Ravens were about to give entire 2008 draft for Ryan

[rmcjacket23]

8 minutes ago, Purple_City39 said:

Not I.  I'm a huge Flacco fan, but his first two playoff seasons were abysmal overall.  Minus some good play in spot moments against the Titans, he was pure trash in the post season as a rookie.  I give him a pass in 2009 due to that really bad hip bruising he had that reportedly kept him from even sitting on the team bus at one point, but I don't know how anybody can look at those five games and say he performed admirably when we've seen rookie QBs, both before and after 08, not look that bad in their first playoff games

You are correct. 

His first two seasons (08-09), he didn't have a single playoff game (5 of them) where he could even vaguely be described as good. He played pretty well against KC in 2010 wildcard round, but was terrible against Pittsburgh the next week. Even his first playoff game in 2011, against the Texans at home, was nothing spectacular. 

He played 9 playoff games in his first four years, and I'd say two of them he was actually good... KC in 2010 and NE in 2011. The other games he was either just there to hand the ball off or was actually hurting the team. 

He has been very good in every playoff game since the 2011 AFC title game, though, which is a solid 7 game stretch. You could put that stretch up there with any QB stretch in a long, long time.

[gtalk12]

10 hours ago, Tru11 said:

Ryan got them in FG range twice besides throwing for that TD.

how in your world did he manage that if he could not move the chains?

 

 

One was a recovered on side kick........and after some good throws to Gabriel and that catch by Julio he took a sack and put them out of field goal range....

 

 

[BmoreBird22]

3 hours ago, Tank 92 said:

You wrote what you wrote in response to me saying the Ravens ended up with the right guy between Flacco and Ryan.  In no way did you frame it that way when you first made the statement. But yeah,  OK.  lol

And on your side note; I think most would say Joe performed admirably early on in the playoffs considering he was so inexperienced and had zero time as an apprentice behind an NFL franchise QB.   

Did I ever say that, though, directly? If I ever said Joe was just mediocre (after several times saying I love Joe), please, let me know.

So, what we basically see is that Joe had a ton of time to play behind a great line, with a running game, and top defense to grow into a playoff quarterback and become he was, but Ryan doesn't get a pass for having less playoff experience or a worse overall team for his early career when discussing playoff success?

[Tank 92]

1 hour ago, Purple_City39 said:

Not I.  I'm a huge Flacco fan, but his first two playoff seasons were abysmal overall.  Minus some good play in spot moments against the Titans, he was pure trash in the post season as a rookie.  I give him a pass in 2009 due to that really bad hip bruising he had that reportedly kept him from even sitting on the team bus at one point, but I don't know how anybody can look at those five games and say he performed admirably when we've seen rookie QBs, both before and after 08, not look that bad in their first playoff games

hmmm......school me. What rookie QBs before and after 08 looked better in their first playoff games? 

Edited February 13 by Tank 92

[Tank 92]

34 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

 

So, what we basically see is that Joe had a ton of time to play behind a great line, with a running game, and top defense to grow into a playoff quarterback and become he was, but Ryan doesn't get a pass for having less playoff experience or a worse overall team for his early career when discussing playoff success?

Let's remove names and ask the question objectively.

Should an 8 year veteran QB that was named the league's MVP and plays with the league's #1 ranked offense get a pass for failing when it counted most? In the final quarter of the final game of the tournament?  

No need to answer and that's pretty much all I have to say on the subject. 

[BmoreBird22]

6 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

Let's remove names and ask the question objectively.

Should an 8 year veteran QB that was named the league's MVP and plays with the league's #1 ranked offense get a pass for failing when it counted most? In the final quarter of the final game of the tournament?  

No need to answer and that's pretty much all I have to say on the subject. 

But he didn't fail when he put them into field goal range twice...

[Purple_City39]

31 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

hmmm......school me. What rookie QBs before and after 08 looked better in their first playoff games? 

Okay so just to be clear, Joe's rookie playoff numbers were 44% in completions, 146 yards per game, 1 TD, and 3 INTs in three full games.  In all honesty, you'd be hard pressed to find a rookie QB that had a worse playoff performance.  Off the top of my head, I know Ben Roethlisberger, Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan, and Dak Prescott had better performances.  These are my "I didn't double check" players

Now, I'd also venture to guess Andy Dalton (sadly), Andrew Luck, and  Mark Sanchez (he was clutch in the playoffs for NY from what I recall) were all better as rookies also.  And after checking these out, I'd say they were better also.  Sanchez can't really be argued.  Luck and Dalton can to an extent, but not to me since both had higher completion percentages and yards per game.  There 0 TD percentage does fall below Joe's .333% though so that's something.

I'd venture to guess not many rookie QBs even make the playoffs, but I also doubt you'll see a performance as bad as Joe's for awhile.

[Tru11]

1 hour ago, gtalk12 said:

 

One was a recovered on side kick........and after some good throws to Gabriel and that catch by Julio he took a sack and put them out of field goal range....

 

 

so he did move the chains to get them in range ?

[Tru11]

34 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

Let's remove names and ask the question objectively.

Should an 8 year veteran QB that was named the league's MVP and plays with the league's #1 ranked offense get a pass for failing when it counted most? In the final quarter of the final game of the tournament?  

No need to answer and that's pretty much all I have to say on the subject. 

pretty sure it was freeman who failed to pick up a block that caused the fumble.
pretty sure it was also shanahan messed up play calling that knocked them out of FG range when all they needed to do was run the ball and kick a FG.

since you brought up being objective , would you or would you not blame flacco rather then the supposed to blocker or OC?

 

[gtalk12]

17 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

so he did move the chains to get them in range ?

Once, and on that same drive got them out of it....

[gtalk12]

Atlanta ran the clock out at the end of the 3rd after the NE score. that was the drive that the offense was in field goal range. It was 2 and 11 they pass incomplete from NE 42 in field goal range as long as they can put together some yards to make it easier for their kicker. 3-11 Ryan takes a SACK for a loss of 9 yards and they punt.

 

NE scores field goal

 

Next drive was a 3 and out with a sack/Fumble

 

NE scores

 

Next drive, this is the one with 2 HUGE plays, one was a run and the other was the toss to Gabriel. Once in field goal range, a failed run for a loss of 1, 2 and 11 SACK for -12 yards and brings them out of field goal range AGAIN, 3-23 pass incomplete...

 

So from the 6 min mark in the 3rd to the end of the 4th they managed 2 first downs (3 MAYBE, id have to look it over with time) and 2 of those came from 1 big run and a big pass. a total of 2 first downs is NOT moving the chains

[Tru11]

25 minutes ago, gtalk12 said:

Once, and on that same drive got them out of it....

so he did move the chains.

did he do that or did the OC do that with the play calling?
 

[gtalk12]

5 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

so he did move the chains.

did he do that or did the OC do that with the play calling?
 

Yes, the coach called a play to get sacked....twice

 

by the way if getting 2 first downs in an entire 4th quarter and part of the 3rd is moving the chains to you then cool, you are correct.

 

2 first downs........

Edited February 13 by gtalk12

[jimmypowder]

If Matty played in the AFC , he would have never made it to any playoff game. 

[Tru11]

2 minutes ago, gtalk12 said:

Yes, the coach called a play to get sacked....twice

do you blame flacco every time he gets sacked?

 

 

[gtalk12]

Just now, Tru11 said:

do you blame flacco every time he gets sacked?

 

 

 

if Flacco didn't have any time in the pocket then no, but when he has some decent amount of time I blame him. What is your point?

[Tru11]

14 minutes ago, gtalk12 said:

 

if Flacco didn't have any time in the pocket then no, but when he has some decent amount of time I blame him. What is your point?

what do you consider a decent amount of time?

on the sack and fumble , it was a free runner with him having no time to do anything because freeman missed the block.
the sack for a loss he was on the ground when 3 seconds passed.

both plays he had a defender on him barely 2 seconds after the snap.

so you think 2 seconds is a decent amount of time for a QB to do a 5 and 7 step drop back?

my point seems pretty clear now tbh...

Edited February 13 by Tru11

[Tank 92]

1 hour ago, Purple_City39 said:

Okay so just to be clear, Joe's rookie playoff numbers were 44% in completions, 146 yards per game, 1 TD, and 3 INTs in three full games.  In all honesty, you'd be hard pressed to find a rookie QB that had a worse playoff performance.  Off the top of my head, I know Ben Roethlisberger, Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan, and Dak Prescott had better performances.  These are my "I didn't double check" players

Now, I'd also venture to guess Andy Dalton (sadly), Andrew Luck, and  Mark Sanchez (he was clutch in the playoffs for NY from what I recall) were all better as rookies also.  And after checking these out, I'd say they were better also.  Sanchez can't really be argued.  Luck and Dalton can to an extent, but not to me since both had higher completion percentages and yards per game.  There 0 TD percentage does fall below Joe's .333% though so that's something.

I'd venture to guess not many rookie QBs even make the playoffs, but I also doubt you'll see a performance as bad as Joe's for awhile.

lol......you got me. I didn't look at the stats but only remembered winning those early playoff games and the tough luck against the steelers in the AFCG. 

[Purple_City39]

14 hours ago, Tank 92 said:

lol......you got me. I didn't look at the stats but only remembered winning those early playoff games and the tough luck against the steelers in the AFCG. 

No Problem.  In all honesty, I primarily remember how bad he was in that AFC Championship game because I unfortunately know a few Steelers fans who wouldn't let me forget that game (or the 2010 one) until 2014.  No exaggeration here.  I've also had a debate on rookie QBs earlier this year with a Cowboys fan so I've recently researched the numbers. 

I was surprised (when I had the rookie QB debate) about the Titans game though after seeing the numbers.  For some reason, I remember Joe being better in that one

[redrum52]

On 2/13/2017 at 2:23 PM, rmcjacket23 said:

You are correct. 

His first two seasons (08-09), he didn't have a single playoff game (5 of them) where he could even vaguely be described as good. He played pretty well against KC in 2010 wildcard round, but was terrible against Pittsburgh the next week. Even his first playoff game in 2011, against the Texans at home, was nothing spectacular. 

He played 9 playoff games in his first four years, and I'd say two of them he was actually good... KC in 2010 and NE in 2011. The other games he was either just there to hand the ball off or was actually hurting the team. 

He has been very good in every playoff game since the 2011 AFC title game, though, which is a solid 7 game stretch. You could put that stretch up there with any QB stretch in a long, long time.

I might be alone in this, but I thought he played well against the Texans.  Nothing special, true, but that was a tough defense and he came through.  Could have played better, but I can't say it was a bad game.  

[BmoreBird22]

1 hour ago, redrum52 said:

I might be alone in this, but I thought he played well against the Texans.  Nothing special, true, but that was a tough defense and he came through.  Could have played better, but I can't say it was a bad game.  

I don't think he did enough to win the game. He really just capitalized on mistakes and didn't mess up.

[redrum52]

24 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I don't think he did enough to win the game. He really just capitalized on mistakes and didn't mess up.

I somewhat agree and we probably lose if it's not TJ Yates or whoever was back there at qb, but that was a tough defense.  If I remember correctly, wrs were locked up and he was constantly pressured/hit.  Dont remember the run game doing much either.  Might have only seen the game twice tho.

 

You and @Tru11 are fighting a fight that will get you no where, by the way.

Edited February 14 by redrum52

[BmoreBird22]

26 minutes ago, redrum52 said:

I somewhat agree and we probably lose if it's not TJ Yates or whoever was back there at qb, but that was a tough defense.  If I remember correctly, wrs were locked up and he was constantly pressured/hit.  Dont remember the run game doing much either.  Might have only seen the game twice tho.

 

You and @Tru11 are fighting a fight that will get you no where, by the way.

Nope, excellent defense in a game where both Watt and Reed played excellent by putting tons of pressure on Flacco. Very good corner play, too. Jonathan Joseph was just picked up that offseason and he was always a thorn to Flacco.

I know it won't go anywhere, though.

[berad]

Thank goodness we didn't lose the SB and have to offer flimsy excuses to justify a collapse of epic proportions.

We made the plays when we needed them, the Falcons did not. Goes across all phases and players. Yes, including the QB position.

[redrum52]

24 minutes ago, berad said:

Thank goodness we didn't lose the SB and have to offer flimsy excuses to justify a collapse of epic proportions.

We made the plays when we needed them, the Falcons did not. Goes across all phases and players. Yes, including the QB position.

I just realized.  We would've given up the worst lead, up until the Falcons.  We would have been cheering the Falcons collapse, just the football world would be mocking the 08 draft class.  As you said good thing WE don't have to worry about that though.

[berad]

12 minutes ago, redrum52 said:

I just realized.  We would've given up the worst lead, up until the Falcons.  We would have been cheering the Falcons collapse, just the football world would be mocking the 08 draft class.  As you said good thing WE don't have to worry about that though.

Yup, ours was 22. I still subscribe to the flimsy/joke excuse that the power outage was done to make the game competitive again lol.

We had left the SB 51 party early, assuming the game was over after the failed onsides kick towards the end of the 3rd quarter - we had to make a long drive. Streamed the rest in the car and, man, were we wrong.

 

[Tru11]

22 hours ago, redrum52 said:

I somewhat agree and we probably lose if it's not TJ Yates or whoever was back there at qb, but that was a tough defense.  If I remember correctly, wrs were locked up and he was constantly pressured/hit.  Dont remember the run game doing much either.  Might have only seen the game twice tho.

 

You and @Tru11 are fighting a fight that will get you no where, by the way.

i know.

became clear when people actually want to argue that 2 seconds are a decent amount of time to complete a 5 or 7 step drop back.

 

 

[redrum52]

12 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

i know.

became clear when people actually want to argue that 2 seconds are a decent amount of time to complete a 5 or 7 step drop back.

 

 

Had this happened the other way, we already know how these discussions would go.

[Tru11]

17 minutes ago, redrum52 said:

Had this happened the other way, we already know how these discussions would go.

yup.

 

 

 

 

[gtalk12]

51 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

i know.

became clear when people actually want to argue that 2 seconds are a decent amount of time to complete a 5 or 7 step drop back.

 

 

 

8 hours ago, berad said:

Thank goodness we didn't lose the SB and have to offer flimsy excuses to justify a collapse of epic proportions.

We made the plays when we needed them, the Falcons did not. Goes across all phases and players. Yes, including the QB position.

 

This was the point I was making, whether the play calling was correct or not they put it in his hands and the rest was history. I do not understand what there is to talk about? #1 offense, MVP of the regular season, Pats dared the Falcons to beat them with Ryan.

 

And by the way, I do not have access to advanced stats unfortunately but one thing I did find interesting is that a couple of years ago with a worse offensive line Ryans average time in the pocket before being sacked/releasing the ball/ or running out the pocket was 2.73 seconds.