[News] Free Agency Primer: Ravens FB Kyle Juszczyk

[billiejean]

3 hours ago, OzzieBisciotti said:

Look, the kid is a nice guy and has an interesting name, but the fact is that he can't block- Vontae tried to teach him, but he just doesn't have it in him- although he might have been 'ranked' the #2 fullback in the league (out of 4 fullbacks in the NFL), there's a reason why we ranked 28th in the league for rushing- he's part of the blame.

Yea you can keep saying that over and over again, but saying he can't block is an extreme exaggeration for this season.  And again there is not doubt in my mind that you are basing your opinion on him based on just TWO plays.  But it seems you must know more than the pundits, coaches, and other players that have complimented him on his blocking.  If you can find an article online or anywhere that says Juice was a terrible blocker this year I would love to see it.  You are going to be looking for a while.  And again Im not saying the guys is Leach but saying he can't block is absurd, which is par for the course for you.  Now I know you remembered the two plays against the Pats and the Giants where Juice had bad plays, but if you are in fact basing you opinion on the guy based on the entirety of the season you should be able to name other instances when he screwed up.   am not saying there aren't other instances where he messed up but I don't think you would be able to name any of them off of the top of your head.  Which  would validate my theory that those two plays are all you remember of Juice this season. Lets see the video of all the other times he messed up.  Post a link, I would be interested in seeing it.

The other possibility is that you are basing your evaluation of Juices play on those two plays and his play from last season.  He did struggle last season in the blocking department.  Here is quote talking about just that.

"Juszczyk is the top-ranked fullback in the league, according to Pro Football Focus (PFF), with a plus-7.4 grade. Last year, Juszczyk had more yards (321) and scored four touchdowns, but he had negative blocking grades. This year, PFF rates him as the second-best blocker in the league behind the New England Patriots’ James Develin. Running back  Terrance West  has rushed for a career-high 729 yards and five touchdowns."

 

[billiejean]

10 hours ago, sizzlingdoom said:

Give me a break! The ratings of positions are lame and all over the place. Anyone that watched Ravens games knows he singled handily cost us games with miss blocks each week throughout the the year, Giants and Pats games are immediate standouts with serious game planning and blocking issues. And huge miscusses by JUICE. We're living in the past. It's like we're trying to coach offense as if it was the same 20 years ago. STRAIGHT. Embarrassing. Will STeve ever consider bringing in real coaches? It's nice Ray and Ed got you a SB, but retire John, PLEASE

Its clear that you think these "ratings" are randomly pulled out of someone back side.  You shouldn't be so quick to criticize something that you have very little knowledge of.  They are not all over the place but people tend to say that when there perception of a player does not match the ranking which they received.  And its abundantly clear why this happens.  It is because of guys like yourself that form their opinion on a player's performance for the entire season on two plays.  The link below goes into detail on how pff grades players.  The grade isn't based on two plays and it is not based on 50 plays it is based on every single play that a player is in the game.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/about/how-we-grade/

Now... I know you like repeating the narrative about the coaches, players, and FO as much as possible.  However, in this case it seems that you were so eager to repeat that that same old song and dance, that you didn't read my comment in its entirety.  I specifically mentioned both the Giants and the Pats game as games where he had a bad play.  I even posted video of those two instances.  Now, why did I do this? It is because guys like yourself are predictable.  And there was no doubt in my mind that you and others, were basing their opinions about Juices performance on those two plays.  And your mention of those plays supports that theory.  Juice is not Leach when it comes to blocking but he is not as awful as those two plays would suggest.  Below are the links that you failed to look at in your haste to reply to any and all posts with unbridled angst regardless of relevance to the topic..

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/videos/videos/NFLN-Dixon-Tackled-In-End-Zone-For-Pats-Safety/4580450e-fce6-44e4-9592-977005698c7a
To be fair in this play there was a communication breakdown on the Oline. Nobody blocked Malcolm Brown. And when Juice is 1 on 1 with a 320lb DT he is going to lose that battle every time.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000721943/Ravens-vs-Giants-highlights
at 5min 50sec

 

Edited February 26 by billiejean

[billiejean]

9 hours ago, sizzlingdoom said:

terribly, terribly overated player. I would hardly consider him an average player. If we retain him for anything more than 1 mil a year, we're in a worse state than I thought. He'll flee though, luckily perfect timing for us. We can't even keep our good players, cuz our Ravens contracts are terrible and embarrassing. But luckily in about 5 ways, it's perfect timing fro him to leave. NOT JOKING AT ALL, the only reason our fans are stoked at ALL that like him, is cuz they get to chat JUICE. SERIOUSLY. Our franchise is falling apart. We are either playing Brady in the championship next season, or WE ARE STARTING OVEr. ****

The only reason fans like Juice is because they get to yell Juice?  That is such a ridiculous statement.  You cant really believe that do you?  If you can find an article, interview, or report that is in agreement with your assessment of Juice performance this year I would love to see it.  And if you can't find anyone that agrees with you then you must believe that you know better than the pundits, coaches and players that have complimented him on his blocking THIS season.  And if you are basing your opinion of his performance on more than those two plays, name them.  Share a link.

[bigcatfrank1]

  12 hours ago, OzzieBisciotti said:

ravens will want to keep him for $1.1M- he can't block that well - definitely not like vontae did- that's why we finished 28th in the league last year in rushing. oz will probably overpay him bc some fans like him - even though he can't block even if he was behind the wheel of a semi truck

terribly, terribly overated player. I would hardly consider him an average player. If we retain him for anything more than 1 mil a year, we're in a worse state than I thought. He'll flee though, luckily perfect timing for us. We can't even keep our good players, cuz our Ravens contracts are terrible and embarrassing. But luckily in about 5 ways, it's perfect timing fro him to leave. NOT JOKING AT ALL, the only reason our fans are stoked at ALL that like him, is cuz they get to chat JUICE. SERIOUSLY. Our franchise is falling apart. We are either playing Brady in the championship next season, or WE ARE STARTING OVEr. ****

poor, poor opinion and basis.
The Ravens have under utilized the Fullback position primarily because they couldn't get to the second and third level play options.

"Juice" is a good player, better than many average TE and 2nd string running backs last year in the NFL. Making the pro-bowl and ratings by the NFL pundits helps but the key is to get him involved in 35-45% of the plays.
In order to do that the Ravens need running backs that can produce at a 40-50% play level. emphasis on "produce"

The issue is that the Ravens kept 3 TE that couldn't produce last year and a wasted RB spot on Allen.
Take Juice out of the equation, the RB's and TE's last year would not have improved.

So my opinion is to let Watson and Gilmore go.
Keep Juice, Waller, Pitta and Boyle- Max Williams on the bubble. and develop plays to utilize Juice as a quasi FB/TE/ Slant option type player especially of they do not pick up a veteran slot receiver.

The big move in my opinion has nothing to do with Juice staying. It is let Allen or West (or both go) and pick up a # 1 RB and use Dixon as a #2, then Juice becomes a major part of the running/option game.
The Ravens need a +1000yd, big play RB, unfortunately neither Allen or West could reach that level. Dont waste time or money on such important positions such as #1/#2 RB and then complain about a nominal cost supporting role of a multi position FB.

[bigcatfrank1]

Funny thing is there's like 20 teams with 30+ mil in cap space and not that many players worth overpaying. I wouldn't even be surprised if someone tossed him 5 or 6 mil.

Not going to happen,
If that were true that teams will throw 5-6 mil around for option RB/FB the Ravens should let Juice, Allen and West out. Then the Ravens should pay the bucks to pick up L. Murray.

Tandem Murray and Dixon now that is a backfield. I wouldn't care about Juice staying or leaving.

[OzzieBisciotti]

  12 hours ago, sizzlingdoom said:

  13 hours ago, OzzieBisciotti said:

ravens will want to keep him for $1.1M- he can't block that well - definitely not like vontae did- that's why we finished 28th in the league last year in rushing. oz will probably overpay him bc some fans like him - even though he can't block even if he was behind the wheel of a semi truck

terribly, terribly overated player. I would hardly consider him an average player. If we retain him for anything more than 1 mil a year, we're in a worse state than I thought. He'll flee though, luckily perfect timing for us. We can't even keep our good players, cuz our Ravens contracts are terrible and embarrassing. But luckily in about 5 ways, it's perfect timing fro him to leave. NOT JOKING AT ALL, the only reason our fans are stoked at ALL that like him, is cuz they get to chat JUICE. SERIOUSLY. Our franchise is falling apart. We are either playing Brady in the championship next season, or WE ARE STARTING OVEr. ****

poor, poor opinion and basis.
The Ravens have under utilized the Fullback position primarily because they couldn't get to the second and third level play options.

"Juice" is a good player, better than many average TE and 2nd string running backs last year in the NFL. Making the pro-bowl and ratings by the NFL pundits helps but the key is to get him involved in 35-45% of the plays.
In order to do that the Ravens need running backs that can produce at a 40-50% play level. emphasis on "produce"

The issue is that the Ravens kept 3 TE that couldn't produce last year and a wasted RB spot on Allen.
Take Juice out of the equation, the RB's and TE's last year would not have improved.

So my opinion is to let Watson and Gilmore go.
Keep Juice, Waller, Pitta and Boyle- Max Williams on the bubble. and develop plays to utilize Juice as a quasi FB/TE/ Slant option type player especially of they do not pick up a veteran slot receiver.

The big move in my opinion has nothing to do with Juice staying. It is let Allen or West (or both go) and pick up a # 1 RB and use Dixon as a #2, then Juice becomes a major part of the running/option game.
The Ravens need a +1000yd, big play RB, unfortunately neither Allen or West could reach that level. Dont waste time or money on such important positions such as #1/#2 RB and then complain about a nominal cost supporting role of a multi position FB.

"but the key is to get him (Juice) involved in 35-45% of the plays." Are you kidding me? You're making Juice to seem like he's Le'Veon Bell or Tyreek Hill - LOL.... this is Juice we're talking about- Come on man! You need to stop smoking Elam's stuff

[OzzieBisciotti]

  6 hours ago, OzzieBisciotti said:

Look, the kid is a nice guy and has an interesting name, but the fact is that he can't block- Vontae tried to teach him, but he just doesn't have it in him- although he might have been 'ranked' the #2 fullback in the league (out of 4 fullbacks in the NFL), there's a reason why we ranked 28th in the league for rushing- he's part of the blame.

Yea you can keep saying that over and over again, but saying he can't block is an extreme exaggeration for this season.  And again there is not doubt in my mind that you are basing your opinion on him based on just TWO plays.  But it seems you must know more than the pundits, coaches, and other players that have complimented him on his blocking.  If you can find an article online or anywhere that says Juice was a terrible blocker this year I would love to see it.  You are going to be looking for a while.  And again Im not saying the guys is Leach but saying he can't block is absurd, which is par for the course for you.  Now I know you remembered the two plays against the Pats and the Giants where Juice had bad plays, but if you are in fact basing you opinion on the guy based on the entirety of the season you should be able to name other instances when he screwed up.   am not saying there aren't other instances where he messed up but I don't think you would be able to name any of them off of the top of your head.  Which  would validate my theory that those two plays are all you remember of Juice this season. Lets see the video of all the other times he messed up.  Post a link, I would be interested in seeing it.

The other possibility is that you are basing your evaluation of Juices play on those two plays and his play from last season.  He did struggle last season in the blocking department.  Here is quote talking about just that.

"Juszczyk is the top-ranked fullback in the league, according to Pro Football Focus (PFF), with a plus-7.4 grade. Last year, Juszczyk had more yards (321) and scored four touchdowns, but he had negative blocking grades. This year, PFF rates him as the second-best blocker in the league behind the New England Patriots’ James Develin. Running back  Terrance West  has rushed for a career-high 729 yards and five touchdowns."

 

Juice can stay as long as we don't over pay him like we did Pitta bread- don't expect the 28th ranked defense to improve that much if he comes back.... he still can't block no matter what you say.. vontae leach's kid can block better than juice

[bigcatfrank1]

  1 hour ago, bigcatfrank1 said:

  12 hours ago, sizzlingdoom said:

  13 hours ago, OzzieBisciotti said:

ravens will want to keep him for $1.1M- he can't block that well - definitely not like vontae did- that's why we finished 28th in the league last year in rushing. oz will probably overpay him bc some fans like him - even though he can't block even if he was behind the wheel of a semi truck

terribly, terribly overated player. I would hardly consider him an average player. If we retain him for anything more than 1 mil a year, we're in a worse state than I thought. He'll flee though, luckily perfect timing for us. We can't even keep our good players, cuz our Ravens contracts are terrible and embarrassing. But luckily in about 5 ways, it's perfect timing fro him to leave. NOT JOKING AT ALL, the only reason our fans are stoked at ALL that like him, is cuz they get to chat JUICE. SERIOUSLY. Our franchise is falling apart. We are either playing Brady in the championship next season, or WE ARE STARTING OVEr. ****

poor, poor opinion and basis.
The Ravens have under utilized the Fullback position primarily because they couldn't get to the second and third level play options.

"Juice" is a good player, better than many average TE and 2nd string running backs last year in the NFL. Making the pro-bowl and ratings by the NFL pundits helps but the key is to get him involved in 35-45% of the plays.
In order to do that the Ravens need running backs that can produce at a 40-50% play level. emphasis on "produce"

The issue is that the Ravens kept 3 TE that couldn't produce last year and a wasted RB spot on Allen.
Take Juice out of the equation, the RB's and TE's last year would not have improved.

So my opinion is to let Watson and Gilmore go.
Keep Juice, Waller, Pitta and Boyle- Max Williams on the bubble. and develop plays to utilize Juice as a quasi FB/TE/ Slant option type player especially of they do not pick up a veteran slot receiver.

The big move in my opinion has nothing to do with Juice staying. It is let Allen or West (or both go) and pick up a # 1 RB and use Dixon as a #2, then Juice becomes a major part of the running/option game.
The Ravens need a +1000yd, big play RB, unfortunately neither Allen or West could reach that level. Dont waste time or money on such important positions such as #1/#2 RB and then complain about a nominal cost supporting role of a multi position FB.

"but the key is to get him (Juice) involved in 35-45% of the plays." Are you kidding me? You're making Juice to seem like he's Le'Veon Bell or Tyreek Hill - LOL.... this is Juice we're talking about- Come on man! You need to stop smoking Elam's stuff

Actually, if there are 60 offensive plays 35% would be 21 plays a game. Since we could figure 10 would be pass plays and the other 11 running. He easily could be involved in that, not saying he would get the ball 20 times a game his targets/options could be about 6-10 leaving 10-14 for blocking, lead rush FB, and option deception.
About the Same as TE per game if the Ravens continue with 3-4 TE on the team. Not sure what surprises you so much, obviously 45% (around 26 offensive plays) is the most anyone would even consider.
Heck he had that many in the Pro-bowl game.

[billiejean]

12 minutes ago, OzzieBisciotti said:

Juice can stay as long as we don't overpay him like we did Pitta bread- don't expect the 28th ranked defense to improve that much if he comes back.... he still can't block no matter what you say.. vontae leach's kid can block better than juice

Its not what I say, It is what everybody else says besides you and a few others in this forum.  Have you found any articles that share your opinion on Juice this season? At some point you have to ask yourself if you really believe that you are more adept at evaluating players than coaches players and pundits.  Once you answer that question honestly I think you may come to realize that you dont really know as much about football as you think you do.  And by acknowledging this you could actually try to learn something about the game.  Instead of blindly repeating the same things over and over again.  I do agree with that we shouldn't overpay for the guy and really I wouldn't be really upset if he left.  I am not debating whether I think he should stay or go.  I am disputing your notion that Juice is a terrible blocker.  And I would be happy to concede defeat if you find an article or interview (or even a blog) that shares your thoughts.

[JimmyBlack]

Pay Juice around $2 million a year and sign him for 3 years.

[kevraves]

yup@jimmyblack...thats a good deal...remember the effort on that run in the last minutes of the Pitt game...he's better than our 3rd RB or at least more durable...we could get a through a game at RB if west or dixon went down. I would dare say he could spell the no.1 RB if we needed him to.