[News] Late For Work 3/1: Top Questions For Three Franchise Legends Entering Free-Agent Pool

[BR News]

Does Darrelle Revis still have a desire to play? Will Adrian Peterson ultimately wind up back in Minnesota? Is Jamal Charles really over his injury issues? Eric Weddle congratulates Eric Berry on his record-setting safety contract. Ravens have four major tasks at combine.

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[RaRaRavens]

Ravens coach John Harbaugh said team has made "competitive" offer to right tackle Rick Wagner per Jamison Hensley.

It'd surprise me if he would take it, considering he already declined one offer.

[rmcjacket23]

Ravens coach John Harbaugh said team has made "competitive" offer to right tackle Rick Wagner per Jamison Hensley.

It'd surprise me if he would take it, considering he already declined one offer.

Yeah hard to tell without knowing what the offer actually was. We heard the same thing last year when negotiating with KO.

Harbaugh also said that he expects Mike Wallace to return, and that we are in negotiations to retain Mallett as the backup as well.

[Ravenous_Ravens]

Nothing out of the norm here. Offer contracts to the players that make sense to try and retain. Of course the players you want to retain are also a bit tempted to at the very least test the FA market and try to cash in.

Crazy thought. What if the Ravens ultimately cannot retain BW or Wagner. I know it sounds like a bad scenario but on the plus side there would be more cap to go around and address other concerns. Not my first choice, but should it come to pass (getting out bid essentially) there is a positive such a scenario.

[eze17]

Nothing out of the norm here. Offer contracts to the players that make sense to try and retain. Of course the players you want to retain are also a bit tempted to at the very least test the FA market and try to cash in.

Crazy thought. What if the Ravens ultimately cannot retain BW or Wagner. I know it sounds like a bad scenario but on the plus side there would be more cap to go around and address other concerns. Not my first choice, but should it come to pass (getting out bid essentially) there is a positive such a scenario.

Not so crazy. Very good possibility that the Raven's will lose both players to FA, although I expect both of them will get reasonable offers from B-more. (I think Juice stays, we are one of the few teams that still utilizes the FB position.) Interesting that DeSean Jackson's name was brought up towards the end...He's a reciever that I think would be a good fit in our offensive scheme. Not re-signing Williams and Wagner would leave us enough to give Jackson a nice paycheck. Given Ozzie's past history of picking up veteran WR's, could be a possible move.

[stuckonaboat13]

I'd take Charles on a little more than a Vet Minimum prove it deal. The others simply aren't worth it

[potomacpitbulls]

It would hurt, But I would be ok letting both Williams and Wagner walk. Only if we went after Hightower and House. Both of those guys fill bigger needs ML and DB. Pierce proved he could step up and we can find a RT in the draft. With Orr retiring and the fragility of Smith two W's for two H's is a better play.

[steelcityraven]

IDK what "competitive offer means.... I would love to hear some numbers but I guess it is simply a little bit of a waiting game. I think we could keep MW- BW -RW, Ducasse and KJ and still clear cap space by letting go of: Webb, Arrington, Guy, (Z Orrs contract and SSS contract need to be factored in) . Letting Pitta walk, letting Kamar, letting Elam go and KLewis and maybe even Dumervill, and Sharece Wright. (and possibly Zuttah, JPowers and JHurst)

[zing21042]

Nothing out of the norm here. Offer contracts to the players that make sense to try and retain. Of course the players you want to retain are also a bit tempted to at the very least test the FA market and try to cash in.

Crazy thought. What if the Ravens ultimately cannot retain BW or Wagner. I know it sounds like a bad scenario but on the plus side there would be more cap to go around and address other concerns. Not my first choice, but should it come to pass (getting out bid essentially) there is a positive such a scenario.

Ravenous,

I do not see how they can sign BW or Wagner. The $15 mil cap space right now does not include any future contracts with either player and both have played on miniscule contracts till now. Collectively they earned $3.5 mil last year. Next year, just one of them will get 3 times that value. Granted, the cap will expand just because it goes up every year. But it won't help that much; every other teams will increase as well.

If memory serves, Williams is part of a 3 man rotation that includes Pierce. The ravens will allow Williams to walk, move Pierce in to take his place then fill the rotation gap in the draft. That is a lock. Plan on both BW or Wagner leaving.

The ravens are fast becoming the farm club team of the NFL. We invest 4 years generating great rookies only to find we cannot afford to keep them so they move on to more lucrative contracts. Expect the same to happen this year.

We need to jettison the expensive players; generate a good and broad rookie class, then plan to have the money later to sign the good ones to long term deals.

The way our division is setting up, the Browns will have the money to hire anyone and everyone in FA. With the cap space they have ($100 mil+) they can easily afford to add a ton of quality FAs long before the draft. Expect that to happen. Last year was Hue Jackson's trial year to determine who he wanted to keep and who he wanted to pitch for this year. Now he knows what he has to work with. You can bet that the Brown's will be active in FA and are 1-2 years away of being a serious problem in our division.

JMHO

[BiggMack91]

imo let BW & RW go keep KJ (JUICE) and put a big contract in front of Dont’a Hightower we have Pierce to take over try to retain LG or pick up a cheap run stuffer or we could draft another and draft at least 2 CB and 1 FS within the first 4 rounds ,and as far as Nick Mangold if we could get him at a cheaper price then JZ I hope they do it he's an upgrade from JZ , just thinking Logan Ryan could also be available an we all know we are going to make cuts soon but just with the addition of Logan Ryan & Dont’a Hightower it would upgrade our defense to almost elite status and with the draft we could be a real contender next year and we could use our first round pick on offense to get a true #1 WR or another RT to replace RW but it all comes back to the coaches and yes its probably never going to happen but a man can dream right?

[dirtybird66]

i would hope they'd bring in another MINNESOTA player in QB SAM BRADFORD,if they decide not to keep him.

[omar586]

22 minutes ago, BiggMack91 said:

imo let BW & RW go keep KJ (JUICE) and put a big contract in front of Dont’a Hightower we have Pierce to take over try to retain LG or pick up a cheap run stuffer or we could draft another and draft at least 2 CB and 1 FS within the first 4 rounds ,and as far as Nick Mangold if we could get him at a cheaper price then JZ I hope they do it he's an upgrade from JZ , just thinking Logan Ryan could also be available an we all know we are going to make cuts soon but just with the addition of Logan Ryan & Dont’a Hightower it would upgrade our defense to almost elite status and with the draft we could be a real contender next year and we could use our first round pick on offense to get a true #1 WR or another RT to replace RW but it all comes back to the coaches and yes its probably never going to happen but a man can dream right?

ravens don't usually go crazy in FA, they usually wait for cuts and start scooping up players, Donta and ryan going to cost a lot, not seeing the ravens doing that. i can see them go after garcon, mangold, or even marshall if released.

[omar586]

honestly the QB's salary in the NFL have overbloated, they should lower it to $10-15 mil with incentives, it's crazy that player takes nice chunk of your salary cap.

[Tdot.to.Bmore]

It will be interesting to hear what the competitive offers were when the BW and RW sign somewhere else. I really hope we keep RW because we dont have the depth to replace him at the moment. It will be easier for us to lose BW then RW.

[steelcityraven]

Would love to see us bring in a veteran OL (Mangold, Zieiler, or Whitworth) to upgrade that area. Any of those three added to our existing OL would be sick and I like Zeitler the best of the bunch but would be really happy with any of them. I am just picturing an OL with ALewis, Yanda, Zuttah, Zeitler, Stanley.... and that would be impressive.

I am with everyone else and would love to see us land Dont'a Hightower... the two bamma products playing beside us in the middle of our defense would be sick... but not sure how realistic that is. If we cannot land hightower however, I would love to see us bring in Zach Brown. I think he is more realistic and his athleticism and speed would be the perfect compliment to CJ and Zach is good at taking TE's out of the game!

Finally there are some great CBs available in the FA market this year. (LRyan, Reevis, Brandon Carr, Dre Kirkpatrick, AJ Bouye, Prince Amukamara, Trumaine Johnson, Stephon Gilmore and Michah Hyde)

Some other intriguing FA's who could really help us:
(Damarcus Ware, Kevin Minter, Alshon, Garcon, Calias Campbell, Tony Jefferson, Tyrell Pryor, Jamal Charles, Lorenzo Alexander Robert Woods, DJ Swearinger, and Julius Peppers)

Basically what I am trying to say is that we need a lot of help... and while it is not realistic to sign everyone... signing 2 or 3 of these guys before the draft would really change the complexion of the draft for us.

Of course we hardly ever sign anyone in the 1st wave of FA but I do think this year has to be a little different. I expect to see us sign at least one or two players early (who we will be excited about)!

[rmcjacket23]

honestly the QB's salary in the NFL have overbloated, they should lower it to $10-15 mil with incentives, it's crazy that player takes nice chunk of your salary cap.

Supply and demand sets the prices.

32 NFL teams and there's MAYBE 20 competent QBs in the league. Would require gigantic collusion among all 32 NFL teams to drive the market of a position downward that much, or a gigantic infusion of quality talent so that the supply of good QBs exceeds the demand.

Neither is going to happen anytime soon. The collusion aspect specifically has too much risk for any individual team, as it only takes one team with a lot of money to spend to break the agreement and spend $20-25M on the best QB.

In the grand scheme of things, QB price tags are NOT what is stopping teams from being competitive for the most part. Its certainly not what's stopping the Ravens either.

[whobilly]

i would hope they'd bring in another MINNESOTA player in QB SAM BRADFORD,if they decide not to keep him.

Bradford? How about Ryan Fitzpatrick, EJ Manuel, or some other loser.

[whobilly]

IDK what "competitive offer means.... I would love to hear some numbers but I guess it is simply a little bit of a waiting game. I think we could keep MW- BW -RW, Ducasse and KJ and still clear cap space by letting go of: Webb, Arrington, Guy, (Z Orrs contract and SSS contract need to be factored in) . Letting Pitta walk, letting Kamar, letting Elam go and KLewis and maybe even Dumervill, and Sharece Wright. (and possibly Zuttah, JPowers and JHurst)

It doesn't matter what teams offer their UFA's. They will go to whatever team offers them the most money. Real simple.

[whobilly]

Ravens coach John Harbaugh said team has made "competitive" offer to right tackle Rick Wagner per Jamison Hensley.

It'd surprise me if he would take it, considering he already declined one offer.

UFA's go to the team that offers them the most money.

[b93333]

The Ravens have four of the first 100 picks... Ozzi needs to get all four right and to have his second and third round picks from last year prove they belong in the NFL. Hey... we can always hope can't we?

[eze17]

  1 hour ago, Ravenous_Ravens said:

Nothing out of the norm here. Offer contracts to the players that make sense to try and retain. Of course the players you want to retain are also a bit tempted to at the very least test the FA market and try to cash in.

Crazy thought. What if the Ravens ultimately cannot retain BW or Wagner. I know it sounds like a bad scenario but on the plus side there would be more cap to go around and address other concerns. Not my first choice, but should it come to pass (getting out bid essentially) there is a positive such a scenario.

Ravenous,

I do not see how they can sign BW or Wagner. The $15 mil cap space right now does not include any future contracts with either player and both have played on miniscule contracts till now. Collectively they earned $3.5 mil last year. Next year, just one of them will get 3 times that value. Granted, the cap will expand just because it goes up every year. But it won't help that much; every other teams will increase as well.

If memory serves, Williams is part of a 3 man rotation that includes Pierce. The ravens will allow Williams to walk, move Pierce in to take his place then fill the rotation gap in the draft. That is a lock. Plan on both BW or Wagner leaving.

The ravens are fast becoming the farm club team of the NFL. We invest 4 years generating great rookies only to find we cannot afford to keep them so they move on to more lucrative contracts. Expect the same to happen this year.

We need to jettison the expensive players; generate a good and broad rookie class, then plan to have the money later to sign the good ones to long term deals.

The way our division is setting up, the Browns will have the money to hire anyone and everyone in FA. With the cap space they have ($100 mil+) they can easily afford to add a ton of quality FAs long before the draft. Expect that to happen. Last year was Hue Jackson's trial year to determine who he wanted to keep and who he wanted to pitch for this year. Now he knows what he has to work with. You can bet that the Brown's will be active in FA and are 1-2 years away of being a serious problem in our division.

JMHO

O.K...post started out good, but then dived into insanity.

1: Raven's are not a farm club. Period. Anyone who thinks that they are not committed to winning is kidding them selves or delusional. We are fortunate to have an owner who want's to win championships, not just happy bragging that he owns an NFL team. Biscotti want's to win, Ozzie want's to win, Harbs want's to win. Just because we don't throw a lot of money away to retain good, but not exceptional, players does not make us a farm team. We do re-sign some of the talent we've developed, but I think the team is doing a good job with their decisions about re-signing players overall. FYI, the Pat's let a lot of big name home grown talent walk instead of paying them monster contracts...and they seem to be doing fine.

2: Yea, the Brownies have a lot of cash available for free agents...but they have for several years now, and don't spend it. What big name super star can you name who want's to go to Cleveland? Sure, you'll get paid, but what are your chances at getting a ring? Pretty sure slim to none. If you're a stud name player on the FA market, Cleveland is the first place you've crossed off your list. Unless your simply looking for the pay check, in which case you probably don't have the drive nor ambition to really make a difference anyways.

3: I like Hue Jackson. If given the chance, he possibly could turn things around. But given the Brownie's history, it's pretty likely that another losing season like last year and he get's the boot. He has no real QB. You can't win in the NFL without a real QB. It's that simple.

4: Cleveland is only 1-2 years away from being a contender? Serious? You're going to have to expound on that one, my friend. Give me more data and explanations into how a disfunctional team can go from having the worst record in the league, to becoming a team to be reckoned with...just because they have money to spend means absolutely nothing in the NFL...

[usmccharles]

39 minutes ago, omar586 said:

honestly the QB's salary in the NFL have overbloated, they should lower it to $10-15 mil with incentives, it's crazy that player takes nice chunk of your salary cap.

Like a position salary cap? 

27 minutes ago, steelcityraven said:

Finally there are some great CBs available in the FA market this year. (LRyan, Reevis, Brandon Carr, Dre Kirkpatrick, AJ Bouye, Prince Amukamara, Trumaine Johnson, Stephon Gilmore and Michah Hyde)

Some other intriguing FA's who could really help us:
(Damarcus Ware, Kevin Minter, Alshon, Garcon, Calias Campbell, Tony Jefferson, Tyrell Pryor, Jamal Charles, Lorenzo Alexander Robert Woods, DJ Swearinger, and Julius Peppers)

Revis- he has lost a step and hes going to need it as he is currently charged with four felonies and a misdemeanor.  Hes going to be suspended almost for sure. 

Trumaine Johnson - Not available

Alshon- I don't get the fascination with a injury rattled WR that's going to want 10mill a year

Campbell - I wouldn't mind it, but I would rather let Judon try to take over.  Besides I think Campbell will be in high demand, im predicting Denver since Ware is going to go. 

Pryor - upside is there, but so is his price tag.  I would be shocked if the Ravens ever pay a WR 10mill plus. 

Jamal Charles - I would sign him for the vet min and that's it.  8 games in two years with 400 yards.  His knees are done.  He is like a clone of Webb basically, just a RB needs to cut a lot more.  A team might hit the jackpot with him, I wouldn't want to risk it. 

23 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Supply and demand sets the prices.

I still don't get how people don't understand market value still.  I don't think people will ever stop complaining about how much a qb makes.

[eze17]

  1 hour ago, steelcityraven said:

IDK what "competitive offer means.... I would love to hear some numbers but I guess it is simply a little bit of a waiting game. I think we could keep MW- BW -RW, Ducasse and KJ and still clear cap space by letting go of: Webb, Arrington, Guy, (Z Orrs contract and SSS contract need to be factored in) . Letting Pitta walk, letting Kamar, letting Elam go and KLewis and maybe even Dumervill, and Sharece Wright. (and possibly Zuttah, JPowers and JHurst)

It doesn't matter what teams offer their UFA's. They will go to whatever team offers them the most money. Real simple.

No.Not that simple. If you had the choice to work for an employer who treated you like garbage and paid you 50$ an hour, or work for a boss who treated you as an equal but only paid 40$ an hour, who would you work for? It's the same in the NFL. Guys who are committed to winning go to teams that are committed to winning, guys who just want the pay check go wherever the moola is. Not everyone is a slave to the dollar, especially when you're a star player in professional sports and want that glory. Depends on the guy's mindset.

[rmcjacket23]

15 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Like a position salary cap? 

I still don't get how people don't understand market value still.  I don't think people will ever stop complaining about how much a qb makes.

1. Its no different than just about any market. Housing market is a perfect example. There's a going rate for houses in your area with similar fundamental characteristics, and then its just haggling over minor details of why one is better than another that is already at a set price.

2. If you want to go full blown domestic macro of the whole "salary cap" concept, its pretty literally the only situation like it in any industry. This is why I see literally no human being should ever compare the business structures of the NFL to any other job on the planet, because I don't see barely any other comparisons.

There are no industries I know where all of the companies in the industry collude to set a cap on how much that company spends on its employees. Corporations collude for various reasons in various different reasons, but I'm not aware of any where the collusion involves what to pay their own employees.

So in a sense, its pretty un-American overall, considering we are a capitalistic society, and its certainly even worse to suggest that they should go to restricting certain segments of the industry even more.

Not something to worry about though, because neither side of the aisle (players or owners) would want that, and it would certainly never be agreed to in collective bargaining.

[eze17]

  1 hour ago, omar586 said:

honestly the QB's salary in the NFL have overbloated, they should lower it to $10-15 mil with incentives, it's crazy that player takes nice chunk of your salary cap.

Supply and demand sets the prices.

32 NFL teams and there's MAYBE 20 competent QBs in the league. Would require gigantic collusion among all 32 NFL teams to drive the market of a position downward that much, or a gigantic infusion of quality talent so that the supply of good QBs exceeds the demand.

Neither is going to happen anytime soon. The collusion aspect specifically has too much risk for any individual team, as it only takes one team with a lot of money to spend to break the agreement and spend $20-25M on the best QB.

In the grand scheme of things, QB price tags are NOT what is stopping teams from being competitive for the most part. Its certainly not what's stopping the Ravens either.

Voice of reason in the wilderness...

[usmccharles]

3 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

1. Its no different than just about any market. Housing market is a perfect example. There's a going rate for houses in your area with similar fundamental characteristics, and then its just haggling over minor details of why one is better than another that is already at a set price.

2. If you want to go full blown domestic macro of the whole "salary cap" concept, its pretty literally the only situation like it in any industry. This is why I see literally no human being should ever compare the business structures of the NFL to any other job on the planet, because I don't see barely any other comparisons.

There are no industries I know where all of the companies in the industry collude to set a cap on how much that company spends on its employees. Corporations collude for various reasons in various different reasons, but I'm not aware of any where the collusion involves what to pay their own employees.

So in a sense, its pretty un-American overall, considering we are a capitalistic society, and its certainly even worse to suggest that they should go to restricting certain segments of the industry even more.

Not something to worry about though, because neither side of the aisle (players or owners) would want that, and it would certainly never be agreed to in collective bargaining.

Yep, exactly.  Usually when you graduate at the top of your class, lets say a lawyer in law school.  He/she gets to pick where they end up working. Now, Myles Garret has no control over that and is going to lovely Cleveland, Ohio.  Always found that kind of interesting. 

[rmcjacket23]

9 minutes ago, eze17 said:

No.Not that simple. If you had the choice to work for an employer who treated you like garbage and paid you 50$ an hour, or work for a boss who treated you as an equal but only paid 40$ an hour, who would you work for? It's the same in the NFL. Guys who are committed to winning go to teams that are committed to winning, guys who just want the pay check go wherever the moola is. Not everyone is a slave to the dollar, especially when you're a star player in professional sports and want that glory. Depends on the guy's mindset.

This depends on various situations.

When it comes to a player who is coming off a rookie deal and is about to get his first big "payday", its about the money almost exclusively. I would say its pretty rare for a player to take a significant discount to stay with a winning team when they haven't been getting paid that much. In your model, you're talking about making 25% more, and I feel certain that you'd have a hard time providing an example of a player coming off a rookie deal and looking for his first big payday who voluntarily took like 25% less to stay with a better team. In any case I'm aware of, that player will go where the money is, and specifically, go where the guaranteed money is. You may be able to find the occasional case where a player takes a minor "home town discount", but I would dare say its never in the 25% range. It would be closer to your analogy if a bad team was offering $50/hour, whereas the good team was offering like $45-48/hour. At $45/hour, he may stay. At $40/hour, he's probably going to leave, especially if he was previously getting paid like $10/hour.

Now if you want to talk about an aging veteran, who's already made good money and is looking to win towards the end of his career, then yes, where to play and how good that team is comes into play, among other factors.

We pretty much already know this is the case, because if players universally factored in "winning" or "franchise quality" as much as they factored in compensation, then about half the teams in the league would never be able to sign these FAs. There's a long list of teams who haven't won anything in decades and/or have organizational structures that aren't solid, and those teams still manage to get plenty of big-time, big-money FAs to come play with them.

I also don't think the organizational structure matters that much to an individual player, mostly because it has very little to do with them. Most owners don't meddle around with the players that much, and the players deal much more with coaches than they do Owners and FO personnel.

Edited March 1 by rmcjacket23

[rmcjacket23]

Just now, usmccharles said:

Yep, exactly.  Usually when you graduate at the top of your class, lets say a lawyer in law school.  He/she gets to pick where they end up working. Now, Myles Garret has no control over that and is going to lovely Cleveland, Ohio.  Always found that kind of interesting. 

Yup, good point. 

No industry I know where employees are drafted to their employer, and have no say on whether they work for them or not.

One of many things that differentiates professional sports in general from any other industry.

[PurpleHorseman]

2 hours ago, stuckonaboat13 said:

I'd take Charles on a little more than a Vet Minimum prove it deal. The others simply aren't worth it

At Charles' age and recent injuries. I would prefer Ken Dixon get that opportunity. Younger stronger and probably more explosive than Charles at this juncture of his career. Dixon needs to be given oppurtunities.

[usmccharles]

18 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Yup, good point. 

No industry I know where employees are drafted to their employer, and have no say on whether they work for them or not.

One of many things that differentiates professional sports in general from any other industry.

Also, to expand on that just a tad.  I always found it hypocritical that a college athlete cant make a single cent for his name while in college but yet a English Lit major could go write a book and become a millionaire while in school...