Ravens were about to give entire 2008 draft for Ryan

[BmoreBird22]

5 minutes ago, flynismo said:

I bet Pete Carroll was happy to see those play calls haha...take some of the attention away from him for most idiotic OC blunders in SB history. I mean seriously, you have Freeman and Coleman, you need to piss away some clock and you are already in FG range that would seal the win...hey, lets throw the ball!

I understand that they probably didn't feel running the ball would be effective (BB committed an extra defender to the strong side and dedicated a "spy" to play the cutback) which meant inside zone was going to be more effective, but you have Mack's fractured leg. 

HOWEVER, you don't even need yardage there. You literally just need to not lose 23 yards and burn clock. 

And what makes it even more baffling is that Schraeder, I believe, went out on that drive or not too long before. Why is Shanahan calling deep drops out of the shotgun? Sure, it allows Ryan to see the field better, but it also puts him deeper down field if he's sacked and with a backup in at RT and an injured C, you better believe that's a really high percentage chance of happening.

This was... I just don't understand.

[flynismo]

5 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I understand that they probably didn't feel running the ball would be effective (BB committed an extra defender to the strong side and dedicated a "spy" to play the cutback) which meant inside zone was going to be more effective, but you have Mack's fractured leg. 

HOWEVER, you don't even need yardage there. You literally just need to not lose 23 yards and burn clock. 

And what makes it even more baffling is that Schraeder, I believe, went out on that drive or not too long before. Why is Shanahan calling deep drops out of the shotgun? Sure, it allows Ryan to see the field better, but it also puts him deeper down field if he's sacked and with a backup in at RT and an injured C, you better believe that's a really high percentage chance of happening.

This was... I just don't understand.

You know what though, gotta give it to Matty for taking the heat post-game and saying it was on him. Joe would have probably choke slammed the dude heh

[BmoreBird22]

3 minutes ago, flynismo said:

You know what though, gotta give it to Matty for taking the heat post-game and saying it was on him. Joe would have probably choke slammed the dude heh

I will say that is one very classy thing about both- They never throw anyone under the bus, no matter how much it really is someone else's fault.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

4 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I understand that they probably didn't feel running the ball would be effective (BB committed an extra defender to the strong side and dedicated a "spy" to play the cutback) which meant inside zone was going to be more effective, but you have Mack's fractured leg. 

HOWEVER, you don't even need yardage there. You literally just need to not lose 23 yards and burn clock. 

And what makes it even more baffling is that Schraeder, I believe, went out on that drive or not too long before. Why is Shanahan calling deep drops out of the shotgun? Sure, it allows Ryan to see the field better, but it also puts him deeper down field if he's sacked and with a backup in at RT and an injured C, you better believe that's a really high percentage chance of happening.

This was... I just don't understand.

The crazy thing too was the Pats first drive in that 4th qtr where they got down inside the 5 or 10 -- they settled for the FG. BB took the points knowing they needed to come away with 3 at some point. 

Yet the OC that's up multiple scores was still trying to put longsword in when all he needed was the dagger. 

It was insanity to keep throwing there. Kill a minute or more of clock there and the Pats probably don't come back. Get the 3 and they probably don't come back. 

Kill clock AND get those 3 and it's game over. 

If you're not confident in running the ball there for whatever insane reason, just take a freaking knee. 

 

I cannot for the life of me understand Shanahan's thinking there. Especially when everything that could go wrong was going wrong... and everything was going right for the Pats -- you've got to let your offense come off the field and your D go on the field on a positive. 

[BmoreBird22]

4 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

I cannot for the life of me understand Shanahan's thinking there. Especially when everything that could go wrong was going wrong... and everything was going right for the Pats -- you've got to let your offense come off the field and your D go on the field on a positive. 

There's really no reason to not run because you probably won't fumble (fumbles are such a huge rarity in the NFL) and the chances of losing as many yards as they did right there (23 in total) are so incredibly slim. 

I've said several times, but passing wasn't a huge deal for me because at least the sack kept the clock running and Bryant was the second best kicker in the NFL this year. My bigger issue was that he passed AGAIN. Just run a damn draw or something because on 3rd and 23, you're probably going to get at least four or five yards. 

I cannot understand for the life of me what Shanahan was thinking. It's like he was paid by New England to botch those calls.

[GhostofGrbac]

1 minute ago, BmoreBird22 said:

There's really no reason to not run because you probably won't fumble (fumbles are such a huge rarity in the NFL) and the chances of losing as many yards as they did right there (23 in total) are so incredibly slim. 

I've said several times, but passing wasn't a huge deal for me because at least the sack kept the clock running and Bryant was the second best kicker in the NFL this year. My bigger issue was that he passed AGAIN. Just run a damn draw or something because on 3rd and 23, you're probably going to get at least four or five yards. 

I cannot understand for the life of me what Shanahan was thinking. It's like he was paid by New England to botch those calls.

The Patriots actually called a TO after the sack. But still I agree with you about throwing it again. 3-23 chances are you're not getting that 1st down. Even if they didn't gain a yard running the ball, it's still a very manageable 51-52 yard FG attempt for Bryant. 

Ryan did complete the pass on 3-23 for 9 yards to Sanu, but was nullified due to Jake Matthews holding. If Matthews doesn't hold it's 4th down at the NE 26. A 42-43 yard FG attempt for Bryant is pretty automatic.

[frozen joe flacco fan]

13 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

So I guess Flacco didn't win the game. It was won by an Ed Reed interception, Jacoby Jones kickoff return, and an Upshaw forced fumble, all leading to 21 points. And then, it was Sam Koch who actually won the game by ensuring a kickoff was the final play of the game.

I beg your pardon but I didn't promise you a rose garden. I was simply correcting your inaccurate post. You said that Matty Ice Cream and his offense put them up by 25 and the defense collapsed. Its elementary, my dear Watson! That's not what happened. The Atlanta defense created two turnovers and scored a TD on a pic six.

Unlike Mattie Ice Cream, Joe Flacco was the MVP of a SB. If you are having Mattie envy, consider this. Which would you rather be --- a league MVP or a SB MVP/ To me, its a no brainer. That being said, while Joe was deservedly the SB MVP, I could just as easily awarded it to Anquan Boldin or Jacoby Jones. 

[Ravenseconbeast]

1 minute ago, frozen joe flacco fan said:

I beg your pardon but I didn't promise you a rose garden. I was simply correcting your inaccurate post. You said that Matty Ice Cream and his offense put them up by 25 and the defense collapsed. Its elementary, my dear Watson! That's not what happened. The Atlanta defense created two turnovers and scored a TD on a pic six.

Unlike Mattie Ice Cream, Joe Flacco was the MVP of a SB. If you are having Mattie envy, consider this. Which would you rather be --- a league MVP or a SB MVP/ To me, its a no brainer. That being said, while Joe was deservedly the SB MVP, I could just as easily awarded it to Anquan Boldin or Jacoby Jones. 

 

You could argue Jacoby Jones should have gotten MVP as well.  He got a +40 pass then juked 2 DBs to get in the endzone.   He also trashed ST from start to finish to the endzone.   

Matt Ryan was the best QB in the NFL and perhaps the best player this year.   There is really no arguing about that.   One mistake by either freeman/him costed the game to shift the momentum of the game.   Soon as Hightower swiped Ryans hand, I got a deja vu of what Troy Polamalu did with Flacco @ playoffs that costed us the road to SB.  

[BmoreBird22]

4 minutes ago, frozen joe flacco fan said:

I beg your pardon but I didn't promise you a rose garden. I was simply correcting your inaccurate post. You said that Matty Ice Cream and his offense put them up by 25 and the defense collapsed. Its elementary, my dear Watson! That's not what happened. The Atlanta defense created two turnovers and scored a TD on a pic six.

Unlike Mattie Ice Cream, Joe Flacco was the MVP of a SB. If you are having Mattie envy, consider this. Which would you rather be --- a league MVP or a SB MVP/ To me, its a no brainer. That being said, while Joe was deservedly the SB MVP, I could just as easily awarded it to Anquan Boldin or Jacoby Jones. 

Were they or were they not up by 25 points? Okay, fine, Matt Ryan didn't lead them to every single one of their 28 points; just 21. 

The Ravens defense created two turnovers and their special teams scored a touchdown. What's your point?

Or are you missing the point that it's a team game and Ryan wasn't to blame for the defense allowing over 250 yards and most of the Patriots points in the fourth quarter?

I don't really care who the SB MVP is, honestly. It's a quarterback driven award, so as long as you don't completely blow the game, you're going to win it. Despite having over 100 yards, three touchdowns (including the game winner), and a two point conversion, James White failed to win the MVP award. That tells you about all you need to know about how meaningless the award is.

[BmoreBird22]

3 minutes ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

You could argue Jacoby Jones should have gotten MVP as well.  He got a +40 pass then juked 2 DBs to get in the endzone.   He also trashed ST from start to finish to the endzone.   

Matt Ryan was the best QB in the NFL and perhaps the best player this year.   There is really no arguing about that.   One mistake by either freeman/him costed the game to shift the momentum of the game.   Soon as Hightower swiped Ryans hand, I got a deja vu of what Troy Polamalu did with Flacco @ playoffs that costed us the road to SB.  

I think the play you're thinking of was a regular season game at the end of the season, not the playoffs, but we could be thinking of different plays. Not entirely sure.

[frozen joe flacco fan]

2 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Were they or were they not up by 25 points? Okay, fine, Matt Ryan didn't lead them to every single one of their 28 points; just 21. 

The Ravens defense created two turnovers and their special teams scored a touchdown. What's your point?

Or are you missing the point that it's a team game and Ryan wasn't to blame for the defense allowing over 250 yards and most of the Patriots points in the fourth quarter?

I don't really care who the SB MVP is, honestly. It's a quarterback driven award, so as long as you don't completely blow the game, you're going to win it. Despite having over 100 yards, three touchdowns (including the game winner), and a two point conversion, James White failed to win the MVP award. That tells you about all you need to know about how meaningless the award is.

Don't take things so personally, BmoreBird22! It was a collapse. You're absolutely right about that. However, the collapse started in the pressbox where Kyle Shanahan was calling the plays in the second half. His ego got the best of him and he just lost sight of the objective, which is to win the game Instead, he was trying to run up the score when that was not necessary. It came back to haunt him as it usually does in similar circumstances. I don't blame the collapse on Matt Ryan or the Atlanta defense. I blame it on the coaching. As so many of our games went this season, this game was lost by the Falcons as opposed to being won by the Patriots. Agree? 

[GhostofGrbac]

4 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Were they or were they not up by 25 points? Okay, fine, Matt Ryan didn't lead them to every single one of their 28 points; just 21. 

The Ravens defense created two turnovers and their special teams scored a touchdown. What's your point?

Or are you missing the point that it's a team game and Ryan wasn't to blame for the defense allowing over 250 yards and most of the Patriots points in the fourth quarter?

I don't really care who the SB MVP is, honestly. It's a quarterback driven award, so as long as you don't completely blow the game, you're going to win it. Despite having over 100 yards, three touchdowns (including the game winner), and a two point conversion, James White failed to win the MVP award. That tells you about all you need to know about how meaningless the award is.

Well said. 

If the Ravens D gave up a 25 point lead you know damn well the D is getting blamed for the loss. But the Falcons D does and it's Ryan's fault? Why is it different?

[hen826957]

I just wish we could swap wide recievers for the Falcons and we will show how business is done LOL. 

[EdTheMythicalOne]

7 hours ago, flynismo said:

Well, you have to keep in mind that back in early 2008, Ryan had already been enshrined in the HOF. Kind of the way Luck is already in the HOF.

To be honest, yes, we can say that would have been idiotic of us, but on the other hand, I thought Ryan was going to be a bust (and Flacco the best QB in the class -- yes, I thought these things BEFORE the draft). Point is, it's all opinion. If you feel that strongly about a guy, especially one who was as "pro ready" as Ryan was and we were in win now mode, you do what it takes to get him...within reason.

I think giving up your entire draft for one player is well outside of the realm of reason. You are cashing in all of your chips on something you aren't sure of and you certainly can't afford to miss on a 1st round QB that is supposed to be the franchise holder. You are also giving up any chance of finding other talent to help your team succeed in that process and is a completely idiotic way to try to build a franchise. I can't believe Ditka did that move...and for a RB to boot.

Even the revised picks that were in discussion in my opinion was too much for just one guy.

[flynismo]

4 hours ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

I think giving up your entire draft for one player is well outside of the realm of reason. You are cashing in all of your chips on something you aren't sure of and you certainly can't afford to miss on a 1st round QB that is supposed to be the franchise holder. You are also giving up any chance of finding other talent to help your team succeed in that process and is a completely idiotic way to try to build a franchise. I can't believe Ditka did that move...and for a RB to boot.

Even the revised picks that were in discussion in my opinion was too much for just one guy.

I agree, I think an entire draft, a la Ricky Williams trade, is just...well, stupid.

On the other hand, look at it like this...this was at a time when Ray and Ed were in their primes and our defense was the most feared in the league. With just a competent QB like McNair, we already had a 13 win season with him at the helm before the injury plagued 07 season and were arguably the best team in the NFL. Had Ryan turned out to be as great as we thought he was...12 win seasons would be mildly disappointing.

[trevorsteadman]

12 hours ago, frozen joe flacco fan said:

I beg your pardon but I didn't promise you a rose garden. I was simply correcting your inaccurate post. You said that Matty Ice Cream and his offense put them up by 25 and the defense collapsed. Its elementary, my dear Watson! That's not what happened. The Atlanta defense created two turnovers and scored a TD on a pic six.

Unlike Mattie Ice Cream, Joe Flacco was the MVP of a SB. If you are having Mattie envy, consider this. Which would you rather be --- a league MVP or a SB MVP/ To me, its a no brainer. That being said, while Joe was deservedly the SB MVP, I could just as easily awarded it to Anquan Boldin or Jacoby Jones. 

While you could argue Jacoby Jones as MVP.... I don't see a case for Boldin really. But you are going to give the award to your quarterback when he had 11 touchdowns and no interceptions in the playoff run. He effectively spread the ball around to everyone.

[ratedr]

12 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Were they or were they not up by 25 points? Okay, fine, Matt Ryan didn't lead them to every single one of their 28 points; just 21. 

The Ravens defense created two turnovers and their special teams scored a touchdown. What's your point?

Or are you missing the point that it's a team game and Ryan wasn't to blame for the defense allowing over 250 yards and most of the Patriots points in the fourth quarter?

I don't really care who the SB MVP is, honestly. It's a quarterback driven award, so as long as you don't completely blow the game, you're going to win it. Despite having over 100 yards, three touchdowns (including the game winner), and a two point conversion, James White failed to win the MVP award. That tells you about all you need to know about how meaningless the award is.

A huge part of the Falcons having a huge lead was the defense playing lights out for the first 3 quarters. The Falcons offense simply stopped scoring. But as with frozen joe, I don't blame any one player. Kyle Shanahan blew the game for the Falcons.

[Purple_City39]

11 minutes ago, trevorsteadman said:

While you could argue Jacoby Jones as MVP.... I don't see a case for Boldin really. But you are going to give the award to your quarterback when he had 11 touchdowns and no interceptions in the playoff run. He effectively spread the ball around to everyone.

I've always thought the revisionist history by Ravens fans in regards to Boldin was interesting.  104 yards and a TD in the superbowl is great for a WR, it's never been Superbowl MVP worthy.  I used to think fans viewed his total playoff performance when saying he deserved MVP, but 380 yards and 4 TDs in 4 games as a WR doesn't hold a candle to 1140 yards, 11 TDs, and 0 INTs as a QB.

Jacoby you could make a good argument for though, for the superbowl specifically.  290 all purpose yards and 2 TDs is crazy good

[trevorsteadman]

59 minutes ago, Purple_City39 said:

I've always thought the revisionist history by Ravens fans in regards to Boldin was interesting.  104 yards and a TD in the superbowl is great for a WR, it's never been Superbowl MVP worthy.  I used to think fans viewed his total playoff performance when saying he deserved MVP, but 380 yards and 4 TDs in 4 games as a WR doesn't hold a candle to 1140 yards, 11 TDs, and 0 INTs as a QB.

Jacoby you could make a good argument for though, for the superbowl specifically.  290 all purpose yards and 2 TDs is crazy good

Yeah I totally agree here. Both Flacco and Jones played lights out... But in that scenario you give it to the guy who has been more consistent throughout the entire playoffs and the player you think will be with your franchise longer and the more valuable player.

[frozen joe flacco fan]

3 hours ago, flynismo said:

I agree, I think an entire draft, a la Ricky Williams trade, is just...well, stupid.

On the other hand, look at it like this...this was at a time when Ray and Ed were in their primes and our defense was the most feared in the league. With just a competent QB like McNair, we already had a 13 win season with him at the helm before the injury plagued 07 season and were arguably the best team in the NFL. Had Ryan turned out to be as great as we thought he was...12 win seasons would be mildly disappointing.

That settles it then! We won't trade our entire 2017 draft picks to Atlanta for Mattie Ice so he can be Joe's back up. End of paragraph.

[frozen joe flacco fan]

1 hour ago, Purple_City39 said:

I've always thought the revisionist history by Ravens fans in regards to Boldin was interesting.  104 yards and a TD in the superbowl is great for a WR, it's never been Superbowl MVP worthy.  I used to think fans viewed his total playoff performance when saying he deserved MVP, but 380 yards and 4 TDs in 4 games as a WR doesn't hold a candle to 1140 yards, 11 TDs, and 0 INTs as a QB.

Jacoby you could make a good argument for though, for the superbowl specifically.  290 all purpose yards and 2 TDs is crazy good

 

31 minutes ago, trevorsteadman said:

Yeah I totally agree here. Both Flacco and Jones played lights out... But in that scenario you give it to the guy who has been more consistent throughout the entire playoffs and the player you think will be with your franchise longer and the more valuable player.

No argument here. The logic is too sound! 

[BmoreBird22]

5 hours ago, ratedr said:

A huge part of the Falcons having a huge lead was the defense playing lights out for the first 3 quarters. The Falcons offense simply stopped scoring. But as with frozen joe, I don't blame any one player. Kyle Shanahan blew the game for the Falcons.

it was an absolute perfect storm and then the defense just played too many snaps. Jarrett and Freeney were on fire, but Jarrett is 6'0" and 300 and Freeney is 37. Expecting them to go for like 60+ snaps isn't realistic. 

The sad thing with the offense is they were in field goal position twice and were forced to punt. 

[terrynjulia03]

I really think it was a team who has never before this year been in a do or die situation. Their HC has before and he chocked then also. What was that scene in the movie Relacements. You're suddenly in quicksand and he more you try and fight the more it swallows you? That's what happened. 

[ravensnick]

3 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

it was an absolute perfect storm and then the defense just played too many snaps. Jarrett and Freeney were on fire, but Jarrett is 6'0" and 300 and Freeney is 37. Expecting them to go for like 60+ snaps isn't realistic. 

The sad thing with the offense is they were in field goal position twice and were forced to punt. 

Yeah, lack of defensive depth killed them.

[Tank 92]

On 2/7/2017 at 7:55 PM, GhostofGrbac said:

 

Ryan did complete the pass on 3-23 for 9 yards to Sanu, but was nullified due to Jake Matthews holding. If Matthews doesn't hold it's 4th down at the NE 26. A 42-43 yard FG attempt for Bryant is pretty automatic.

In reality the down should have been replayed as the off setting blatant face mask on the tackle went uncallled. 

[Tank 92]

On 2/7/2017 at 8:28 PM, GhostofGrbac said:

Well said. 

If the Ravens D gave up a 25 point lead you know damn well the D is getting blamed for the loss. But the Falcons D does and it's Ryan's fault? Why is it different?

Well, the major difference would be that the Ravens offense actually managed to get some first downs in the second half while running three times as many plays as the Falcons did against NE. They didn't score a bunch of points but it was enough and they at least gave the D some time off the field in the 4th quarter when it mattered most. 

What seemed to hurt the Ravens the most In the second half(besides the momentum robbing outage)was Ngata going down. It was like throwing a switch(whoops!) opening up the D. 

Edited February 9 by Tank 92

[Tru11]

2 hours ago, Tank 92 said:

Well, the major difference would be that the Ravens offense actually managed to get some first downs in the second half while running three times as many plays as the Falcons did against NE. They didn't score a bunch of points but it was enough and they at least gave the D some time off the field in the 4th quarter when it mattered most. Guess you could also add that the Ravens didn't turn the ball over as did the Falcons. 

What seemed to hurt the Ravens the most In the second half(besides the momentum robbing outage)was Ngata going down. It was like throwing a switch(whoops!) opening up the D. 

Rice fumbled it on the ravens 24 yard line and before that ginn returned a punt to the ravens 20.

lead to 10 points by the niners on such a short field

find it intresting that nobody remembers any of this happening to the offense and special teams after the lights went out....

[OUravensfan]

I can't believe all the Seahawks and Falcons had to do was run the ball and the Patriots only have 3 Super Bowls, the Patriots are one play away in each super bowl from a different outcome, they could easily be 0-7, and obviously some crazy happened in their losses as well.

Honestly this is the year that broke my spirit as a 27 year old fan whose seen every Raven game, why wouldn't NE be favorites next year? Bellicheck is unstoppable, they did this without Gronk. I'm sick, this is a sick joke, I'm still waiting to wake up.

Edited February 9 by OUravensfan

[usmccharles]

2 hours ago, OUravensfan said:

I can't believe all the Seahawks and Falcons had to do was run the ball and the Patriots only have 3 Super Bowls, the Patriots are one play away in each super bowl from a different outcome, they could easily be 0-7, and obviously some crazy happened in their losses as well.

Honestly this is the year that broke my spirit as a 27 year old fan whose seen every Raven game, why wouldn't NE be favorites next year? Bellicheck is unstoppable, they did this without Gronk. I'm sick, this is a sick joke, I'm still waiting to wake up.

They clearly are the favorites next year.   Now we just have to hope that the Browns dont give the Pats their 2 first round picks or some other ransom.  BB seems to be more about veterans who won't have a problem doing their job rather than a bunch of rookies,  but imagine If they picked up Garret and then one of the top CBs...I think we have at least three more years of this crap

[Tank 92]

4 hours ago, Tru11 said:

Rice fumbled it on the ravens 24 yard line.

My bad, corrected.