[News] Late For Work 2/2: Brandon Williams Will Consider Hometown Discount, But Asks 'Where Is The Love?'

[sizzlingdoom]

  4 hours ago, OzzieBisciotti said:

Let's hope Oz doesn't offend Brown with a lowball offer like he did with KO- that apparently pee'd off KO to the point where he didnt want to talk with us- he leaves and goes to the pro bowl- go figure.. every since average joe flacco took half our cap space,, Oz and DaCosta can't figure out how to keep a winning team- that's why we alwasy get these old receivers, hand me down corners, etc.. because we've also drafted so badly and don't have a foundation of younger players who can contribute- i feel badly for Harbs in a way, but he also has input into who he wants on the team as well- it's sad but looking true that we can't win anymore because of the leadership void of R Lewis and E Reed and even Pollard and Haloti- we're just a bunch of sofites now without any kind of defensive indentity- Flacco is nothing without these other leaders who led the team

There are now three camps of fans. The pragmatic ones, the sky is falling ones and a group that is somewhere in the middle because they understand the situation, but question some moves made by the FO and Harbs. 

First off, KO was being offered the most money in the league to play guard at $8.5 million a year, but I still think it was unclear whether that was to play LT or LG. I think it was LG, but that isn't important. KO got paid top 3 LT money. I think Ozzie could have tried to give a rebuttal offer of 10 a year, but KO seen that green and went running. 

We have been so pampered over the past decade and a Half because Ozzie had consistently either hit home runs on early picks that became legends like Lewis, JO, Reed, Suggs, Ngata, McAllister, RR, etc. But now we have had a few rough drafts where talent hasn't stuck and the fans now act as if we were the Browns. Be patient. One more very good draft like 16' and active FA period could easily make us a +10 win team. 

Flacco's development is discouraging and I don't think he is worth his contract, but the going rate for any half way competent QB is roughly $20 million a year and that was what Flacco got. Ozzie just likes kicking the can down the road though where he makes the deals cheap up front then back loads the deal where he expects restructures/cuts, but all that does is it gives us a boat load of dead cap space. That is why I pray he keeps Mosley's contract and others at consistent hits instead of ending up in cap hell.

I agree with all this. I'm one in the middle. Though a lot of people think I'm in the sky is falling category, bc I've pointed Flacco being overpaid, even if it is just by 2-4 mil per year. Our recent years and years of subpar ( to put it nicely) drafts, and now coaching. Never seen anything like the coaching this year. All 3 phases, it really was unreal. Clearly led by Harbs. Harbaugh's coaching this year is what bumped me from the pragmatic group to the middle. Doesn't represent what the Ravens want to represent, That's for sure. Or more importantly, any winning football team. We'll see if John does a 180, he has another chance.
One thing I question though, is your reference about Ozzie's counter offer. And obviously this is all speculation. But like the post you replied to said, he very well could've been so offended by the low ball offer, that he was going to leave no matter what. I mean the millions difference is minimal in the big picture. He's the best Guard in football. Him and Yanda. Bummer we couldn't keep KO. He's the neastiest lineman in the game right now, hands down.
I would hold off on calling the 16 draft very good yet. I would say good right now with a lot of potential for that to go up. Still nothing out of KC and Kufasi- KC might be a lost cause. We'll see. Everyone praised Lewis but he hasn't proven anything. We'll find out about him this year. Then I want to see what happens with Henry. I love the Dixon, Young, and Judon picks though. Stanley is a baller too.
Most importantly though, I agree, we can be a 10+ win team next year. I think 12+. Have to make a lot of right moves this offseason though. Regardless of whether the front office makes the right ones or not, there should be A LOT of moves this off season. There are plenty of people that should be cut to clear cap space. I'm not gonna list names cuz everyone has their preferences. But three moves I would love to see this offseason off the top of my head are getting 1. Getting BMarsh 2. Getting Cyprien and 3. Definitely grabbing a first round corner

[RavensDieHard21]

6 hours ago, sizzlingdoom said:

I agree with all this. I'm one in the middle. Though a lot of people think I'm in the sky is falling category, bc I've pointed Flacco being overpaid, even if it is just by 2-4 mil per year. Our recent years and years of subpar ( to put it nicely) drafts, and now coaching. Never seen anything like the coaching this year. All 3 phases, it really was unreal. Clearly led by Harbs. Harbaugh's coaching this year is what bumped me from the pragmatic group to the middle. Doesn't represent what the Ravens want to represent, That's for sure. Or more importantly, any winning football team. We'll see if John does a 180, he has another chance.
One thing I question though, is your reference about Ozzie's counter offer. And obviously this is all speculation. But like the post you replied to said, he very well could've been so offended by the low ball offer, that he was going to leave no matter what. I mean the millions difference is minimal in the big picture. He's the best Guard in football. Him and Yanda. Bummer we couldn't keep KO. He's the neastiest lineman in the game right now, hands down.
I would hold off on calling the 16 draft very good yet. I would say good right now with a lot of potential for that to go up. Still nothing out of KC and Kufasi- KC might be a lost cause. We'll see. Everyone praised Lewis but he hasn't proven anything. We'll find out about him this year. Then I want to see what happens with Henry. I love the Dixon, Young, and Judon picks though. Stanley is a baller too.
Most importantly though, I agree, we can be a 10+ win team next year. I think 12+. Have to make a lot of right moves this offseason though. Regardless of whether the front office makes the right ones or not, there should be A LOT of moves this off season. There are plenty of people that should be cut to clear cap space. I'm not gonna list names cuz everyone has their preferences. But three moves I would love to see this offseason off the top of my head are getting 1. Getting BMarsh 2. Getting Cyprien and 3. Definitely grabbing a first round corner

Ya I understand why people feel that way because I do more during the season than after, but coaching looked so iffy this year. I think a lot had to do with injuries and just the style of players we had. Not having a run game killed us in that early stretch of losses. Also not having depth at corner killed us too. Yes a pass rush could have helped, but there were a lot of plays where the ball leaves the QBs hand in a couple of seconds and our slow secondary just got torched when Smith leaves the game, or even when the opposite side of the field is targeted. 

Harbs needs better in game adjustments with his coordinators as the Patriots game was a nightmare and we continued to do the same things. 

We will have a strong impression of the 16' class next year, but if it produces at least 4 starters, which all play at a very solid level, especially at LT, Nickel CB, LG/RT and RB, then we will be fine. Even if you already throw out Bronson and KC, I still think Judon is very solid and Henry could be good too. That is 6 contributors from one class and that is just the depth we need. 

I really am praying we make an inquiry on Marshall because he is exactly what Flacco and this team needs. But will the jets part ways with him? They have a decent team, yet have a turnover machine at QB so they might not be in complete rebuild mode yet where they will let him walk. I really like Cyprien too because he will bring more speed to the position, but by no means would I get involved in a bidding war for him. 

Edited February 3 by RavensDieHard21

[Halshayeji]

On February 2, 2017 at 7:14 PM, The Greek said:

gilmore and camponaro are one and the same. injury prone. we need a te in case maxx isnt 100%

What a shame these 2 can't stay on the field. I really like both and especially Gilmore he has pro bowl potential but injuries just suck sometimes.

[rmcjacket23]

Williams wants to get paid but I am not sure he's as much of a force as Damon Harrison is or if he's worth that much money. Unlike some posters I have seen instances, often even, where Brandon collapses the pocket on a pass or even gets a free rush. The issue is it never amounts to much. He usually never finishes. Finding a run-plugging only NT shouldn't be too hard and in my opinion they are a dime a dozen. What you need is a guy that can disrupt plays. Ngata was that in his prime. Ngata was pretty quick for a guy as massive as he was and strong to boot. Williams is just strong. He's not agile or very fast even for his size.

I like Williams and I think he's a good player, I don't think he's an elite player though. He seems like he wants to be paid and that's his right. I just don't think he should be paid in Baltimore. I think we've got the talent behind him to plug in and play and not miss him too much. We've got Pierce, Henry, and Carl Davis all waiting in line.

40-50 million can be spread around to make a lot of areas on the team better.

We won't come close to that level of cap space.

[billiejean]

16 hours ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

Well your analysis of Williams to Ngata is spot on, that's why Ngata got $60 million under the cap conditions off 2011 and Williams will likely be in the $45 million range in 2017. Ngata was a generational talent and that is very hard to come by. 

I like pierce a lot and I am rooting for him, but the fans have this tendency to place so much trust and dedication to these young guys that have had limited snaps. We can't always try to justify letting go of player X because player Y made a handful of nice plays their rookie years. 

I definitely see what you are saying here but i just think it is much better to invest in pass rushers and DBs.  Its easier to find interior DTs than quality CBs and pass rushers.  And it dosent have to be just one guy that would make up for BWills loss, you could rotate guys in depending on the situation,   I would also like to say that Pierce is not the same as, D Brown, Shareece Write, Chris Matthews, Brent Urban (the guy blocked a kick last year and all of the sudden they were penciling him in as a game changer at DE) and even Alex Lewis (We really don't know how this guy is going to play next year with the limited sample size that he has played, but everyone is penciling him as the next MY the more optimistic fans are penciling him in at RT.  I think he will do well but I don't feel comfortable crowing him just yet.) Pierce did not just make "a handful of nice plays last year".  He came in as the 11th ranked DT in run defense in the entire league.  Not that this means much but his play in his rookie season is heads and shoulders above BWills.  Its clear he is a motivated good character kind of guy.  As a UDFA on day 1 he was one of the strongest players on the team,  The guys is a hard worker and I think he will make a fairly big jump next year especially because he came from a 1AA school.  It would be nice to keep BWill but we should stick to our guns as we usually do.  We can't afford to be dragged into a bidding war with a team that has 4 times the cap space that we do. I feel the same way about KO.  It would have been nice to keep him but he was overpayed.  And if both of your guards are the highest paid players on you OL you're going to have to try to fill in both tackle positions with either older FAs or younger draftees.  And that could be disastrous for Joe who doesn't have great pocket awareness and is susceptible to giving up strip sacks to rushers off the edge..  And similarly to the defensive side of the ball, it is easier to find interior offensive lineman than it is to find OTs.  And I have no doubt in my mind that if we payed KO we wouldn't be able to sign Mike Wallace who was a big part of our offensive success last season.  

[rmcjacket23]

  19 hours ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

Well your analysis of Williams to Ngata is spot on, that's why Ngata got $60 million under the cap conditions off 2011 and Williams will likely be in the $45 million range in 2017. Ngata was a generational talent and that is very hard to come by. 

I like pierce a lot and I am rooting for him, but the fans have this tendency to place so much trust and dedication to these young guys that have had limited snaps. We can't always try to justify letting go of player X because player Y made a handful of nice plays their rookie years. 

I definitely see what you are saying here but i just think it is much better to invest in pass rushers and DBs.  Its easier to find interior DTs than quality CBs and pass rushers.  And it dosent have to be just one guy that would make up for BWills loss, you could rotate guys in depending on the situation,   I would also like to say that Pierce is not the same as, D Brown, Shareece Write, Chris Matthews, Brent Urban (the guy blocked a kick last year and all of the sudden they were penciling him in as a game changer at DE) and even Alex Lewis (We really don't know how this guy is going to play next year with the limited sample size that he has played, but everyone is penciling him as the next MY the more optimistic fans are penciling him in at RT.  I think he will do well but I don't feel comfortable crowing him just yet.) Pierce did not just make "a handful of nice plays last year".  He came in as the 11th ranked DT in run defense in the entire league.  Not that this means much but his play in his rookie season is heads and shoulders above BWills.  Its clear he is a motivated good character kind of guy.  As a UDFA on day 1 he was one of the strongest players on the team,  The guys is a hard worker and I think he will make a fairly big jump next year especially because he came from a 1AA school.  It would be nice to keep BWill but we should stick to our guns as we usually do.  We can't afford to be dragged into a bidding war with a team that has 4 times the cap space that we do. I feel the same way about KO.  It would have been nice to keep him but he was overpayed.  And if both of your guards are the highest paid players on you OL you're going to have to try to fill in both tackle positions with either older FAs or younger draftees.  And that could be disastrous for Joe who doesn't have great pocket awareness and is susceptible to giving up strip sacks to rushers off the edge..  And similarly to the defensive side of the ball, it is easier to find interior offensive lineman than it is to find OTs.  And I have no doubt in my mind that if we payed KO we wouldn't be able to sign Mike Wallace who was a big part of our offensive success last season.  

The problem is finding good pass rushers and DBs to invest in. The really good one's practically never hit the FA market. You've got to draft them yourself and resign them when they are good.

The teams that go out and try to spend top dollar on Corners or DBs who hit the open market typically end up disappointed in the end.

[EdTheMythicalOne]

7 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

We won't come close to that level of cap space.

If we don't have that kind of cap space then how would they re-sign Williams in the first place? You do know that 40-50 million isn't all due in 1 year, right? That would be over a course of about 4-5 years. I think that around 10 mil/per can go to better places considering who we have on the team behind Williams and that I don't think Williams is a game changing type player at NT. Maybe in a 4-3 he'd do better but I don't think he's worth what the open market will likely give him considering there are some teams out there with needs to fill and money to spend big.

[billiejean]

11 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

The problem is finding good pass rushers and DBs to invest in. The really good one's practically never hit the FA market. You've got to draft them yourself and resign them when they are good.

The teams that go out and try to spend top dollar on Corners or DBs who hit the open market typically end up disappointed in the end.

Yea thats a vallid point.  And really its not only about DBs and Pass Rushers, I just think that if we sign BWill to a huge contract now its going to be difficult to resign anyone of the guys leaving next year or the year after that.  And I am sure the FO takes all of that into consideration.  This may be a flawed way of looking at the situation but I just feel like BWills sphere of influence is just so limited.  Not only to the middle of the field but also only on running plays.  And i know there are other factors at play there.  By taking on the double teams he gives the guys next to him more favorable match ups.  And he keeps the ILBs clean which allows them to flow to the ball faster.  I just think with Pierce on the team it would be wise to spend the money on some of the guys that are going to hit FA next year.  And I am not saying that Pierce is going to play as good as BWills next year.  I just don't think that the gap separating BWilll from Pierce is large enough to negativily impact the team on a consistent basis.  In other words it is negligible.  I don't think we will lose any games next year because Pierce is playing instead of BWill.  But what do I know?  There are some interesting options at cb this year that could come at a reasonable price.  But of course the reason they would come at a reasonable price is because they sucked last year. 

[TheConquerorWorm]

  2 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

The problem is finding good pass rushers and DBs to invest in. The really good one's practically never hit the FA market. You've got to draft them yourself and resign them when they are good.

The teams that go out and try to spend top dollar on Corners or DBs who hit the open market typically end up disappointed in the end.

Yea thats a vallid point.  And really its not only about DBs and Pass Rushers, I just think that if we sign BWill to a huge contract now its going to be difficult to resign anyone of the guys leaving next year or the year after that.  And I am sure the FO takes all of that into consideration.  This may be a flawed way of looking at the situation but I just feel like BWills sphere of influence is just so limited.  Not only to the middle of the field but also only on running plays.  And i know there are other factors at play there.  By taking on the double teams he gives the guys next to him more favorable match ups.  And he keeps the ILBs clean which allows them to flow to the ball faster.  I just think with Pierce on the team it would be wise to spend the money on some of the guys that are going to hit FA next year.  And I am not saying that Pierce is going to play as good as BWills next year.  I just don't think that the gap separating BWilll from Pierce is large enough to negativily impact the team on a consistent basis.  In other words it is negligible.  I don't think we will lose any games next year because Pierce is playing instead of BWill.  But what do I know?  There are some interesting options at cb this year that could come at a reasonable price.  But of course the reason they would come at a reasonable price is because they sucked last year. 

I hear ya but I disagree that the difference is negligible. Pierce was really good - playing behind (or) next to BWill but what happens when he's the main man? Pippen was a great player playing with Jordan - not so much when by himself. But the bigger issue is this - you're looking at just replacing one player for one player but this is a team and the d-line is a unit. How big of a difference is there between BWill + Pierce vs Pierce + ?? How big of a difference is there between Pierce and the next guy? What happens if Pierce get hurts? We saw what happened with the lack of depth behind Jimmy.

You basically have Pierce at the vet minimum for the next 3 years. If you pay BWill $10 million then you have both guys for a combined $11 million. I'd pay $11 million for TWO really good DT . You don't have to worry about that position again for 3 years even if 1 guy gets hurt.

Plus, you don't really have any of your FA that you need to spend money on next year (Urschel & Jernigan really) and the Ravens will finally have some good cap space even if they re-sign BWill & Wagner.

[RavensDieHard21]

2 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

The problem is finding good pass rushers and DBs to invest in. The really good one's practically never hit the FA market. You've got to draft them yourself and resign them when they are good.

The teams that go out and try to spend top dollar on Corners or DBs who hit the open market typically end up disappointed in the end.

Exactly. We need to draft the edge guys and corners. Signing Williams will not effect who we manage to draft.

[#Nevermore]

  5 hours ago, billiejean said:

  6 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

The problem is finding good pass rushers and DBs to invest in. The really good one's practically never hit the FA market. You've got to draft them yourself and resign them when they are good.

The teams that go out and try to spend top dollar on Corners or DBs who hit the open market typically end up disappointed in the end.

Yea thats a vallid point.  And really its not only about DBs and Pass Rushers, I just think that if we sign BWill to a huge contract now its going to be difficult to resign anyone of the guys leaving next year or the year after that.  And I am sure the FO takes all of that into consideration.  This may be a flawed way of looking at the situation but I just feel like BWills sphere of influence is just so limited.  Not only to the middle of the field but also only on running plays.  And i know there are other factors at play there.  By taking on the double teams he gives the guys next to him more favorable match ups.  And he keeps the ILBs clean which allows them to flow to the ball faster.  I just think with Pierce on the team it would be wise to spend the money on some of the guys that are going to hit FA next year.  And I am not saying that Pierce is going to play as good as BWills next year.  I just don't think that the gap separating BWilll from Pierce is large enough to negativily impact the team on a consistent basis.  In other words it is negligible.  I don't think we will lose any games next year because Pierce is playing instead of BWill.  But what do I know?  There are some interesting options at cb this year that could come at a reasonable price.  But of course the reason they would come at a reasonable price is because they sucked last year. 

I hear ya but I disagree that the difference is negligible. Pierce was really good - playing behind (or) next to BWill but what happens when he's the main man? Pippen was a great player playing with Jordan - not so much when by himself. But the bigger issue is this - you're looking at just replacing one player for one player but this is a team and the d-line is a unit. How big of a difference is there between BWill + Pierce vs Pierce + ?? How big of a difference is there between Pierce and the next guy? What happens if Pierce get hurts? We saw what happened with the lack of depth behind Jimmy.

You basically have Pierce at the vet minimum for the next 3 years. If you pay BWill $10 million then you have both guys for a combined $11 million. I'd pay $11 million for TWO really good DT . You don't have to worry about that position again for 3 years even if 1 guy gets hurt.

Plus, you don't really have any of your FA that you need to spend money on next year (Urschel & Jernigan really) and the Ravens will finally have some good cap space even if they re-sign BWill & Wagner.

I believe Pierce was an undrafted free agent. He is not on the vet minimum for the next 3 years. He is a restricted free agent this year and next year he will need to be paid.

[#Nevermore]

I like BW, but I would not be willing to pay top dollar for him. I would be fine with 40-43 million for four years. Anything over that is really overpaying. We have a lot of young guys on the D-line. We had injuries along the front last season. Carl Davis and Willie Henry didn't play. I think that rotation with help absorb the loss of Williams if that happens.

Also another question is what do we do with Michael Pierce next season? We will have to pay him as well. We can't pay both Williams and Pierce 40 million. Pierce is 24 and Williams is 27. Does that make a difference?

[rmcjacket23]

10 hours ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

If we don't have that kind of cap space then how would they re-sign Williams in the first place? You do know that 40-50 million isn't all due in 1 year, right? That would be over a course of about 4-5 years. I think that around 10 mil/per can go to better places considering who we have on the team behind Williams and that I don't think Williams is a game changing type player at NT. Maybe in a 4-3 he'd do better but I don't think he's worth what the open market will likely give him considering there are some teams out there with needs to fill and money to spend big.

1. Dumb question.

2. Pretty simple how they would re-sign him in the 1st place... who else would they spend the money on? Outside of Wagner (which they won't resign both) and Juice (who won't cost much), there's practically nobody else on the roster they'd spend the cap space they have on. 

Most likely, after all the cuts are done, we'd probably be in the $20-30M range. We're not going to go spend $25-30M in a single year cap space in FA... we never do. Last year was considered a big spending spree by FA standards for us, and we didn't spend close to that in cap space for a given year.

With that level space, we're not simply going to go buy like 10 players. We're going to make a strong effort to retain Williams, perhaps take a stab at keeping Wagner if that fails, and if neither of them works, then MAYBE we buy one relatively high priced FA (maybe in the $8-10M/year range), and then spend the rest on mild-priced FAs like we always do and our draft class.

I suppose there's a slight possibility if they whiffed on both Williams and Wagner that they'd approach extension talks with Jernigan, but that seems maybe a little early at this point.

[rmcjacket23]

8 hours ago, TheConquerorWorm said:

I hear ya but I disagree that the difference is negligible. Pierce was really good - playing behind (or) next to BWill but what happens when he's the main man? Pippen was a great player playing with Jordan - not so much when by himself. But the bigger issue is this - you're looking at just replacing one player for one player but this is a team and the d-line is a unit. How big of a difference is there between BWill + Pierce vs Pierce + ?? How big of a difference is there between Pierce and the next guy? What happens if Pierce get hurts? We saw what happened with the lack of depth behind Jimmy.

You basically have Pierce at the vet minimum for the next 3 years. If you pay BWill $10 million then you have both guys for a combined $11 million. I'd pay $11 million for TWO really good DT . You don't have to worry about that position again for 3 years even if 1 guy gets hurt.

Plus, you don't really have any of your FA that you need to spend money on next year (Urschel & Jernigan really) and the Ravens will finally have some good cap space even if they re-sign BWill & Wagner.

Mosley comes into the discussion for an extension next year also. He will get his 5th year option picked up this offseason that will lock him in through 2018, but most teams look to extend those players during their option season to avoid them risking hitting the open market.

Wouldn't be surprised at all if Mosley signs an extension before the 2018 season.

[billiejean]

9 hours ago, TheConquerorWorm said:

I hear ya but I disagree that the difference is negligible. Pierce was really good - playing behind (or) next to BWill but what happens when he's the main man? Pippen was a great player playing with Jordan - not so much when by himself. But the bigger issue is this - you're looking at just replacing one player for one player but this is a team and the d-line is a unit. How big of a difference is there between BWill + Pierce vs Pierce + ?? How big of a difference is there between Pierce and the next guy? What happens if Pierce get hurts? We saw what happened with the lack of depth behind Jimmy.

You basically have Pierce at the vet minimum for the next 3 years. If you pay BWill $10 million then you have both guys for a combined $11 million. I'd pay $11 million for TWO really good DT . You don't have to worry about that position again for 3 years even if 1 guy gets hurt.

Plus, you don't really have any of your FA that you need to spend money on next year (Urschel & Jernigan really) and the Ravens will finally have some good cap space even if they re-sign BWill & Wagner.

Yea thats a valid point especially because Carl Davis is an unknown commodity. I wasnt thinking about Urschel or Jernigan, but Mosley.  But I just realized that I wasn't taking his fifth year option into account.  Clearly there are a lot of unknown factors which would influence the following decision, but if you set those aside, would you rather sign BWill or Rick.  Based on the assumption that we could only sign one.

Edited February 4 by billiejean

[757RavensFan]

Pierce is best when BW is on the field with him.  If BW leaves, I don't see Pierce as dominant as he was this season.  They truly compliment each other.  

Also, I think losing Orr plays into retaining BW. Orr had the ability to sniff out plays and beat O Linemen. With him gone the next guy up may need the double teams BW draws to make a play.  

Edited February 4 by 757RavensFan

[jravens1313]

On 2/2/2017 at 1:35 PM, jsarrocohome@yahoo.com said:

I would be shocked because we don't need a TE we already have to many

Did you watch 2016? Darren Waller and Pitta were the starting TE's for the most of the season. Neither are good blockers. Pitta is shifty but slow, and Waller is simply mediocre receiving TE. Why not add talent? Gillmore is always hurt. Maxx Williams disappeared. We need to make sure we have something better than Pitta and Waller in 2017. 

Edited February 5 by jravens1313

[billiejean]

On 2/4/2017 at 10:44 PM, jravens1313 said:

Did you watch 2016? Darren Waller and Pitta were the starting TE's for the most of the season. Neither are good blockers. Pitta is shifty but slow, and Waller is simply mediocre receiving TE. Why not add talent? Gillmore is always hurt. Maxx Williams disappeared. We need to make sure we have something better than Pitta and Waller in 2017. 

Maxx and Crockett were hurt last year and statistically its not likely that they will both be hurt next season.  Watson was hurt before the season started and Boyle was suspended for the first 10 games.  Williams, Crockett and Boyle have proved to be good blockers and although they aren't the fastest guys they use their size to their advantage by boxing out defenders.  Maxx and Boyle have proved to have good hands.  Between both of them they have only had 1 drop in the last two years.  Waller has unusual size and speed for the position and really didn't play many snaps last year.  He did have a drop this year but, if he works on his route running he could be a good joker tight end.  Pitta may be slow but he had 770 plus yards last year and he has a great relationship with Joe.  Being slow does not always mean that a TE will be ineffective.  Pitta runs routes well and does a good job of using his body to box guys out. Its illogical to think that the only TEs that we will be relying on next year are Pitta and Waller.  With 6 TE (Williams, Crockett, Boyle, Waller, Pitta, Watson) on the roster it doesn't make sense to take a TE high in the draft.  Even if we decide to part ways with one of those guys, 5 capable TEs are more than enough.  We have used a lot of picks in the past few years on the TE position and I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't draft one at all.  But if we do end up taking a guy it will be in the later rounds.