[News] Late For Work 2/2: Brandon Williams Will Consider Hometown Discount, But Asks 'Where Is The Love?'

[BR News]

Tight end Crockett Gillmore admits to broken back and two hamstring tears. NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell says league considering less commercials; Steve Bisciotti likes that idea.

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[b93333]

A lot of players are never the same after getting that first big contract... let's hope Williams has the kind of character to keep playing hard. He certainly seems to. As for the TE position we need to gamble on the young guys coming through. Watson is way to expensive to retain while Pitta would cost too much in dead money to cut (this year).

[The Greek]

gilmore and camponaro are one and the same. injury prone. we need a te in case maxx isnt 100%

[potomacpitbulls]

If Brandon Williams does not sign here, I could see him signing with the Texans. Vince Wilfork is possibly retiring. The Texans have no big name unrestricted free agents to sign, and have 18 million in cap, plus another 5 from Wilfork. To me Baltimore and Houston are the logical choices.

Speaking of money, it’s nice to see a Keenan Reynolds investing his NFL/Navy money wisely buying 1,000 shoes.

[steelcityraven]

We are lloaded on the DLine. We have Williams, M Pierce looks to be the next star DL in BMORE. Timmy J... played at a pro bowl level for at least the first half of the year. CDavis showed a lot of potential as a rookie two years ago before missing this season with injuries. We drafted WHenry who also showed some promise. LGuy has been a steal. We have BKafusi coming back.

So... if we lose Brandon... I think we will be okay but I would still hate to lose the guy. Pierce is only going to get better. Timmy keeps showing improvement every season. Kafusi will be an excellent addition next season and with Williams we really can be 2 deep and have the best DL rotation in the NFL.

So... while I think we can be okay if we lose BW... I think we can be great if we can retain him.

But I am also realistic enough to see that we have a great deal of other needs and with the depth we have on the DL... we don't want to break the bank for him...

We want him... he makes the offense we face one dimensional (cant run) so he has a high value -hope we really do make a competitive offer before March and get him locked up!

[fusuymada]

We are lloaded on the DLine. We have Williams, M Pierce looks to be the next star DL in BMORE. Timmy J... played at a pro bowl level for at least the first half of the year. CDavis showed a lot of potential as a rookie two years ago before missing this season with injuries. We drafted WHenry who also showed some promise. LGuy has been a steal. We have BKafusi coming back.

So... if we lose Brandon... I think we will be okay but I would still hate to lose the guy. Pierce is only going to get better. Timmy keeps showing improvement every season. Kafusi will be an excellent addition next season and with Williams we really can be 2 deep and have the best DL rotation in the NFL.

So... while I think we can be okay if we lose BW... I think we can be great if we can retain him.

But I am also realistic enough to see that we have a great deal of other needs and with the depth we have on the DL... we don't want to break the bank for him...

We want him... he makes the offense we face one dimensional (cant run) so he has a high value -hope we really do make a competitive offer before March and get him locked up!

Don't know how much many of you know of BW. My fiancee works with kids with developmental disabilities and every time they ask for someone to visit kids, help with fundraising etc... who has been the Ravens to show for the last few years? Brandon and Crocket Gilmore. His camaraderie in the locker room that has been shared on many tweets shows just how much he is loved. He is willing to take a reasonable discount just to keep his kid in school here. AND he is the best nose tackle in the league, which, of course, is the most important. The days of letting our quality players go because we could find gold in dog doo no longer exists. Next man up is a great strategy if you have the cap space to load your roster with next men, we don't. Accumulating a billion draft picks by letting skilled players walk is now a failed strategy (which Ozzie showed last year by going out on the first days of free agency and snatching up quality free agents.) We will get just one comp pick for KO this year and we really tried everything to keep him but you can't pay a guard left tackle money unless you have a rookie QB making just 4 mil a year. We don't have that.

Anyone who thinks we will just be fine letting quality players walk, getting comp picks and hoping the next man up will be good enough needs to reread the first paragraph. That strategy worked great but is now obsolete and defunct in todays NFL.

[TheConquerorWorm]

If Brandon Williams does not sign here, I could see him signing with the Texans. Vince Wilfork is possibly retiring. The Texans have no big name unrestricted free agents to sign, and have 18 million in cap, plus another 5 from Wilfork. To me Baltimore and Houston are the logical choices.

Speaking of money, it’s nice to see a Keenan Reynolds investing his NFL/Navy money wisely buying 1,000 shoes.

Cleveland has $97 million in cap space and have been looking for a NT since Phil Taylor left. The 49ers also covet a NT and have $80 million in cap space. I'd throw the Skins in there as well - their Run D kept them out of the play-offs and have no interior d-linemen worth mentioning. They have $60 million in cap space.

[metalraven]

Brandon Williams asks: "Where is the love?"

I ask: Where were you during that last quarter of the season?

[jravens1313]

Don't be surprised if we use a high pick on a TE. Right now we have a lot of guys that we can't rely with injuries. None of them have proven that they are top TE's although Pitta once was. This is also a strong class for the position.

[jsarrocohome@yahoo.com]

Don't be surprised if we use a high pick on a TE. Right now we have a lot of guys that we can't rely with injuries. None of them have proven that they are top TE's although Pitta once was. This is also a strong class for the position.

I would be shocked because we don't need a TE we already have to many

[jsarrocohome@yahoo.com]

Brandon Williams asks: "Where is the love?"

I ask: Where were you during that last quarter of the season?

Finally someone who know's football this guy wears down and takes plays off I like him at the right price but he is not worth top dollar we need to spend on pass rush and CB

[jsarrocohome@yahoo.com]

gilmore and camponaro are one and the same. injury prone. we need a te in case maxx isnt 100%

That might be true but I'll take camp anyday this guy can play I don't care if he misses time with injury or not for what he makes he's a steal and that's why Bill Bellichick was trying to sign him last year

[Raven1995]

  50 minutes ago, jravens1313 said:

Don't be surprised if we use a high pick on a TE. Right now we have a lot of guys that we can't rely with injuries. None of them have proven that they are top TE's although Pitta once was. This is also a strong class for the position.

I would be shocked because we don't need a TE we already have to many

I wouldn't. Watson is too old and coming back from an Achilles Injury. Gilmore is great when not Injured but he has had 3 serious injuries in the last 2 years. Maxx Williams is coming back from serious Knee injury and who knows how he will play. Pitta does not get separation or can block. Boyle can Block but gets suspended allot. If the TE from Alabama is their in the 1st round Ozzie will take him.

[RavensDieHard21]

Williams is a tremendous asset on and off he field. He embodies what a Raven is and the benefit of having an outgoing player involved  in so many community activities. 

A discount is evaluating and seeing only a 1-1.5 million a year difference. If Baltimore sees an A player then offer a 5 Yr, 40-42 million contract with at least 20 guaranteed. I think that gets it done. Everyone always believes there are these superstars waiting for their chance, but Pierce and Davis have flashes on their own respective rookie years, but no clear indication that they will be Elite on the line. 

Imagine if Williams stays and those guys do develop though? Getting Henry on the field will help too. 

[billiejean]

  2 hours ago, steelcityraven said:

We are lloaded on the DLine. We have Williams, M Pierce looks to be the next star DL in BMORE. Timmy J... played at a pro bowl level for at least the first half of the year. CDavis showed a lot of potential as a rookie two years ago before missing this season with injuries. We drafted WHenry who also showed some promise. LGuy has been a steal. We have BKafusi coming back.

So... if we lose Brandon... I think we will be okay but I would still hate to lose the guy. Pierce is only going to get better. Timmy keeps showing improvement every season. Kafusi will be an excellent addition next season and with Williams we really can be 2 deep and have the best DL rotation in the NFL.

So... while I think we can be okay if we lose BW... I think we can be great if we can retain him.

But I am also realistic enough to see that we have a great deal of other needs and with the depth we have on the DL... we don't want to break the bank for him...

We want him... he makes the offense we face one dimensional (cant run) so he has a high value -hope we really do make a competitive offer before March and get him locked up!

Don't know how much many of you know of BW. My fiancee works with kids with developmental disabilities and every time they ask for someone to visit kids, help with fundraising etc... who has been the Ravens to show for the last few years? Brandon and Crocket Gilmore. His camaraderie in the locker room that has been shared on many tweets shows just how much he is loved. He is willing to take a reasonable discount just to keep his kid in school here. AND he is the best nose tackle in the league, which, of course, is the most important. The days of letting our quality players go because we could find gold in dog doo no longer exists. Next man up is a great strategy if you have the cap space to load your roster with next men, we don't. Accumulating a billion draft picks by letting skilled players walk is now a failed strategy (which Ozzie showed last year by going out on the first days of free agency and snatching up quality free agents.) We will get just one comp pick for KO this year and we really tried everything to keep him but you can't pay a guard left tackle money unless you have a rookie QB making just 4 mil a year. We don't have that.

Anyone who thinks we will just be fine letting quality players walk, getting comp picks and hoping the next man up will be good enough needs to reread the first paragraph. That strategy worked great but is now obsolete and defunct in todays NFL.

Every team has to do it. I can assure you the if NE could afford to keep Jaime Collins and Chandler Jones they would have but, they could only pick one, and it looks like that guy is Hightower. It happens every year to every team even the Browns who a a ton of cap space every year. Alex Mack, Mitchel Shwartz, TJ Ward, Tashan Gibson, all pro bowlers... all gone

[The Greek]

1 hour ago, fusuymada said:

Don't know how much many of you know of BW. My fiancee works with kids with developmental disabilities and every time they ask for someone to visit kids, help with fundraising etc... who has been the Ravens to show for the last few years? Brandon and Crocket Gilmore. His camaraderie in the locker room that has been shared on many tweets shows just how much he is loved. He is willing to take a reasonable discount just to keep his kid in school here. AND he is the best nose tackle in the league, which, of course, is the most important. The days of letting our quality players go because we could find gold in dog doo no longer exists. Next man up is a great strategy if you have the cap space to load your roster with next men, we don't. Accumulating a billion draft picks by letting skilled players walk is now a failed strategy (which Ozzie showed last year by going out on the first days of free agency and snatching up quality free agents.) We will get just one comp pick for KO this year and we really tried everything to keep him but you can't pay a guard left tackle money unless you have a rookie QB making just 4 mil a year. We don't have that.

Anyone who thinks we will just be fine letting quality players walk, getting comp picks and hoping the next man up will be good enough needs to reread the first paragraph. That strategy worked great but is now obsolete and defunct in todays NFL.

couldnt agree more

[billiejean]

  10 minutes ago, jsarrocohome@yahoo.com said:

  58 minutes ago, jravens1313 said:

Don't be surprised if we use a high pick on a TE. Right now we have a lot of guys that we can't rely with injuries. None of them have proven that they are top TE's although Pitta once was. This is also a strong class for the position.

I would be shocked because we don't need a TE we already have to many

I wouldn't. Watson is too old and coming back from an Achilles Injury. Gilmore is great when not Injured but he has had 3 serious injuries in the last 2 years. Maxx Williams is coming back from serious Knee injury and who knows how he will play. Pitta does not get separation or can block. Boyle can Block but gets suspended allot. If the TE from Alabama is their in the 1st round Ozzie will take him.

I doubt that. We have spent way to many resources on tight ends in recent years. We spent a third on Crockett, a second on Maxx and later picks on Boyle and Waller. Pitta will be here next year because we won't save much if we cut him. And if Pitta gained 736 yards "without getting separation" imagine what some of those young guys can do. Tight Ends use their body to box out and create separation. And for the most part they will have an advantage over the person covering them. If its a DB the TE can use his size to box out and if a LB, or a DE they can use there speed. You don't have to be Eric Ebron to be a good TE in this league. No way are we taking a TE in the first.

[billiejean]

  1 hour ago, metalraven said:

Brandon Williams asks: "Where is the love?"

I ask: Where were you during that last quarter of the season?

Finally someone who know's football this guy wears down and takes plays off I like him at the right price but he is not worth top dollar we need to spend on pass rush and CB

I am just glad that we have a guy on here with 5 years of organized football experience like yourself. Your commentary is always so insightful.

[metalraven]

  2 hours ago, jsarrocohome@yahoo.com said:

  4 hours ago, metalraven said:

Brandon Williams asks: "Where is the love?"

I ask: Where were you during that last quarter of the season?

Finally someone who know's football this guy wears down and takes plays off I like him at the right price but he is not worth top dollar we need to spend on pass rush and CB

I am just glad that we have a guy on here with 5 years of organized football experience like yourself. Your commentary is always so insightful.

He is right about B Williams though.

[jsarrocohome@yahoo.com]

  4 hours ago, jsarrocohome@yahoo.com said:

  5 hours ago, metalraven said:

Brandon Williams asks: "Where is the love?"

I ask: Where were you during that last quarter of the season?

Finally someone who know's football this guy wears down and takes plays off I like him at the right price but he is not worth top dollar we need to spend on pass rush and CB

I am just glad that we have a guy on here with 5 years of organized football experience like yourself. Your commentary is always so insightful.

Im glad to see you know that I played foot ball I was a RB Safety and LB and I was pretty darn good and played the whole game Including Special teams P.S.when I talk football I know what Im talking about

[jsarrocohome@yahoo.com]

  4 hours ago, jsarrocohome@yahoo.com said:

  4 hours ago, jravens1313 said:

Don't be surprised if we use a high pick on a TE. Right now we have a lot of guys that we can't rely with injuries. None of them have proven that they are top TE's although Pitta once was. This is also a strong class for the position.

I would be shocked because we don't need a TE we already have to many

I wouldn't. Watson is too old and coming back from an Achilles Injury. Gilmore is great when not Injured but he has had 3 serious injuries in the last 2 years. Maxx Williams is coming back from serious Knee injury and who knows how he will play. Pitta does not get separation or can block. Boyle can Block but gets suspended allot. If the TE from Alabama is their in the 1st round Ozzie will take him.

They wont take a TE in the first 2 rounds guaranteed

[billiejean]

49 minutes ago, metalraven said:

He is right about B Williams though.

yea I agree with him.  BW is not a three down guy.  He very rarely pushes the pocket in passing situations and even moderately mobile qbs can juke him out.  He isn't terrible at a lot of things but he is terrible at moving laterally, and that is what differentiates him from Ngata in his prime.  This is a passing league.  Id rather spend the money on and OLB or a CB especially with Pierce waiting in the wings.  Is Pierce better than BW at stopping the run now? No but he is not as far behind as people think.  Someone said that Pierce can only do a quarter of was BW can do which is ridiculous.  He is clearly better at getting to the QB and will become much more adept in stopping the run than he was this past year, after having a full NFL season under his belt.  The guy played at a small school, some work on his technique will go a long way.  The guy is clearly motivated as he was one of the strongest players on this team coming out of college.  Bottom line is that he played well last year against the run and the pass, and can only get better.  It would be nice to keep BW but we only have so many contracts like that to give out  We have to be judicious in our spending, and even though KO was the second best guard in the league last year behind MY it was still a good decision.  Giving a guard LT money is nuts no matter how you dice it.

[jsarrocohome@yahoo.com]

  3 hours ago, Raven1995 said:

  4 hours ago, jsarrocohome@yahoo.com said:

  4 hours ago, jravens1313 said:

Don't be surprised if we use a high pick on a TE. Right now we have a lot of guys that we can't rely with injuries. None of them have proven that they are top TE's although Pitta once was. This is also a strong class for the position.

I would be shocked because we don't need a TE we already have to many

I wouldn't. Watson is too old and coming back from an Achilles Injury. Gilmore is great when not Injured but he has had 3 serious injuries in the last 2 years. Maxx Williams is coming back from serious Knee injury and who knows how he will play. Pitta does not get separation or can block. Boyle can Block but gets suspended allot. If the TE from Alabama is their in the 1st round Ozzie will take him.

I doubt that. We have spent way to many resources on tight ends in recent years. We spent a third on Crockett, a second on Maxx and later picks on Boyle and Waller. Pitta will be here next year because we won't save much if we cut him. And if Pitta gained 736 yards "without getting separation" imagine what some of those young guys can do. Tight Ends use their body to box out and create separation. And for the most part they will have an advantage over the person covering them. If its a DB the TE can use his size to box out and if a LB, or a DE they can use there speed. You don't have to be Eric Ebron to be a good TE in this league. No way are we taking a TE in the first.

Ebron couldn't carry pitta's jock

[purpledown]

williams wants to be a Raven, but i think the Ravens will try to low ball him and he will be gone, next man up Michael Pierce, then who follows him after he gets in his prime?

[OzzieBisciotti]

Let's hope Oz doesn't offend Brown with a lowball offer like he did with KO- that apparently pee'd off KO to the point where he didnt want to talk with us- he leaves and goes to the pro bowl- go figure.. every since average joe flacco took half our cap space,, Oz and DaCosta can't figure out how to keep a winning team- that's why we alwasy get these old receivers, hand me down corners, etc.. because we've also drafted so badly and don't have a foundation of younger players who can contribute- i feel badly for Harbs in a way, but he also has input into who he wants on the team as well- it's sad but looking true that we can't win anymore because of the leadership void of R Lewis and E Reed and even Pollard and Haloti- we're just a bunch of sofites now without any kind of defensive indentity- Flacco is nothing without these other leaders who led the team

[EdTheMythicalOne]

Williams wants to get paid but I am not sure he's as much of a force as Damon Harrison is or if he's worth that much money. Unlike some posters I have seen instances, often even, where Brandon collapses the pocket on a pass or even gets a free rush. The issue is it never amounts to much. He usually never finishes. Finding a run-plugging only NT shouldn't be too hard and in my opinion they are a dime a dozen. What you need is a guy that can disrupt plays. Ngata was that in his prime. Ngata was pretty quick for a guy as massive as he was and strong to boot. Williams is just strong. He's not agile or very fast even for his size.

I like Williams and I think he's a good player, I don't think he's an elite player though. He seems like he wants to be paid and that's his right. I just don't think he should be paid in Baltimore. I think we've got the talent behind him to plug in and play and not miss him too much. We've got Pierce, Henry, and Carl Davis all waiting in line.

40-50 million can be spread around to make a lot of areas on the team better.

[RavensDieHard21]

10 hours ago, jsarrocohome@yahoo.com said:

Finally someone who know's football this guy wears down and takes plays off I like him at the right price but he is not worth top dollar we need to spend on pass rush and CB

Spend on pass rush and corners huh? It won't be this year, that's unless there are surprise cap casualties, which is entirely plausible. But as the market looks now, there are going to be very limited FA in both departments and even those towards the top like Johnson from LA and Engram from SD/LA are not elite blue chip guys that you want to give big deals to like some team like the niners or Browns will. 

Is Williams elite? Probably not. Yes he does take some plays off, but guess what? Only a very few special mammoth guys like Ngata in his prime are athletic and conditioned enough to go out and dominate all three downs. NTs are going to get gased, but with a healthy rotation of having Pierce, Davis, Henry, Bronson, Urban and hopefully Guy too will make it easy to keep everyone rested. You take Williams out of the equation I think we go from a top 5 run stopping unit to outside the top 10.

[RavensDieHard21]

6 hours ago, billiejean said:

yea I agree with him.  BW is not a three down guy.  He very rarely pushes the pocket in passing situations and even moderately mobile qbs can juke him out.  He isn't terrible at a lot of things but he is terrible at moving laterally, and that is what differentiates him from Ngata in his prime.  This is a passing league.  Id rather spend the money on and OLB or a CB especially with Pierce waiting in the wings.  Is Pierce better than BW at stopping the run now? No but he is not as far behind as people think.  Someone said that Pierce can only do a quarter of was BW can do which is ridiculous.  He is clearly better at getting to the QB and will become much more adept in stopping the run than he was this past year, after having a full NFL season under his belt.  The guy played at a small school, some work on his technique will go a long way.  The guy is clearly motivated as he was one of the strongest players on this team coming out of college.  Bottom line is that he played well last year against the run and the pass, and can only get better.  It would be nice to keep BW but we only have so many contracts like that to give out  We have to be judicious in our spending, and even though KO was the second best guard in the league last year behind MY it was still a good decision.  Giving a guard LT money is nuts no matter how you dice it.

Well your analysis of Williams to Ngata is spot on, that's why Ngata got $60 million under the cap conditions off 2011 and Williams will likely be in the $45 million range in 2017. Ngata was a generational talent and that is very hard to come by. 

I like pierce a lot and I am rooting for him, but the fans have this tendency to place so much trust and dedication to these young guys that have had limited snaps. We can't always try to justify letting go of player X because player Y made a handful of nice plays their rookie years. 

[RavensDieHard21]

1 hour ago, OzzieBisciotti said:

Let's hope Oz doesn't offend Brown with a lowball offer like he did with KO- that apparently pee'd off KO to the point where he didnt want to talk with us- he leaves and goes to the pro bowl- go figure.. every since average joe flacco took half our cap space,, Oz and DaCosta can't figure out how to keep a winning team- that's why we alwasy get these old receivers, hand me down corners, etc.. because we've also drafted so badly and don't have a foundation of younger players who can contribute- i feel badly for Harbs in a way, but he also has input into who he wants on the team as well- it's sad but looking true that we can't win anymore because of the leadership void of R Lewis and E Reed and even Pollard and Haloti- we're just a bunch of sofites now without any kind of defensive indentity- Flacco is nothing without these other leaders who led the team

There are now three camps of fans. The pragmatic ones, the sky is falling ones and a group that is somewhere in the middle because they understand the situation, but question some moves made by the FO and Harbs. 

First off, KO was being offered the most money in the league to play guard at $8.5 million a year, but I still think it was unclear whether that was to play LT or LG. I think it was LG, but that isn't important. KO got paid top 3 LT money. I think Ozzie could have tried to give a rebuttal offer of 10 a year, but KO seen that green and went running. 

We have been so pampered over the past decade and a Half because Ozzie had consistently either hit home runs on early picks that became legends like Lewis, JO, Reed, Suggs, Ngata, McAllister, RR, etc. But now we have had a few rough drafts where talent hasn't stuck and the fans now act as if we were the Browns. Be patient. One more very good draft like 16' and active FA period could easily make us a +10 win team. 

Flacco's development is discouraging and I don't think he is worth his contract, but the going rate for any half way competent QB is roughly $20 million a year and that was what Flacco got. Ozzie just likes kicking the can down the road though where he makes the deals cheap up front then back loads the deal where he expects restructures/cuts, but all that does is it gives us a boat load of dead cap space. That is why I pray he keeps Mosley's contract and others at consistent hits instead of ending up in cap hell.

[TheConquerorWorm]

  4 hours ago, OzzieBisciotti said:

Let's hope Oz doesn't offend Brown with a lowball offer like he did with KO- that apparently pee'd off KO to the point where he didnt want to talk with us- he leaves and goes to the pro bowl- go figure.. every since average joe flacco took half our cap space,, Oz and DaCosta can't figure out how to keep a winning team- that's why we alwasy get these old receivers, hand me down corners, etc.. because we've also drafted so badly and don't have a foundation of younger players who can contribute- i feel badly for Harbs in a way, but he also has input into who he wants on the team as well- it's sad but looking true that we can't win anymore because of the leadership void of R Lewis and E Reed and even Pollard and Haloti- we're just a bunch of sofites now without any kind of defensive indentity- Flacco is nothing without these other leaders who led the team

There are now three camps of fans. The pragmatic ones, the sky is falling ones and a group that is somewhere in the middle because they understand the situation, but question some moves made by the FO and Harbs. 

First off, KO was being offered the most money in the league to play guard at $8.5 million a year, but I still think it was unclear whether that was to play LT or LG. I think it was LG, but that isn't important. KO got paid top 3 LT money. I think Ozzie could have tried to give a rebuttal offer of 10 a year, but KO seen that green and went running. 

We have been so pampered over the past decade and a Half because Ozzie had consistently either hit home runs on early picks that became legends like Lewis, JO, Reed, Suggs, Ngata, McAllister, RR, etc. But now we have had a few rough drafts where talent hasn't stuck and the fans now act as if we were the Browns. Be patient. One more very good draft like 16' and active FA period could easily make us a +10 win team. 

Flacco's development is discouraging and I don't think he is worth his contract, but the going rate for any half way competent QB is roughly $20 million a year and that was what Flacco got. Ozzie just likes kicking the can down the road though where he makes the deals cheap up front then back loads the deal where he expects restructures/cuts, but all that does is it gives us a boat load of dead cap space. That is why I pray he keeps Mosley's contract and others at consistent hits instead of ending up in cap hell.

Exactly