[News] Late For Work 2/14: Interest In Tony Jefferson. Rick Wagner Rebuffed Offer. How About Victor Cruz?

[bigcatfrank1]

Cruz could work, most WR in his situation are risks. However he is coming back from injury not headed into one.

[rmcjacket23]

53 minutes ago, ByTheBay said:

I hope you are right because I can see some other team overpaying Wagner and Alex Lewis moving to RT. That might leave us looking for 2 OLineman in the draft. Also FA but whoever is available may not be as good as what we are letting go if Zuttah and Wagner are gone. Why does it feel like we have major needs at every possition but QB, RB and TE? Ozzie has some work to do this year. 

Well, you have an aging defense and a very young offense, and you're team is lacking talent at a lot of positions. Naturally we could upgrade in plenty of spaces.

QB, RB and defensive line look fine to me, regardless of whether we retain Williams. TE has a lot of players but questionable whether any of them are any good. 

We need a veteran WR, an Olineman or two (could potentially have a respectable Guard on the roster already), a MLB and a ton of help in the secondary. Could probably use a pass rusher or two as well.

Its certainly a lot, and more than what we will get in a single offseason.

[fusuymada]

It all comes down to salary cap. When Joe produced like an elite qb he was paid like one. Now for two years he has landed in the bottom third of qbs in the league and is still getting paid in the top 5. I know that Flacco is in the drivers seat, but I would remind him, if I was Ozzie, that he can't do it on his own, he had two years to show that and he failed. We don't have the cap space with his numbers to do the things we need to get back into the playoffs. Like many elite qbs before him, Brees, Manning, Brady (to name a few) have all taken that late career pay cut so they can get the talent to make it to the big dance.

If Flacco continues to fail to cooperate, I would get a veteran qb to challenge him and pick up a rookie also. I would also let Flacco know as soon as his dead money gets to where the Ravens can stand it, they will release him. I would start using more wild cat and other qbs in game situations and I would make it obvious to Joe that he is being phased out. If he wants to be a persona non grata while all the time taking up space at the castle, then let him be miserable sitting on the bench, carrying peoples gear or whatever the Ravens can think of to get him to quit if he refuses to take a pay cut.

I have always defended Flacco but he is indefensible at this point with his production and his cap number. It is long overdue that this team start playing hardball with Flacco.

[J.O.14]

  1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

As is the case every year, there will be positions and classes of positions that are merely "projected" as weak, and turn out to be quite strong, and vice versa.

When most people look at classes and label them as "strong" or "weak", in most cases, they're looking at the first round exclusively.

Given what I've seen this team do historically in prior drafts, I see no reason why they wouldn't come out of the draft with a quality Tackle or Guard, and can probably do so with a day 2 or 3 pick.

I hope you are right because I can see some other team overpaying Wagner and Alex Lewis moving to RT. That might leave us looking for 2 OLineman in the draft. Also FA but whoever is available may not be as good as what we are letting go if Zuttah and Wagner are gone. Why does it feel like we have major needs at every possition but QB, RB and TE? Ozzie has some work to do this year. 

Well, as Jacket said we do have a lot of areas that need improving. I think it's more on the defensive side of the ball than offense for sure. I thought Ducasse played admirably for most of the season and wouldn't hinder us to much. Offensively is mainly just playmakers at the WR position. We need another WR or 2, which is a need we have had for the past 21 years pretty much. RB and TE are good enough for us to be very successful.

Defensively, we need a CB, ILB, and could use an upgrade at FS though Webb wasn't that bad. If we lose Williams, that will hurt. But we can withstand that more than not upgrading our secondary or ILB. We also need some pass rushers. Ozzie does have his work cut out, but we can still field a contending team next season for sure.

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, J.O.14 said:

Well, as Jacket said we do have a lot of areas that need improving. I think it's more on the defensive side of the ball than offense for sure. I thought Ducasse played admirably for most of the season and wouldn't hinder us to much. Offensively is mainly just playmakers at the WR position. We need another WR or 2, which is a need we have had for the past 21 years pretty much. RB and TE are good enough for us to be very successful.

Defensively, we need a CB, ILB, and could use an upgrade at FS though Webb wasn't that bad. If we lose Williams, that will hurt. But we can withstand that more than not upgrading our secondary or ILB. We also need some pass rushers. Ozzie does have his work cut out, but we can still field a contending team next season for sure.

That's sort of the odd situation with this offseason... the defense was far and away the better unit of the two overall last season, yet its the unit that probably needs the most emphasis this offseason.

The offense wasn't very good... that much is obvious. The problem is that there's actually not a very good amount of turnover that is likely to happen in terms of personnel. Flacco is obviously going to be there, the RBs don't figure to change dramatically, and 60% of your offensive line is locked into a starting job (Stanley, Yanda and Lewis). Perriman figures to factor in heavily, and we have like 6 TEs on the roster, 4 of which are under rookie contracts, so we don't expect to see dramatic turnover there.

If Wallace is retained, you're basically looking at two new offensive lineman and an addition or two at WR, and that's probably about it for the offense. The offense is a case of just young guys needing to step up and play better, as opposed to major personnel changes.

The defense is a different story. While overall pretty good last year, we are old at OLB and in the secondary, particularly at safety. We're looking at a youth movement at corner and at safety, we now need an ILB, and we probably need at least one more pass rusher, all of which you would figure we would like to see younger players at, not veteran FA signings.

That's the issue. The defense is getting older and getting there fast, and its in need of a talent infusion and youth/speed, particularly on the back end. 

[ByTheBay]

44 minutes ago, bigcatfrank1 said:

I think you are stretching things about every position, its a match game when you are facing FA with the talent the Ravens have.
I find it amazing how its said there is so much to need, yet, we value every player we have?
Lets look at it just a little more in detail instead of generalizing- Jacket is correct;

Tackle or a Guard in the draft - added to Stanley, Lewis, Yanda, Jenson, Urshel, newbies- Nembot, Skura, Pughsley, De Ondre with an option at Ducasse.

QB, TE, strong RB and WR good but could use some strengthening

The D line is solid, just need to decide on Williams.
The LB corp is well above average.
Safeties corp finished well last year, solid for the most part.

CB is the position of big need for the Ravens .

The Ravens are in better shape than many NFL teams, They need to tweek things and maybe be a little more risky in my opinion.

I'm really not trying to be an alarmist but the way I see our roster is this:

Offense:

QB - set

RB - I am fine with what we have but so many feel we could use an upgrade

TE - I am fine with what we have but so many feel we could use an upgrade

WR - Need to replace SSS and maybe Aiken

Oline - Need to replace Zuttah and maybe Wagner and add bigger stronger depth

 

Defense:

Safety - Webb needs to be upgraded

CB - Need upgrade opposite Jimmy and possibly another quality addition to back up jimmy when he misses games as he does

MLB - need to replace Orr

OLB - need more pass rush

Oline - there will most likely be a drop off in production if Williams goes so we will need to try and help Pierce and maybe Davis if they are not up to the task. 

 

So thats every group but QB, RB and TE. I know we have young draft picks that should be able to fill some of these voids but the FO doesnt speak about them with confidence. I think we will field a respectable team next season but it will be a surprise if they can fill all of those weaknesses. I also have high hopes that Maxx will have a big year after setting rookie TE records last year. And our draft picks from last year may also contribute in a possitive way taking some of the pressure off the FO. 

Edited February 14 by ByTheBay

[Halshayeji]

3 hours ago, jsarrocohome@yahoo.com said:

No Cruze Let wagner walk if any body gives him anywhere near 10 mill a year they should get fired and as for B.Williams I guess you would play for 14 mill ayear Dude your actually worth about half that

A bit harsh but unfortunately very accurate...

cruz who I really like as a player may still have some gas but I wouldn't touch him because of the risk of him getting hurt. That simple.

wagner should be offered 8 mil per year take it of leave it deal where he'd have to earn the last 2-3 years when the cap hit really hurts

williams is not worth more than 10 a year so offer him that with a nice guarantee and call it a day.

both cap hits would count less than 9 mil against the cap this year.

let go of Doom and Watson and start the offseason with one objective. Get better! 

[jsarrocohome@yahoo.com]

  4 hours ago, jsarrocohome@yahoo.com said:

No Cruze Let wagner walk if any body gives him anywhere near 10 mill a year they should get fired and as for B.Williams I guess you would play for 14 mill ayear Dude your actually worth about half that

A bit harsh but unfortunately very accurate...

cruz who I really like as a player may still have some gas but I wouldn't touch him because of the risk of him getting hurt. That simple.

wagner should be offered 8 mil per year take it of leave it deal where he'd have to earn the last 2-3 years when the cap hit really hurts

williams is not worth more than 10 a year so offer him that with a nice guarantee and call it a day.

both cap hits would count less than 9 mil against the cap this year.

let go of Doom and Watson and start the offseason with one objective. Get better! 

I agree with everything you said except Williams he's not worth 10 mill a year in my opinion I also like all 3 players but cruze Injury prone and on down side of career wangner I like at 7 mill a year and B Williams 7 maybe 8 mill a year WE can Afford to lose Williams we need a better LB , safety and CB

[FloridalovesRavens]

It all comes down to salary cap. When Joe produced like an elite qb he was paid like one. Now for two years he has landed in the bottom third of qbs in the league and is still getting paid in the top 5. I know that Flacco is in the drivers seat, but I would remind him, if I was Ozzie, that he can't do it on his own, he had two years to show that and he failed. We don't have the cap space with his numbers to do the things we need to get back into the playoffs. Like many elite qbs before him, Brees, Manning, Brady (to name a few) have all taken that late career pay cut so they can get the talent to make it to the big dance.

If Flacco continues to fail to cooperate, I would get a veteran qb to challenge him and pick up a rookie also. I would also let Flacco know as soon as his dead money gets to where the Ravens can stand it, they will release him. I would start using more wild cat and other qbs in game situations and I would make it obvious to Joe that he is being phased out. If he wants to be a persona non grata while all the time taking up space at the castle, then let him be miserable sitting on the bench, carrying peoples gear or whatever the Ravens can think of to get him to quit if he refuses to take a pay cut.

I have always defended Flacco but he is indefensible at this point with his production and his cap number. It is long overdue that this team start playing hardball with Flacco.

Oh give it a rest. He's coming off of a serious injury.Too many other factors come into being a "elite" QB. He really has not had the kind of receivers as players like Ryan and Manning have had. He just renegotiated his contract a little while ago so don't expect a pay cut from him nor should he have to take one.

[Ravens8383]

While I would love for Williams and Wagner to both stay its not worth throwing more and more money their way if they don't want to be a Raven. I look at players like Suggs who want to retire Ravens and worked with the FO to make it work for both himself and the team. Those are the players I want to see on this team.

[ellicottraven]

If we have to franchise tag Brandon Williams then we are clearly in much worse shape decision making wise than I thought and believed previously. In fact if we pay Williams more than 7-8 M a year then the same conclusion holds true.

[ellicottraven]

Brandon Williams is no Haloti Ngata. He's too one dimensional - more a Kelly Gregg type player than a Haloti type player. We can't afford to pay too much for him or we'll end up losing talent elsewhere where big money is needed for retaining and acquiring stars.

[bigcatfrank1]

  7 hours ago, bigcatfrank1 said:

I think you are stretching things about every position, its a match game when you are facing FA with the talent the Ravens have.
I find it amazing how its said there is so much to need, yet, we value every player we have?
Lets look at it just a little more in detail instead of generalizing- Jacket is correct;

Tackle or a Guard in the draft - added to Stanley, Lewis, Yanda, Jenson, Urshel, newbies- Nembot, Skura, Pughsley, De Ondre with an option at Ducasse.

QB, TE, strong RB and WR good but could use some strengthening

The D line is solid, just need to decide on Williams.
The LB corp is well above average.
Safeties corp finished well last year, solid for the most part.

CB is the position of big need for the Ravens .

The Ravens are in better shape than many NFL teams, They need to tweek things and maybe be a little more risky in my opinion.

I'm really not trying to be an alarmist but the way I see our roster is this:

Offense:

QB - set

RB - I am fine with what we have but so many feel we could use an upgrade

TE - I am fine with what we have but so many feel we could use an upgrade

WR - Need to replace SSS and maybe Aiken

Oline - Need to replace Zuttah and maybe Wagner and add bigger stronger depth

 

Defense:

Safety - Webb needs to be upgraded

CB - Need upgrade opposite Jimmy and possibly another quality addition to back up jimmy when he misses games as he does

MLB - need to replace Orr

OLB - need more pass rush

Oline - there will most likely be a drop off in production if Williams goes so we will need to try and help Pierce and maybe Davis if they are not up to the task. 

 

So thats every group but QB, RB and TE. I know we have young draft picks that should be able to fill some of these voids but the FO doesnt speak about them with confidence. I think we will field a respectable team next season but it will be a surprise if they can fill all of those weaknesses. I also have high hopes that Maxx will have a big year after setting rookie TE records last year. And our draft picks from last year may also contribute in a possitive way taking some of the pressure off the FO. 

Thanks, yes thats much clearer look and I would agree with most. Obviously all NFL teams go into a season with question marks, there is no way any team can go into a season filled with Pro-bowlers at every position. So its about relying on the young, rebound, or recouping players will step up.

I think the MLB & OLB will be ok, it will take a while to reach Orr level but there are other strengths.

Webb was better than league average, expect he will improve more.

SO if we keep one of Williams, Wagner or Zuttah that leaves - 2 needed- one FA one in the draft
Get a mid level WR- Cruz, Garcon type and a low end draft

CB- get a FA and 2 in the draft

that leaves 3 draft choices for - LB, RB and Safety (or any options)

Ravens just need to add a couple playmakers, stop the stupid mistakes and get healthy. They really could have beaten most teams last year it they didn't beat themselves first.

[mrc724]

While I would love for Williams and Wagner to both stay its not worth throwing more and more money their way if they don't want to be a Raven. I look at players like Suggs who want to retire Ravens and worked with the FO to make it work for both himself and the team. Those are the players I want to see on this team.

Agree, Wagner hasn't done much. He has had chances, to solidify his position or talking potential, he hasn't proven his in 4 years.

[mrc724]

  9 hours ago, bigcatfrank1 said:

I think you are stretching things about every position, its a match game when you are facing FA with the talent the Ravens have.
I find it amazing how its said there is so much to need, yet, we value every player we have?
Lets look at it just a little more in detail instead of generalizing- Jacket is correct;

Tackle or a Guard in the draft - added to Stanley, Lewis, Yanda, Jenson, Urshel, newbies- Nembot, Skura, Pughsley, De Ondre with an option at Ducasse.

QB, TE, strong RB and WR good but could use some strengthening

The D line is solid, just need to decide on Williams.
The LB corp is well above average.
Safeties corp finished well last year, solid for the most part.

CB is the position of big need for the Ravens .

The Ravens are in better shape than many NFL teams, They need to tweek things and maybe be a little more risky in my opinion.

I'm really not trying to be an alarmist but the way I see our roster is this:

Offense:

QB - set

RB - I am fine with what we have but so many feel we could use an upgrade

TE - I am fine with what we have but so many feel we could use an upgrade

WR - Need to replace SSS and maybe Aiken

Oline - Need to replace Zuttah and maybe Wagner and add bigger stronger depth

 

Defense:

Safety - Webb needs to be upgraded

CB - Need upgrade opposite Jimmy and possibly another quality addition to back up jimmy when he misses games as he does

MLB - need to replace Orr

OLB - need more pass rush

Oline - there will most likely be a drop off in production if Williams goes so we will need to try and help Pierce and maybe Davis if they are not up to the task. 

 

So thats every group but QB, RB and TE. I know we have young draft picks that should be able to fill some of these voids but the FO doesnt speak about them with confidence. I think we will field a respectable team next season but it will be a surprise if they can fill all of those weaknesses. I also have high hopes that Maxx will have a big year after setting rookie TE records last year. And our draft picks from last year may also contribute in a possitive way taking some of the pressure off the FO. 

Why are Ravens so hot on Wagner. What has done, nothing to speak of? Can anyone tell me why is so coveted? Same with Ureshal. If they are so good, why aren't they starting?

[mrc724]

Cruz could work, most WR in his situation are risks. However he is coming back from injury not headed into one.

I would wait until we know more about Garcon's availability, he could be perfect for the Ravens.

[#Nevermore]

Wagner is going to get more on the open market. We don't need to get in a bidding war. I believe he is gone.

Williams is saying all the right things. I believe he will take less than market value and he will stay.

No to Victor Cruz, if that was even a question.

No to Jefferson. We need to draft better and we will have a better cap situation. We get into cap issues by signing guys we have no business signing to long term deals.

[billiejean]

  13 hours ago, ByTheBay said:

  14 hours ago, bigcatfrank1 said:

I think you are stretching things about every position, its a match game when you are facing FA with the talent the Ravens have.
I find it amazing how its said there is so much to need, yet, we value every player we have?
Lets look at it just a little more in detail instead of generalizing- Jacket is correct;

Tackle or a Guard in the draft - added to Stanley, Lewis, Yanda, Jenson, Urshel, newbies- Nembot, Skura, Pughsley, De Ondre with an option at Ducasse.

QB, TE, strong RB and WR good but could use some strengthening

The D line is solid, just need to decide on Williams.
The LB corp is well above average.
Safeties corp finished well last year, solid for the most part.

CB is the position of big need for the Ravens .

The Ravens are in better shape than many NFL teams, They need to tweek things and maybe be a little more risky in my opinion.

I'm really not trying to be an alarmist but the way I see our roster is this:

Offense:

QB - set

RB - I am fine with what we have but so many feel we could use an upgrade

TE - I am fine with what we have but so many feel we could use an upgrade

WR - Need to replace SSS and maybe Aiken

Oline - Need to replace Zuttah and maybe Wagner and add bigger stronger depth

 

Defense:

Safety - Webb needs to be upgraded

CB - Need upgrade opposite Jimmy and possibly another quality addition to back up jimmy when he misses games as he does

MLB - need to replace Orr

OLB - need more pass rush

Oline - there will most likely be a drop off in production if Williams goes so we will need to try and help Pierce and maybe Davis if they are not up to the task. 

 

So thats every group but QB, RB and TE. I know we have young draft picks that should be able to fill some of these voids but the FO doesnt speak about them with confidence. I think we will field a respectable team next season but it will be a surprise if they can fill all of those weaknesses. I also have high hopes that Maxx will have a big year after setting rookie TE records last year. And our draft picks from last year may also contribute in a possitive way taking some of the pressure off the FO. 

Why are Ravens so hot on Wagner. What has done, nothing to speak of? Can anyone tell me why is so coveted? Same with Ureshal. If they are so good, why aren't they starting?

Ummmm yea. Youre right about Urschel but Rick has played extremely well. He has started the last three years. Injuries hampered him in 2015 and he ended up having a down year but in 2014 he was rated as the league best RT in the league and as the 5th best tackle (RT or LT). This past year he was rated as the 6th best RT. Its pretty darn good for a fifth round draft pick. I am not sure how you came to the conclusion that he has done, "nothing to speak of". He is coveted and he deserves to be coveted.

[billiejean]

  10 hours ago, Ravens8383 said:

While I would love for Williams and Wagner to both stay its not worth throwing more and more money their way if they don't want to be a Raven. I look at players like Suggs who want to retire Ravens and worked with the FO to make it work for both himself and the team. Those are the players I want to see on this team.

Agree, Wagner hasn't done much. He has had chances, to solidify his position or talking potential, he hasn't proven his in 4 years.

Again I cant believe that you are making such outlandish statements. He has solidified his position. Im not sure what talking potential is. Hes been one of the best RTs in the league in 2014, and 2016, with an injury plagued down year in 2015. It probably the time to concede the fact that you don't know enough about OL players to give an accurate assessment of their performance.

[Drinkmore Beer]

Signing Victor Cruz would truly be an act of desperation.

[Obie]

I'm telling ya, get rid of flacco, save the money and get some real players, mallet or any other half bud qb will do just find, we run nothing but hs ball anyway.

[purpledown]

No to picking up Cruz,another old , injury prone vet, past his prime. Let Wagner go he can be easily replaced, sign Williams, he wants to be here.

[Asmodeus1971]

  On 2/14/2017 at 9:23 PM, mrc724 said:

  On 2/14/2017 at 0:00 PM, ByTheBay said:

  On 2/14/2017 at 11:18 AM, bigcatfrank1 said:

I think you are stretching things about every position, its a match game when you are facing FA with the talent the Ravens have.
I find it amazing how its said there is so much to need, yet, we value every player we have?
Lets look at it just a little more in detail instead of generalizing- Jacket is correct;

Tackle or a Guard in the draft - added to Stanley, Lewis, Yanda, Jenson, Urshel, newbies- Nembot, Skura, Pughsley, De Ondre with an option at Ducasse.

QB, TE, strong RB and WR good but could use some strengthening

The D line is solid, just need to decide on Williams.
The LB corp is well above average.
Safeties corp finished well last year, solid for the most part.

CB is the position of big need for the Ravens .

The Ravens are in better shape than many NFL teams, They need to tweek things and maybe be a little more risky in my opinion.

I'm really not trying to be an alarmist but the way I see our roster is this:

Offense:

QB - set

RB - I am fine with what we have but so many feel we could use an upgrade

TE - I am fine with what we have but so many feel we could use an upgrade

WR - Need to replace SSS and maybe Aiken

Oline - Need to replace Zuttah and maybe Wagner and add bigger stronger depth

 

Defense:

Safety - Webb needs to be upgraded

CB - Need upgrade opposite Jimmy and possibly another quality addition to back up jimmy when he misses games as he does

MLB - need to replace Orr

OLB - need more pass rush

Oline - there will most likely be a drop off in production if Williams goes so we will need to try and help Pierce and maybe Davis if they are not up to the task. 

 

So thats every group but QB, RB and TE. I know we have young draft picks that should be able to fill some of these voids but the FO doesnt speak about them with confidence. I think we will field a respectable team next season but it will be a surprise if they can fill all of those weaknesses. I also have high hopes that Maxx will have a big year after setting rookie TE records last year. And our draft picks from last year may also contribute in a possitive way taking some of the pressure off the FO. 

Why are Ravens so hot on Wagner. What has done, nothing to speak of? Can anyone tell me why is so coveted? Same with Ureshal. If they are so good, why aren't they starting?

Ummmm yea. Youre right about Urschel but Rick has played extremely well. He has started the last three years. Injuries hampered him in 2015 and he ended up having a down year but in 2014 he was rated as the league best RT in the league and as the 5th best tackle (RT or LT). This past year he was rated as the 6th best RT. Its pretty darn good for a fifth round draft pick. I am not sure how you came to the conclusion that he has done, "nothing to speak of". He is coveted and he deserves to be coveted.

If the left side when Stanley was in was so good and not allowing hardly sacks or even QB rushes, then where were they happening? Wagner got beat often and some reason still was scored good on that joke of a scoring system. Him and Zutah are our main weaknesses on offense period. Second, would be the fact that we don't have any WRs that know how to get open or play back to the QB if he is under pressure. That could be in the coaching, it could be on the players. Wagner just isn't worth the money.

[billiejean]

On 2/16/2017 at 11:23 AM, Asmodeus1971 said:

If the left side when Stanley was in was so good and not allowing hardly sacks or even QB rushes, then where were they happening? Wagner got beat often and some reason still was scored good on that joke of a scoring system. Him and Zutah are our main weaknesses on offense period. Second, would be the fact that we don't have any WRs that know how to get open or play back to the QB if he is under pressure. That could be in the coaching, it could be on the players. Wagner just isn't worth the money.

15 NFL teams pay thousands of dollars for the joke scoring system that you speak of.  For starters Stanley gave up more sacks than Wagner did this year.  So that pretty much blows two of you assertion out of the water.  The weakest player on our line last year was by far and away Ducasse.  Wagner is far from a weakness.  In fact he is one of the best players at his position.  How you came to the conclusion that you know more about a players talent than every other reporter or coach in the NFL is beyond me.  You would be hard pressed to find anyone  that criticized Wagners 2nd and 4th season. As I said 3rd season was a down season because he had a hard time staying healthy.  It would behoove you to learn how something works before criticizing it.  NFL teams are not paying PFF to play pin the tail on the donkey.  Below is an in depth description of how they rate players with that "joke scoring system".  

https://www.profootballfocus.com/about/how-we-grade/

Edited April 28 by Moderator 3
Insults removed

[Edgar]

Wagner is THE priority to me. "Overpay "a little if necessary.

Salary cap goes up again this year. Perfect time to invest in Wagner as it will time to pay Stanley 4 years from now.

Should be viewed as money allocated to the OLINE in general as well as a further investment in keeping QB health 

[balfan23]

Wagner is a tough case. Our O line wasn't very good, so if we lose him, we have to consider the cost of replacement. We could possibly shift Lewis over there, as it is perhaps cheaper to fill in with a good option at guard over tackle. All that said, I don't who is going to be available - and ... we've said we want to upgrade at O line. That move is basically just status quo. That would mean 2 moves ... either in FA or draft, to both replace Wagner and upgrade. 

[JoeyFlex5]

why is victor cruz even being circulated? he is a shell of his old self. hes not steve smith, derrick mason, or anquan boldin, he wont come here and make that same impact. 

i dont understand how hes even on the radar with guys like robert woods, kenny britt, and pierre garcon hitting the market. victor cruz should be like our tenth option.

[JoeyFlex5]

On 2/14/2017 at 2:36 PM, fusuymada said:

It all comes down to salary cap. When Joe produced like an elite qb he was paid like one. Now for two years he has landed in the bottom third of qbs in the league and is still getting paid in the top 5. I know that Flacco is in the drivers seat, but I would remind him, if I was Ozzie, that he can't do it on his own, he had two years to show that and he failed. We don't have the cap space with his numbers to do the things we need to get back into the playoffs. Like many elite qbs before him, Brees, Manning, Brady (to name a few) have all taken that late career pay cut so they can get the talent to make it to the big dance.

If Flacco continues to fail to cooperate, I would get a veteran qb to challenge him and pick up a rookie also. I would also let Flacco know as soon as his dead money gets to where the Ravens can stand it, they will release him. I would start using more wild cat and other qbs in game situations and I would make it obvious to Joe that he is being phased out. If he wants to be a persona non grata while all the time taking up space at the castle, then let him be miserable sitting on the bench, carrying peoples gear or whatever the Ravens can think of to get him to quit if he refuses to take a pay cut.

I have always defended Flacco but he is indefensible at this point with his production and his cap number. It is long overdue that this team start playing hardball with Flacco.

lol WHAT? 

some of the things i read on these forums boy i tell ya... 

by the way if you wanna know how flacco does when hes actually in a situation that can allow for productive qb play, look at his season after the bye week, ya know, when his line and receivers were actually on the field and he was mentally getting over his multiple torn knee ligaments.

[JoeyFlex5]

On 2/16/2017 at 11:23 AM, Asmodeus1971 said:

If the left side when Stanley was in was so good and not allowing hardly sacks or even QB rushes, then where were they happening? Wagner got beat often and some reason still was scored good on that joke of a scoring system. Him and Zutah  are our main weaknesses on offense period. Second, would be the fact that we don't have any WRs that know how to get open or play back to the QB if he is under pressure. That could be in the coaching, it could be on the players. Wagner just isn't worth the money.

marshal yanda was playing out of position and with one arm, our starting RG was ducasse for a good period of time, and zuttah had clearly taken a step back. 

wagner is not the issue on our line, he could stand to get more push in the ground game, but wagner isnt the one putting DTs in joes lap before he finishes his drop.