[News] Late For Work 2/20: Ravens Can Double Salary-Cap Space With Rare Offseason Moves

[Militant X 1]

As things stand today, Baltimore’s $15.3 million is the NFL’s fifth-least amount of cap space, according to Spotrac.com. Hensley says the Ravens could create an additional $20.3 million by releasing six veterans.

“The Ravens would need to cut linebacker Elvis Dumervil ($6 million in savings), safety Lardarius Webb ($5.5 million), cornerback Shareece Wright ($2.6 million), center Jeremy Zuttah ($2.3 million), cornerback Kyle Arrington ($2.1 million) and safety Kendrick Lewis ($1.8 million),” Hensley wrote.

See ya!  I wish them all well in their future endeavors.

[OzzieBisciotti]

We're just in a really bad situation - we get rid of these players, then who is going to fill in their shoes? Due to poor drafts, we have no base/ foundation to build upon, and we will stink even more than we did last season. Now that we have to pay avg Joe flacco elite money, it's been harder on the FO to build / keep a good team. Oz and DaCosta have never had to tie up so much money to a QB before- now that we have to, it has exposed our weaknesses and has also exposed Oz and DaCosta as being avg talent evaluators because now they have to work harder to find good players in the drafts and FA market. We don't make the playoffs in 2017 either.

[OzzieBisciotti]

You know when Ray Lewis said that after he left there was no leadership left on the Ravens- and then everyone got upset. Well, he was right. Ever since he left, we've been a bad team- having all these bad drafts haven't helped either. I think we have the largest scounting dept in the league- maybe it's time that we rely more on drafting services than rely upon our human expertise- something needs to change

[letitgosometimes]

Clean house or remain the same; another .500 season is insane.

[RavensDieHard21]

10 hours ago, budman said:

Not that laughable considering he has already turned down a offer that we have made, and it was probably around 6 or 7.

Ya because Ozzie is that shrewd negotiator that come In with a unrealistic first offer. I expect the next one to be 8ish and if that is declined we will see ya later Wagner. A very good pass protector, but he is a mediocre run blocker. I couldn't justify $9 millions year for a one dimensional blocker. 

[BoominRaven]

@billie jean actually brady has restructured to create more cap room for the pats multiple times

[BoominRaven]

Cut all of them, give webb a shot at a paycut first. Mangold may be a cap casualty from the jets, could possibly get him cheap as a 1-2 year stopgap at center, pickup a cheap but still effective right tackle like doug free for the year as well, wagner is flat out not worth 7-8m a year he's too weak of a run blocker.

Re-sign brandon williams and use the rest of that money to go after a bigger WR (brandon marshall if he gets cut) or DB (jefferson at safety or logan ryan/aj bouje at corner)

That would free us up to go defense heavy the first 2 to 3 rounds of the draft. Pass rusher/DB in either order depending how the board falls then around 3rd round can start looking for help at inside linebacker, a developmental center or tackle, kick returner, more developmental pass rushers, etc.

[eze17]

cut the whole team including the front office and coaching staff

Yeah, been done in Cleveland...why not change our name back to the browns? Oh yeah, the Raven's have won two championships, while Cleveland still cries...Art Modell forever, baby!!!

[OzzieBisciotti]

Webb should've been cut 5 years ago. He must have some dirt on someone for him to stay on this team this long. Only Oz and Harbs would let him stay this long. I think we need Doom on this team. Without him, Suggs is even more ineffective. Let's face it, we need to get younger, but we cant' get younger right away due to poor drafts and us not having a young foundation. Who knows. maybe it's also the coaching staff that can't develop players either. i think Bisciotti told Harbs he needed to make some coaching changes to save his career (e.g. adios Castillo). We still dont make the playoffs this year.

[eze17]

You know when Ray Lewis said that after he left there was no leadership left on the Ravens- and then everyone got upset. Well, he was right. Ever since he left, we've been a bad team- having all these bad drafts haven't helped either. I think we have the largest scounting dept in the league- maybe it's time that we rely more on drafting services than rely upon our human expertise- something needs to change

So, like the Raven's never had losing records when Ray was here? Check your history books.

[eze17]

Webb should've been cut 5 years ago. He must have some dirt on someone for him to stay on this team this long. Only Oz and Harbs would let him stay this long. I think we need Doom on this team. Without him, Suggs is even more ineffective. Let's face it, we need to get younger, but we cant' get younger right away due to poor drafts and us not having a young foundation. Who knows. maybe it's also the coaching staff that can't develop players either. i think Bisciotti told Harbs he needed to make some coaching changes to save his career (e.g. adios Castillo). We still dont make the playoffs this year.

What a positive outlook...yeah, might as well give up now, before the Raven's even do anything...NOT!!! I don't live in Cleveland, I support B-more, where we've got two rings, and more coming!

[sizzlingdoom]

Bring back "Q" for a year. He'll "Only" catch 65 balls, move the chains, and bring that winning nasty attitude this team SO desperately needs. Really, if they are considering Cruz and other non factor WR's why not take a look at Boldin if the price is right?

You're right. We do need it desperately. Unfortunately we absolutely did Q wrong, right after he helped carry us to a SB Victory. I doubt he would ever come back. It would be beautiful though. Great compliment to Perriman and Wallace still.
Flacco's contract is actually Q's fault!!! He's the one that made him look so good! HAHAHAHA. Actually it's not that funny...lol
More expensive and different situation, but I think Trumaine Johnson and Brandon Marshall would bring attitude and physically to both sides of the ball and fill 2 huge needs.
A cheaper option at cb could also be Logan Ryan if he doesn't resign with NE. Don't know why he wouldn't though.

[sizzlingdoom]

More names to add to that list of 6. Over 25 mil to clear in cap space with cuts that should be made.
2 Cowboys just cleared over 17 mil in cap space by dropping their base salaries and converting the rest into a "signing" bonus. Can't Flacco do this with any amount of his contract?? Even freeing up a little would be awesome.
We have 15 mil in cap space right now and the NFL cap is going up by about 15.
15+15+25+Any Flacco restructure= Over 60 mil in cap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And I honestly don't think all those cuts leave as many holes as people think.
And I think it's likely Wagner and Williams walk, despite what we offer.
I'm done beating a dead horse after this but I think we need to go 100% after Trumaine Johnson and Brandon Marshall. We would be the best team they've ever been on but I can also see a ton of other reasons why they would both want to come here as well. Trade for Marshall. Flatter Johnson and sign him.
Get it done FO!
That would still leave plenty of money for draft picks as well as adding some other nice complimentary pieces in FA which there are plenty of. He's more than a complimentary piece, but I also think Cyprien would be an amazing addition. Best run defending safety in the game and a sure tackler with serious physicality. That would slide Weddle back to FS to truly patrol the back end.
Makes these 3 additions and our team becomes 10x more physical and WAY better imo. 3 huge needs filled in the best way. All of the sudden our list of needs going into the draft becomes much smaller and more flexible.
I know people will pick and pry at this plan, but right now this is my ideal offseason plan for the Ravens. I'm also very aware there is the tiniest chance of all of this happening. But I also know it all could happen if the Ravens wanted it to. It's not unrealistic "Madden" thoughts. But there are just so many ways to go about things this offseason. We'll see what happens. It's all on the FO now. And there might only be a couple members back from that FO next year, if that, if the right moves aren't made between the draft and FA. So many to be made. Even though my confidence in their decision making has drastically reduced over the years, my excitement for the offseason has not!! I'll never forget when we signed 2 of my favorite football players ever, Weddle and Smitty. My excitement roars/yells were heard from blocks away. So much to be done, but I do believe with the right moves we are right there and could easily hold the most talented roster in the AFC at the start of the season. All of the coaching still has to do a 180 though, which can be done, I hope.

[whobilly]

I'd say maybe keep Webb but only if you can restructure. All of the other above mentioned to expand our cap space.......bye bye. We have to start over evaluating our players. Have to do something different otherwise we are looking at 8-8 at best for the upcoming season.

[Moderator 3]

9 hours ago, BoominRaven said:

@billie jean actually brady has restructured to create more cap room for the pats multiple times

But he didn't end up with any less money. It just got shifted around.  

[J.O.14]

would be nice to see flacco take a minimal pay cut which would help resign some guys or bring in a free agent or 2 but he now has 4 kids so i doubt it is even a thought in his mind

I think the 40 million guaranteed from last year is enough to feed those kids....

[rmcjacket23]

@billie jean actually brady has restructured to create more cap room for the pats multiple times

That's not taking a paycut. Restructuring to reduce current year cap hits only pushes future year cap hits into bigger numbers.

[Drinkmore Beer]

The Ravens missed the playoffs in 2015 because of injuries to "key players." The "key players" returned in 2016 and the team missed the playoffs again. This tells me that the Ravens have a mediocre roster comprised of declining vets and disappointing draft picks. Most of all, it lacks playmakers on both sides of the ball. Answer me this: WHO on the Ravens scares other teams -- a guy or guys you have to really prepare for or get burned? Can't think of a single one.

[rmcjacket23]

I think Dum, Webb, Pitta and Wallace will be back with reduce price, minimun impact on the cap space. Then the rest of the people on the list will be release. With that we can still have over $30 Mil on cap space to sign Brandon, Juice and maybe Wagner. I honestly believe Wagner is gone. With that money will sign Garcon and a CB.

With the first 4 picks through rd 3,we can select a pass rusher, CB, center, guard/ tackle. If we get a guard then Alex Lewis will play RT. It think we will be a better team next year. Ozzie and co have a lot of work to do this off-season. This is a very crucial off season.

Couple problems I see with this:

1. Doom is owed just $6M next season. As a situational pass rusher who's still young enough to be productive when healthy, that's a very reasonable compensation amount. Frankly, if he hits the open market, he's going to get at least $4-5M a season from any team that signs him, and he will certainly get more than $6M in year 1 from any team.

So asking him to take a paycut would prove difficult, mainly because it makes no sense to extend him (since we need to get younger at pass rusher) and because he can easily decline and get as much or more on the open market.

As such, not even sure a paycut is on the table for Doom. I think its him playing out his deal or him getting cut.

2. Webb's situation is difficult as well. He's due $5.5M. I'd say that's a bit high for his value, but the fact that we are extremely old at safety and have no younger options available (at the moment) makes his roster spot secure for now. To me, extending him doesn't make much sense, because safety is arguably the one position on the roster where we need a youth movement at the most, so extending another 30+ year old average safety doesn't make much sense to me.

I think he sticks until after the draft. If we address the safety position early enough in the draft, its possible he's a post-June 1 cut. In the off chance we make a splash and sign a valuable S in FA (like Jefferson, which I doubt), then he's as good as gone.

3. Asking Pitta to take a paycut for the second straight year, while a valid ask, is probably unreasonable as well. We slashed his salary by a gigantic amount last season, and he went on to have a career year. An extension makes no sense there, so IF he agree to take a paycut, it would only be for maybe $1-2M at most.

As such, I think he's in the same spot as Doom... he stays as is, or he's cut outright.

4. Wallace is a major question mark. He too is due a reasonable $5.75M compensation, which is certainly viable for a player who just had a 1,000 yard season. The problem is that his biggest asset is speed, and that speed will decline as he gets older. Given that Perriman and Moore are similar type players, an extension makes zero sense to me, and a paycut would seem unreasonable given his compensation amount.

Think he plays out this year as is and then leaves in FA next offseason.

Overall, my gut feeling is we cut the following players when FA begins:

Doom ($6M in savings)
Wright ($2.7M in savings)
Zuttah ($2.4M in savings)
Watson ($3M in savings)
Arrington ($2.1M in savings)
Lewis ($1.8M in savings)

Those cuts will create roughly $18M in cap space. I think Wallace, Pitta and Webb survive into FA, with Pitta and Webb being wildcards to make it to camp on the roster, pending what happens in FA and in the draft.

And FA signing or significant draft pick at TE or S would likely seal either of their fates.

[rmcjacket23]

I don't see the point in cutting both Lewis & Webb. If this happens The Ravens open a bigger hole at safety than there already is. By keeping one of these guys then at least you have a back-up who has some play making ability if they guy they bring in is a bust.

Would address the position in FA or the draft, which they will likely do regardless.

I think Webb is a prime candidate for a post-June 1 cut, especially if we address the S position early in the draft.

[nj_ravens]

Webb should've been cut 5 years ago. He must have some dirt on someone for him to stay on this team this long. Only Oz and Harbs would let him stay this long. I think we need Doom on this team. Without him, Suggs is even more ineffective. Let's face it, we need to get younger, but we cant' get younger right away due to poor drafts and us not having a young foundation. Who knows. maybe it's also the coaching staff that can't develop players either. i think Bisciotti told Harbs he needed to make some coaching changes to save his career (e.g. adios Castillo). We still dont make the playoffs this year.

The team is already really young. Young guys need reps. Cut Dum.

[berad]

6 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Couple problems I see with this:

1. Doom is owed just $6M next season. As a situational pass rusher who's still young enough to be productive when healthy, that's a very reasonable compensation amount. Frankly, if he hits the open market, he's going to get at least $4-5M a season from any team that signs him, and he will certainly get more than $6M in year 1 from any team.

So asking him to take a paycut would prove difficult, mainly because it makes no sense to extend him (since we need to get younger at pass rusher) and because he can easily decline and get as much or more on the open market.

As such, not even sure a paycut is on the table for Doom. I think its him playing out his deal or him getting cut.

If teams would be interested in him at that rate, what are the chances of a trade?

[J. Naranjo]

19 hours ago, jsarrocohome@yahoo.com said:

webb played terrible and so did Levine and all those players you just named will all be thankfully cut

16 overall safety in the NFL per pff.. seems good enough to me for a first year safety

[rmcjacket23]

Also why is Pat Moriarty, Ozzie and John given a free pass in how we are pressed against the max cap every year? Forget that, the amount of dead money that keeps getting accumulated? That directly falls on these guys' heads. Dead money only means wasted money period. We have much more than the average share of dead money every year.

How is it that the Patriots who have a SB winning HC/GM do such a great job managing their cap? They have 3 times the cap space we do and yet are contenders year in and year out! Time to turn the focus back on the our front office and coaches. They aren't doing a great job at cap management period.

1. Dead money isn't really all that relevant. It certainly doesn't prevent teams from fielding quality teams. Fans overreact to this far too often.

In fact, if fans really understand what dead money is, its a fixed, sunk cost. It doesn't factor into decision making, because there's no decision that can be made to alter it. Its putting somebodies salary on a credit card and having to pay the debt off eventually. Rarely has anything to do with expenses related to that season.

2. As it were, in 2016, we were 14th in the league in dead money, at $15.3M. Represents only about 10% of the cap space we used.

By comparison, that was about $2M less in dead money than the Patriots had, and over $10M less than the Falcons, who had the 3rd most dead money in the league at close to $26M. 4 of the top 10 teams in dead money made the playoffs in 2016, so its certainly not preventing a team from fielding a quality team.

Of the bottom 10 teams in the league in dead cap spending, 5 of them made the playoffs. Would also point out that the difference between being 14th in dead money and being 24th in dead money is about $5M in 2016.

3. Ravens ranking in terms of dead money by year (recent years):

2016 - 14th ($15.3M). Biggest factors: Forsett ($3M), Monroe ($2.2M), Will Hill ($1.75M), Daryl Smith ($1.75M)

2015 - 6th ($24M) Biggest factors: Rice ($9.5M), Ngata ($7.5M), Jacoby Jones ($2.6M)

2014 - 16th ($14.9M). Biggest factors: Rice ($6.3M), Pollard ($1.5M), Jameel McClain ($1.2M), Huff & McKinnie ($1M each)

2013 - 9th ($17.5M). Biggest factors: Ray Lewis ($2.95M), Cundiff ($1.8M), Boldin ($1.5M), Birk ($1.4M), Leach ($1.3M), McKinnie ($1M).

Interesting of note here is 1. The gigantic impact that Ray Rice's situation had on our salary cap for 2014-2015 and 2. that our dead money spending was very similar in 2014 (when we had a pretty good team) as it was last season (when we didn't), and that's despite a significant increase in the salary cap over that 2 year period.

In short, we don't have as much dead money as people think we do compared to other teams, nor is it a barrier to fielding a quality football team.

[J. Naranjo]

14 hours ago, huntrgathrr said:

I would have no problem letting Webb or Dumervil go. We should trade up for 2 high round corners and a safety. Replacements for Orr and Williams can be found in the early and mid rounds. Kafusi and Correa have to come up big this year..
Wallace also can go as he is too expensive for what he contributes. I think Waller and Perriman will step up this year so keeping Aiken and adding a couple of receivers in the early rounds would be wise from a cap space viewpoint.
Maxx Williams and Boyle need to emerge this year to complement Pitta. Pitta showed he is fully healed and had a pretty good year, often making 9-10 catches a game.
I'm happy with West and Dixon as well as Juice at RB. The hit Juice put on Mitchell on Christmas Day to score the go ahead TD showed me the guy can be a real contributor next year.
I hope they find a way to keep Wagner and Brandon Williams as it will be a big loss if they lose them both.

No way Aiken remains with Ravens after falling from the number 1 receiver last year to the number 4 this year. plus, with his production from a year ago he could very well make around the same money wallace will make this year

[rmcjacket23]

20 minutes ago, berad said:

If teams would be interested in him at that rate, what are the chances of a trade?

Would seem possible, much in the mold of Ngata, but obviously the return wouldn't be much.

His recent injury history might make that more difficult, however. 

[rmcjacket23]

15 minutes ago, J. Naranjo said:

16 overall safety in the NFL per pff.. seems good enough to me for a first year safety

Agreed, BUT, he will also be 32 next season. If he were 22 coming out of college, whole different discussion.

32 year old converted corner to safety in the last year of his contract (that pays him like a corner) with a large amount of durability concerns who is basically average by PFF standards.

That will get you on the roster bubble everytime.

[rmcjacket23]

4 minutes ago, J. Naranjo said:

No way Aiken remains with Ravens after falling from the number 1 receiver last year to the number 4 this year. plus, with his production from a year ago he could very well make around the same money wallace will make this year

I'd take the under on that, even in a bad FA market for WRs.

I think other teams are aware that he's been 3rd or 4th on the depth chart in an offense that has lacked quality WRs for some time now, and as such, I'm not sure there's a team out there where he would be higher than 2nd on the chart. Certainly not going to get any looks as a #1 WR from anybody.

If he gets more than $5M a year on a 2-3 year, mostly non-guaranteed contract, I'd be surprised.

[J. Naranjo]

4 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Agreed, BUT, he will also be 32 next season. If he were 22 coming out of college, whole different discussion.

32 year old converted corner to safety in the last year of his contract (that pays him like a corner) with a large amount of durability concerns who is basically average by PFF standards.

That will get you on the roster bubble everytime.

with so many free agents and have-to-be-cut players in the secondary, webb has to stay. Get him a 2 year extension, that lowers the cap, gets paid like a safety instead of a corner, draft a young guy that can contribute and see where to go from there next year.

[J. Naranjo]

4 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I'd take the under on that, even in a bad FA market for WRs.

I think other teams are aware that he's been 3rd or 4th on the depth chart in an offense that has lacked quality WRs for some time now, and as such, I'm not sure there's a team out there where he would be higher than 2nd on the chart. Certainly not going to get any looks as a #1 WR from anybody.

If he gets more than $5M a year on a 2-3 year, mostly non-guaranteed contract, I'd be surprised.

there are teams willing to pay big money for one year of production. ravens paid shareece wright based on 9 games and he now has to be cut. And I dont think its even money related wether aiken stays or goes. he had some comments that basically said he was mad with his position the depth chart and it would certanly factor in free agency decisions