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ALSKAN RAVEN FAN

Extended Brandon Williams

203 posts in this topic

guess the market value argument only applies to 1 certain player on this team.......

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15 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

in 5 seasons harrison has 4 sacks with 2,5 coming as a DT in the 4-3.
in 4 seasons b.williams has 5,5 sacks as a 3-4 NT.

TBH if you compare williams 4 years as a NT to harrison 4 years as a NT with the jets then williams edges out....

also id say that landon collins and signing janoris jenkins while drafting a guy like eli apple played a pretty big role as well.
that JPP fella being a year removed from him hand injury also helped out i guess....

 

I honestly had no idea that was the only type of production Harrison has posted but I also never acted like I have.  That's shocking considering everyone here says he offers alot more than Williams as a pass rusher. Unless the stats don't tell the whole truth and Harrison just doesn't convert his pressures into sacks. However I think,  while we did over pay a bit, a deal around Harrison's was Williams market value. 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

guess the market value argument only applies to 1 certain player on this team.......

I don't hate this move entirely. At least Williams is a well above average player. But I would've rather kept Wagner personally. It's more important to keep your QB upright, and also we had Pierce waiting in the wings who had proven to be a capable player last year. Whereas we have an unknown at RT right now. 

 

It's not a move that'll destroy us.. Williams is a good player and even in the modern nfl you need to stop the run. But I personally think us choosing Williams over Wagner is going to come back to bite us. 

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2 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

I don't hate this move entirely. At least Williams is a well above average player. But I would've rather kept Wagner personally. It's more important to keep your QB upright, and also we had Pierce waiting in the wings who had proven to be a capable player last year. Whereas we have an unknown at RT right now. 

 

It's not a move that'll destroy us.. Williams is a good player and even in the modern nfl you need to stop the run. But I personally think us choosing Williams over Wagner is going to come back to bite us. 

williams is among the best at NT.

also who said we picked williams over wagner?
seems to me williams was the only guy left so we went all in him.

if williams signed first somewhere else , we probably would have gone all in on wagner.
 

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2 hours ago, usmccharles said:

I think we overpaid as well... But I'm OK giving another mill or so to keep a player that could definitely make more money else where and is a vital part of our defense.   You have been on here long enough to know what I was implying.  I shouldn't have been literal, that's my bad. 

And actually I did see someone on here say something about 6mill a year.  Yes I did generalize it but merely pointing out that fans on either side are going to complain we did wrong. 

Of all the players to finally pony up market value to. This is where? Of all the players on the market that could really help us establish a 21st century identity. This is where our funds are shelled out? I mean Terrell Pryor, Kevin Zeitler, Alshon Jeffrey,Osemele, Gilmore, Claiborne. Management decides to overpay a run stuffer that leaves the field on passing downs in a passing league. 

Joe plays his best football when he is protected. Where is this elite offensive line Harbaugh and Newsome talked about? We shelled out for a run stuffing box safety and a run stuffing one dimensional NT that leaves the field on passing downs.  Hoping some practice squadders step up is the elite offensive line senator Harbaugh spoke of? What happens every time he says we feel good about our receivers? Now he is going to be saying it about the offensive line to. Yanda is no spring chicken. He could decline. He is going into season 11. We let 2 lineman walk. Yanda could decline and that is not a plan for offensive success.  Do you like watching the patriots winning super bowls? 

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1 minute ago, Tru11 said:

williams is among the best at NT.

also who said we picked williams over wagner?
seems to me williams was the only guy left so we went all in him.

if williams signed first somewhere else , we probably would have gone all in on wagner.
 

Let me rephrase that. If we were going to overpay anyone, I'd rather it be Wagner. In today's NFL pass rushers are beggining to line up on both sides. You need to have a RT that's excellent in pass protection, which Wagner is. 

 

Honestly. I could see our defense being significantly better next season, as not only should we add a pass rusher via the draft, but guys like Kaufausi, Judon, Young, etc will grow. But I am legit worried about the offense.

 

IT doesn't matter who you're QB/RBs are if you don't have a good line to protect them.

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There's absolutely no way we signed a two down lineman that plays 60 of lucky percent of the snaps to 11 mil per year.

Has to be lies 

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Better not see a 100 yard rusher against us in the next five years or the mayflower trucks will be back to clear out the front office from top to bottom. 

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It's close to calais Campbell money for flip sake.

Jeepers.

Don't get me wrong good player and all that but 90 percent of this board only 3 or 4 days ago didn't want to pay him 8 mil per year let alone 11.

He plays 61 percent of the snaps.

Where was he when pitts ended our season in a 75 yards drive in 60 seconds.

Oh yeah.... sitting on the sidelines because he can't rush the passer.

Building the roster like it's the year 2000

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2 minutes ago, arnie_uk said:

Where was he when pitts ended our season in a 75 yards drive in 60 seconds.

Oh yeah.... sitting on the sidelines because he can't rush the passer.

Neither could anyone else.

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5 minutes ago, Jonah DeVito said:

Neither could anyone else.

They aren't paid 11 mil per year to sit on the sideline in crunch time

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5 minutes ago, arnie_uk said:

They aren't paid 11 mil per year to sit on the sideline in crunch time

Everyone has their role, but honestly I would've played him on that last drive. He couldn't have been worse than who we had out there. But I am curious, how much did you expect the Ravens to offer him?

Edited by Jonah DeVito
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36 minutes ago, arnie_uk said:

They aren't paid 11 mil per year to sit on the sideline in crunch time

To be fair, neither was BW last year.

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1 hour ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

Let me rephrase that. If we were going to overpay anyone, I'd rather it be Wagner. In today's NFL pass rushers are beggining to line up on both sides. You need to have a RT that's excellent in pass protection, which Wagner is. 

 

Honestly. I could see our defense being significantly better next season, as not only should we add a pass rusher via the draft, but guys like Kaufausi, Judon, Young, etc will grow. But I am legit worried about the offense.

 

IT doesn't matter who you're QB/RBs are if you don't have a good line to protect them.

he is not overpaid.
Its called market value.

or is this an exclusive argument for just 1 particular person only?

 

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7 hours ago, ravensnick said:

And it's not very surprising Correa didn't contribute that much last year. He was a very raw player, who also had to learn multiple position for a complicated Ravens defense. Ozzie knew that Correa might not be a day 1 starter, but if we can put 2 and 2 together, he has an upside as high as almost anyone in that draft class.

I'm disappointed at the idea that he may never become an edge guy, but I think he looked like a solid fit at ILB, he didn't look lost and was near the ball pretty consistently, just a step late sometimes which tells me he was thinking too much. I think he takes the ilb job and runs with it, I doubt he'll be playing like Orr was last year but he should be serviceable at worst

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7 hours ago, Edgar said:

I won't attempt to predict what happens this year with Correa but come on....Correa didn't win any starting ILB spot.

That is some fashion of odd revisionism.

He was running with the starters and performing well most of TC(reportedly) and preseason seemingly until the scuffles he got into. He was the favorite to start there until about week 3 of preseason when he suddenly disappeared after the pitta and flacco debacle at practice  

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3 hours ago, Jonah DeVito said:

Everyone has their role, but honestly I would've played him on that last drive. He couldn't have been worse than who we had out there. But I am curious, how much did you expect the Ravens to offer him?

Harrison got 5 45. That's 9 mil per. I don't think Williams is as good, albeit I've only seen him in limited action.

Personally I wouldn't have paid him. Perfect 80 20 rule with pierce. Use the money elsewhere.  I would have just let the titans take him, who, by the reports, were the only other team interested. 

Edited by arnie_uk
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6 hours ago, AnthonyGames said:

Can Pierce play DT along song Williams at NT?

Yes 

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6 hours ago, Tru11 said:

guess the market value argument only applies to 1 certain player on this team.......

I see your point, but QB is the one position you absolutely need to fill with some adequate in order to be remotely relevant. It's better to have a capable guy than to gamble on getting someone else at a position like QB. One in the hand is worth two in the bush.

For other positions, I think market value is fair because for the most part, they don't have the every-play impact that a QB does.

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I was most certainly one of wanting to keep BW. But given the choice between the two, I would have chose to keep Wagner.

My thoughts behind losing BW was that we'd also lose Guy and that would be horrible to our run defense. I would have liked to see him signed for $7-8 million a year. $11 million was just a pure shock. I'm glad that he is back with the Ravens, but like others have said, I can't agree with that salary.

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2 minutes ago, Ravens4Real said:

I was most certainly one of wanting to keep BW. But given the choice between the two, I would have chose to keep Wagner.

My thoughts behind losing BW was that we'd also lose Guy and that would be horrible to our run defense. I would have liked to see him signed for $7-8 million a year. $11 million was just a pure shock. I'm glad that he is back with the Ravens, but like others have said, I can't agree with that salary.

Just think in 2 offseasons that will be the average salary for a NT

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He's a top flight NT, that's what you have to pay. I understand the arguments for the younger, cheaper players but the Ravens were aggressive in wanting to keep him. I'm glad he's back.

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6 hours ago, Tru11 said:

guess the market value argument only applies to 1 certain player on this team.......

 

6 hours ago, Tru11 said:

williams is among the best at NT.

also who said we picked williams over wagner?
seems to me williams was the only guy left so we went all in him.

if williams signed first somewhere else , we probably would have gone all in on wagner.
 

👀

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4 hours ago, Tru11 said:

he is not overpaid.
Its called market value.

or is this an exclusive argument for just 1 particular person only?

 

In a passing league, a QB coming off a historic post season run on his way to superbowl winning MVP becoming the highest paid at his position is market value.

In a passing league, a DT/NT who can only stop the run coming off a season that ended with opposing teams running all over his defense becoming the highest paid at his position is overpaid.

And no, it's not exclusive because if we'd have given Wagner the same contract he received instead of paying Williams, I'd fully agree he earned market value.  Since he's a top end pass blocking RT in a passing league

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34 minutes ago, berad said:

He's a top flight NT, that's what you have to pay. I understand the arguments for the younger, cheaper players but the Ravens were aggressive in wanting to keep him. I'm glad he's back.

Wagner is viewed as a top flight tackle. Osemele a top flight guard,  etc.

Curious investment to me. We can replace guys on the offensive line with rookies and unproven players apparently but break the bank on Williams ?

 

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26 minutes ago, Purple_City39 said:

In a passing league, a QB coming off a historic post season run on his way to superbowl winning MVP becoming the highest paid at his position is market value.

In a passing league, a DT/NT who can only stop the run coming off a season that ended with opposing teams running all over his defense becoming the highest paid at his position is overpaid.

And no, it's not exclusive because if we'd have given Wagner the same contract he received instead of paying Williams, I'd fully agree he earned market value.  Since he's a top end pass blocking RT in a passing league

I think you underestimate what Brandon Williams does.

Williams is one of the best if not the best defensive lineman against the run. He basically can stop the run by himself. He allows Suggs and others to be able to rush the quarterback more often. People look at his stats and think he should get paid off of his stats, when in reality he should get paid what he contributes to this team.

He does a lot of the dirty work on this team much like Jarrett Johnson so many years ago even though it is a different position. 

Wagner is in the bottom half of the league against the run and the front office said they want maulers and they want to emphasize running the ball again. That is the exact opposite of Wagner. The Ravens have replaced RT's in the draft relatively easily before I'm sure they can again. Also there are cheaper options later around training camp. 

I think he is overpaid as of now as well, but think in 2 years he will be on pace and you are keeping one of your defensive franchise pieces.

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2 minutes ago, Edgar said:

Wagner is viewed as a top flight tackle. Osemele a top flight guard,  etc.

Curious investment to me. We can replace guys on the offensive line with rookies and unproven players apparently but break the bank on Williams ?

 

The team would be replacing Williams with young unproven players as well.

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3 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

He was running with the starters and performing well most of TC(reportedly) and preseason seemingly until the scuffles he got into. He was the favorite to start there until about week 3 of preseason when he suddenly disappeared after the pitta and flacco debacle at practice  

I understand the history. Doesn't mean he won the job as you definitively put forth.....

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1 minute ago, Edgar said:

I understand the history. Doesn't mean he won the job as you definitively put forth.....

I agree, training camp means nothing. He was running with first team because a lot of the actual starters weren't in camp and were also being given a lot of days off. And of course he was getting playing time in the preseason games. That's what it is for is to take a look at your rookies and recent signings. You don't need to run your #1's out there for four full pre season games because you generally know what you've got already.

He was relegated to back up duty as soon as the real season started and that's what counts. He didn't win anything other than the hype machine.

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