[News] Late For Work 2/21: Is WR Pierre Garcon's Subtle Message Good News For Ravens?

[rmcjacket23]

  44 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

  4 hours ago, Bat-mite said:

SSS should get a prize for "Most Willpower."

Flacco needs to do a Brady deal and restructure his contract to put more money into keeping him safe in the pocket.

Won't happen. 

If Joe keeps playing like he has do you really want to extend him beyond the two years?

Well, we wouldn't be extending him, since he's already under contract through 2021.

So in short, yes. If he played like he did last year, I see no reason to move on from him. If fans actually took the time to look around the league (and specifically the College game) and look at the alternatives, it would scare people into loving Flacco.

Its that bad. I mean you don't really think teams think that guys like Bradford and Osweiler are really good QBs do you? They just know what the alternative is.

Or just pick any franchise that hasn't had a respectable QB in over a decade what they think. The old "o just go get somebody in the draft or FA mantra" doesn't seem to be quite so simple then...

[rmcjacket23]

WOW just think, we could have a 8 and 8 "at best" QB with the higest cap?? I would love to see "old 3 and out Flacco" kicked out on his butt but until that time comes make him rework his contract for cap space. Brady does it all the time so the TEAM has money for player to get to more Super Bowls. With "old 3 and out Flacco" the only bowls we will see are the toilet bowls.
Who ever wrote " hes a RAVENS QB.. plays like us.. he defines RAVENS as a QB" needs a lot of time on the couch talking to a head guy.
"Old 3 and out Flacco" makes me want Trent Dilfer back.

Ironic timing, given that Tom made $28.7M in 2016. Restructuring your contract into bonuses every year is great and cute and all, but that credit card bill doesn't just go away when he goes away.

[Halshayeji]

5 hours ago, ibleedpurpleandblack said:

 

What's your feelings on the $9million Webb received?  Do you think he was worth the $9mill for 1 interception this past year??  What about the $7.5 million he's due to get in 2017? 

That 9 was too much but mostly it was because of the restructure a year prior, il gladly take him if he takes a paycut and add a year. 5.5 mil seems fair.

[Halshayeji]

40 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Well, we wouldn't be extending him, since he's already under contract through 2021.

So in short, yes. If he played like he did last year, I see no reason to move on from him. If fans actually took the time to look around the league (and specifically the College game) and look at the alternatives, it would scare people into loving Flacco.

Its that bad. I mean you don't really think teams think that guys like Bradford and Osweiler are really good QBs do you? They just know what the alternative is.

Or just pick any franchise that hasn't had a respectable QB in over a decade what they think. The old "o just go get somebody in the draft or FA mantra" doesn't seem to be quite so simple then...

No! I refuse to even think that Flacco would have another season like last season. Flacco may never be a top 5 QB but he was regularly top 10-15 and caught fire in the playoffs. theres no way Flacco has another down year like last. He'll show up and his value will seem just fine.

[Halshayeji]

I was hoping the Ravens give SSS a call around the bye week and try to convince him to have one last run. Learning he's tuning down workouts is killing my dream lol

If you ever see this SSS get off your butt and be ready coz teams will come calling late in the season! Ditch them and come back to Bmore

[Crusader]

  55 minutes ago, Crusader said:

  1 hour ago, ellicottraven said:

  4 hours ago, Bat-mite said:

SSS should get a prize for "Most Willpower."

Flacco needs to do a Brady deal and restructure his contract to put more money into keeping him safe in the pocket.

Won't happen. 

If Joe keeps playing like he has do you really want to extend him beyond the two years?

Well, we wouldn't be extending him, since he's already under contract through 2021.

So in short, yes. If he played like he did last year, I see no reason to move on from him. If fans actually took the time to look around the league (and specifically the College game) and look at the alternatives, it would scare people into loving Flacco.

Its that bad. I mean you don't really think teams think that guys like Bradford and Osweiler are really good QBs do you? They just know what the alternative is.

Or just pick any franchise that hasn't had a respectable QB in over a decade what they think. The old "o just go get somebody in the draft or FA mantra" doesn't seem to be quite so simple then...

I can only look at facts and one glaring change in the Ravens Record the last 8 years is that contract. Right or wrong its hampers the team from winning and neglects the other two phases of the game.

[The Beak]

Joe's contract has always been a sore spot to SOME fans , but not me, do I wish it could have been a smaller number, for cap reasons yes, but Joe is better than what any other QB we could get at this point, Those who think Joe is not the answer, look at- Philly, Washington, Minnesota, Chicago, San Fran, Rams, Arizona, Miami, Buffalo, Jets, Jax, Houston, Cleveland, Bengals, Denver, KC, San Diego.. Now tell me do you really want to get rid of Joe? I would like to Draft a QB, but this team needs a lot of youth in other areas first.

[mendii]

Joe's contract has always been a sore spot to SOME fans , but not me, do I wish it could have been a smaller number, for cap reasons yes, but Joe is better than what any other QB we could get at this point, Those who think Joe is not the answer, look at- Philly, Washington, Minnesota, Chicago, San Fran, Rams, Arizona, Miami, Buffalo, Jets, Jax, Houston, Cleveland, Bengals, Denver, KC, San Diego.. Now tell me do you really want to get rid of Joe? I would like to Draft a QB, but this team needs a lot of youth in other areas first.

Come ask me to compare Joe to all those other teams QBs this time next year. Another season of sub-mediocrity and I'm selling my Flacco jersey. As of right now... I'd take Tannehill, Dalton, Alex Smith, or Philip Rivers. I'm even tempted to look at young guys like Wentz, and I'm also a huge UCF homer... so maybe Blake Bortles can turn it around?

[Shaky End of the Quarter]

Joe's contract has always been a sore spot to SOME fans , but not me, do I wish it could have been a smaller number, for cap reasons yes, but Joe is better than what any other QB we could get at this point, Those who think Joe is not the answer, look at- Philly, Washington, Minnesota, Chicago, San Fran, Rams, Arizona, Miami, Buffalo, Jets, Jax, Houston, Cleveland, Bengals, Denver, KC, San Diego.. Now tell me do you really want to get rid of Joe? I would like to Draft a QB, but this team needs a lot of youth in other areas first.

You forgot to mention Seattle. Wilson is garbage but at least he shows some emotion.

[rmcjacket23]

11 hours ago, Crusader said:

I can only look at facts and one glaring change in the Ravens Record the last 8 years is that contract. Right or wrong its hampers the team from winning and neglects the other two phases of the game.

Among many other glaring changes. Its only been 4 seasons since Joe got that big contract anyway. We had no problem winning when he was on his rookie deal, and its debatable since.

2013 he had a very, very small cap number of $6.8M, so we should have won then too if the logic is that his cap number dictates whether we win or lose. We weren't very good that season.

Then, in 2014, his cap number rises to almost $15M, which was a career high for him at that point, and we're merely minutes from an AFC title game that season.

I could make a long list of players over the last four years whose contracts have hampered this team. Ray Rice would certainly be the main culprit in my eyes, as would guys like Pitta, Monroe, etc.

By far the biggest glaring change in the Ravens success in recent years has far less to do with cap management or bad contracts, and far more to do with unsuccessful draft picks in the earlier rounds.

The reality of the NFL is that its virtually impossible for a single contract to kill an NFL's teams chances of success, regardless of production. There's just too many examples of teams fielding quality rosters with large salary cap hits from players not producing or not playing at all.

The Cowboys had a QB taking up $21M in cap space in 2016 (13% of total team cap spending) and he didn't play for them. Did they have a bad year?

The Falcons had $25.8M in dead money cap spending in 2016 (17% of total team cap spending) on players who didn't play for them. Did they have a bad year?

 

[SuperBowlDreamin]

Joe's contract has always been a sore spot to SOME fans , but not me, do I wish it could have been a smaller number, for cap reasons yes, but Joe is better than what any other QB we could get at this point, Those who think Joe is not the answer, look at- Philly, Washington, Minnesota, Chicago, San Fran, Rams, Arizona, Miami, Buffalo, Jets, Jax, Houston, Cleveland, Bengals, Denver, KC, San Diego.. Now tell me do you really want to get rid of Joe? I would like to Draft a QB, but this team needs a lot of youth in other areas first.

Look, the best way to really see where your QB stands as far as his play now and in the future is to ask yourself honestly if you were a fan of that other team, "Would you trade "x" for Joe Flacco? I think some of the answers would have more to do with the future than how good they are now. Phily fans wouldn't take Flacco over Carson Wentz because they think he is going to get better and better. But, cmon, didn't we think Joe was going to get better and better after the Super Bowl win? There are QBs that have been better than Joe but we wouldn't take them now, because they are over the hill or getting closer, such as Brees and Rivers. And, then there are some that are toss-ups. Would Baltimore rather have Dalton? Probably not. Would Cinci rather have Flacco? Probably not. We have a mid-tier QB, capable of winning and that is better than not having a QB at all. Finally, I have to agree with RMCJacket, with a Salary Cap and the trend of paying QBs the way they are paid, the difference between the top of the QB pay scale and the middle range is one good non-QB player's contract. One player can make a difference, but most times, it is still all a crapshoot. I just wish we had re-signed Corey Graham back in 2012. We are still just short good cornerbacks.

[ellicottraven]

4 hours ago, Crusader said:

If Joe keeps playing like he has do you really want to extend him beyond the two years?

It doesn't matter what I want or you want or for that matter anybody other than Steve Bisciotti wants. A lot of money's been invested into this chap and I mean a LOT. He's been extended through 2021. Unless all his guaranteed money is fully exhausted and the cap hit of releasing or trading him doesn't impact the rest of the team adversely, he isn't going anywhere. Doesn't make sense financially speaking. Decisions like these have a lasting impact on a franchise. You can't wish it awsy. Only thing we can do is support the team and give Flacco every tool possible. A strong O-line, a great run game, great receivers and great coordinating and not to mention a quarterback coach that can continue to be in Flacco's ears about his decision making and mechanics. Providing him all the above will help Flacco be successful.

Edited February 22 by ellicottraven

[bigcatfrank1]

Garcon would be a good addition, the question is will he take less than 8 mil and be satisfied with less than 60 passes? Most would say the Ravens passed the ball too much last year. The Running game needs to improve and take on a balanced show. I dont think that plays well into Garcon's thinking, especially with Wallace and Perriman. Now if Wallace is let loose, then Garcon makes better sense, the problem is it costs the Ravens more money for almost the same result.

Cruz is actually more attractive because he poses no threat to Wallace or Perriman. He is strictly a slot receiver and could be paid to do so.

lol, isnt it ridiculous that the highest cap QB in the league didnt even play last year. Yet there are complaints about Joe who played all season recovering from injury, passed for more yards in his career, had his #1 receiver hurt, had 3 of his offensive linemen hurt, used a Rookie RB and a comeback RB after the team fired the #1 Running back and Led his team back to an 8-8 season. (which should have easily been 10-6 no fault to Flacco)
I find it laughable that anyone can use the name Romo in the same league, let alone to earn cap at the same amount of money.

however, as I always say- The high paid players must play to high level. I would point out quite a few more Ravens than Joe, but Joe is included in the category. i expect to see a better year from Joe in 2017, admittedly there is room for improvement.

PS, wait until Matt Ryan and Andrew Luck contracts get negotiated.

[purpledown]

The Ravens cant afford Garcon, but he would be the perfect pickup. The Ravens will have to settle for somebody like Britt or Vincent Jackson. Guys whose best years are over, just like in past years.

[purpledown]

No real comment on Flacco he is the reason this franchise is so cap strapped, oops i just commented,lol.

[jravens1313]

The day that this franchise became about Flacco was the day it became a losing franchise.

[Ravenous_Ravens]

I actually love the fact that this was brought up. Nothing like lighting a fire to motivate Flacco to have a much better season at those numbers. No injury to work off this season so no excuses to not hit the ground running.

[sizzlingdoom]

  11 hours ago, Chuckx999 said:

WOW just think, we could have a 8 and 8 "at best" QB with the higest cap?? I would love to see "old 3 and out Flacco" kicked out on his butt but until that time comes make him rework his contract for cap space. Brady does it all the time so the TEAM has money for player to get to more Super Bowls. With "old 3 and out Flacco" the only bowls we will see are the toilet bowls.
Who ever wrote " hes a RAVENS QB.. plays like us.. he defines RAVENS as a QB" needs a lot of time on the couch talking to a head guy.
"Old 3 and out Flacco" makes me want Trent Dilfer back.

Ironic timing, given that Tom made $28.7M in 2016. Restructuring your contract into bonuses every year is great and cute and all, but that credit card bill doesn't just go away when he goes away.

Brady's cap hit was even 14??

[sizzlingdoom]

  15 hours ago, RaRaRavens said:

I can not believe all the hate you are getting. I seriously do not comprehend how people can even defend Flacco's contract in this situation.

Yes, he was signed after a SB run for the ages. But Oz himself has said that in this league you get paid based on "what have you done for me lately". Well, FACT is that lately Flacco has been among the bottom 10 of QB and FACT is that Flacco is getting like he is the #1 QB in the NFL.

I just honestly do not understand how so many people can seriously believe that Flacco's salary is fair and fit considering his playing level.

Does it matter if its "fair and fit"?

 

You must be really close with Joe....

[sizzlingdoom]

  15 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

  15 hours ago, RaRaRavens said:

I can not believe all the hate you are getting. I seriously do not comprehend how people can even defend Flacco's contract in this situation.

Yes, he was signed after a SB run for the ages. But Oz himself has said that in this league you get paid based on "what have you done for me lately". Well, FACT is that lately Flacco has been among the bottom 10 of QB and FACT is that Flacco is getting like he is the #1 QB in the NFL.

I just honestly do not understand how so many people can seriously believe that Flacco's salary is fair and fit considering his playing level.

Does it matter if its "fair and fit"?

 

You must be really close with Joe....

and that was directed at rmcjacket 23

[RaRaRavens]

17 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Why do I care if they get paid $24M (which Joe's not getting paid by the way, so no idea where you came up with that number) (hint: cap hit and what they actually get paid aren't the same thing)? 

What if they get paid $18M a year? Surely you would agree that $18M a year for literally any NFL player is a very large financial commitment? That's over 10% of a teams total spending ability on a single player.

So $18M for a 37 year old QB who's about as fragile as it gets is all of the sudden considered "no interest from teams", but $22M for a QB 6 years younger and actually plays in games is somehow a franchise crushing payout? LOL, what planet do you guys live on?

Heck, I'd say any dollar amount greater than $15M and I'd rather have Joe than either one of those guys. Or a 34 year old who's literally the most erratic QB in the league?

According to the OP, Joe would have "zero interest" in the FA market two years from now if he continues to play the way he has. So wouldn't that stand to reason that Cutler and Romo should also have "zero interest" in FA this year? They're older, and either just as erratic and inconsistent or can't even stay on the field... AND they don't have any of the playoff experience or individual and team success in it.

 

It does not matter what Flacco receives on his bank account at the end of the day, it matters what his contract costs for the team's cap space. That will be $24,550,000, i.e. if Flacco is on the team in 2017, 24,55M of our cap space will be used up by Flaccos contract.

And just to prevent you from distorting facts, yes it is true that Flacco's base salary for 2017 is $6,000,000, which you were probably referring to. But cap hit does not equal base salary. Cap hit=base salary + prorated amounts of salary + any bonuses a player might be entitled to under his contract (roster, workout, etc.). Flaccos enormous cap hit comes from the prorated amount which is $18,550,000. This too counts against the team's salary cap. Thus, his cap hit in 2017 is 24,55M. 

I don't know why did you even bring up the amount that he'll actually earn (hint: what player earns and cap hit aren't the same thing).

 

The rest of your comment did not make any sense whatsoever so I don't even know how to reply.

Edited February 22 by RaRaRavens
Grammar

[sizzlingdoom]

  16 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Why do I care if they get paid $24M (which Joe's not getting paid by the way, so no idea where you came up with that number) (hint: cap hit and what they actually get paid aren't the same thing)? 

What if they get paid $18M a year? Surely you would agree that $18M a year for literally any NFL player is a very large financial commitment? That's over 10% of a teams total spending ability on a single player.

So $18M for a 37 year old QB who's about as fragile as it gets is all of the sudden considered "no interest from teams", but $22M for a QB 6 years younger and actually plays in games is somehow a franchise crushing payout? LOL, what planet do you guys live on?

Heck, I'd say any dollar amount greater than $15M and I'd rather have Joe than either one of those guys. Or a 34 year old who's literally the most erratic QB in the league?

According to the OP, Joe would have "zero interest" in the FA market two years from now if he continues to play the way he has. So wouldn't that stand to reason that Cutler and Romo should also have "zero interest" in FA this year? They're older, and either just as erratic and inconsistent or can't even stay on the field... AND they don't have any of the playoff experience or individual and team success in it.

 

It does not matter what Flacco receives on his bank account at the end of the day, it matters what his contract costs for the team's cap space. That will be $24,550,000, i.e. if Flacco is on the team in 2017, 24,55M of our cap space will be used up by Flaccos contract.

And just to prevent you from distorting facts, yes it is true that Flacco's base salary for 2017 is $6,000,000, which you were probably referring to. But cap hit does not equal base salary. Cap hit=base salary + prorated amounts of salary + any bonuses a player might be entitled to under his contract (roster, workout, etc.). Flaccos enormous cap hit comes from the prorated amount which is $18,550,000. This too counts against the team's salary cap. Thus, his cap hit in 2017 is 24,44M. 

I don't know why did you even bring up the amount that he'll actually earn (hint: what player earns and cap hit aren't the same thing.

 

The rest of your comment did not make any sense whatsoever so I don't even know how to reply.

He must be one of the advisors that created Flacco's contract and can't help but defend it. Again, entertaining. lol

[RaRaRavens]

17 hours ago, whobilly said:

So what were are other options at QB when the confetti was dropping down on the field in New Orleans?

That is actually a fair question.

The FO had basically 2 options, both of which had risks:

OPTION 1: Sign Flacco to a hefty contract, hoping he will be able to pick up where he left off in his playoff run and carry this team pretty much on his own. Risk being that Flacco fails to live up to the expectations and ties up much needed part of the cap space.

OPTION 2: Refuse to pay Flacco the top dollar and let him walk, hoping you can find an effective replacement for him, but at least keeping the rest of the team balanced. Risk being that Flacco keeps playing on high level somewhere else and completely justifies his big payday, while we struggle to find true franchise QB.

Of course everyone is smarter in hindsight. And I'm sure FO did what they thought was the smartest decision at the time. I'm not blaming anyone for the decision to resign Flacco, never have, though I'd love to know more about the thought process that went into the decision. I respect the decision, even though it didn't turn out as hoped. Now we just need to figure out how to be successful in spite of the difficult position where this decision put us.

However, it irritates me when people act like Flacco (or his contract) is not the reason, why we are in this difficult position in the first place. There are other factors as well, of course, but Flacco and his cap hit are the biggest ones! We would probably be doing MUCH better, if Flacco were to play as was hoped when he got resigned. But he is not playing well at all. He needs serious help to play well. We can not afford help, because we do not have the money, big reason for that is Flacco's salary. 

Edited February 22 by RaRaRavens
Grammar

[rmcjacket23]

5 hours ago, sizzlingdoom said:

Brady's cap hit was even 14??

Yes it was. So when you get paid 28, and you're cap hit is 14, what do you think is going to happen in future years?

Do you think that difference is just going to disappear?

[rmcjacket23]

5 hours ago, sizzlingdoom said:

You must be really close with Joe....

Or I just have common sense and am educated on the subject matter.

[ibleedpurpleandblack]

  21 hours ago, whobilly said:

So what were are other options at QB when the confetti was dropping down on the field in New Orleans?

That is actually a fair question.

The FO had basically 2 options, both of which had risks:

OPTION 1: Sign Flacco to a hefty contract, hoping he will be able to pick up where he left off in his playoff run and carry this team pretty much on his own. Risk being that Flacco fails to live up to the expectations and ties up much needed part of the cap space.

OPTION 2: Refuse to pay Flacco the top dollar and let him walk, hoping you can find and effective replacement for him, in the meantime keeping the rest of the team balanced. Risk being that Flacco keeps playing on high level somewhere else and completely justifies his big payday, while we struggle to find true franchise QB.

Of course everyone is smarter in hindsight. And I'm sure FO did what they thought was the smartest decision at the time. I'm not blaming anyone for the decision to resign Flacco, never have, though I'd love to know more about the thought process that went into the decision. I respect the decision, albeit as it turned out it wasn't the best one. However, it irritates me when people act like Flacco's contract is not the problem. It is very big part of the problem! I would not be, if he were to play as was hoped under option 1 described above. But he is not playing well enough. He needs serious help to play well. We can not afford help, because we do not have the money, big reason for that is Flacco's salary. 

It's more than just hindsight here with Flacco and his salary.

First, people are forgetting that two very important things happened that altered the success of the Ravens the following year. (1) Ray Rice was expelled from the league - we lost our pro-bowl caliber RB so there went our run game that we were so dependent on the previous year and (2) Boldin was offered a contract according to the value the Ravens deemed he deserved, as such he refused and ultimately was traded. Then (3) Pitta went out with a broken hip. So while we want to say Flacco hasn't lived up to his contract the truth of the matter the entire team failed to live up to their expectations.

I really wish people would stop with the Flacco bs; In 2014 Ngata's cap hit was $14 million - did he produce at $14 million - NO!!!! Is that Flacco's fault, NO!!! IN 2015 Ngata's cap hit was $7.5 million and he was playing for Detroit!!!! Flacco's fault, NOPE!!

IN 2014 Ray Rice's Cap hit was $6 million and in 2015 his cap hit was $9 million - paid him $15 million to not even play!!!! Is that Flacco's fault, NO!!!!

There is so much more going on with this team than just Flacco and his contract.

[rmcjacket23]

4 hours ago, RaRaRavens said:

That is actually a fair question.

The FO had basically 2 options, both of which had risks:

OPTION 1: Sign Flacco to a hefty contract, hoping he will be able to pick up where he left off in his playoff run and carry this team pretty much on his own. Risk being that Flacco fails to live up to the expectations and ties up much needed part of the cap space.

OPTION 2: Refuse to pay Flacco the top dollar and let him walk, hoping you can find an effective replacement for him, but at least keeping the rest of the team balanced. Risk being that Flacco keeps playing on high level somewhere else and completely justifies his big payday, while we struggle to find true franchise QB.

Of course everyone is smarter in hindsight. And I'm sure FO did what they thought was the smartest decision at the time. I'm not blaming anyone for the decision to resign Flacco, never have, though I'd love to know more about the thought process that went into the decision. I respect the decision, even though it didn't turn out as hoped. Now we just need to figure out how to be successful in spite of the difficult position where this decision put us.

However, it irritates me when people act like Flacco (or his contract) is not the reason, why we are in this difficult position in the first place. There are other factors as well, of course, but Flacco and his cap hit are the biggest ones! We would probably be doing MUCH better, if Flacco were to play as was hoped when he got resigned. But he is not playing well at all. He needs serious help to play well. We can not afford help, because we do not have the money, big reason for that is Flacco's salary. 

But its kind of hard to argue that Flacco's cap hit is the biggest problem, when his cap hit from 2013-2015 was less than $15M each and every year.

There's simply no argument that a QB of his caliber playing on a $15M cap hit is stopping the team from doing anything. 

Plus, obviously, you don't need money to get help. I haven't seen a team yet that hasn't found the ability to sign draft picks because they're out of money.

Pretty obvious how you get help... you draft better. How do you think the Dallas Cowboys managed to be highly competitive with a QB taking up $21M in cap space who didn't play for them and had very little cap space to "buy" players?

This isn't rocket science people. When you pay a QB that kind of money, you have to draft well. When you don't draft well, its game over. 

In the end, you're options are largely true. You either pay a QB a lot of money, regardless of whether you think he's good or not, or you try to continuously try to reinvent the 2015 Broncos and put such an amazing roster together that the QB doesn't matter.

As we've seen, it can get you a Lombardi, but its not getting you multiple Lombardi's, and a year later, its not even getting you in the playoffs.

Again, this isn't rocket science. We're not the only team facing this situation. 

Edited February 22 by rmcjacket23

[ByTheBay]

21 hours ago, Azzi22 said:

Has he ever added to a lead we had in the 4TH? hes MR 3-out at the end of games.. that's what I meant

You must be a new member of the flock so I say, Welcome to Ravens nation. Even though I am critical of Flacco lately he has a history of being the exact opposite of the player you are describing. Historically Joe Flacco has been cold out of the gate in the first half only to heat up as the game goes on. Any long time fan always had optimism if we were down after half time and we always and I mean always have faith that he would win the game if he had the ball last and we were only down 1 score. He used to be very reliable at the end of games. 

Edited February 22 by ByTheBay

[RaRaRavens]

17 hours ago, ibleedpurpleandblack said:

It's more than just hindsight here with Flacco and his salary.

First, people are forgetting that two very important things happened that altered the success of the Ravens the following year. (1) Ray Rice was expelled from the league - we lost our pro-bowl caliber RB so there went our run game that we were so dependent on the previous year and (2) Boldin was offered a contract according to the value the Ravens deemed he deserved, as such he refused and ultimately was traded. Then (3) Pitta went out with a broken hip. So while we want to say Flacco hasn't lived up to his contract the truth of the matter the entire team failed to live up to their expectations.

I really wish people would stop with the Flacco bs; In 2014 Ngata's cap hit was $14 million - did he produce at $14 million - NO!!!! Is that Flacco's fault, NO!!! IN 2015 Ngata's cap hit was $7.5 million and he was playing for Detroit!!!! Flacco's fault, NOPE!!

IN 2014 Ray Rice's Cap hit was $6 million and in 2015 his cap hit was $9 million - paid him $15 million to not even play!!!! Is that Flacco's fault, NO!!!!

There is so much more going on with this team than just Flacco and his contract.
 

All that is true, that is why I didn't say Flacco or his contract is THE problem, I said it was one, and in my opinion, the biggest problem.

It's very unfortunate how everything went down with Rice, Q, Pitta, etc. But with the money Flacco's making, he should not go from being among the league's best to being one of the league's worst, because of losing these players. Some drop in production is justifiable, flat out tanking to the bottom is not.

QBs who are paid in that ballpark should be able to make others around him look good, not the other way around. But with Flacco it is the other way around. And since he eats up such a big chunk of the cap, there aren't enough players around him to lift him up. And that is the biggest issue in my opinion.

Ofcourse there is much more going on than Flacco. But all these other players who do not live up to their salary get cut rather sooner than later, as was evidenced by Ngata like you pointed out. This is not an option with Flacco, though. So until we are able to find a solution by making him play better or getting his cap figure lower, he and his contract remain the biggest problem.

[RaRaRavens]

17 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

But its kind of hard to argue that Flacco's cap hit is the biggest problem, when his cap hit from 2013-2015 was less than $15M each and every year.

There's simply no argument that a QB of his caliber playing on a $15M cap hit is stopping the team from doing anything. 

Plus, obviously, you don't need money to get help. I haven't seen a team yet that hasn't found the ability to sign draft picks because they're out of money.

Pretty obvious how you get help... you draft better. How do you think the Dallas Cowboys managed to be highly competitive with a QB taking up $21M in cap space who didn't play for them and had very little cap space to "buy" players?

This isn't rocket science people. When you pay a QB that kind of money, you have to draft well. When you don't draft well, its game over. 

In the end, you're options are largely true. You either pay a QB a lot of money, regardless of whether you think he's good or not, or you try to continuously try to reinvent the 2015 Broncos and put such an amazing roster together that the QB doesn't matter.

As we've seen, it can get you a Lombardi, but its not getting you multiple Lombardi's, and a year later, its not even getting you in the playoffs.

Again, this isn't rocket science. We're not the only team facing this situation. 

I completely agree, 2013-2015 his cap number corresponded very fairly to his quality as a QB. It was not the problem back then and not once did I complain about it.

From 2016, however, he is one the highest paid QBs. Unfortunately, he is not playing even as a top 10 QB. If he was, I would not complain. Or, if his cap hit ranked around 15th among QBs (which would still be pretty generous), i.e. he'd get 18-19M, I would not complain either. It would open up enough cap space so we could afford not losing some of our key FAs. Instead, he's soon to be the top paid QB, but in spite of that needs a lot of help from his teammates to be adequate. We can not afford that, though, one of the biggest reasons for that is Flacco's contract.

Of course it was just one year under his enormous cap number. Who knows, he might be the league's MVP next year and justify his contract. I really really hope so. But if he doesn't and has another below average season, it'll be interesting to hear what the FO has to say about him.

I also agree with you that this probably would not be an issue, if we would have been able to draft better, especially in the early rounds and especially on offense. But we haven't. This is the other major reason why, in my opinion, we are in such a crappy spot right now. And I've called out the FO on these boards many times for it. In fact, most of our recent early round draft picks have been some of the biggest busts in the league. And the few truly great early round picks we manage to find we can't keep, because we don't have the cap room.  

Edited February 23 by RaRaRavens
Grammar