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EdTheMythicalOne

Are the Ravens Rebuilding?

80 posts in this topic

This is a term Owner Steve Bisciotti hates to use and said that the Ravens would never be "rebuilding" because he wants a team that is consistently competitive and has a chance for the playoffs and better every season. To his credit under the Harbaugh era that has been true. The Ravens have tried to keep their core stars around and have had only two losing seasons under Harbaugh; and the first one you can toss out because of all of the disastrous injuries that swept through the roster.

But we're seeing key names and players leave due to market issues and the amount of money the Ravens are already paying others. Rick Wagner is gone, Juice is gone, I feel very strongly that Brandon Williams will be gone, Dumervil is gone, and Suggs will not be playing much longer. Add in Yanda not getting any younger and we have no wide receivers of much merit other than Mike Wallace who also might be cut. Webb may be gone, Jimmy Smith can't stay healthy, Lawrence Guy is gone, Zuttah is probably gone, and Dennis Pitta will either take a pay cut or simply be cut.

Time to go young with the draft and adopt a New England approach. They never sign the really high priced free agents to huge mega deals. But they also seem to have a coach and organization that while players may not always like it...they just win and winning is everything.

Harbaugh is very much a players' coach. He likes them to express themselves and be themselves. Bill Bilicheck for all you may hate him for does not play that. You either do it his way and you play, or you can get lost on the bench and cut.

It will depend on this draft class and the previous ones as to how well the Ravens can do until their next superstars emerge..if ever.

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3 minutes ago, ThatsMyJoeTerback said:

It has to start with good drafting, which hasn't been the case with us for some of the last few years.

They need to hit bona fide home runs with the top two picks this year and also keep finding gems in the mid to late rounds for this team to get back to the way it once was. We can't have these years where our top 2-3 picks are either busts or can't be on the field for 2-3 years of their rookie contracts due to injuries. They also have to hope that the top guys from the previous couple of seasons step up. Maxx Williams, Correa, Perriman, etc.

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They better be..because anything otherwise is flawed denial.

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I think we have more needs than opportunities to meet those needs this off season. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

They better be..because anything otherwise is flawed denial.

You can polish some bovine scat but it is still bovine scat.

I honestly can't think of a way you can sell this team with all these departures as a contender next season.

Yes, we still have Joe Flacco...and he's proven to be a durable, strong armed guy that is NOT a fit for a West Coast offense and can not carry a team unless he's got some special talent around him and a very good ground game...which we don't have.

The offensive line is getting decimated. A Nick Mangold signing is a patchwork upgrade, but RT is now vacant and has James "the revolving door I got Joe Flacco's leg destroyed" Hurst and Alex "P. Keaton" Lewis as the top options. Looking at the FA class I don't see very many decent RT's. Most of the top names are LT's that probably would not slide over.

The defensive line is getting decimated. Micheal Pierce gives us hope, then there is Willie Henry and Carl Davis...two guys we haven't really seen much on the field. I think Poe would be a nice "take a chance" deal with who is actually stronger than Brandon Williams. When he is healthy he's a good player. Lawrence Guy was a dirty work player who is valuable and he's gone. Have to hope that guys like Brent Urban are ready to go.

The linebackers are getting decimated. Thought we had something in the middle with Mosley and Orr..until Orr had to retire. Not sold on Correa being the fix. Dumervil gone, Suggs old...and again Correa/Z. Smith don't exactly have me thinking we're well off. Matt Judon is the only shining star here so far.

CB are getting decimated. Once looking promising with the healthy Webb/Smith combo...injuries destroyed that. Haven't had anything really special since.

WR corps lacking. Have to bank on draft picks to actually do something now.

TE: Pitta takes pay cut or is gone, will become the #2 TE behind a healthy (hopefully) Maxx Williams. Watson gone, Crockett healthy? Nick needs to lay off the PEDS. Waller fits where? Is he our new crazy hybrid Juice replacement?

I mean everywhere you look on this roster there is massive turnover about to happen.

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7 minutes ago, K-Dog said:

I think we have more needs than opportunities to meet those needs this off season. 

 

It would take a perfect storm of drafting 2 studs in the top of the draft and getting 3 more starter quality players in the draft and some home runs on the free agency market. You know, taking a gamble on a vet and having them break out for us which has actually happened in the past. Then they all need to stay healthy.

Not impossible, but I won't be holding my breath.

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11 minutes ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

You can polish some bovine scat but it is still bovine scat.

I honestly can't think of a way you can sell this team with all these departures as a contender next season.

Yes, we still have Joe Flacco...and he's proven to be a durable, strong armed guy that is NOT a fit for a West Coast offense and can not carry a team unless he's got some special talent around him and a very good ground game...which we don't have.

The offensive line is getting decimated. A Nick Mangold signing is a patchwork upgrade, but RT is now vacant and has James "the revolving door I got Joe Flacco's leg destroyed" Hurst and Alex "P. Keaton" Lewis as the top options. Looking at the FA class I don't see very many decent RT's. Most of the top names are LT's that probably would not slide over.

The defensive line is getting decimated. Micheal Pierce gives us hope, then there is Willie Henry and Carl Davis...two guys we haven't really seen much on the field. I think Poe would be a nice "take a chance" deal with who is actually stronger than Brandon Williams. When he is healthy he's a good player. Lawrence Guy was a dirty work player who is valuable and he's gone. Have to hope that guys like Brent Urban are ready to go.

The linebackers are getting decimated. Thought we had something in the middle with Mosley and Orr..until Orr had to retire. Not sold on Correa being the fix. Dumervil gone, Suggs old...and again Correa/Z. Smith don't exactly have me thinking we're well off. Matt Judon is the only shining star here so far.

CB are getting decimated. Once looking promising with the healthy Webb/Smith combo...injuries destroyed that. Haven't had anything really special since.

WR corps lacking. Have to bank on draft picks to actually do something now.

TE: Pitta takes pay cut or is gone, will become the #2 TE behind a healthy (hopefully) Maxx Williams. Watson gone, Crockett healthy? Nick needs to lay off the PEDS. Waller fits where? Is he our new crazy hybrid Juice replacement?

I mean everywhere you look on this roster there is massive turnover about to happen.

3

and while this is happening Joe Flacco is the highest paid player in the NFL this year..

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You're pretty much always in the same place.  Draft and sign as best you can.  There's a salary minimum so it's hard to go full fire sale. 

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7 minutes ago, izvoodoo said:

You're pretty much always in the same place.  Draft and sign as best you can.  There's a salary minimum so it's hard to go full fire sale. 

Well, sometimes you are drafting for depth and looking for perhaps one starter and other times you are looking for the next corner stones of your organization.

One of them is Stanley hopefully. Now it starts on defense.

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Addition by subtraction. 

Cut:

Webb 

Lewis

Arrington

Wright 

Doom

Pitta

Watson

Sign:

Tony Jefferson

Calais Campbell 

Pierre Garcon 

Nick mangold

Don't re sign Williams or wagner, keep juice.

Draft in no particular order:

CB

Pass rusher

Guard/tackle depending on what you want to do with Lewis (use your 2 3rds to jump into the second again)

That's a better team. 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, arnie_uk said:

Addition by subtraction. 

Cut:

Webb 

Lewis

Arrington

Wright 

Doom

Pitta

Watson

Sign:

Tony Jefferson

Calais Campbell 

Pierre Garcon 

Nick mangold

Don't re sign Williams or wagner, keep juice.

Draft in no particular order:

CB

Pass rusher

Guard/tackle depending on what you want to do with Lewis (use your 2 3rds to jump into the second again)

That's a better team. 

 

 

Garcon and Juice went to the niners...

 

 

I hate to say it but we're screwed if we don't do anything. 

 

I'm just pissed now because we are prob gonna take Cam Robinson in round one.

 

Damnit Ozzie

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6 minutes ago, arnie_uk said:

Addition by subtraction. 

Cut:

Webb 

Lewis

Arrington

Wright 

Doom

Pitta

Watson

Sign:

Tony Jefferson

Calais Campbell 

Pierre Garcon 

Nick mangold

Don't re sign Williams or wagner, keep juice.

Draft in no particular order:

CB

Pass rusher

Guard/tackle depending on what you want to do with Lewis (use your 2 3rds to jump into the second again)

That's a better team. 

 

 

Tony Jefferson is being offered around $9-$10 million from the Browns who have money to burn. Now I know Jefferson should be telling himself that the Browns is where you go to commit career suicide, but money talks. No way the Ravens are close to that amount. Doubtful this happens. Plus he is more of a SS which means that Weddle moves over to FS? Not so sure that's a great combo.

Calais Campbell will get PAID. Again, this is a money issue.

Pierre Garcon is already signed?

Mangold has injury issues and would be a patch-work upgrade. No point in spending big money on him when the rest of the team will be crud.

Juice is gone, can't "keep" him.

Sure...draft a shut down corner, a premier pass rusher, a good starting NFL caliber G/T...all in one draft. Easy peezy.

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1 hour ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

This is a term Owner Steve Bisciotti hates to use and said that the Ravens would never be "rebuilding" because he wants a team that is consistently competitive and has a chance for the playoffs and better every season. To his credit under the Harbaugh era that has been true. The Ravens have tried to keep their core stars around and have had only two losing seasons under Harbaugh; and the first one you can toss out because of all of the disastrous injuries that swept through the roster.

But we're seeing key names and players leave due to market issues and the amount of money the Ravens are already paying others. Rick Wagner is gone, Juice is gone, I feel very strongly that Brandon Williams will be gone, Dumervil is gone, and Suggs will not be playing much longer. Add in Yanda not getting any younger and we have no wide receivers of much merit other than Mike Wallace who also might be cut. Webb may be gone, Jimmy Smith can't stay healthy, Lawrence Guy is gone, Zuttah is probably gone, and Dennis Pitta will either take a pay cut or simply be cut.

Time to go young with the draft and adopt a New England approach. They never sign the really high priced free agents to huge mega deals. But they also seem to have a coach and organization that while players may not always like it...they just win and winning is everything.

Harbaugh is very much a players' coach. He likes them to express themselves and be themselves. Bill Bilicheck for all you may hate him for does not play that. You either do it his way and you play, or you can get lost on the bench and cut.

It will depend on this draft class and the previous ones as to how well the Ravens can do until their next superstars emerge..if ever.

Your right, this team and organization is a mess. Unless we do something in free agency that could gives us some strength to this team, we are officially in rebuilding mode. 

 

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8 minutes ago, hen826957 said:

Your right, this team and organization is a mess. Unless we do something in free agency that could gives us some strength to this team, we are officially in rebuilding mode. 

 

 

yup...one other little note. Do you think the patriots would have kept a dud like elam for 4 years? nope.

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21 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

Garcon and Juice went to the niners...

 

 

 

We lost Juice ???

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa   :( 

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7 minutes ago, K-Dog said:

We lost Juice ???

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa   :( 

Yep it's true. 😔

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At this point we might have to just blow it up and look forward to 2018. We're looking at a sweet haul of comp picks next year, if we can do well in this draft, get rid of the bad contracts we have left (Webb + Pitta), develop our young talent this year (Dixon, Crockett, Maxx, Pierce, Davis, Correa, Kaufusi, Moore, Perriman + rookies), then reload in FA  and draft well again next year.. I could see us having a really solid squad in 2018.

 

It sucks but this year is already looking like a wash, we're an 8-8 team who has just lost 3 pro bowl caliber players, you do the math.

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I feel like we had that mentality after the SB win, and that really set us back and we've never properly rebuilt the team since. Even back then we should've been looking at how we were gonna rebuild the WR/DB/OL core to be younger but for 1-2 years we kept thinking we were just a piece or two from winning the SB again.

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Rebuilding? Technically yes, but whether we do a good job of it is yet to be determined.

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Think this team is tired of bad contracts. They were really close to the playoffs, Biscotti said he can handle missing playoffs to a certain degree but I don't think he expects a rebuild. He wants his team to be competitive and I think Tony Jefferson signing shows that.

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They look to be rebuilding this defense. They're additions have all been fiery scrappy players. Tony, Carrea, Judon, Young. This team lead by Weddle and temporarily Suggs will be all over the place. 

 

This offense though..... Because of Joe's demeanor, he either looks like a cerebral assassin, Or confused and lazy lol. There is no real inbetween and I'm curious how that reflects with his other guys.

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8 hours ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

Garcon and Juice went to the niners...

 

 

I hate to say it but we're screwed if we don't do anything. 

 

I'm just pissed now because we are prob gonna take Cam Robinson in round one.

 

Damnit Ozzie

 

8 hours ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

Tony Jefferson is being offered around $9-$10 million from the Browns who have money to burn. Now I know Jefferson should be telling himself that the Browns is where you go to commit career suicide, but money talks. No way the Ravens are close to that amount. Doubtful this happens. Plus he is more of a SS which means that Weddle moves over to FS? Not so sure that's a great combo.

Calais Campbell will get PAID. Again, this is a money issue.

Pierre Garcon is already signed?

Mangold has injury issues and would be a patch-work upgrade. No point in spending big money on him when the rest of the team will be crud.

Juice is gone, can't "keep" him.

Sure...draft a shut down corner, a premier pass rusher, a good starting NFL caliber G/T...all in one draft. Easy peezy.

This was my offseason plan. It's what I would have done. And could very easily have done with the cuts I made.

Edit except juice. You let him walk at that money 

Edited by arnie_uk
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We been rebuilding ever since we lost Ray Lewis and Ed Reed.

At least, we landed some key pieces with CJ Mosley and Eric Weddle.

We had the best shot to return to the Super Bowl in 2014 with Kubiak's offense until we got Belichicked like the Falcons.

We can't laugh at the Falcons when we threw away a 14 point lead.

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We got so many holes on our team. I feel it will take this year's and next year's draft to replenish the roster.

 

Losing Wagner, Juszczyk, and Williams are going to hurt.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Yatagarasu said:

We been rebuilding ever since we lost Ray Lewis and Ed Reed.

At least, we landed some key pieces with CJ Mosley and Eric Weddle.

We had the best shot to return to the Super Bowl in 2014 with Kubiak's offense until we got Belichicked like the Falcons.

We can't laugh at the Falcons when we threw away a 14 point lead.

At least it was on the road, we over achieved, and were basically starting a practice squad secondary at that point, and the patriots had the deceptive substitution BS in that game too. Falcons blown lead was way worse.

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I did not think the Ravens were going to be able to pull off the move for Tony Jefferson. Him coming to Baltimore is proof to me that he doesn't have a cinder block for a head. Sure he could have earned a lot more, but the Browns are a complete mess, have been for years, and probably aren't getting better any time soon. You can't build a team completely through free agency like the Redskins have tried to do for years. The Jefferson move solidifies one big weakness and that probably means Webb will be cut soon. Can't really think it is prudent to keep him at his salary, even if restructured, to be a back up.

Ravens also pick up Danny Woodhead...meh...I think he's a warm body until Ken Dixon comes back. What a stupid mistake. You'd think these guys would wake up and learn that if you cheat, you will get busted.

Ravens picked up the option on Wallace and didn't sign Smith, so there's the WR question answered. I still think they add a body or two after veteran cuts.

Still need some help at C and possibly RT and we need a starting corner badly. I think we're okay at DT with what we have in house and we need to find a starting edge rusher. I don't know if all they guys we need are in house already. In fact, at most of the positions I am sure that guy is not in house.

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And now they "rebuild" by signing their own free agent DT: Brandon Williams. I honestly didn't think this was going to happen and I am still in a mixed bag with the move.

The best interior lineman we had because he's steady. Timmy Jernigan is too inconsistent but if he ever turned it on for a full season I think he could be special. Pierce is a bit too young to know exactly what you've got there but he looks promising, and then Willie Henry and Carl Davis haven't been able to show much of anything yet.

Problem is that he is too one dimensional to be getting that kind of cash. He's not Ngata in his prime. Even Ngata would get to the QB more often and he engulfed other players. Williams does take double teams but he's not as dominant and he's not a good rusher. Kind of hard for a leopard to change it's spots now, but it would be nice if that part of his game emerged.

It is also a lot of money tied up in one position and the Ravens also plunked down $9mil/per for Jefferson. There are a lot of holes left to fill on this team:

C: Zuttah is serviceable at best right now and that is if he is healthy. Other options: John Urschel, Ryan Jensen, Matt Skura.

RT: Losing Wagner hurts quite a bit: In house options: Alex Lewis, Stephon Nembot, James Hurst (via the Ravens...they think he can be a good RT?)

RB: West isn't the answer and Dixon might be, but he just got popped. Woodhead is not the bell cow and Buck Allen and Lorenzo Taliafero still need to show up.

FB: I liked Juice, but he gone. Ravens don't really need to find another one and could just use a TE here.

WR: Retained Wallace, but the team is all speed burners now with no real tough over the middle possession guy.

OLB: Suggs is old, Dumervil gone (could be back?) and the slew of youngsters in behind them haven't shown much other than Matt Judon.

MLB: Losing Zach Orr was really tough and I don't think Correa is the answer.

CB: Jimmy is hurt annually now, nobody to line up across from him.

If the Ravens are going to get Claiborne and address other spots in free agency, there is a lot more house cleaning that will need to be done to free up the cash.

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4 hours ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

I did not think the Ravens were going to be able to pull off the move for Tony Jefferson. Him coming to Baltimore is proof to me that he doesn't have a cinder block for a head. Sure he could have earned a lot more, but the Browns are a complete mess, have been for years, and probably aren't getting better any time soon. You can't build a team completely through free agency like the Redskins have tried to do for years. The Jefferson move solidifies one big weakness and that probably means Webb will be cut soon. Can't really think it is prudent to keep him at his salary, even if restructured, to be a back up.

Ravens also pick up Danny Woodhead...meh...I think he's a warm body until Ken Dixon comes back. What a stupid mistake. You'd think these guys would wake up and learn that if you cheat, you will get busted.

Ravens picked up the option on Wallace and didn't sign Smith, so there's the WR question answered. I still think they add a body or two after veteran cuts.

Still need some help at C and possibly RT and we need a starting corner badly. I think we're okay at DT with what we have in house and we need to find a starting edge rusher. I don't know if all they guys we need are in house already. In fact, at most of the positions I am sure that guy is not in house.

Except the NFL by rule doesn't test for HGH and everyone in the league uses it. So there is that.

Edited by ravensnick
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6 minutes ago, ravensnick said:

Except the NFL by rule doesn't test for HGH and everyone in the league uses it. So there is that.

The reason why the NFL and MLB don't test for HGH is because in order to detect it you need to draw blood and that is something both unions will never agree to. And while to normal every day people like us with morals would look at my next statement and shake their heads, this is the thing: If they don't test for it it ain't cheatin'.

Steroid use in the US is illegal. But MLB's argument about it before the current rules were put in place was, and I am paraphrasing but this was actually their argument..."There is no rule in baseball prohibiting their use." I am assuming MLB thought that it being illegal nationally was enough to carry over to baseball but you know how loopholes go.

What I see a lot of these PED busts coming from is amphetamine use. Within the last decade or so a lot of high level athletes have come down with "social anxiety" for which they need a prescription which just so happens to use amphetamines...which is a banned substance in the NFL/MLB UNLESS you have a doctor's note stating you need the medication. This happened with Chris Davis of the Orioles a couple seasons ago. Which begs the question, if you don't have a prescription and a note for this drug, how exactly are you getting it?

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