EdTheMythicalOne

Are the Ravens Rebuilding?

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Are the Bengals rebuilding? I mean sheesh they've had a rough Free Agency losing two starters both of whom are top three at their respective positions. Jeez I mean you can't do worse. 

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What I will say is this. The way the offseason is going thus far for the defense is fanatic. Tony Jefferson is a very good addition. Keeping Brandon Williams, even at the overpay isn't a horrible move. He's an integral part of the run defense and the anchor to a good front 7. If we can pull Claiborne off, that's gonna help the pass rush a lot. All we'd have to do is add another ILB, and another pass rusher, and we are talking about a potentially improved defense. 

 

But Ozzie.. STOP NEGLECTING THE OFFENSE. You invested $120 million + in your SB winning Qb, who's more than capable of going to win another one. GO GET HIM A LINE. Stanley and Yanda are good pieces, but we need a RT. We need another guard. People keep claimoring for weapons. Screw that. The line is so much more important. 

 

For god's sake's. 

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I thought we were in a rebuilding phase but I'm not sure the FO sees it that way. As I said in the free agency thread, I don't think you make the deals we've made unless you think you can win now and Jefferson is the piece to get us over the hump.

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It's like we are just shifting pieces, not rebuilding. Rebuilding We would start from ground zero. We were and still are a competitive team.

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Before free agency began I thought this team was going to let Williams walk and I didn't think they'd be able to get Tony Jefferson. The Jefferson signing might have jump started everything else the Ravens are now doing to put this team back together again and make another run at staying a competitive team for years to come. This has been the way of the world with Steve Bisciotti at the helm.

As for the Bengals they did lose two big pieces, but they've still got a good core of players to replace those positions. With the Ravens it was; at the time I made this, looking like they would be losing a lot of big players due to FA and simply age/salary cap cuts. I didn't think they would bring in Tony Jefferson or resign Williams so that would mean going with the guys you got or drafting their replacements.

What the front office has done so far is give this team a chance again. If some of the draft picks of the last two years finally deliver and they hit a couple of home runs in this year's draft we could be looking at a very good season provided everyone stays healthy.

If the Ravens can bring in Claiborne or Akamura for CB that could be a very big deal for the defense.

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3 minutes ago, Kid87 said:

It's like we are just shifting pieces, not rebuilding. Rebuilding We would start from ground zero. We were and still are a competitive team.

I agree. It is looking like just another off season from the guys inside 1 Winning Drive. I explained why I started this thread in my previous post.

This is why while it might be frustrating at times, it is still good to be a Ravens fan. It could be a lot worse, we could be the current Browns.

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If the team was rebuilding they would be trading all the players they could for draft picks and not resigning everybody...

Looks the complete opposite. I think the team believes they are very close to having that elite defense again. They were #1 in the league through 12 weeks and probably would've continued if Jimmy Smith was still in the line up.

Adding a guy like Reubon Foster through draft and the Jefferson signing would put this defense through the roof. Especially if they got someone like Claiborne who is also a shutdown corner when healthy. 

It is insane how good the Ravens safety trio is at this moment. Really hoping they keep Webb and are able to utilize Jefferson in a LB/Safety role.

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1 minute ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

I agree. It is looking like just another off season from the guys inside 1 Winning Drive. I explained why I started this thread in my previous post.

This is why while it might be frustrating at times, it is still good to be a Ravens fan. It could be a lot worse, we could be the current Browns.

Browns are looking up right now though. Really excited to see where they are going. 

After this next season I don't think it will be the Browns everyone is bashing. I actually think the Browns are looking out and Cincinnati is looking down.

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3 minutes ago, trevorsteadman said:

Browns are looking up right now though. Really excited to see where they are going. 

After this next season I don't think it will be the Browns everyone is bashing. I actually think the Browns are looking out and Cincinnati is looking down.

i hope so because i kind of have a soft spot for the browns, i couldnt believe how excited i got when they won a game last year and i like the moneyball guys and i want them to do well because it really looks like their process is working (at least in some form) but it is more of a longerterm turnaround style of team building and if they dont start doing well i think jim haslam might get impatient and get rid

whereas i really don't like the bengals...

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2 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

i hope so because i kind of have a soft spot for the browns, i couldnt believe how excited i got when they won a game last year and i like the moneyball guys and i want them to do well because it really looks like their process is working (at least in some form) but it is more of a longerterm turnaround style of team building and if they dont start doing well i think jim haslam might get impatient and get rid

whereas i really don't like the bengals...

I feel bad for AJ Green to be honest he is one of my favorite players to watch. But I hate the Bengals overall. I feel for the Browns as well just because of how bad they have been. A few years ago when they got 7 wins or whatever I felt like maybe they were looking up, but later they crashed and burned. 

Looks like the Bengals haven't really improved yet this offseason and lost a lot of key veterans much like the year before. I think they are the in the AFC North basement now.

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3 minutes ago, trevorsteadman said:

I feel bad for AJ Green to be honest he is one of my favorite players to watch. But I hate the Bengals overall. I feel for the Browns as well just because of how bad they have been. A few years ago when they got 7 wins or whatever I felt like maybe they were looking up, but later they crashed and burned. 

Looks like the Bengals haven't really improved yet this offseason and lost a lot of key veterans much like the year before. I think they are the in the AFC North basement now.

The Browns actually had a 10-6 season a while back with former Raven Derek Anderson at QB. It looked like they were ready to turn it all around. Then they had an injury plagued follow up season that was like the Ravens a couple seasons ago...then they had a staph infection outbreak. Then they had some bad luck big name free agent signing blow ups like Lecharles Bentley who was a legit center before he blew out his knee in the first day of training camp and never played again.

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3 minutes ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

The Browns actually had a 10-6 season a while back with former Raven Derek Anderson at QB. It looked like they were ready to turn it all around. Then they had an injury plagued follow up season that was like the Ravens a couple seasons ago...then they had a staph infection outbreak. Then they had some bad luck big name free agent signing blow ups like Lecharles Bentley who was a legit center before he blew out his knee in the first day of training camp and never played again.

Yeah back in 2007 I remember that. But I was thinking about 2014 when they went 7-9 and three teams from the AFC North went to the playoffs like they do most the time. I mean 7-9 in that division was a pretty impressive feat for that team. Especially when the Ravens, Bengals, and Steelers all had 10-11 wins. I really thought they would perform better in 2015. Seems like whenever they are looking up they crash down again.

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16 minutes ago, trevorsteadman said:

Browns are looking up right now though. Really excited to see where they are going. 

After this next season I don't think it will be the Browns everyone is bashing. I actually think the Browns are looking out and Cincinnati is looking down.

I like Hue Jackson and I think he's a good coach but there is some sort of curse over the Browns. Their front office never sticks with a plan for very long and there is just a dark cloud hanging over the team.

The Browns are looking up? Last time I checked they don't have a starting QB. They traded for Osweiler but everyone thinks he will be cut or traded, the Browns just wanted the draft pick. They might be able to get a Jimmy G trade done...and even if they do is he really a legit franchise QB? They don't have a real #1 running back, they have some holes on the O-line, they don't have a great WR, they have a good but rather old TE in Barnidge, and their defense has a few nice pieces but overall it is pretty bad. They have a ton of draft picks, but didn't they have like 13 picks last year or the year before and how did that work out?

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1 minute ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

I like Hue Jackson and I think he's a good coach but there is some sort of curse over the Browns. Their front office never sticks with a plan for very long and there is just a dark cloud hanging over the team.

The Browns are looking up? Last time I checked they don't have a starting QB. They traded for Osweiler but everyone thinks he will be cut or traded, the Browns just wanted the draft pick. They might be able to get a Jimmy G trade done...and even if they do is he really a legit franchise QB? They don't have a real #1 running back, they have some holes on the O-line, they don't have a great WR, they have a good but rather old TE in Barnidge, and their defense has a few nice pieces but overall it is pretty bad. They have a ton of draft picks, but didn't they have like 13 picks last year or the year before and how did that work out?

You don't need a starting quarterback to be looking up. I feel like everyone feels a team needs a quarterback to be looking up. I would rather have a team built around the quarterback before finding a franchise quarterback to have him succeed. They already had a solid o-line that was top 10 and they just added more pieces to it. Barnidge is productive and they have Coleman and Britt and if Pryor comes back that would be insane. 

They have 8 draft picks now in the first 2 rounds in the next 2 drafts. Plus a lot of firepower to move up with those picks. I really think you are underestimating the draft power the Browns have the next two years.

Osweiler was to just get a 2nd round pick. They weren't going to use the cap. 

It won't be fixed in one offseason like people expect every team to do but they are learning to build a successful franchise. So when they find that quarterback they like even if it isn't this year, then they will have pieces around them to succeed.

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1 minute ago, trevorsteadman said:

You don't need a starting quarterback to be looking up. I feel like everyone feels a team needs a quarterback to be looking up. I would rather have a team built around the quarterback before finding a franchise quarterback to have him succeed. They already had a solid o-line that was top 10 and they just added more pieces to it. Barnidge is productive and they have Coleman and Britt and if Pryor comes back that would be insane. 

They have 8 draft picks now in the first 2 rounds in the next 2 drafts. Plus a lot of firepower to move up with those picks. I really think you are underestimating the draft power the Browns have the next two years.

Osweiler was to just get a 2nd round pick. They weren't going to use the cap. 

It won't be fixed in one offseason like people expect every team to do but they are learning to build a successful franchise. So when they find that quarterback they like even if it isn't this year, then they will have pieces around them to succeed.

You need a decent starting QB to have even a chance and a ground game to go along with it. These are things the Browns don't have. While the Browns have added to the O-Line, they lost Alex Mack and Joe Thomas is not getting any younger. By the time the team (if) turns around Joe Thomas won't be a part of that and there's a franchise LT to replace which don't exactly grow on trees. I don't knock Barnidge at all, he's good. Britt got way overpaid and is very inconsistent and with who knows at QB he probably won't have a great season. I don't know about Pryor coming back but that would probably help a great deal.

I am not underestimating the power of the draft picks. More is generally better. I am basing my opinion on the recent track record of the Browns drafting which has been pretty poor. My case in point is that they had 13 picks either last year or the year before and where did it get them? They've had a top 5 pick in the first round for what...like a decade now and where has it gotten them?

I know it won't take one off season to rebuild the team but the Browns front office doesn't seem to think that way. They fire coaches after 1 or 1 and 1/2 seasons and get new front office pieces and they never get an established system in place. It would be nice to see them keep Hue Jackson around for several seasons and try to implement his system and see how it goes. I mean, they aren't getting anywhere with the previous way they have been doing business.

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8 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Are the Bengals rebuilding? I mean sheesh they've had a rough Free Agency losing two starters both of whom are top three at their respective positions. Jeez I mean you can't do worse. 

My how they've fallen off.

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The Browns really dissapointed me when they cut that last regime. I though they're coaching staff was loaded.

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5 minutes ago, CalvinSmoke said:

The Browns really dissapointed me when they cut that last regime. I though they're coaching staff was loaded.

I'm actually pulling for Hue Jackson and hope the Browns do well. Their fans deserve it. I just hope they don't do better than the Ravens well :)

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1 hour ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

I like Hue Jackson and I think he's a good coach but there is some sort of curse over the Browns. Their front office never sticks with a plan for very long and there is just a dark cloud hanging over the team.

it's because of the indian burial ground

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1 minute ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

You need a decent starting QB to have even a chance and a ground game to go along with it. These are things the Browns don't have. While the Browns have added to the O-Line, they lost Alex Mack and Joe Thomas is not getting any younger. By the time the team (if) turns around Joe Thomas won't be a part of that and there's a franchise LT to replace which don't exactly grow on trees. I don't knock Barnidge at all, he's good. Britt got way overpaid and is very inconsistent and with who knows at QB he probably won't have a great season. I don't know about Pryor coming back but that would probably help a great deal.

I am not underestimating the power of the draft picks. More is generally better. I am basing my opinion on the recent track record of the Browns drafting which has been pretty poor. My case in point is that they had 13 picks either last year or the year before and where did it get them? They've had a top 5 pick in the first round for what...like a decade now and where has it gotten them?

I know it won't take one off season to rebuild the team but the Browns front office doesn't seem to think that way. They fire coaches after 1 or 1 and 1/2 seasons and get new front office pieces and they never get an established system in place. It would be nice to see them keep Hue Jackson around for several seasons and try to implement his system and see how it goes. I mean, they aren't getting anywhere with the previous way they have been doing business.

You need a decent starting QB to make it to the super bowl. You don't need one to get the franchise running in the right direction. People act like they need a quarterback THIS YEAR and nobody believes even with a quality quarterback that the Browns can win now. They are looking over the next 5 years and you can tell by the moves they are making.

They lost Mack but they still have an incredible o-line after they just signed a few people. They haven't had luck with past draft picks but that also has to do with the position they put some of those players in. Are you really already giving grades to their draft of last year it has only been one season.

Hue Jackson will likely stay for another two or three years. They are best off to keep getting draft picks until they find their franchise guy either that is cut/traded or via draft. I reallydon't think Garropolo should be an option. In my mind you draft these next two drafts to fill in players around the quarterback so a guy can come in and make an immediate impact.

The Ravens did that with Flacco and went to an AFC Championship the year he was drafted. The Broncos did that while getting Peyton Manning and went to the super bowl his second year there, but ultimately lost. The Seahawks did that with Wilson and in his 2nd year they won a superbowl.

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2 hours ago, trevorsteadman said:

You need a decent starting QB to make it to the super bowl. You don't need one to get the franchise running in the right direction. People act like they need a quarterback THIS YEAR and nobody believes even with a quality quarterback that the Browns can win now. They are looking over the next 5 years and you can tell by the moves they are making.

They lost Mack but they still have an incredible o-line after they just signed a few people. They haven't had luck with past draft picks but that also has to do with the position they put some of those players in. Are you really already giving grades to their draft of last year it has only been one season.

Hue Jackson will likely stay for another two or three years. They are best off to keep getting draft picks until they find their franchise guy either that is cut/traded or via draft. I reallydon't think Garropolo should be an option. In my mind you draft these next two drafts to fill in players around the quarterback so a guy can come in and make an immediate impact.

The Ravens did that with Flacco and went to an AFC Championship the year he was drafted. The Broncos did that while getting Peyton Manning and went to the super bowl his second year there, but ultimately lost. The Seahawks did that with Wilson and in his 2nd year they won a superbowl.

So you are saying that the most important position on the field is not a big deal and you can win and turn a franchise around with a poor QB, not even a decent one? That's what you're saying. Of course you need a decent QB to turn a franchise around. You at least need a game manager that won't hurt your team and gives you a chance to win. Then once you get your team in the right direction you get that franchise guy. But you can't keep relying on career journeymen backups and injury prone has been starters to try to turn it around.

Their line is not all that incredible. They got nothing going on the ground and they got every starting QB for the team hurt last year...or don't you remember that?

Hue Jackson will only stay for as long as the front office lets him. If the Browns are smart they will not pull the plug too early.

Let me remind you of the history of Joe Flacco and how he came to be the starter.

1) Kyle Boller got injured.

2) Troy Smith was supposed to be the starter and essentially had the job handed to him. He got a severe tonsil infection and missed most of training camp and almost all of pre season.

3) Joe Flacco was the only healthy body on the roster. It was not the plan for him to be the starter. He got the job by default. We just lucked out in that Joe is actually a pretty good Qb and in the right system with the right players he can be special.

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5 hours ago, The Raven said:

I thought we were in a rebuilding phase but I'm not sure the FO sees it that way. As I said in the free agency thread, I don't think you make the deals we've made unless you think you can win now and Jefferson is the piece to get us over the hump.

Jefferson is the kind of guy to put the defense over the top if we can get a pass rusher in the draft. He's a heat seeking missile who's good vs. the run, good in coverage, and if you send him in on blitzes he's deadly. He was one of the most underrated players in the league at Arizona and frankly.. I'm super glad we got him.

 

But the offense still worries me. That being said. The night is still young and there's still a few people we could go get. I like Woodhead. If healthy, he's an excellent weapon to have.   But we still need another receiver and olinemen. 

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2 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

Jefferson is the kind of guy to put the defense over the top if we can get a pass rusher in the draft. He's a heat seeking missile who's good vs. the run, good in coverage, and if you send him in on blitzes he's deadly. He was one of the most underrated players in the league at Arizona and frankly.. I'm super glad we got him.

 

But the offense still worries me. That being said. The night is still young and there's still a few people we could go get. I like Woodhead. If healthy, he's an excellent weapon to have.   But we still need another receiver and olinemen. 

Definitely more work to be done.

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4 hours ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

So you are saying that the most important position on the field is not a big deal and you can win and turn a franchise around with a poor QB, not even a decent one? That's what you're saying. Of course you need a decent QB to turn a franchise around. You at least need a game manager that won't hurt your team and gives you a chance to win. Then once you get your team in the right direction you get that franchise guy. But you can't keep relying on career journeymen backups and injury prone has been starters to try to turn it around.

Their line is not all that incredible. They got nothing going on the ground and they got every starting QB for the team hurt last year...or don't you remember that?

Hue Jackson will only stay for as long as the front office lets him. If the Browns are smart they will not pull the plug too early.

Let me remind you of the history of Joe Flacco and how he came to be the starter.

1) Kyle Boller got injured.

2) Troy Smith was supposed to be the starter and essentially had the job handed to him. He got a severe tonsil infection and missed most of training camp and almost all of pre season.

3) Joe Flacco was the only healthy body on the roster. It was not the plan for him to be the starter. He got the job by default. We just lucked out in that Joe is actually a pretty good Qb and in the right system with the right players he can be special.

How do you not think Thomas-Bitonio-Tretter-Zeitler-Coleman is a good O-line? 

The Browns were at top 10 o-line last year whether you want to believe it or not. They just added to that o-line today and have a few promising rookies as well.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-ranking-all-32-nfl-offensive-lines-entering-week-11/

 

Also so what does it matter how Flacco got the starting job? The Ravens would rather start a veteran over a rookie. Especially when they knew ahead of time they had 5 years or less of a window to win a championship. They had pieces around him that helped him succeed in his career. The Browns are better off fixing those other needs other than quarterback instead of wasting cap space on the most expensive piece on a roster and wasting their career trying to find 20 other players to play around him.

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1 hour ago, trevorsteadman said:

How do you not think Thomas-Bitonio-Tretter-Zeitler-Coleman is a good O-line? 

The Browns were at top 10 o-line last year whether you want to believe it or not. They just added to that o-line today and have a few promising rookies as well.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-ranking-all-32-nfl-offensive-lines-entering-week-11/

 

Also so what does it matter how Flacco got the starting job? The Ravens would rather start a veteran over a rookie. Especially when they knew ahead of time they had 5 years or less of a window to win a championship. They had pieces around him that helped him succeed in his career. The Browns are better off fixing those other needs other than quarterback instead of wasting cap space on the most expensive piece on a roster and wasting their career trying to find 20 other players to play around him.

To answer your first question and to address your cherry-picking of line rankings:

1) Results. Whether they rated out well on some rankings individually might be all fine and good. It is what they do collectively that really matters in the end. What to the results tell you? I will provide the actual stats for you so that you don't use a certain week's ranking to make your points.

Total Offense Yards: 30th

Rushing Yards: 19th

Passing Yards: 28th.

Then there is PFF's actual FULL YEAR of 2016 rankings which rates the line as 16th overall. That's right smack dab in the middle of the pack which means they're okay, not great. Again I will bring up my point that in your plan of taking several years to rebuild, some of those veteran guys will be gone, especially their best piece Joe Thomas.

I'm also curious as to what you think of the Ravens offensive line for 2016? I am sure many fans would think they didn't do a terrific job because Flacco was constantly pressured and hit and the ground game wasn't spectacular. According to PFF though, they were ranked 9th overall for the entire season. Really? The Ravens actually had a top 10 OL? Just to put those rankings into some sort of perspective.

Your second part:

Not really sure what the part of this comment is. The Ravens didn't just hand the reigns over to a rookie QB thinking he was the franchise guy. Of course they were hoping he would be but it wasn't the plan to start him year one. Troy Smith isn't exactly an established veteran QB anyway and never amounted to much at all. The roster already had some quality players on offense to help Flacco and once he showed what he could to with it, the Ravens kept trying to add. That only makes sense. It was essentially the same offense that Kyle Boller had to work with and he couldn't get the job done. So that just goes to show you that yes, you need a good QB to turn a team around. You can have great players around him, but without a captain for your ship it will crash.

How is it wasting your money if you get yourself your franchise QB? I would think you'd be wasting even more money spending tons of cash on elite playmakers only to have nobody to get them the ball. Oh, and last time I checked the offense only has 11 guys on it, so that would be 10 guys playing around him.

At this point it is clear we're not going to agree on this issue and this thread about the Ravens and their apparently now not really rebuilding off season but more of a restocking. I suggest we move on to that if you have anything to say about it. I don't really care as much about what the Browns are or are not doing.

Edited by EdTheMythicalOne
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I believe they think they're close. You know Webb is a liability, regardless what fans like, so you go get the #5 ranked safety and 1 in the box to play SS and move Weddle to FS. Instant upgrade. You keep your run stuffing NT and work on his stamina so he doesn't fade over the last quarter of the season. You know you're losing your FB whom you never really used as a lead blocker but more of a flat catcher and replaced him with someone better at that. 

Theres still work to do, mainly we need another top notch corner as you can't trust Jimmy, and you need a mediocre MLB, A upgrade at C(maybe a short term rental like Mangold to coach up a possible 3rd pick) and you need a LG, assuming Lewis slides to RT, or you need a RT. Either or. 

Luckily this draft is very deep at DB and S and pass rushers. Personally I wouldn't even bother with pass rusher. We've drafted a bunch over the past 2 years that have been overly hyped. Someone has GOT to step up. Draft the best DB on the board at 16, in the 2nd and 3rd, no projects take BPA regardless of position. 

The moves they've made aren't rebuilding moves. They're let's upgrade a couple places and make a run moves. 

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1 minute ago, terrynjulia03 said:

I believe they think they're close. You know Webb is a liability, regardless what fans like, so you go get the #5 ranked safety and 1 in the box to play SS and move Weddle to FS. Instant upgrade. You keep your run stuffing NT and work on his stamina so he doesn't fade over the last quarter of the season. You know you're losing your FB whom you never really used as a lead blocker but more of a flat catcher and replaced him with someone better at that. 

Theres still work to do, mainly we need another top notch corner as you can't trust Jimmy, and you need a mediocre MLB, A upgrade at C(maybe a short term rental like Mangold to coach up a possible 3rd pick) and you need a LG, assuming Lewis slides to RT, or you need a RT. Either or. 

Luckily this draft is very deep at DB and S and pass rushers. Personally I wouldn't even bother with pass rusher. We've drafted a bunch over the past 2 years that have been overly hyped. Someone has GOT to step up. Draft the best DB on the board at 16, in the 2nd and 3rd, no projects take BPA regardless of position. 

The moves they've made aren't rebuilding moves. They're let's upgrade a couple places and make a run moves. 

I liked Webb but he doesn't offer the same thing at Tony Jefferson and I feel Weddle is good enough in coverage to be a FS. Overall I think this is an upgrade. Keeping Brandon Williams was nice and will pretty much insure we will have a good run defense again. For the investment I would like to see him staying on the field more.

Juice was actually a decent lead blocker and they did use him a lot in that role. I am sure the team already has a plan on a replacement or will find one they like. Who knows, maybe in Trestman's offense we go single back?

I agree with you about the defensive backs. Jimmy is great when healthy but that is not very often and we have no clear answer on the other side of the ball. I think we need to sign Claiborne and draft a top tier CB talent and hope they pan out.

We need more than a mediocre MLB, we need another starter next to Mosley. I am not sure if Correa is the guy...again, unless the Ravens are planning to move to a 4-3 defense as a base...which I doubt. I am sure there will be some veteran cut here that the Ravens will try to milk the last couple of good seasons out of.

Mangold looks to be the option at center if they are going to make a change. The only other option I see is potentially Matt Skura or John Urschel...and I am not sure if either of them is better than Zuttah. We do need another guard and whether it is left or right depends on Yanda really. He wants to move back to RG which is fine, but if that injury he sustained last year is still lingering I think he's better at LG. Then you can possibly sign D.J. Fluker to play RG or RT. I am not so sure Alex Lewis is a good fit at LG.

I think you always draft a pass rusher at some point. You can never have too many. The reason why is precisely for the reason you state. We've drafted some and they aren't producing. Time to cut them if we can get somebody better.

And I agree, Steve Bisciotti is still sticking to his original statement. That he does not believe in "rebuilding."

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On ‎3‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 7:17 PM, sflegend89 said:

At this point we might have to just blow it up and look forward to 2018. .

its goin so bad for the rayvans that we even missed the blowup oppurtunity.  its really gotten to comicle. if we had dropped the nuk bomb and traded flacco to the brownees we'd be sittin on a really nice rebuild for 2019 but insted we are gonna do it the hard way and its gonna take a lot longer.  lesson number 1 you don't pay cap buster salaries to a qb you cant build ur team aroun

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3 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

^ don't do it people.... Don't do it

was about to do it - literally quoted his post then saw yours... so for that i thank you

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