Extended Brandon Williams

[ludy51]

17 minutes ago, PurpleHorseman said:

When has it ever done that? Letting a very good RT walk and arguably the best guard in the NFL is building their offense and helping Joe Flacco? How? Paying a run stuffing One dimensional NT  that leaves the game on throwing downs in a throwing league, is building the offense?

i keep hearing this bs that Williams is an elite NT. How many teams use or even want a one dimensional NT? Even 3-4 teams like to front multi talented lineman across the board that are all stout and contribute to the rush. As opposed to a one dimensional NT and 2 ends. But prefer 3 stout penetrators if it can. So Williams is a top3 NT out of about 8 across NFL? Maybe the ravens will eventually join the rest of the league in the 21st century

Letting Osemele go!?

Did you not SEE the contract he got!?

[PurpleHorseman]

11 minutes ago, ludy51 said:

Letting Osemele go!?

Did you not SEE the contract he got!?

Similar to Williams. A venerable NT.

[PurpleHorseman]

16 minutes ago, jazz1988 said:

Technically Marshal Yanda is the best guard in the league and The Ravens made sure to keep him around. It's not hard to get a  good right tackle at all . I'm sorry but I'm not ready to push the panic button. 

Yanda isn't going to be the best guard when he hits 34. Be realistic. Our players age to you know. Not only our rivals. Panic button wouldn't do any good. This is the off-season going to do in the regime.

[Purple_City39]

11 minutes ago, jazz1988 said:

Technically Marshal Yanda is the best guard in the league and The Ravens made sure to keep him around. It's not hard to get a  good right tackle at all . I'm sorry but I'm not ready to push the panic button. 

I'm curious about your opinion on something.  When was the last time the Ravens had a truly good RT in your opinion? 

Osemele was a great guard, and great run blocker.  But those 8 sacks allowed and 7 penalties his rookie year at Rt were pretty bad, but he was a rookie I guess..  Oher was as durable as they come, but his performance was always right up there with Osemele's rookie year or worse.  Both very good run blockers but just bad pass blockers.

Meanwhile, Wagner has never allowed even 3 sacks in one season (which is amazing if you remember he allowed 2 in week 1 of 2014) and he's only exceed 3 total penalties 1 (he had 4 in 2015).  He's not a great run blocker, but again, this is a passing league and you need to protect your QB with good pass blockers first.

I can't remember the last time we've had a RT perform at Wagner's level, let alone for as many years as Rick's done it in a row.  I can, however, remember the last time we've had a run stopping DT/NT do a good job of eating up blocks though

[Corvus]

Williams AND Jefferson both overpaid. But it is to be expected with them both in their prime and just the general nature of the league now. I'm fine with both contracts, both will be doing things to help the team that don't always show up in the stat sheet. Some of you act like you're the ones writing these checks...

[mmcclend]

12 hours ago, Edgar said:

" Correa won the ILB spot....."

Patently untrue. He was taking first team reps for a few weeks...Orr won the spot.

In fact, Correa was behind McClellan  ultimately.

And peanut onwasaur. Correa wasnt even active most games.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

3 minutes ago, Purple_City39 said:

I'm curious about your opinion on something.  When was the last time the Ravens had a truly good RT in your opinion? 

Osemele was a great guard, and great run blocker.  But those 8 sacks allowed and 7 penalties his rookie year at Rt were pretty bad, but he was a rookie I guess..  Oher was as durable as they come, but his performance was always right up there with Osemele's rookie year or worse.  Both very good run blockers but just bad pass blockers.

Meanwhile, Wagner has never allowed even 3 sacks in one season (which is amazing if you remember he allowed 2 in week 1 of 2014) and he's only exceed 3 total penalties 1 (he had 4 in 2015).  He's not a great run blocker, but again, this is a passing league and you need to protect your QB with good pass blockers first.

I can't remember the last time we've had a RT perform at Wagner's level, let alone for as many years as Rick's done it in a row.  I can, however, remember the last time we've had a run stopping DT/NT do a good job of eating up blocks though

I agree its a passing league, but as we saw first hand last season - if you cant run the ball effectively we cant pass it well either.

Wagner was a good RT, but i just dont think hes that much better than what we can find in a much cheaper alternative. We'll see. I mean all of this depends on what the alternatives are. 

Signing Williams is a lot, but if we can still plug our other holes and resign our key pieces next year -- its a great deal. If we now cant do other things then it might now be.

Letting Wagner walk for big money is ok if we use those resources to solve multiple issues. If we let him walk, downgrade at RT and dont upgrade at C or LG then its a problem.

 

I dont think we can look at these things in a vacuum. Its all connected. The FO has to look at the big picture of putting this roster together to compete. If not resigning a certain go over a certain value means the overall picture improves then they deserve credit for their discipline.

And that requires us to put trust in them, sit back, and wait until its all settled. Many times it takes longer than just 1 season or offseason to really see. Just for a quick example, i think most thought resigning Pitta was a good move at the time... but serious injures for 2 season makes it pretty band in hindsight.

We prob wont know for sure if some of these moves were really the right move for another 3-5 years.

[rmw10]

Not to completely derail the thread, but since there are some Wagner vs. Williams debates... where is the assumption that it's super easy to find a RT coming from?  The fact that Wagner got as much money as he did should show that it's not that easy or there wouldn't have been tons of competition for his services.  There are needs at RT all over the league.

[rossihunter2]

6 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Not to completely derail the thread, but since there are some Wagner vs. Williams debates... where is the assumption that it's super easy to find a RT coming from?  The fact that Wagner got as much money as he did should show that it's not that easy or there wouldn't have been tons of competition for his services.  There are needs at RT all over the league.

especially in this upcoming draft - defensive tackle hasnt got a lot of top tier talent but there is good run-stuffing talent available in the middle rounds whereas this might be one of the worst offensive line drafts, especially at tackle, that i've seen for a while - at least there are some interior linemen but i dont really see too many guys who project as tackles

im glad brandon's back but i do agree that given the money involved this move was... unexpected

[The Raven]

14 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Not to completely derail the thread, but since there are some Wagner vs. Williams debates... where is the assumption that it's super easy to find a RT coming from?  The fact that Wagner got as much money as he did should show that it's not that easy or there wouldn't have been tons of competition for his services.  There are needs at RT all over the league.

Because people buy into BS narratives. They naturally think that non-skill positions are easy to find. No idea why.

If it's so easy to find a RT why did we have such a crappy rotation of Jah Reid, Mike Oher, and who else before Wagner brought us stability? I'd like some people to answer that.

Edited March 10 by The Raven

[usmccharles]

13 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Not to completely derail the thread, but since there are some Wagner vs. Williams debates... where is the assumption that it's super easy to find a RT coming from?  The fact that Wagner got as much money as he did should show that it's not that easy or there wouldn't have been tons of competition for his services.  There are needs at RT all over the league.

This was my thoughts.  Im glad we retained one of them, I was hoping for Wagner because of how well we develop our DL but im glad we kept one of the two.  Looks like our defense is going to be built nicely for the future.  This definitely makes the draft a little more interesting, if that's possible. 

[jazz1988]

10 minutes ago, Purple_City39 said:

I'm curious about your opinion on something.  When was the last time the Ravens had a truly good RT in your opinion? 

Osemele was a great guard, and great run blocker.  But those 8 sacks allowed and 7 penalties his rookie year at Rt were pretty bad, but he was a rookie I guess..  Oher was as durable as they come, but his performance was always right up there with Osemele's rookie year or worse.  Both very good run blockers but just bad pass blockers.

Meanwhile, Wagner has never allowed even 3 sacks in one season (which is amazing if you remember he allowed 2 in week 1 of 2014) and he's only exceed 3 total penalties 1 (he had 4 in 2015).  He's not a great run blocker, but again, this is a passing league and you need to protect your QB with good pass blockers first.

I can't remember the last time we've had a RT perform at Wagner's level, let alone for as many years as Rick's done it in a row.  I can, however, remember the last time we've had a run stopping DT/NT do a good job of eating up blocks though

If Wagner not allowing no more than 3 sacks matters than  all this talk about how Jeremy Zuttah is  a bad  fit for The Ravens need to stop because he allowed just as many sacks  if i'm not mistaken.  Just because you can't remember the last time we've had RT play as well as Wagner doesn't mean The Ravens won't be able to replace him. Brandon Williams had a down year but profootball focus had him ranked as the highest NT  in the league in 2015. If you want to read more than go here  link .

 

26 minutes ago, PurpleHorseman said:

Yanda isn't going to be the best guard when he hits 34. Be realistic. Our players age to you know. Not only our rivals. Panic button wouldn't do any good. This is the off-season going to do in the regime.

Well he's 32 right now so The Ravens have a year and  a  half before then .

 

[Purple_City39]

15 minutes ago, jazz1988 said:

If Wagner not allowing no more than 3 sacks matters than  all this talk about how Jeremy Zuttah is  a bad  fit for The Ravens need to stop because he allowed just as many sacks  if i'm not mistaken.  Just because you can't remember the last time we've had RT play as well as Wagner doesn't mean The Ravens won't be able to replace him. Brandon Williams had a down year but profootball focus had him ranked as the highest NT  in the league in 2015. If you want to read more than go here  link .

Whereas Zuttah allowed 3.5 sacks last season, let's also remember that as a center, he almost always has help from a guard.  Wagner as a RT will occasionally get help from a TE, but it's far more rare.

In addition, this is pure numbers that can be researched, but Wagner was not pushed into the backfield even comparably as much as Zuttah.  Jeremy gave our QB little to no room to ever step up into the pocket.  Meanwhile Wagner consistently moved his man out of the play.

And okay, you've called out my memory, so do you remember the last time a RT played as well as Wagner?  Everyone's making RT out to be some easy to replace position and I don't get it.  Especially this year.

[ALPHA]

We missed the boat on retooling the interior oline two years in a row now, hopefully we find some fire guards in this draft and Brandon Williams stays healthy into his 30s.

[The Raven]

28 minutes ago, jazz1988 said:

If Wagner not allowing no more than 3 sacks matters than  all this talk about how Jeremy Zuttah is  a bad  fit for The Ravens need to stop because he allowed just as many sacks  if i'm not mistaken.  Just because you can't remember the last time we've had RT play as well as Wagner doesn't mean The Ravens won't be able to replace him. Brandon Williams had a down year but profootball focus had him ranked as the highest NT  in the league in 2015. If you want to read more than go here  link .

 

Well he's 32 right now so The Ravens have a year and  a  half before then .

 

 

8 minutes ago, Purple_City39 said:

Whereas Zuttah allowed 3.5 sacks last season, let's also remember that as a center, he almost always has help from a guard.  Wagner as a RT will occasionally get help from a TE, but it's far more rare.

In addition, this is pure numbers that can be researched, but Wagner was not pushed into the backfield even comparably as much as Zuttah.  Jeremy gave our QB little to no room to ever step up into the pocket.  Meanwhile Wagner consistently moved his man out of the play.

And okay, you've called out my memory, so do you remember the last time a RT played as well as Wagner?  Everyone's making RT out to be some easy to replace position and I don't get it.  Especially this year.

Not only that, but how often do you see top pass rushers lined up on the center? Oh right, you don't.

[EdTheMythicalOne]

2 hours ago, 808Blackbirds said:

How come people only cry about the correa pick? what if correa was injured last season and we didnt know about it? i dont see poeple crying about the Kaufusi pick. People need to chill out on correa and just give him a chance to learn. Judge him when he gets on the field and plays.  It was his rookie season learning a new position. Orr been playing ILB of course he was going to win the starting job. 

If you don't know that people are complaining about the Kaufusi pick then you aren't looking hard enough. I didn't like the pick in the first place, he's an old rookie and will be one year older before he even gets to step on the field.

Orr hardly played any ILB before last season, so don't really come with that argument. He was simply a better player than Correa. Correa had a whole season to learn and he was on the field. I don't need to chill out on him, I am simply calling it like it is right now.

[arnie_uk]

3 minutes ago, The Raven said:

 

Not only that, but how often do you see top pass rushers lined up on the center? Oh right, you don't.

I love how bluntly honest you are. 

Edited March 10 by arnie_uk

[jazz1988]

1 hour ago, rmw10 said:

Not to completely derail the thread, but since there are some Wagner vs. Williams debates... where is the assumption that it's super easy to find a RT coming from?  The fact that Wagner got as much money as he did should show that it's not that easy or there wouldn't have been tons of competition for his services.  There are needs at RT all over the league.

I don't think any one is saying it's super easy (atleast i'm not)but it isn't super hard either. Ricky Wagner was the top free agent right tackle once free agency started. Not only was he the best available but the free agent market at right tackle isn't really all that great and the same can be said about this year draft. His agent had every opportunity to make him the highest paid right tackle in the league and Wagner is clearly better than  Lions former starting right tackle Riley Relief who was ranked 48 among right tackles.. Lions got the best right tackle available  but if this draft class was better  and there was more available  quality tackles in free agency then I don't think Wagner get's nearly as much as he did.

 

18 minutes ago, The Raven said:

 

Not only that, but how often do you see top pass rushers lined up on the center? Oh right, you don't.

Doesn't really matter where they line  up because top  pass rushers like Gerald Mccoy , Nadaukong Suh, Fletcher Cox, Calaisis Campbell, and more go up against centers all the time

Edited March 10 by jazz1988

[usmccharles]

23 minutes ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

If you don't know that people are complaining about the Kaufusi pick then you aren't looking hard enough. I didn't like the pick in the first place, he's an old rookie and will be one year older before he even gets to step on the field.

Orr hardly played any ILB before last season, so don't really come with that argument. He was simply a better player than Correa. Correa had a whole season to learn and he was on the field. I don't need to chill out on him, I am simply calling it like it is right now.

I haven't noticed anyone speaking out against that pick.  yea it sucks he got injured but the guy is a freak athlete, im excited to see him play. 

[Tank 92]

1 minute ago, usmccharles said:

I haven't noticed anyone speaking out against that pick.  yea it sucks he got injured but the guy is a freak athlete, im excited to see him play. 

Yeah, me too. His size and athleticism make him a potential game changer.

[EdTheMythicalOne]

1 minute ago, Tank 92 said:

Yeah, me too. His size and athleticism make him a potential game changer.

I'm excited to see every new Ravens player on the field and seeing what they got. The knock on Kaufusi is that he was weak and not very flexible in the legs. Hopefully he's worked on that this entire off season and I am looking forward to it, but...people were scratching their heads with the pick. People have been complaining about it. You just haven't seen the posts about it. I am not around here a whole lot and even I have seen them.

[usmccharles]

6 minutes ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

I'm excited to see every new Ravens player on the field and seeing what they got. The knock on Kaufusi is that he was weak and not very flexible in the legs. Hopefully he's worked on that this entire off season and I am looking forward to it, but...people were scratching their heads with the pick. People have been complaining about it. You just haven't seen the posts about it. I am not around here a whole lot and even I have seen them.

http://seahawksdraftblog.com/bronson-kaufusi-could-be-seattles-first-pick

In the 3 cone drill he was .03 seconds slower than sterling sheperad....

[jazz1988]

25 minutes ago, Purple_City39 said:

Whereas Zuttah allowed 3.5 sacks last season, let's also remember that as a center, he almost always has help from a guard.  Wagner as a RT will occasionally get help from a TE, but it's far more rare.

In addition, this is pure numbers that can be researched, but Wagner was not pushed into the backfield even comparably as much as Zuttah.  Jeremy gave our QB little to no room to ever step up into the pocket.  Meanwhile Wagner consistently moved his man out of the play.

And okay, you've called out my memory, so do you remember the last time a RT played as well as Wagner?  Everyone's making RT out to be some easy to replace position and I don't get it.  Especially this year.

I  thought it was far more rare for a left tackle to get help from a tight end than a right tackle. I didn't started paying attention to The Raven until 2008 but I always been a fan so I can't really dig deep on who really is the best right tackle The Ravens have ever had...  I don't think it will be too hard for The Ravens to find quality starting right tackle. This team has a solid history with finding offensive linemen so I'm not really worried about them finding one.

[Tank 92]

3 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

http://seahawksdraftblog.com/bronson-kaufusi-could-be-seattles-first-pick

In the 3 cone drill he was .03 seconds slower than sterling sheperad....

6'6", 285 with that quickness?  It ain't just a pipedeream, dude could be a beast. 

[PurpleHorseman]

5 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

6'6", 285 with that quickness?  It ain't just a pipedeream, dude could be a beast. 

Sometimes agility tests transfer sometimes not. He completely bombed at rush olb in college. And is considered weak to play the line in the NFL. He was told to work on himself for next year. Not a bust yet but not the freak some are making him.

[usmccharles]

30 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

6'6", 285 with that quickness?  It ain't just a pipedeream, dude could be a beast. 

Yea, its a good article.  Dude is a monster. 

[The Raven]

1 hour ago, arnie_uk said:

I love how bluntly honest you are. 

It's what I do. 

1 hour ago, jazz1988 said:

I don't think any one is saying it's super easy (atleast i'm not)but it isn't super hard either. Ricky Wagner was the top free agent right tackle once free agency started. Not only was he the best available but the free agent market at right tackle isn't really all that great and the same can be said about this year draft. His agent had every opportunity to make him the highest paid right tackle in the league and Wagner is clearly better than  Lions former starting right tackle Riley Relief who was ranked 48 among right tackles.. Lions got the best right tackle available  but if this draft class was better  and there was more available  quality tackles in free agency then I don't think Wagner get's nearly as much as he did.

 

Doesn't really matter where they line  up because top  pass rushers like Gerald Mccoy , Nadaukong Suh, Fletcher Cox, Calaisis Campbell, and more go up against centers all the time

Wrong again. Those guys tend to be at the B gap more than the A. Do you watch the line when you watch?

[BmoreBird22]

1 hour ago, The Raven said:

Because people buy into BS narratives. They naturally think that non-skill positions are easy to find. No idea why.

If it's so easy to find a RT why did we have such a crappy rotation of Jah Reid, Mike Oher, and who else before Wagner brought us stability? I'd like some people to answer that.

Although, to be fair, in watching Wagner's rookie season, while there were positives, to think he could have anything near the type of season he did in 2014 after watching 2013 is asinine. I think the Ravens coaching staff played a MASSIVE role in his development and ability to even get to the point that he's making $48M in FA.  

[jazz1988]

12 minutes ago, The Raven said:

It's what I do. 

Wrong again. Those guys tend to be at the B gap more than the A. Do you watch the line when you watch?

Are you really trying to tell me these guys don't go up against centers not even a little bit ? We talking about in a league  where  most  teams constantly try  to find mismatches and  etc  against opposing team so I doubt they don't.

Edited March 10 by jazz1988

[Willbacker]

Maybe Wagner just wanted to go back home. Notice how quick he signed.