kjbmore

Another year of anaemic offense???

128 posts in this topic

Is anybody else worried about our offense heading into next season??

we haven't added any significant pieces so far, we have lost some guys who were positive contributors last season.

im not seeing any reason to be overly optimistic 

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Please tell me why you're expecting any great departure from the team that put up 10 pts against the redskins at home

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21 minutes ago, kjbmore said:

Is anybody else worried about our offense heading into next season??

we haven't added any significant pieces so far, we have lost some guys who were positive contributors last season.

im not seeing any reason to be overly optimistic 

Not too worried to be honest.

We're not done by any means. FA just started, and we typically get contributors cheap, late into FA... even camp cuts. 

I like our RB depth once Dixon returns and I trust West to hold down the fort for a few games.

I expect Perriman to take a big step, and with increased volume should see a big jump in his production. Wallace and Joe should have even better relationship/connect so i dont expect too big a drop off there, though i dont see a spike in production either. I fully expect Camp, if he can stay healthy, to be a good to very good receiving option for us. He's always shown to be a playmaker any time he gets the ball in his hands -- just needs to stay healthy.

And we dont know if Moore or Reynolds could take the next step. Moore flashed ability to get open, just needs to make the plays.

I expect Woodhead to play a decent role in the passing game. Not only replacing Juice's production but surpassing it. 

Then there's the TE's. It'll depend on how they build the offense and play calling, but we could very well supplement suspect WR depth with heavy TE use. Its an asset and we need to use it. Pitta can be that reliable possession receiver. Wallers got seam stretching vertical ability. Maxx has a great all around game if he can put it together on the field. Gillmores flashed some nice physicality and YAC ability. Boyle might be the best all around player of the bunch so far. And who knows if we keep Watson.

But there are weapons here.... we just need the OC to build an offense and game plan to those strengths.

Marty's job is on the line, and with a full offseason to really build his own vision i think we see dramatic improvement just on that front. Especially as a play caller where he'll have his own menu and verbiage.

I also expect more of a commitment to the run. That alone should see dramatic improvement. Joe shouldnt be throwing the ball 40-50 times a game.

 

The only real question is OL. But i dont think its this huge overhaul or anything. If we get more physical at Center i think we see big improvement in the run game... and we've got young developmental options for RT or worst case Hurst. Hes abysmal at LT, but might be serviceable on the right side.

We've got a new OL coach as well who could shake things up and get more out of a young guy. Theres also the possibility of getting a cheap vet in FA like King Dunlap.

 

 

And we havent even drafted yet. Time to pump the breaks until we actually know what the roster will look like.

It doesnt always take adding superstars to show drastic improvement. Some consistency, a slight change in philosophy, and better relationships can give us a net positive. Not saying it will, but no reason to be doom and gloom til we know what we have for sure, and know what the product on the field looks like.

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7 minutes ago, kjbmore said:

Please tell me why you're expecting any great departure from the team that put up 10 pts against the redskins at home

Please tell me why you think the current roster is exactly what we'll put on the field week 1.

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3 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Please tell me why you think the current roster is exactly what we'll put on the field week 1.

Yep! People seem to forget that the season begins in September, and that there is still several free agency moves and draft moves to go through.


But to be honest let's be real, the Ravens defense was #1 last year most the season until Jimmy Smith was injured. If I was the Ravens wanting a title I think the team is closer to an elite defense than an elite offense. The Ravens front office always neglects the offense, but in this case I agree with where they are going so far. 

If the team is going to compete with the best in the AFC, most AFC teams have a high-powered offense. With the free agents available, the front office did the right move to try to slow those AFC offenses down. Sure the Ravens offense sucks and won't be any better without Steve Smith, and they will need to find a replacement. But them not resigning Juice and signing Juice shows the team is likely going away from an offense that uses a fullback. I don't think the team lost much from Wagner as he was a good RT but from the scheme changes from what have been told so far he did not fit the mold the team was looking for.

In the end it will be 2-3 years at least for this offense to get on track. I think the best strategy for the Ravens front office to go was to improve their already good defense. It will hurt losing those low scoring games and easily blaming the offense. But I think the offense can find some contributors on offense in this draft. 

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42 minutes ago, kjbmore said:

Is anybody else worried about our offense heading into next season??

we haven't added any significant pieces so far, we have lost some guys who were positive contributors last season.

im not seeing any reason to be overly optimistic 

Well... we can't expect to fill every hole this offseason. This year we decided to upgrade the defense which it would helpful to help the offense this season. Next year we'll upgrade the offense and get some pieces for that. 2018 is gonna be a really great year for us. I'm actually glad we upgraded the defense first because the secondary hasn't been spectacular in the last couple of seasons. 

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7 minutes ago, hen826957 said:

Well... we can't expect to fill every hole this offseason. This year we decided to upgrade the defense which it would helpful to help the offense this season. Next year we'll upgrade the offense and get some pieces for that. 2018 is gonna be a really great year for us. I'm actually glad we upgraded the defense first because the secondary hasn't been spectacular in the last couple of seasons. 

The secondary was the downfall in 2014 when the Ravens were ahead 58 minutes against the team that eventually went on to win the Super Bowl. So what does the team do?

They added Eric Weddle and now added Tony Jefferson, along with finding a gem in Tavon Young in the 4th round.

I agree 100% with you the team's achilles heel used to be the secondary, now it is the pass rush/offense. It won't be fixed in an entire offseason. But on paper I actually think this team is better than it was last season with moves still to be made. 

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Our defense held up reasonably well, our offense just couldn't sustain drives or get into the red zone

we havent done anything to change that other than the addition of woodhead 

im just being a realist, our offense struggled last season and so far it's a year older with a few less pieces

im concerned

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This is exactly what I've been worrying about.Alot of ravens fans keep saying cornback is our biggest need,I see alot of fans say pass rusher is our biggest need and the front office let two of our best o lineman walk in consecutive years.I'm starting to wonder if any one in Baltimore remembers that theres two sides to the ball.Our offense was the weakest part of our team last year and our offensive line was the weakest group of the team.Yet we still let one of the best players on the group walk in favor of the defense.The line,rb crew,te crew and wr crew all look anemic at the moment.Unless the defense looks like seattles or denvers from a few years ago and can carry the team or we have a few unexpected breakout stars on offense,I'm not expecting a playoff berth.

Edited by HomeoftheBRAVENS
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4 minutes ago, kjbmore said:

Our defense held up reasonably well, our offense just couldn't sustain drives or get into the red zone

we havent done anything to change that other than the addition of woodhead 

im just being a realist, our offense struggled last season and so far it's a year older with a few less pieces

im concerned

 

Your just looking at our team through non purple lenses.

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18 minutes ago, HomeoftheBRAVENS said:

This is exactly what I've been worrying about.Alot of ravens fans keep saying cornback is our biggest need,I see alot of fans say pass rusher is our biggest need and the front office let two of our best o lineman walk in consecutive years.I'm starting to wonder if any one in Baltimore remembers that theres two sides to the ball.Our offense was the weakest part of our team last year and our offensive line was the weakest group of the team.Yet we still let one of the best players on the group walk in favor of the defense.The line,rb crew,te crew and wr crew all look anemic at the moment.Unless the defense looks like seattles or denvers from a few years ago and can carry the team or we have a few unexpected breakout stars on offense,I'm not expecting a playoff berth.

The OL was actually decent when healthy. When Stanley and/or Yanda was out it sucked, but when the starting 5 were out there together it was actually pretty good. We just didnt run the ball.

If we run the ball, and run it well, the offense will turn around more so than by adding playmakers. And losing Wagner doesnt hurt the run game imo. He was just an ok run blocker. Losing him hurts pass protection sure... but i think if we can add Mangold, and commit to the run, we may not see an offense like NE, GB, or ATL, but we'll see a ball control offense to match a smothering defense.

With big play potential in the passing game, its a recipe for success.

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Well bleacher report has just reported that Zuttah has been relased- so expect another addition soon. Mangold perhaps?

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2 minutes ago, January J said:

Well bleacher report has just reported that Zuttah has been relased- so expect another addition soon. Mangold perhaps?

I hope so... need to pick guys up before someone else gets to them.

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As it stands right now, Perriman is the #1 WR on the roster, even with Mike Wallace on the team. I stand firm on the idea that Perriman is going to be a beast and personally I think he could be a star next season. He has the raw tools, I just think that he needs to refine his routes and improve his chemistry with Joe, I find those two concerns to be my biggest. I think he's going to come into next season improved on those routes. People forget that Perriman played in a Pro style offense at UCF that asked him to run a variety of routes. It's not like he's unfamiliar with the concept similar to what we've seen from player who come from Baylor or Oregon. 

Still, I don't anyone being concerned with that, at the same time we still have to rely on the guy whether we like it or not. 

In terms of a WR, we did trade for AnQuan Boldin back in 2010 so we could trade for someone, though I doubt it will happen. Speaking of Boldin I would love to have him back here, sure he's on the back end of his career but I feel that he still has something left in the tank and could push the guys behind him to play better. I also think his physical brand of play style could push Perriman to play more physical as well. 

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56 minutes ago, purpletide said:

I hope so... need to pick guys up before someone else gets to them.

I see this as a popular suggestion, but I don't really get it. Zuttah was at least average last year and Mangold is aging and coming off an injured year. To me this is a high risk low reward situation, given that Zuttah has been serviceable.

Edited by mg90
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In this current state, we are looking to take a massive step backwards on O. Which is down right frightening because we already were a below average offense. 

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37 minutes ago, mg90 said:

I see this as a popular suggestion, but I don't really get it. Zuttah was at least average last year and Mangold is aging and coming off an injured year. To me this is a high risk low reward situation, given that Zuttah has been serviceable.

if you look at what Zuttah did well, and where he struggled its an exact mirror of where the offense struggled.

The running game will not be what we want with a guy like Zuttah at Center. Big tackles just push him back, and the RBs consistently have to break tackles in the back field for positive gains. He's only effective run blocking on pulls or in space -- both of which we're going away from (stretch zone). 

And, bigger penetrating DT's knock him into Joe's lap. Joe is pretty decent at avoiding pressure off the edges at this point in his career. Where i think he struggles most is when he cant step forward ( or is forced to step backward) when he wants to throw. Leads to throwing off the back foot and fading away which leads to picks. Its also the quickest way to put pressure on the QB.

 

I'd take a lesser athlete, and less technically proficient player for someone that can bully people in the run game. We prob arent going to be doing much of having our center out in space so Zuttahs strengths become null and void -- and his weakness become highlighted.

We just need someone who can bully big guys in the run game, and anchor down/hold their own in the passing game. Playing next to Yanda makes any Center look better, so i think Zuttahs play got a little artificial bump based on that.

Neither Zuttah or Mangold would be a long term option. Mangold at least fits the type of blocker we want in the middle, and has the experience and leadership to make the whole line better even if hes not individually head and shoulders above Zuttah.

Even if we dont go after Mangold, getting rid of Zuttah could be addition by subtraction, and we already have Jensen and Skura who i like as potential internal options.

 

The FO has a plan. They arent just cutting guys willy nilly out here. Hes gone for a reason. We'll find that reason out soon. But i can guarantee everyone, what we see as 2 holes on the OL wont appear that way by the time TC rolls around.

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4 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

As it stands right now, Perriman is the #1 WR on the roster, even with Mike Wallace on the team. I stand firm on the idea that Perriman is going to be a beast and personally I think he could be a star next season. He has the raw tools, I just think that he needs to refine his routes and improve his chemistry with Joe, I find those two concerns to be my biggest. I think he's going to come into next season improved on those routes. People forget that Perriman played in a Pro style offense at UCF that asked him to run a variety of routes. It's not like he's unfamiliar with the concept similar to what we've seen from player who come from Baylor or Oregon. 

Still, I don't anyone being concerned with that, at the same time we still have to rely on the guy whether we like it or not. 

In terms of a WR, we did trade for AnQuan Boldin back in 2010 so we could trade for someone, though I doubt it will happen. Speaking of Boldin I would love to have him back here, sure he's on the back end of his career but I feel that he still has something left in the tank and could push the guys behind him to play better. I also think his physical brand of play style could push Perriman to play more physical as well. 

I agree on both fronts.

3 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

if you look at what Zuttah did well, and where he struggled its an exact mirror of where the offense struggled.

The running game will not be what we want with a guy like Zuttah at Center. Big tackles just push him back, and the RBs consistently have to break tackles in the back field for positive gains. He's only effective run blocking on pulls or in space -- both of which we're going away from (stretch zone). 

And, bigger penetrating DT's knock him into Joe's lap. Joe is pretty decent at avoiding pressure off the edges at this point in his career. Where i think he struggles most is when he cant step forward ( or is forced to step backward) when he wants to throw. Leads to throwing off the back foot and fading away which leads to picks. Its also the quickest way to put pressure on the QB.

 

I'd take a lesser athlete, and less technically proficient player for someone that can bully people in the run game. We prob arent going to be doing much of having our center out in space so Zuttahs strengths become null and void -- and his weakness become highlighted.

We just need someone who can bully big guys in the run game, and anchor down/hold their own in the passing game. Playing next to Yanda makes any Center look better, so i think Zuttahs play got a little artificial bump based on that.

Neither Zuttah or Mangold would be a long term option. Mangold at least fits the type of blocker we want in the middle, and has the experience and leadership to make the whole line better even if hes not individually head and shoulders above Zuttah.

Even if we dont go after Mangold, getting rid of Zuttah could be addition by subtraction, and we already have Jensen and Skura who i like as potential internal options.

 

The FO has a plan. They arent just cutting guys willy nilly out here. Hes gone for a reason. We'll find that reason out soon. But i can guarantee everyone, what we see as 2 holes on the OL wont appear that way by the time TC rolls around.

Yep and how many times did we see Zuttah get pushed back immediately getting his feet tangled and tripping Joe up ? Extremely annoying.

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The offense has been abysmal and it has only gotten worse thus far in FA with the loss of Wagner, Juice, and SSS. If anyone thinks we're fixing whats wrong with this offense in the draft alone you're delusional. 

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4 hours ago, mg90 said:

I see this as a popular suggestion, but I don't really get it. Zuttah was at least average last year and Mangold is aging and coming off an injured year. To me this is a high risk low reward situation, given that Zuttah has been serviceable.

I was more referring to us needing to pick up another O-lineman, not specifically Mangold. I do think that getting Mangold is a good idea however, assuming we don't throw a ton of money his way. Not a long term solution, but its a start.

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I love the instant over-reactions by some people on this board.  Like when we hired Trestman and lost week 1, in Denver...had people calling for his job.  its literally been one week (actually 6 days) and we have made 3 good signings in my opinion and people are losing their mind.  I want to address the OL as well....but you cant fix every position in a single off-season

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3 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

if you look at what Zuttah did well, and where he struggled its an exact mirror of where the offense struggled.

The running game will not be what we want with a guy like Zuttah at Center. Big tackles just push him back, and the RBs consistently have to break tackles in the back field for positive gains. He's only effective run blocking on pulls or in space -- both of which we're going away from (stretch zone). 

And, bigger penetrating DT's knock him into Joe's lap. Joe is pretty decent at avoiding pressure off the edges at this point in his career. Where i think he struggles most is when he cant step forward ( or is forced to step backward) when he wants to throw. Leads to throwing off the back foot and fading away which leads to picks. Its also the quickest way to put pressure on the QB.

 

I'd take a lesser athlete, and less technically proficient player for someone that can bully people in the run game. We prob arent going to be doing much of having our center out in space so Zuttahs strengths become null and void -- and his weakness become highlighted.

We just need someone who can bully big guys in the run game, and anchor down/hold their own in the passing game. Playing next to Yanda makes any Center look better, so i think Zuttahs play got a little artificial bump based on that.

Neither Zuttah or Mangold would be a long term option. Mangold at least fits the type of blocker we want in the middle, and has the experience and leadership to make the whole line better even if hes not individually head and shoulders above Zuttah.

Even if we dont go after Mangold, getting rid of Zuttah could be addition by subtraction, and we already have Jensen and Skura who i like as potential internal options.

 

The FO has a plan. They arent just cutting guys willy nilly out here. Hes gone for a reason. We'll find that reason out soon. But i can guarantee everyone, what we see as 2 holes on the OL wont appear that way by the time TC rolls around.

Thank you for that explanation, very informative. So cutting Zuttah makes sense to me.  As far as Mangold, my guess is that we look elsewhere if our options in house have potential to step up.  Our cap space is probably pretty thin by now.

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That doesn't bother me near as much as the 2019 draft. I don't think we are even remotely ready for that.

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7 hours ago, kjbmore said:

Our defense held up reasonably well, our offense just couldn't sustain drives or get into the red zone

we havent done anything to change that other than the addition of woodhead 

im just being a realist, our offense struggled last season and so far it's a year older with a few less pieces

im concerned

I think it's valid to be concerned when you lose your best WR and two starting linemen but I'm still optimistic that we'll have a better season.

1- Flacco had a horrible season! Blame the scheme, play calling, Oline, his knee, or any combination that caused efficiency to drop. But that really was as bad as it gets. I'm not expecting him to be a top 5 QB but i have a hard time believing he can't play better than 15 or 20 QBs at worst. That's all we need and everything else is a bonus.

2- Oline was a mess last year. Injuries played a part but that wasn't it. No one was on the same page! Worst case scenario, we add a 3rd rounder and 5th rounder and force them to start between Yanda Lewis and Stanley. Add a FA on the cheap later on to push the rooks for playing time. That's worst case scenario and I still belive that line shouldn't be anything less than top 10. 

3- We did lose SSS but I'm confident that perriman will build on his strong finish to last season and Wallace really had a good year just got less targets as there weren't enough balls to go around when SSS came back. Gilmore and Williams also mean Pitta can play more as a slot rather than attempt to block someon. I would like to add another diverse pass catcher (any redzone threat) but I'm not as concerned as many are.

I believe on offense we just need to be a bit more efficient. on D, this team already is a better than the one that finished the year. Keep in mind it was too 5 before Jimmy went down. Sucks loosing Orr but I suppose it's not that hard to play besides Mosley, behind Bwill, with Weddle and Jefferson protecting ur back.

If my math is correct, we still have 12-15 mil to spend in FA and I hope Ozzie won't be shy to spend it. Then a Draft to look forward to. 

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4 minutes ago, Halshayeji said:

I think it's valid to be concerned when you lose your best WR and two starting linemen but I'm still optimistic that we'll have a better season.

1- Flacco had a horrible season! Blame the scheme, play calling, Oline, his knee, or any combination that caused efficiency to drop. But that really was as bad as it gets. I'm not expecting him to be a top 5 QB but i have a hard time believing he can't play better than 15 or 20 QBs at worst. That's all we need and everything else is a bonus.

2- Oline was a mess last year. Injuries played a part but that wasn't it. No one was on the same page! Worst case scenario, we add a 3rd rounder and 5th rounder and force them to start between Yanda Lewis and Stanley. Add a FA on the cheap later on to push the rooks for playing time. That's worst case scenario and I still belive that line shouldn't be anything less than top 10. 

3- We did lose SSS but I'm confident that perriman will build on his strong finish to last season and Wallace really had a good year just got less targets as there weren't enough balls to go around when SSS came back. Gilmore and Williams also mean Pitta can play more as a slot rather than attempt to block someon. I would like to add another diverse pass catcher (any redzone threat) but I'm not as concerned as many are.

I believe on offense we just need to be a bit more efficient. on D, this team already is a better than the one that finished the year. Keep in mind it was too 5 before Jimmy went down. Sucks loosing Orr but I suppose it's not that hard to play besides Mosley, behind Bwill, with Weddle and Jefferson protecting ur back.

If my math is correct, we still have 12-15 mil to spend in FA and I hope Ozzie won't be shy to spend it. Then a Draft to look forward to. 

We also need to get an offensive identity this year. I'd like to see that become one that involves a powerful run game. I'm still really high on Howard as a big playmaker in the blocking and receiving game.

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1 hour ago, usmccharles said:

I love the instant over-reactions by some people on this board.  Like when we hired Trestman and lost week 1, in Denver...had people calling for his job.  its literally been one week (actually 6 days) and we have made 3 good signings in my opinion and people are losing their mind.  I want to address the OL as well....but you cant fix every position in a single off-season

I absolutely agree there's still a lot of offseason left and so far Ozzie has been killing it! I disagree tho on the Trestman part. We all knew exactly what he was or wasn't coming from Chicago! We knew how stubborn he was and still kept him for 20 games when he showed no intentions of playing to the teams strength. He single handedly ruined a formula that was working and contaminated so many in the building as he left. Thus, the door knocked him all the way to Canada on his way out.

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1 hour ago, sflegend89 said:

The offense has been abysmal and it has only gotten worse thus far in FA with the loss of Wagner, Juice, and SSS. If anyone thinks we're fixing whats wrong with this offense in the draft alone you're delusional. 

I don't think you have read anybodys' posts on here if you really just said that.....

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5 minutes ago, purpletide said:

We also need to get an offensive identity this year. I'd like to see that become one that involves a powerful run game. I'm still really high on Howard as a big playmaker in the blocking and receiving game.

Amen to a running game! Thank you!

Howard is a freak of nature and will be a start in this league. I'm probably Higher on him than you are. I see him as a top 10 talent. Yes a TE in the top 10. I just don't see the FO letting go of pitta after redoing his contract. Neither can I see them giving up on Williams or Gilmore just yet. If he somehow falls to us then Ozzies phone wil be ringing with trade offers

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23 minutes ago, Halshayeji said:

Amen to a running game! Thank you!

Howard is a freak of nature and will be a start in this league. I'm probably Higher on him than you are. I see him as a top 10 talent. Yes a TE in the top 10. I just don't see the FO letting go of pitta after redoing his contract. Neither can I see them giving up on Williams or Gilmore just yet. If he somehow falls to us then Ozzies phone wil be ringing with trade offers

I agree Pitta has done a lot to stay with us and do the best he can to make sure we have room in the cap and I wouldn't want to let go of that (also Flacco's favorite/most trusted target). I've heard people talking about what Williams could bring to us in the trade market, which I would only want to exercise that idea if we took Howard as a BPA pick. We could also cut Watson and move Boyle to FB as I've heard people talk about, but I'm not sure about how I feel about this.

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