allblackraven

Ravens were about to give entire 2008 draft for Ryan

269 posts in this topic

8 hours ago, gtalk12 said:

 

 

This was the point I was making, whether the play calling was correct or not they put it in his hands and the rest was history. I do not understand what there is to talk about? #1 offense, MVP of the regular season, Pats dared the Falcons to beat them with Ryan.

 

And by the way, I do not have access to advanced stats unfortunately but one thing I did find interesting is that a couple of years ago with a worse offensive line Ryans average time in the pocket before being sacked/releasing the ball/ or running out the pocket was 2.73 seconds.

is it really that hard to understand that 2 seconds is not enough time to complete a 5 or 7 step drop back, go through your read and pass the ball?

im 100% positive that the 2.73 seconds is based on all pass plays and not just 5 to 7 step drop backs, even so 2.73 was still more then the time he actually had on the 2 plays you blame him for....


also not sure what years ago have to do with what actually happened on those 2 plays.


 

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15 hours ago, gtalk12 said:

This was the point I was making, whether the play calling was correct or not they put it in his hands and the rest was history. I do not understand what there is to talk about? #1 offense, MVP of the regular season, Pats dared the Falcons to beat them with Ryan.

 

And by the way, I do not have access to advanced stats unfortunately but one thing I did find interesting is that a couple of years ago with a worse offensive line Ryans average time in the pocket before being sacked/releasing the ball/ or running out the pocket was 2.73 seconds.

That's a fair point. Ryan was probably on board with being aggressive - maybe even encouraged in as Joe has done in the past - but when he got that pressure up that middle, he panicked, ran the wrong way, and held the ball longer than he should. Then the series of plays that pushed them out of FG range where he can be heard mic'd up saying 'What the [Falcon], guys, did you hold?' as they shot themselves in the foot again.

Can't really blame him for the sack-fumble. His RB whiffed and Ryan didn't even see the guy.

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11 hours ago, Tru11 said:

is it really that hard to understand that 2 seconds is not enough time to complete a 5 or 7 step drop back, go through your read and pass the ball?

im 100% positive that the 2.73 seconds is based on all pass plays and not just 5 to 7 step drop backs, even so 2.73 was still more then the time he actually had on the 2 plays you blame him for....


also not sure what years ago have to do with what actually happened on those 2 plays.


 

 

Bc it was enough time to get rid of the ball when the pressure is in your face. He held on to the ball, that's it lol.

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25 minutes ago, gtalk12 said:

 

Bc it was enough time to get rid of the ball when the pressure is in your face. He held on to the ball, that's it lol.

and you base this off?

Edited by Tru11
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1 minute ago, Tru11 said:

do you have any data that supports that 2 seconds is enough to complete a 5 or 7 step dropback and throw the ball?

I tried desperately to access all that without have to pay to subscribe. That number I used was his average time getting the ball out. That play where he took the loss for 12 yards after watching the play was minimum 3 seconds with a defender he clearly saw from the beginning which made him continue to back peddle.

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1 minute ago, gtalk12 said:

I tried desperately to access all that without have to pay to subscribe. That number I used was his average time getting the ball out. That play where he took the loss for 12 yards after watching the play was minimum 3 seconds with a defender he clearly saw from the beginning which made him continue to back peddle.

im quite confident that after he took the snap and started his 7 step dropback , he was looking at his targets and not how the o-line was blocking.

that said on a 7 step back you should have more times then 2 seconds before a defender is in your face......

 

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Ryan was done his drop, saw the pressure, ran right, out-ran his blocker, the rusher shed and got him.

He did have that split-second to decide to throw it, throw it away, and/or climb the pocket to escape 

THBhbb

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you dont see a guy coming from his blind side and 1 coming up the middle at pretty much the same right after he was done with his drop?
not sure where you wanted him climb the pocket to be honest, nor did i see anyone open , nor do i think its a wise idea to attempt a pass while going backwards with a defender all over you.
i mean you actually see a defender running to the sidelines so throwing it away seems very risky....

but before we continue i would like to know if you guys actually believe what you are saying.

cause i dont want to hear any troll accusations every time i bring this up when flacco is under pressure and its a negative play.
lord knows if we loose wagner and dont upgrade this o-line its bound to happen with marty pass happy ways.

if you guys actually think that a split second is enough to see pressure , evade and make a decision to throw it all within that time span then i can live that.
 

 

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4 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

you dont see a guy coming from his blind side and 1 coming up the middle at pretty much the same right after he was done with his drop?
not sure where you wanted him climb the pocket to be honest, nor did i see anyone open , nor do i think its a wise idea to attempt a pass while going backwards with a defender all over you.
i mean you actually see a defender running to the sidelines so throwing it away seems very risky....

but before we continue i would like to know if you guys actually believe what you are saying.

cause i dont want to hear any troll accusations every time i bring this up when flacco is under pressure and its a negative play.
lord knows if we loose wagner and dont upgrade this o-line its bound to happen with marty pass happy ways.

if you guys actually think that a split second is enough to see pressure , evade and make a decision to throw it all within that time span then i can live that.

He had space if he would've stepped forward rather than run to his right. He out-ran his blocker and it got him hit. The defender in the middle was being double-teamed and was neutralized, his blind-side rusher was on the ground.

As to anyone being open, that's on play-design/selection and the WRs I guess.

Can see it again from this angle - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7JH-Newv6Y

Outside of turning the ball over, the last thing the Falcons could afford was a 12-yard sack. For great plays made (or disasterous plays avoided) under pressure in a Super Bowl, look no further than your boy Joe Flacco! At the 1:47, 4:39, and 9:04 marks - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKNj4XHGDv0

I think that it IS enough time to react to the pressure, yes, we see this all the time in the NFL. It's almost instinctual with these guys, sometimes. Is it fair to ask or could I expect to do it? Absolutely not. You always hear it's a game of inches, though.

 

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2 hours ago, Tru11 said:

you dont see a guy coming from his blind side and 1 coming up the middle at pretty much the same right after he was done with his drop?
not sure where you wanted him climb the pocket to be honest, nor did i see anyone open , nor do i think its a wise idea to attempt a pass while going backwards with a defender all over you.
i mean you actually see a defender running to the sidelines so throwing it away seems very risky....

but before we continue i would like to know if you guys actually believe what you are saying.

cause i dont want to hear any troll accusations every time i bring this up when flacco is under pressure and its a negative play.
lord knows if we loose wagner and dont upgrade this o-line its bound to happen with marty pass happy ways.


if you guys actually think that a split second is enough to see pressure , evade and make a decision to throw it all within that time span then i can live that.
 

 

 

Don't think for a second I don't have a full clip for Flacco. I apologize if it seems in anyway that I only see Ryans mistakes as opposed to the self titled "elite" Joe Flacco

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2 hours ago, berad said:

He had space if he would've stepped forward rather than run to his right. He out-ran his blocker and it got him hit. The defender in the middle was being double-teamed and was neutralized, his blind-side rusher was on the ground.

As to anyone being open, that's on play-design/selection and the WRs I guess.

Can see it again from this angle - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7JH-Newv6Y

Outside of turning the ball over, the last thing the Falcons could afford was a 12-yard sack. For great plays made (or disasterous plays avoided) under pressure in a Super Bowl, look no further than your boy Joe Flacco! At the 1:47, 4:39, and 9:04 marks - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKNj4XHGDv0

I think that it IS enough time to react to the pressure, yes, we see this all the time in the NFL. It's almost instinctual with these guys, sometimes. Is it fair to ask or could I expect to do it? Absolutely not. You always hear it's a game of inches, though.

 

 

I would have been able to save so much time had I known it was ok to post links lol

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3 hours ago, gtalk12 said:

 

I would have been able to save so much time had I known it was ok to post links lol

Of course you may post links BUT

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In other words, anything you link to must also comply with our rules.  We frequently run into problems with highlight videos that have obscene background music.  Don't make that mistake.

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10 hours ago, berad said:

He had space if he would've stepped forward rather than run to his right. He out-ran his blocker and it got him hit. The defender in the middle was being double-teamed and was neutralized, his blind-side rusher was on the ground.

As to anyone being open, that's on play-design/selection and the WRs I guess.

Can see it again from this angle - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7JH-Newv6Y

Outside of turning the ball over, the last thing the Falcons could afford was a 12-yard sack. For great plays made (or disasterous plays avoided) under pressure in a Super Bowl, look no further than your boy Joe Flacco! At the 1:47, 4:39, and 9:04 marks - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKNj4XHGDv0

I think that it IS enough time to react to the pressure, yes, we see this all the time in the NFL. It's almost instinctual with these guys, sometimes. Is it fair to ask or could I expect to do it? Absolutely not. You always hear it's a game of inches, though.

 

that angle is a slow motion zoomed in replay.....

yeah a guy like rodgers has the instincts to make such a play but he is also about the only guy who can do just that.

matt ryan has never been that type of guy so expecting him to become one is not fair at all.

for the record a guy is not neutralized when is in the backfield sacking the QB lol.
the other rushers who got stood up at the LOS where neutralized.

these 2 rushers had beaten their man badly.

if anyone is to blame its them TBH but quite frankly id still say it was a bad play call followed by an even worse one where the o-line got beat again and called for holding.

im trying to hint at the o-line getting beat and bad play calling....
lets not forget no receiver open as well.

pretty sure these where well used excuses this past season for us and are pretty much recurring excuses.

quite curious what has matt ryan done to you guys that for him this is not even considered and he should shoulder all the blame?

Yeah flacco was impressive on the 4 game SB run but lets not pretend there have not been quite a few other games where he lost or almost lost us games in similiar situations and the theme has pretty much always been that it was never all his fault..

Edited by Tru11
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6 hours ago, Tru11 said:

that angle is a slow motion zoomed in replay.....

yeah a guy like rodgers has the instincts to make such a play but he is also about the only guy who can do just that.

matt ryan has never been that type of guy so expecting him to become one is not fair at all.

for the record a guy is not neutralized when is in the backfield sacking the QB lol.
the other rushers who got stood up at the LOS where neutralized.

these 2 rushers had beaten their man badly.

if anyone is to blame its them TBH but quite frankly id still say it was a bad play call followed by an even worse one where the o-line got beat again and called for holding.

im trying to hint at the o-line getting beat and bad play calling....
lets not forget no receiver open as well.

pretty sure these where well used excuses this past season for us and are pretty much recurring excuses.

quite curious what has matt ryan done to you guys that for him this is not even considered and he should shoulder all the blame?

Yeah flacco was impressive on the 4 game SB run but lets not pretend there have not been quite a few other games where he lost or almost lost us games in similiar situations and the theme has pretty much always been that it was never all his fault..

Okay, there were two 'middle' rushers, I was referring to the one who is seen being double-teamed and blocked, obviously not Trey Flowers who makes the sack. That's where there was space in the pocket, which you had asked.

Who says Matt Ryan shoulders all the blame? That's pretty hyperbolic. The coordinator didn't put him in a good spot and he didn't make the best decisions/actions. It falls on all the team, including the league OPOY and MVP QB. He is not above it, nor is Joe Flacco when things go awry.

Can you justify the results? Sure.

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18 hours ago, berad said:

Ryan was done his drop, saw the pressure, ran right, out-ran his blocker, the rusher shed and got him.

He did have that split-second to decide to throw it, throw it away, and/or climb the pocket to escape 

THBhbb

Really difficult to justify throwing it away there on the move because if it doesn't hit the LoS, that's a loss of 15 yards, loss of downs, and the clock stops.

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1 minute ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Really difficult to justify throwing it away there on the move because if it doesn't hit the LoS, that's a loss of 15 yards, loss of downs, and the clock stops.

Why would he not be able to get it past the LOS?

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5 minutes ago, berad said:

Why would he not be able to get it past the LOS?

Could be difficult with someone on your back pulling you backwards... He isn't the most powerful quarterback.

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46 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Could be difficult with someone on your back pulling you backwards... He isn't the most powerful quarterback.

He had some time when he was running to his right but, yeah, trying to get rid of the ball at that last moment is foolhardy

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40 minutes ago, berad said:

He had some time when he was running to his right but, yeah, trying to get rid of the ball at that last moment is foolhardy

It was really just a great defensive play by the Pats more than a poor play by the Falcons

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2 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

It was really just a great defensive play by the Pats more than a poor play by the Falcons

True, but there is that other side

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1 hour ago, gtalk12 said:

did I just get negative bc I said Flacco isn't Elite?

 

lol

Is Matt Ryan elite?   :D

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I'm skeptical of this report. That said, if it's true, good thing they didn't. That Flacco/Rice 1-2 pick was easily one of the most important pair of draft selections in Ravens history, maybe THE most important outside of Lewis/Ogden.

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Just for the purpose of objectivity, no price is too expensive for a franchise QB. So if the Ravens traded a whole draft class for Ryan then yes it would have been a good move. Turns out we didn't have to and landed Flacco but that's all in hind sight. 

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I would have liked to see the Ravens give up the draft to get Julio Jones for Flacco to grow with and develop together. The Falcons gave up some stuff to get Julio and I would say it was definitely worth it for both him and Ryan.

Edited by ALSKAN RAVEN FAN
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