scheme. Zuttah is a much better fit for a zone team because of his mobility and athleticism. And yes when power blocking 1 on 1 with a large nose tackle he struggles. Guess what type of scheme the 49ers run. Its a zone scheme and it is the exact same offense that Kubiak ran. JZ will thrive in Shanahan's offense and I wouldn't be surprised if he had a career year. The guy is on the back 9 of his career but he finished 14 among centers last year and 9th the year before that. And yea that makes him average. I just hope that we can find a guy that is average or better than average to take his place. As of now there are no free agent centers that could fill that void. So it looks like we will be relying on a rookie or a trade. And thats risky but certainly not heard of. The Bears took a center last year in the second and ended up grading out as the 6th best center in the league.

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Just now, billiejean said:

haha you never are going to change are you Mom. Are you still using the "he keeps getting pushed back into Joe" argument. He was pushed into Joe a whopping two times in the second game of the year. And just as I have explained to you multiple times before the decision to cut Zuttah or bring him back was dependent on one factor. And that factor has to do with what type of blocking scheme Marty is going to use the most this year. And the answer is that we are going to be primarily using a power blocking scheme. Zuttah is a much better fit for a zone team because of his mobility and athleticism. And yes when power blocking 1 on 1 with a large nose tackle he struggles. Guess what type of scheme the 49ers run. Its a zone scheme and it is the exact same offense that Kubiak ran. JZ will thrive in Shanahan's offense and I wouldn't be surprised if he had a career year. The guy is on the back 9 of his career but he finished 14 among centers last year and 9th the year before that. And yea that makes him average. I just hope that we can find a guy that is average or better than average to take his place. As of now there are no free agent centers that could fill that void. So it looks like we will be relying on a rookie or a trade. And thats risky but certainly not heard of. The Bears took a center last year in the second and ended up grading out as the 6th best center in the league.

Good Ness, what is the problem? Do I need to post videos? OH yeah, they just released him for no reason..  There are options, and we don't know everything....Move on

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On 3/19/2017 at 8:23 PM, The Mom Gene said:

Good Ness, what is the problem? Do I need to post videos? OH yeah, they just released him for no reason..  There are options, and we don't know everything....Move on

I didn't say they released him for no reason Mom. I told you exactly why they released him.  They released him because Zuttah is not a guy who thrives in a power blocking system (as i mentioned in the comment above).  He is best suited for a zone blocking scheme which is why the niners wanted him (as i mentioned in the comment above). There are options but not any good ones in FA at the moment. We will pick up a few interior lineman to compete for the job in the upcoming draft (as i mentioned in the comment above).  And sure if you could post videos of Zuttah backing up onto Joe on three separate occasions I would be shocked.  Im not saying he does well in 1 on 1 power blocking situations against bigger NTs (and even some NTs that aren't so big).  In some of those situations he got backed up, but he only stepped on Joe TWICE (as i mentioned in the comment above).  Your comments and questions in your reply were ALL addressed in my previous comment.  I just repeated almost everything that I said then. If you could read what I say before replying I would appreciate it. Hea Vens To Murg A Troyd

Edited by billiejean
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On ‎3‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 0:54 AM, riseNConquer81 said:

no its not.
he was picked in the 6th round.
His career is now 17 years old and includes 5 superbowl wins.
that's the definition of overachieving. You dont go to the 6th round to pick a 17 year starter to win 5 trophies with.
Do you people even english?

and yes i have watched Gronk and Moss beat up DBs and linebackers in mid air to snatch Tom Brady's wobbly and woefully underthrown "deep balls" and turn those disasters into positive yardage and/or points. 
Clearly you havent noticed Brady all but stopped throwing deep balls after Moss left.
2007 and 2009, Brady throws 60+ deep balls both seasons.
2010, Brady's deep ball count drops to 30 and change, lol.
not coincidence. 

[blah blah blah blah, same cliche nonsense arguments about things the Patriots achieved that im tired of responding to]
He gets the ball out quick because his receivers are the ones doing all the work anyway, that's how the offense is designed.
You complain about Joe Flacco not getting the ball out fast because if Joe Flacco dumps the ball behind the line of scrimmage 6 times like Brady does, we just punt out of our own endzone...because we dont have receivers that do what Brady's do.
If you mean to argue that Brady is such a great INDIVIDUAL player, it might help if your arguments aren't entirely founded on TEAM stats.
*skips to the last paragraph*

There is no all time great that doesnt have a good supporting cast around him which is the foundation of my point. thats why i laugh when people like you come around talking about how Tom Brady has no talent on his team and he single handedly makes all the other players good.
lmao you're hilarious. You're talking in so many circle, you're sitting here asking me rhetorical questions that literally destroy your own arguments. cool story bro, good job champ.

You're so opinionated you're ridiculous. Of course all QBs have great supporting casts, but if you say Brady isn't an all time great because of his supporting cast then you are saying there isn't a great QB. I enjoy how you attack people on this site when you know nothing about their football knowledge and try to make your opinions sound like facts. You have done or said anything to make me change my stance on the fact that I know and that is Brady is a great QB. If you want to look at individual stats, do it. Go look at how good Brady is every season. Also, if his weapons are so great, do  you think Gronk would be who he is if he played for anyone else? Maybe a select few QBs could help Gronk produce the way he does. What about Edelman or Amendola? Heck even Hogan. I guess by your standards, Montana, Steve Young, Manning, etc aren't all time greats because of their supporting cast....

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13 hours ago, J.O.14 said:

You're so opinionated you're ridiculous. Of course all QBs have great supporting casts, but if you say Brady isn't an all time great because of his supporting cast then you are saying there isn't a great QB. I enjoy how you attack people on this site when you know nothing about their football knowledge and try to make your opinions sound like facts. You have done or said anything to make me change my stance on the fact that I know and that is Brady is a great QB. If you want to look at individual stats, do it. Go look at how good Brady is every season. Also, if his weapons are so great, do  you think Gronk would be who he is if he played for anyone else? Maybe a select few QBs could help Gronk produce the way he does. What about Edelman or Amendola? Heck even Hogan. I guess by your standards, Montana, Steve Young, Manning, etc aren't all time greats because of their supporting cast....

Everyone's opinionated. people who dont have opinions about things arent normal. not sure what your point is supposed to be.

I said "Tom Brady is overrated." 
I see the age old problem of posters randomly translating things i ACTUALLY say into fictitious things i NEVER said, has not subsided after all this time i've been away.

I didnt attack anybody on this site. I expressed a viewpoint and responded to failed criticism of said viewpoint. 
you must be talking about all those parrots who keep saying things like "your credibility is shot" because they otherwise cant come up with a decent argument....

i dont make my opinons sound like facts, i use facts to support my opinion. I understand how that concept confuses you, the majority of posters here don't often engage in that practice.

Do i think a 6'6, 256 tight end with Receiver speed woul be great if he played for anyone else...hmmmm, let me think about that for a minute.
lmao, you cant be serious. So what, you're telling me that Gronokowski is the only successful Tight End in the league?
What about Gronk makes you think that he cant be a good player unless noodle armed Brady is throwing deflated balls at him? i'd love to hear the rationale behind that asinine theory.

The only difference between Chris Hogan with the Bills and Chris Hogan with the Patriots. is about 200 yards, and the only reason for that is the Patriots not having a Lesean McCoy or Mike Gillislee. His number are pretty much the same, so according to you: since Chris Hogan apparently has no talent and his Quarterback is responsible for his numbers and his numbers with Brady match his numbers from the Bills, Tyrod Taylor must now necessarily be considered an "all time great."
That doesnt sound like it makes a whole lot of sense now does it? I dont think i can give you a more glaring example of the flaws in your reasoning than that. 

Edited by riseNConquer81
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On 3/18/2017 at 11:54 PM, riseNConquer81 said:

...if Joe Flacco dumps the ball behind the line of scrimmage 6 times like Brady does, we just punt out of our own endzone...because we dont have coaches that do what Brady's do.
 

*fixed

 

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