[News] Pundits Expect Ravens To Make Brandon Williams A 'Very Competitive Offer'

[KidNme]

Williams is a solid player at the very least and his personality goes a long way in the locker room. 34/35 solo tackles this year and I believe he was in the top 5 for DT's in the league last year and he played almost every game since his rookie year so he's durable. I think he deserves a payday within what the top players at that position got paid in 2016. 9.5 Mil a year, 5 year deal, seems reasonable to me with inflation but when you look at our cap space and our needs, nearly 10 million for a DT seems a bit high for the Ravens to be able to pay and still address the many other "top paid" positions we need filled this year. I'm just glad I don't have to make any of those final decisions. It makes my head hurt just pondering what the right thing to do is sometimes. I can't imagine what it is having to actually make a decision and live or die by it.
That's why they make the big bucks and we pay the big bucks I guess! :-)

[mearzunkies]

Williams is a solid player at the very least and his personality goes a long way in the locker room. 34/35 solo tackles this year and I believe he was in the top 5 for DT's in the league last year and he played almost every game since his rookie year so he's durable. I think he deserves a payday within what the top players at that position got paid in 2016. 9.5 Mil a year, 5 year deal, seems reasonable to me with inflation but when you look at our cap space and our needs, nearly 10 million for a DT seems a bit high for the Ravens to be able to pay and still address the many other "top paid" positions we need filled this year. I'm just glad I don't have to make any of those final decisions. It makes my head hurt just pondering what the right thing to do is sometimes. I can't imagine what it is having to actually make a decision and live or die by it.
That's why they make the big bucks and we pay the big bucks I guess! :-)

Word!

[The Greek]

2 hours ago, jetskireid said:

yeah but Williams isn't a 3 down player either.

he is on short yardage situations. on obvious passing downs he comes out

[usmccharles]

4 hours ago, fusuymada said:

Love Williams but Like KO there is going to be one team that is going to have an outrageous amount of money to throw at him and he would be a fool to turn it down and we simply can't afford to compete. With a 120 million dollar QB contract that should be about 75 mil. that would allow us some flexibility. Flacco has all the money that even the worst financial managers needs to maintain 15 generations of Flacco's so it is time he gave back to the team who has so generously given him a big pay day. Is he a Ravens player or is he chasing money. I think this is what we need to determine before this season starts. This is not asking too much I just think its the facts ma'am.

Yet again people trying to blame Joe's contract and have zero understanding of market value principles.

The fact you think someone should give money back in a deal in which both parties were happy to make is quite laughable, not really how the world works.  Do you always go ask your boss for a raise when you have a good day?

Fact is, a team will pay Bwill a lot more than we can afford to.  Nature of the business. 

Edited February 2 by usmccharles

[Ravenous_Ravens]

If BW gets a big offer elsewhere, I'll be sad to see him go but keeping a a manageable roster and salary cap is most important. That being said, not all teams use a NT and have a need. I say this is a 55/45 (Ravens/other) chance of retaining the big man.

[TheConquerorWorm]

5 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

6 hours ago, TheConquerorWorm said:

  6 hours ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

Lol let us just beat these topics to death shall we? 

A serious offer would be 5Yr $38-41 million. 

Ozzie with his frugal ways will say "Hey Brandon, ready for a solid offer? How about 5Yr $31 million." 

There will be no counter and bam he is gone. 

That's not true. Ozzie offered to make KO the highest paid guard in the league (more than Yanda). Instead, the Raiders paid him top 5 LT money.

Plus, it's the guaranteed money that really matters. Flacco got $40 million, Romo got $55 million, Cam Newton(worse ranking than Flacco this year) got $60 million, Andrew Luck got $60-87 million, Russell Wilson got $60 million. NT Snacks got 5yr - 46Million $24 million guaranteed. I think an offer of 5 years $45 million with $25 million guaranteed gets it done unless another team with beaucoup cap space comes in with 5 yr - $50+ million offer.
 

Glad to see you've finally come down from the "Williams is going to get Malik Jackson-type money" warpath you've been on for several months now...

I never said he was going to get that. I said he may want that and the Ravens should let him walk if he does. But it's not out of the realm of possibilities though. Cleveland and the 49ers are desperately looking for a NT and the Browns have $97 million in cap space - the 49ers have $80 million. It's conceivable that they can afford $12-13 million per year if that's what it takes to get the deal done. Nobody thought that KO would get $11+ million per year after Yanda got $7.9 million per. The Ravens will offer $8-9 million per. So, it will take $10-13 million to get him to leave. A desperate team with tons of money leads to some way overpriced contracts (See Osweiler, Brock).

Prices go up. People on here still think Flacco's $20 million per year contract is overpriced. That's now the going rate for the Tannehill, Cousins, etc. Stafford & Ryan will probably be the 1st $150 million QBs (Stafford's already talking at least $25 million per).

Edited February 2 by TheConquerorWorm

[bigcatfrank1]

  5 hours ago, bigcatfrank1 said:

  7 hours ago, bioLarzen said:

A "very comeptitive offer" will be worth sweet little as soon as there's an organization willing to overpay him - and there will be. I'm quite sure Williams will receive offers Ozzie wouldn't match - let alone overbid - even if we had the cap space - which we don't...

First, this year the Ravens actually have the Cap space, unlike the KO deal /year. 8 Mill a year for 5 years 5/40 would probably do it The Ravens can afford that even 42 if they had to. KO went for 12.
The Ravens can also keep Wagner at 5.5 Mil./4 years
3 players go- Doom- Zuttah - Aiken there's your 13.5 mil cap space
I would gladly take that career move exchange .

No scenario where Wagner signs for $5.5M. I wouldn't even listen to an offer that doesn't have a $7M/year in front of it. That's likely the floor in any discussions.

And Aiken is a UFA, so we don't gain any cap space by letting him go. You can cut Doom and Zuttah, and we probably will, though you'll also need to sign a Center via the draft or FA, which will cut into that number.

You also have some more players who will be looking for extensions in the near future, such as Mosley, Jernigan, etc.

YOu could be close, thats still only 1.5 different. However Wagner being a RT and really not a transition type player, he is limited to right side, he worth more to the Ravens than many teams. Aiken is leaving, which frees up salary space (cap) and The Ravens have SS Sr. Salary to work with. Zuttah's salary is re defined by no longer the need to carry Ray Rice money on the offense.
If you want me to figure it out I will..but I doubt they would listen.
Anyway, the point is, the Ravens can afford to keep both Williams and Wagner. If they feel that these 2 guys are the 2 to invest in to make a run. With Yanda, Stanley, Lewis, on one side and Jernigan,Guy, and Pierce on the other. Does keeping them and finding that CENTER make these lines Top. ??? if so its worth doing it

[jravens1313]

Sign us up for another comp pick in 2017, unless the DT market has weakened. I think there are too many teams that can't stop the run with enough cash, while our roster is littered with run stuffers. If Williams generated a better pass rush I would be in favor of paying him.

[jravens1313]

Out of that list I wish we kept McPhee and KO, although McPhee has underproduced his contract in Chicago. 

Edited February 2 by jravens1313

[sizzlingdoom]

Out of that list I wish we kept McPhee and KO.

same here

[sizzlingdoom]

  10 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

  10 hours ago, TheConquerorWorm said:

  11 hours ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

Lol let us just beat these topics to death shall we? 

A serious offer would be 5Yr $38-41 million. 

Ozzie with his frugal ways will say "Hey Brandon, ready for a solid offer? How about 5Yr $31 million." 

There will be no counter and bam he is gone. 

That's not true. Ozzie offered to make KO the highest paid guard in the league (more than Yanda). Instead, the Raiders paid him top 5 LT money.

Plus, it's the guaranteed money that really matters. Flacco got $40 million, Romo got $55 million, Cam Newton(worse ranking than Flacco this year) got $60 million, Andrew Luck got $60-87 million, Russell Wilson got $60 million. NT Snacks got 5yr - 46Million $24 million guaranteed. I think an offer of 5 years $45 million with $25 million guaranteed gets it done unless another team with beaucoup cap space comes in with 5 yr - $50+ million offer.
 

Glad to see you've finally come down from the "Williams is going to get Malik Jackson-type money" warpath you've been on for several months now...

I never said he was going to get that. I said he may want that and the Ravens should let him walk if he does. But it's not out of the realm of possibilities though. Cleveland and the 49ers are desperately looking for a NT and the Browns have $97 million in cap space - the 49ers have $80 million. It's conceivable that they can afford $12-13 million per year if that's what it takes to get the deal done. Nobody thought that KO would get $11+ million per year after Yanda got $7.9 million per. The Ravens will offer $8-9 million per. So, it will take $10-13 million to get him to leave. A desperate team with tons of money leads to some way overpriced contracts (See Osweiler, Brock).

Prices go up. People on here still think Flacco's $20 million per year contract is overpriced. That's now the going rate for the Tannehill, Cousins, etc. Stafford & Ryan will probably be the 1st $150 million QBs (Stafford's already talking at least $25 million per).

"people on here still think....." LOL he averages over 22 a year. That is too much. No way around it

[sizzlingdoom]

  11 hours ago, fusuymada said:

Love Williams but Like KO there is going to be one team that is going to have an outrageous amount of money to throw at him and he would be a fool to turn it down and we simply can't afford to compete. With a 120 million dollar QB contract that should be about 75 mil. that would allow us some flexibility. Flacco has all the money that even the worst financial managers needs to maintain 15 generations of Flacco's so it is time he gave back to the team who has so generously given him a big pay day. Is he a Ravens player or is he chasing money. I think this is what we need to determine before this season starts. This is not asking too much I just think its the facts ma'am.

Yet again people trying to blame Joe's contract and have zero understanding of market value principles.

The fact you think someone should give money back in a deal in which both parties were happy to make is quite laughable, not really how the world works.  Do you always go ask your boss for a raise when you have a good day?

Fact is, a team will pay Bwill a lot more than we can afford to.  Nature of the business. 

Market value? LOL. Compare the contract he got at the time to the contract Arod had at the time then tell me all about your Market Value with the two products compared to each other. hahaha. Somebody probably will pay Bwill a lot more than we can afford to..........because we have many bad contracts on this team. And a ridiculous amount of dead money each year from past bad contracts

[sizzlingdoom]

The entire world except a couple fans on here know that Flacco got overpaid. Just admit guys, you'll feel much better...LOL!!! Steve and Ozzie even know it. We're stuck with it now, just gotta deal with it. Go get the man BMarsh and that will make him and the whole team look better right away. Huge offseason coming up. We're either going back to a top 3 AFC team, or we're headed for another Sshow like last year. Having the same coaching staff is far from an inspirational start, but we'll see. Make or break year

[sizzlingdoom]

Sign us up for another comp pick in 2017, unless the DT market has weakened. I think there are too many teams that can't stop the run with enough cash, while our roster is littered with run stuffers. If Williams generated a better pass rush I would be in favor of paying him.

There are definitely many teams that want Bwill. I agree though, if he was more disruptive against the pass, I would say there's no way we could let him go. Fortunately enough though, we managed to stumble upon Pierce. Who seems to have almost an identical game. He's just not quite as hefty. I hope we can keep Brandon, but if we don't, we better spend the money wisely and on difference makers like S. Gilmore, Berry, Wagner, Marshall, Cyprien. There are a couple O lineman out there too. If we didn't have Pierce, I'd be so terrified for our run D if we lost Bwill

[sizzlingdoom]

We made KO a "very competitive offer"........what a bummer he left. If he's around for another 5-8+ years, he'll go down as one of the best ever. The guy is the definition of nasty. At least he helped us win a SB!

[Maurice0094]

We'll see because there are a bunch of teams who have boatloads of cash and will back the truck up. Shouldn't the Ravens get a 3rd rd comp pick for KO? Shouldn't we also get a comp pick for Upshaw too?

[billiejean]

18 hours ago, fusuymada said:

Love Williams but Like KO there is going to be one team that is going to have an outrageous amount of money to throw at him and he would be a fool to turn it down and we simply can't afford to compete. With a 120 million dollar QB contract that should be about 75 mil. that would allow us some flexibility. Flacco has all the money that even the worst financial managers needs to maintain 15 generations of Flacco's so it is time he gave back to the team who has so generously given him a big pay day. Is he a Ravens player or is he chasing money. I think this is what we need to determine before this season starts. This is not asking too much I just think its the facts ma'am.

I hope people realize that continually posting things about how Flacco should give money back to the team does not increase the chances of that actually happening.  In fact it wont happen.  There aren't any other QBs in the league that have done that.  People here are always pointing out how good of a guy that Brady is for sacrificing a portion of his salary for the good of the team.  Little do they know that, that is not what he did at all.  He is still getting the money that was promised to him when he signed the contract, but they moved it around a little bit to free up cap space.  He was not taking a pay cut. And there is zero chance that Joe is going to take one, and at some point you are going to have to accept that fact.

[rmcjacket23]

11 hours ago, bigcatfrank1 said:

YOu could be close, thats still only 1.5 different. However Wagner being a RT and really not a transition type player, he is limited to right side, he worth more to the Ravens than many teams. Aiken is leaving, which frees up salary space (cap) and The Ravens have SS Sr. Salary to work with. Zuttah's salary is re defined by no longer the need to carry Ray Rice money on the offense.
If you want me to figure it out I will..but I doubt they would listen.
Anyway, the point is, the Ravens can afford to keep both Williams and Wagner. If they feel that these 2 guys are the 2 to invest in to make a run. With Yanda, Stanley, Lewis, on one side and Jernigan,Guy, and Pierce on the other. Does keeping them and finding that CENTER make these lines Top. ??? if so its worth doing it

1. Well, that's $1.5M difference for just one season. On a 4 or 5 year deal, you're talking about $6-7M. It adds up. 

2. Don't understand why he's more valuable to the Ravens than other teams... 32 NFL teams start a RT. My guess is at least half of them would love to have Wagner as their RT. What skills does he provide that are specific to the Ravens and nobody else? Don't understand your logic here. In fact, I could make a case that a handful of teams could see him as LT caliber, and may pay him for that. 

3. Aiken leaving doesn't free up space again. He doesn't count against our current cap number, so we don't save anything. Same with Steve Smith... he's not under contract, so there's no cap "benefit". No idea why you're referencing Ray Rice or what that has to do with anything. He didn't count against the 2016 cap, so he's certainly not counting against the 2017 cap.

4. Could they afford both? Sure. But again, they aren't the only players we are looking to retain or looking to sign. We want to add a complementary receiver. We want to upgrade at Center. We probably want a safety, a linebacker, and some more pass rushers. That's not all coming from the draft. You've got to buy some of those guys, and you just spent most of our cap space.

How do we resign Timmy Jernigan next year? What about Mosley... he's due for a long term extension soon.

All factors to consider.

Bottom line is this... fans should immediately drop any possible expectation that both Wagner and Williams are here next year. Its more likely that neither is here than both being here. My bet is one will be here, and it most likely will be Williams.

Start accepting this now. It makes life easier in the future.

[rmcjacket23]

7 hours ago, sizzlingdoom said:

"people on here still think....." LOL he averages over 22 a year. That is too much. No way around it

Well, that's the problem when you're averaging money that he will likely never make.

And at the end of the day, when you say he's making "too much", you're really saying he makes about $2-3M too much, because there's really not much argument that he's less than a $19-20M QB. Pretty much any metric you can come up with puts him in that range.

So its cute to argue about him being "overpaid" by $2-3M, but not really sure how you think you are going to take $2-3M and turn that into multiple quality players that will make this team a contender.

In short, you really can't.

So what exactly is the argument over?

[rmcjacket23]

7 hours ago, sizzlingdoom said:

Market value? LOL. Compare the contract he got at the time to the contract Arod had at the time then tell me all about your Market Value with the two products compared to each other. hahaha. Somebody probably will pay Bwill a lot more than we can afford to..........because we have many bad contracts on this team. And a ridiculous amount of dead money each year from past bad contracts

It would appear you really haven't done much research about what dead money is or how much dead money some teams carry...

[rmcjacket23]

7 hours ago, sizzlingdoom said:

The entire world except a couple fans on here know that Flacco got overpaid. Just admit guys, you'll feel much better...LOL!!! Steve and Ozzie even know it. We're stuck with it now, just gotta deal with it. Go get the man BMarsh and that will make him and the whole team look better right away. Huge offseason coming up. We're either going back to a top 3 AFC team, or we're headed for another Sshow like last year. Having the same coaching staff is far from an inspirational start, but we'll see. Make or break year

Yup, he's overpaid by about $2M a year.

Now all you gotta do is figure out how that $2M a year makes this football team significantly better.

Good luck with that.

[sizzlingdoom]

  8 hours ago, sizzlingdoom said:

"people on here still think....." LOL he averages over 22 a year. That is too much. No way around it

Well, that's the problem when you're averaging money that he will likely never make.

And at the end of the day, when you say he's making "too much", you're really saying he makes about $2-3M too much, because there's really not much argument that he's less than a $19-20M QB. Pretty much any metric you can come up with puts him in that range.

So its cute to argue about him being "overpaid" by $2-3M, but not really sure how you think you are going to take $2-3M and turn that into multiple quality players that will make this team a contender.

In short, you really can't.

So what exactly is the argument over?

I have to leave and can't respond til later, but think about this. 2-3 mil a year you say?? That was the difference between us keeping our All Pro talent or not last year-KO... That was easily the difference between us making the playoffs or not this year

[sizzlingdoom]

  7 hours ago, sizzlingdoom said:

The entire world except a couple fans on here know that Flacco got overpaid. Just admit guys, you'll feel much better...LOL!!! Steve and Ozzie even know it. We're stuck with it now, just gotta deal with it. Go get the man BMarsh and that will make him and the whole team look better right away. Huge offseason coming up. We're either going back to a top 3 AFC team, or we're headed for another Sshow like last year. Having the same coaching staff is far from an inspirational start, but we'll see. Make or break year

Yup, he's overpaid by about $2M a year.

Now all you gotta do is figure out how that $2M a year makes this football team significantly better.

Good luck with that.

Losing our All Pro last year for one!

[sizzlingdoom]

  7 hours ago, sizzlingdoom said:

Market value? LOL. Compare the contract he got at the time to the contract Arod had at the time then tell me all about your Market Value with the two products compared to each other. hahaha. Somebody probably will pay Bwill a lot more than we can afford to..........because we have many bad contracts on this team. And a ridiculous amount of dead money each year from past bad contracts

It would appear you really haven't done much research about what dead money is or how much dead money some teams carry...

it would appear you haven't. And the 6 year part for Joe's contract was a problem as well. Yall that defend his contract truly crack me up

[sizzlingdoom]

  8 hours ago, sizzlingdoom said:

"people on here still think....." LOL he averages over 22 a year. That is too much. No way around it

Well, that's the problem when you're averaging money that he will likely never make.

And at the end of the day, when you say he's making "too much", you're really saying he makes about $2-3M too much, because there's really not much argument that he's less than a $19-20M QB. Pretty much any metric you can come up with puts him in that range.

So its cute to argue about him being "overpaid" by $2-3M, but not really sure how you think you are going to take $2-3M and turn that into multiple quality players that will make this team a contender.

In short, you really can't.

So what exactly is the argument over?

It was also "cute" losing KO to a couple extra mil a year eh? Weenies. Just admit his contract blows

[bioLarzen]

We can only hope Ozzie won't do something he never seemed to be willing to do - and offer Williams the kind of money hes gonna be offered by some other organizations with a huge free cap portion to spend. It would esseintially devastate our cap situation and cripple us for the coming years. I'm more than sure some teams will offer him the kind of salary he simply isn't worth.

I can understand why we play this will-we-retain-a-free-agent-everyone-knows-we-cannot game before each free agency period - but stil: nothing indicates it's gonna be any different with Williams than it was with Grubbs, Ellerbe, Art Brown, Kruger, McPhee, Torrey Smith and Osemele.

 

The only way I think it's possible to keep him is if he is willing to accept an offer he knows is less than what he would be offered elswhere. In NFL lingo that's called the "hometown discount".

Edited February 2 by bioLarzen

[nj_ravens]

  1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

  9 hours ago, sizzlingdoom said:

"people on here still think....." LOL he averages over 22 a year. That is too much. No way around it

Well, that's the problem when you're averaging money that he will likely never make.

And at the end of the day, when you say he's making "too much", you're really saying he makes about $2-3M too much, because there's really not much argument that he's less than a $19-20M QB. Pretty much any metric you can come up with puts him in that range.

So its cute to argue about him being "overpaid" by $2-3M, but not really sure how you think you are going to take $2-3M and turn that into multiple quality players that will make this team a contender.

In short, you really can't.

So what exactly is the argument over?

It was also "cute" losing KO to a couple extra mil a year eh? Weenies. Just admit his contract blows

They were never going to pay him that money, regardless of Flacco. They gave him top 10 tackle money to play guard, and didn't even kick him out to tackle when Penn went down.

[rmcjacket23]

1 hour ago, sizzlingdoom said:

It was also "cute" losing KO to a couple extra mil a year eh? Weenies. Just admit his contract blows

1. You have no idea what we offered KO. We know KO signed for $12M a year. If we offered $7-8M (which most reports said we did), which would have made him among the highest paid guards in the league, you're still quite short. That would make him a highly paid guard, or in our case, an average paid LT, which is what we were resigning him for.

2. You're missing yet another key aspect... there's no scenario where KO and Stanley are both here. Why you ask? Because we made KO an offer to play LT, not LG. 

So unless you plan on having KO play LT, LG and Center (our weakest Oline position), you're still not fielding a very good Oline. 

3. If any person realistically thinks that losing KO was the difference between being a contender or not, you clearly didn't watch this football team play this year. You need to go back to the film if so.

[rmcjacket23]

1 hour ago, sizzlingdoom said:

it would appear you haven't. And the 6 year part for Joe's contract was a problem as well. Yall that defend his contract truly crack me up

LOL the number of years on a contract are completely irrelevant. Its all written in pencil.

Remember when everybody threw a hissy fit the first time he signed a "six year deal", and literally everybody in the industry told you it was a 3 year deal the way it was restructured, and then sure enough, a new deal is struck after year 3?

Wake up. Six year deals turn into 2-3 year deals on an annual basis. Torrey Smith signed a 5 year deal with the 49ers in 2015. Its a coin flip right now whether he's back in SF for 2017, and that's after only two years. 

You need to start doing some research on how NFL contracts actually work, and fast. You're completely ignorant on the subject matter at this time.

[usmccharles]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

You need to start doing some research on how NFL contracts actually work, and fast. You're completely ignorant on the subject matter at this time.

But then he can't make up random arguments because he would actually be informed, we can't be having that.