Another year of anaemic offense???

[Davesta]

I'm excited to see what mike camp can do. Hopefully his injury bug is behind him. I think he could be a great slot WR

[atomicfront]

6 hours ago, polynesian15 said:

Because he got injured the first day of TC the year before and was sidelined much of TC the following year - i.e. he had to get up to speed, get reps in, get his footing etc. Don't get me wrong I like Torrey, and he was a valuable, if one sided, down field threat for us. But he always caught the ball in his belly, and he lacked physicality in a big way. Very seldom would you see him go up and out-muscle db's - cue that last play in the AFC championship vs NE. Perriman had his rookie season last year, and despite being used sparringly he displayed incredible feats we never saw from Torrey. 
You'll be smiling midway through next season when Perriman is balling. 

Sure injuries suck, but ALL players get hurt at some point - it's part of the game. Torrey had produced more, but he didn't miss an entire season. Don't know about the drops (anyone have statistics?), but I think most of Breshad's drops will vanish next season because he's getting settled in. Torrey was a starting receiver opposit Bolding because the rest of the cast consisted of Laquan, Doss, Reed etc.
Perriman had to compete for targets against Smitty, Wallace and Aiken. You know Smitty and Wallace are the starters there, and Aiken proved productive on occasion - and again Perriman came off major injury. Not the case for Torrey.

 

Well so far Perriman hasn't produced like Torrey did.  I believe in giving him a chance to be one of our top 2 but we still need another proven wide receiver on the team.  To go into the receiving core we have now is likely to lead to a season where we don't compete.  

[52520Andrew]

3 hours ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

Same lol. You're my hero too. Until next year where you screw me over again.

I'll take things I never expected @LosT_in_TranSlatioN to say for 500

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

4 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

I'll take things I never expected @LosT_in_TranSlatioN to say for 500

"Bill Murray Sucks"

[RavensFanMania]

9 hours ago, The Raven said:

Torrey as a rookie still put up better numbers than Perriman did in his first active year. Just sayin'. And Perriman was supposedly more well-rounded with better hands. What gives?

And how many training camps has Perriman has?  This plays a difference and I'm sure with a training camp last year he gets utilized more often.  

[52520Andrew]

6 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

"Bill Murray Sucks"

If a lot of people love each other, the world would be a better place to live

[Tru11]

10 hours ago, 52520Andrew said:

Dude, you aren't confident in the offense at all, you are just setting the framework so you can complain about Flacco the second things go wrong. It is pretty obvious and is the whole reason I have been calling you out.

And you really are bad at reading, this is 3 times now where I am saying judging each play individually as opposed to taking a game or season into account is stupid. It is called sample size, it is a pretty basic thing to know. If a guy is getting pressured all the time, I would expect them to hurry things up with the expectation of being pressured. Even if he isn't, if the line is doing bad enough that the expectation of being pressured is there, then that is a problem with the line. Kinda funny how with Kubiak he had a good line right? Kinda funny how in 2012 when he had the best line he has ever had for those 4 games he went on that great run? And now that the line has regressed since Kubiak left, funny how Flacco has regressed as well? Maybe because Flacco actually trusted those lines to give him time and doesn't with the lines the past couple years. Maybe because those were good lines and having to deal with the lines of 2013 and the injured mess that was 2015(which was far more injured than the defense but of course you were blaming the offense for everything even though they were all injured) messed up his mechanics? But no, I am sure those were great lines and Flacco ended up injured both those years by tripping over his own feet. 

And here comes the contract talk. I get that but at the same time if you expect him to perform like Rodgers then you haven't been paying attention. We pay him what we pay because we have no other option if we want to stay competitive. Maybe you want organized chaos back but we only won 1 super bowl with it and it was an all time great defense that certainly hasn't been here for years. We aren't getting rid of Flacco and the contract ain't changing so either get used to it or pop in some highlights from 2006 and watch us struggle with Boller or old McNair in the playoffs. 

As for the line, We have 3 positions filled. The others are question marks. Would you be fine with a 4th round rookie starting at CB? No, you'd be crying about how little help the defense has as per usual. You probably still will find ways to cry about that this year. No different at Guard but they are offense so I guess that is fine since it doesn't fit your narrative. And that 4th round rookie may be changing positions and may be raw so again, counting on a lot for him to actually perform well this year. If all these picks and FA signings this year were on offense, you'd be crying about how little help the defense got too which is what I find funny and what I have been calling you out on this whole time. You are no better than the people you are going after so much. But lets break down that 2014 defense at this point in the offseason just so you can realize just how hypocritical you are being.

We had a freaking stud in Ngata, we had a good starter in Canty. Sizzle, Doom, McPhee were deadly, Upshaw was good against the run. We had CJ and Daryl Smith. We had a first round pick in Elam, a good FA in Kendrick Lewis. Jimmy and Webb with a 5th round pick in Chykie Brown who had time to develop and another one in Asa Jackson. That is 4 CBs for 3 spots right? Honestly that might be a better group than this offense as it has a really good front 7. Of course we learned that CB was a mess with injuries and players not developing but that is just as likely to happen with the O-line this year is my point and people being concerned about it aren't "not giving the young guys a chance", they are looking at what we have and seeing a fairly high risk in the group doing bad. And you haven't even tried to hype up the receivers yet haha. But lets break down that O-line:

Stanley is good but already missed time last year, Yanda is getting older and we had good play from LT and RG in 2013. LG,C, and RT were just terrible that year. So it is very possible those guys stay healthy and Jensen/Urschel become the next Chykie Brown or Asa Jackson and that our rookies aren't ready for the big time yet(I mean San Diego State to the NFL is a big jump and our other guy was more of a developmental pick). Heck maybe Lewis regresses and does poorly at RT. That isn't even taking injury into account.

Yes i would be fine with starting a 4th round rookie at CB.
was actually advocating that just last freaking season....

does the name tavon young ring any bells?

wanted him to start over wright and powers.
want him to start over carr this season and until humphrey shows he is better.
want him then to become the starting nickle corner.

Also calling me out?

Same people that complain when a defender misses a tackle or when a receiver drops a pass  are making excuses when the QB displays bad footwork when he gets good pass protection.

catching ,tackling are just as fundamental to their position as is proper footwork for the QB.

So who is actually unfair and showing bias when complaining about the former 2 and make excuses for the latter?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 06:22 AM by Tru11

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

13 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

Yes i would be fine with starting a 4th round rookie at CB.
was actually advocating that just last freaking season....

does the name tavon young ring any bells?

wanted him to start over wright and powers.
want him to start over carr this season and until humphrey shows he is better.
want him then to become the starting nickle corner.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ah. I knew you would bring this up..... Tavon is the exception to this rule.. Not the norm. Tavon had arguably the best rookie season for ALL CBs last year. Inclusive of Ramsey who really came on towards the end.

 

Oh. Other CBs drafted in the fourth round last year. 

 

NYJ- Justin Burris(Who?)

KC-Eric Murray 

TB-Ryan Smith

SF-Rashard Robinson(who was solid. But Tavon is better)

 

Wait, so you mean to tell me that only one of the four was an above average player? Sorry. I love me some Siragusa. But we have two proven commodities on the oline. That scares the hell out of me not just for Flacco, but for the running game. "But it's a passing league. Flacco should be able to get it done without a running game". Sorry. That line scares the hell out of me moreso than the weapons possibly could. Not only might Flacco get pressured to all hell, but we might not be able to get yards to begin with.

 

And no. Under normal circumstances I would not want us to start a fourth round CB. Hell, I was a fan of the Tavon pick and yet I remained skeptical, and he proved me wrong. 

[Tru11]

1 hour ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

Ah. I knew you would bring this up..... Tavon is the exception to this rule.. Not the norm. Tavon had arguably the best rookie season for ALL CBs last year. Inclusive of Ramsey who really came on towards the end.

 

Oh. Other CBs drafted in the fourth round last year. 

 

NYJ- Justin Burris(Who?)

KC-Eric Murray 

TB-Ryan Smith

SF-Rashard Robinson(who was solid. But Tavon is better)

 

Wait, so you mean to tell me that only one of the four was an above average player? Sorry. I love me some Siragusa. But we have two proven commodities on the oline. That scares the hell out of me not just for Flacco, but for the running game. "But it's a passing league. Flacco should be able to get it done without a running game". Sorry. That line scares the hell out of me moreso than the weapons possibly could. Not only might Flacco get pressured to all hell, but we might not be able to get yards to begin with.

 

And no. Under normal circumstances I would not want us to start a fourth round CB. Hell, I was a fan of the Tavon pick and yet I remained skeptical, and he proved me wrong. 

Id take a pylon/tackling dummy over wright.

in regards to the o-line.
He might get pressured and he might not get pressured.
If he gets pressured because of a bad o-line i already blame ozzie and the coaches like i said.
if he does not get pressured and he still has the same shitty footwork throwing off his back foot then i will blame him

what of this dont you guys understand?

pressure and bad footwork is not his fault.
no pressure and bad footwork i will blame him.

 

 

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 08:18 AM by Tru11

[polynesian15]

10 hours ago, RayRayRaven said:

only a yr away wow think i'll wait til the team actuly gets in the playofs and makes it past a rd for I say the superbowel is here

well thats cristal clear he is strugglin some wiff defence to now

u wuldnt be the firse raven to misjudge boldin, torey and jacobys worth. biggar fish than you hav dropped that ball heck even kubiac culdnt get his head rnd jacoby

 

truar words nevah written

ur askin periman to make a monument jump will have to see if firse

torrey is stil young Wallace gassed out on us last yr an we need 10 tds from him wil he delivar? likely the only reason pitta is still a raven is the injury an joe gets use to a guy and pitta is his guy.  by know the front office has to now u cant take joes go to guys from him he doan adjust well

I don't think I'm misjudging, but to each his own. I specifically stated that I like Torrey, and Boldin + Jacoby as well for that matter. I was merely comparing the talent level of the to receiver corps, and personally I don't think the SB cast was significantly more talented than the current one. That's where the discussion started. Add to that the FACT that Ozzie will add another weapon before the season - perhaps our old friend Anquan. Then I think this passing offense is ready to produce adequately along with a suffocating defense.
However, this all depends on the line blocking, the running game becoming viable, and Joe's confidence and comfort level returning to pre-injury status. 

7 hours ago, atomicfront said:

Well so far Perriman hasn't produced like Torrey did.  I believe in giving him a chance to be one of our top 2 but we still need another proven wide receiver on the team.  To go into the receiving core we have now is likely to lead to a season where we don't compete.  

We are all aware of that. Are you aware that Torrey played his rookie season allowing him to gather yards in about 32 games? Did you know that Torrey was the only dependable WR other than Anquan (that's how despicable depth was back then compared to now imo) so he had a good amount of targets as the #2? More targets usually equals better production simply through more opportunity. Did you know that Torrey hasn't really had to deal with injury throughout his career, thus allowing him to hone his craft consistently without major setbacks?

To your second point: rest assured, Ozzie will add another veteran presence to the WR corp. No need to worry about it 4 months from the season.
Perriman will get a starting shot this season. If he stays healthy throughout the season yet underperforms in a mad way; say 20 rec/190 yards/1 TD, then I'll happily agree with your statements and worries. But I hardly doubt that's gonna happen, do you?

In relation to player health and injuries: they just happen. You can only carry 53 players on the squad (and likely a max of 6 WRs) so how do you select your corp. Mediocre/aging players with no history of injury? And do you simply discard a player with immense potential and talent because he had a knee injury?  

Edited Tuesday at 09:49 AM by polynesian15

[Grapple Raven]

I don't know how much he could add to the offense, but Keenan Reynolds might not be available according to this article. The policy Keenan was under was rescinded yesterday and Keenan couldn't be reached for comment as to how this order will affect his military status.

Ravens Insider‏ @RavensInsider 5h5 hours ago

More

Department of Defense rescinds 2016 policy that helped military academy athletes defer duty to go pro http://dlvr.it/P2Tb9v 

[kjbmore]

Well this all turned into a big stinking pile of poo

[atomicfront]

3 hours ago, polynesian15 said:

I don't think I'm misjudging, but to each his own. I specifically stated that I like Torrey, and Boldin + Jacoby as well for that matter. I was merely comparing the talent level of the to receiver corps, and personally I don't think the SB cast was significantly more talented than the current one. That's where the discussion started. Add to that the FACT that Ozzie will add another weapon before the season - perhaps our old friend Anquan. Then I think this passing offense is ready to produce adequately along with a suffocating defense.
However, this all depends on the line blocking, the running game becoming viable, and Joe's confidence and comfort level returning to pre-injury status. 

We are all aware of that. Are you aware that Torrey played his rookie season allowing him to gather yards in about 32 games? Did you know that Torrey was the only dependable WR other than Anquan (that's how despicable depth was back then compared to now imo) so he had a good amount of targets as the #2? More targets usually equals better production simply through more opportunity. Did you know that Torrey hasn't really had to deal with injury throughout his career, thus allowing him to hone his craft consistently without major setbacks?

To your second point: rest assured, Ozzie will add another veteran presence to the WR corp. No need to worry about it 4 months from the season.
Perriman will get a starting shot this season. If he stays healthy throughout the season yet underperforms in a mad way; say 20 rec/190 yards/1 TD, then I'll happily agree with your statements and worries. But I hardly doubt that's gonna happen, do you?

In relation to player health and injuries: they just happen. You can only carry 53 players on the squad (and likely a max of 6 WRs) so how do you select your corp. Mediocre/aging players with no history of injury? And do you simply discard a player with immense potential and talent because he had a knee injury?  

You are saying 190 yards and 20 receptions is your over and under?  I am sure there are ton of undrafted guys out there that could do much more than that if they were top 2 on the Ravens.   Torrey put up 1100 yards in his third season. I would say anything under 800 yards would be a big disappointment at this point. Shoot Aiken got more than that when he was a top 2 receiver.  

[atomicfront]

2 hours ago, Grapple Raven said:

I don't know how much he could add to the offense, but Keenan Reynolds might not be available according to this article. The policy Keenan was under was rescinded yesterday and Keenan couldn't be reached for comment as to how this order will affect his military status.

Ravens Insider‏ @RavensInsider 5h5 hours ago

More

Department of Defense rescinds 2016 policy that helped military academy athletes defer duty to go pro http://dlvr.it/P2Tb9v 

I would think that the Military is a better career option for Keenan at this point.  I don't really understand why this policy existed in the first place.  

[jazz1988]

2 hours ago, Grapple Raven said:

I don't know how much he could add to the offense, but Keenan Reynolds might not be available according to this article. The policy Keenan was under was rescinded yesterday and Keenan couldn't be reached for comment as to how this order will affect his military status.

Ravens Insider‏ @RavensInsider 5h5 hours ago

More

Department of Defense rescinds 2016 policy that helped military academy athletes defer duty to go pro http://dlvr.it/P2Tb9v 

I seen that it won't affect Keenan Reynolds but it will for other that recently enter the draft but i'm not entirely sure if it's true.

[rossihunter2]

1 hour ago, jazz1988 said:

I seen that it won't affect Keenan Reynolds but it will for other that recently enter the draft but i'm not entirely sure if it's true.

jalen robinette?

[polynesian15]

1 hour ago, atomicfront said:

You are saying 190 yards and 20 receptions is your over and under?  I am sure there are ton of undrafted guys out there that could do much more than that if they were top 2 on the Ravens.   Torrey put up 1100 yards in his third season. I would say anything under 800 yards would be a big disappointment at this point. Shoot Aiken got more than that when he was a top 2 receiver.  

I guess I got carried away, over exaggerating to prove a point  Then let's say the threshold is 800 yards - imo Perriman exceeds that with a clean bill of health. IMO you can't say he underperforms once again, with 650 yards, if he's out half the season with an injury. As I recall he had no injury concerns coming out of college - it's part of the game and happens to everybody. 

I will agree that we need to add some experienced depth (a Boldin type guy), and I'm convinced Ozzie is at work trying to make that happen as we speak.

Torrey put up 1100 as he was the number 1 (only viable) target. Let's see what Perriman does in his first season as a starter.

[OUravensfan]

How good are Mixon and Ross going to be, it's so infuriating that that team always gets offensive playmakers when they have down years. I wish some other team sacrificed their fake morals before the Bengals did so the guy wasn't in our division.

[rossihunter2]

2 minutes ago, OUravensfan said:

How good are Mixon and Ross going to be, it's so infuriating that that team always gets offensive playmakers when they have down years. I wish some other team sacrificed their fake morals before the Bengals did so the guy wasn't in our division.

it'll bite them some day the same way that vontaze burfict and adam jones single handedly lost them that playoff game vs pittsburgh

[OUravensfan]

3 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

it'll bite them some day the same way that vontaze burfict and adam jones single handedly lost them that playoff game vs pittsburgh

I complain a lot about it since I watch both teams every week, but it makes me sick to see the plethora of weapons they surround Dalton with compared to what Joe is given. Until recently he even had dominant lines too, that may be their weak point but you never know what can happen year to year, it's looking like Dalton will be spoiled again while Joe will get blamed for WR and run game  incompetence. 

Could you imagine the media outcry if we drafted Mixon, my god.

Edited Tuesday at 03:16 PM by OUravensfan

[ellicottraven]

10 minutes ago, OUravensfan said:

I complain a lot about it since I watch both teams every week, but it makes me sick to see the plethora of weapons they surround Dalton with compared to what Joe is given. Until recently he even had dominant lines too, that may be their weak point but you never know what can happen year to year, it's looking like Dalton will be spoiled again while Joe will get blamed for WR and run game  incompetence. 

Could you imagine the media outcry if we drafted Mixon, my god.

It would be unreal. It seems like they expect the Bengals to do such things given they don't want to pay full price for anybody. The moral expectations for the Bengals is so low, they can get away with signing anybody with issues no matter how terrible.

[rossihunter2]

8 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

It would be unreal. It seems like they expect the Bengals to do such things given they don't want to pay full price for anybody. The moral expectations for the Bengals is so low, they can get away with signing anybody with issues no matter how terrible.

and look where it's got them lol - no playoff wins

[jazz1988]

1 hour ago, rossihunter2 said:

jalen robinette?

Yes Jalen Robinette.

[OUravensfan]

7 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

and look where it's got them lol - no playoff wins

I'm hoping AJ Green gets fed up and decides he wants to play for Harbaugh lol

[flynismo]

Call me crazy, but I actually am starting to miss Cam Cameron. This offense has been even worse since he left, save for 2014 when Kubiak was here. At least when Cameron abandoned the run game, he still had the good sense to utilize his QBs obvious gifts. Abandoning the run AND trying to turn Flacco in Captain Checkdown...well...it's no wonder why this offense struggles so much.

[JoeyFlex5]

13 hours ago, atomicfront said:

Well so far Perriman hasn't produced like Torrey did.  I believe in giving him a chance to be one of our top 2 but we still need another proven wide receiver on the team.  To go into the receiving core we have now is likely to lead to a season where we don't compete.  

Perriman wasn't our #2. Torrey became the #2 almost right away out of necessity. And he didn't have to grow into our super simplified coryell bombs away offense lol. 

Perrimans got a bigger learning curve and wasn't in football shape when he started, and also had Wallace Steve and pitta as he top targets ahead of him

[JoeyFlex5]

3 minutes ago, flynismo said:

Call me crazy, but I actually am starting to miss Cam Cameron. This offense has been even worse since he left, save for 2014 when Kubiak was here. At least when Cameron abandoned the run game, he still had the good sense to utilize his QBs obvious gifts. Abandoning the run AND trying to turn Flacco in Captain Checkdown...well...it's no wonder why this offense struggles so much.

It's crazy, we had west coast receivers with cam and ran a coryell, we have coryell receivers now and run a west coast. 

[jazz1988]

7 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

It's crazy, we had west coast receivers with cam and ran a coryell, we have coryell receivers now and run a west coast. 

 Marty M doesn't run a  traditional west coast offense though. His west coast offense is more like vertical west offense than anything but it still isn't anything like Cam Cameron. 

[JoeyFlex5]

Just now, jazz1988 said:

 Marty M doesn't run a  traditional west coast offense though. His west coast offense is more like vertical west offense than anything but it still isn't anything like Cam Cameron. 

Yeah I know he likes to stretch the field horizontal and vertical and last year was running more of treatmans system than anything. Hoping he caters to our strengths more this year

[Tru11]

12 minutes ago, flynismo said:

Call me crazy, but I actually am starting to miss Cam Cameron. This offense has been even worse since he left, save for 2014 when Kubiak was here. At least when Cameron abandoned the run game, he still had the good sense to utilize his QBs obvious gifts. Abandoning the run AND trying to turn Flacco in Captain Checkdown...well...it's no wonder why this offense struggles so much.

nothing crazy about this at all.

Flacco fits the coryell offense more then the west coast and the players we have at the moment fit that offense more.

norv turner is teamless i think